Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[Erasor.]

Whats the best option after you cc marth's get up attack? any advice?

 

[Wenbobular]

Dashgrab if you don't fall over

 

[crush]

down tilt knee if hes at like 50+%
i think if you try and dash grab he can buffer spot dodge

 

[Wenbobular]

If he makes a habit out of spot dodging you just delay a shorthop knee and it becomes a 50/50 of get a grab and combo him or stomp and get a free knee haha

Iono, Falcon's pretty fast is all I can say <_<
Although every time I get hit by a getup attack I always fall over ... probably not CCing it properly

 

[Erasor.]

Haven't played in a while but ok I'll take your advice. thanks.

 

[Mokumo]

knee on shield to grab WORKS!

 

[0Room]

Dashgrab if you don't fall over

You do, at all percents
Get up attacks have set knockback

It makes me so angry

At least on the one where he swings his sword downwards
I dunno about the one where he does the get up attack that looks like an up tilt

A better option that players in NC keep doing to me is fullhop->dair/bair/nair/fair/**** you bro

It's really good because even if they don't take the bait, you can DJ to bide your time or to get out of the situation.

I've been trying to add it into my game.

0room: your post includes false information :/

Which one
The one where I went through a thread and collected a bunch of stuff
Or something else

TALK TO ME BOY

 

[Strong Badam]

collected a bunch of stuff.

the most glaring one is bowser having the most throws when contrarily DK has 1 or 2 more

 

[0Room]

Who posted it, Gimpyfish?
I basically just went through the "common knowledge" thread and picked up a bunch of interesting stuff


Also, JPEG, as far as using more RBs
I feel like that, along with what Winston said, that it was a very specific person-based critique. That Etwist in particular should recognize the moments of when to use them and use them, based on PP's experience playing him.

I agree with you, spamming RB is bad
You just have to recognize every little thing I guess.

 

[Roneblaster]

I dont look at that common knowledge thread because its a trolls paradise in there. And some1 doesnt even need to be a troll, they could just be bad and say something that isnt true.

 

[Winston]

You do, at all percents
Get up attacks have set knockback

It makes me so angry

At least on the one where he swings his sword downwards
I dunno about the one where he does the get up attack that looks like an up tilt

1). getup attacks don't have set knockback, just really really small knockback growth.
2). You can definitely cc getup attacks. In fact, you can cc them until really high percents because of 1. I use it as Falco all the time, and Falcon is much heavier than Falco.
3). Dash grab will hit before they're out of lag if you do it right.

 

[0Room]

Well I never had any luck with that for me
Like
For serious

I was at like 25%

And it just did not work
And I'm not sure why
Btw this is Marth only that I'm talking about getting knocked down by

But I'm pretty sure I saw set knockback somewhere, I guess it was wrong though

----------
Also
I had this really interesting idea and I wanted to know what you guys thought about it

As you know going through all of those links that I've already indexed, I've gotten kind of familiar with some concepts, most notably Sheik.

And so I was thinking about the quote somewhere that said "If you CC her ftilt, you can run in and get a grab off."
Well, I was also thinking about a link someone posted of Darkrain's weird DI where he got ftilted and Di'd away like immediately.
So I got to thinking, what would happen if you hold down on the cstick while running around?

It wouldn't get in the way of DD, it ASDIs for your CC, and it buffers inputs [which could be horrendously bad] but basically meaning, if you get the grab, you throw asap.
So I've been playing around with it, and it works.

As in, it's possible, not that it's necessarily viable. But it's a really interesting idea and I wanna see what you guys think about it.

 

[BigD!!!]

not a terrible idea, but you cant jc the grab then right? unless you jc with up

 

[Roneblaster]

Throwing isnt the problem, its everything else. Nah'mean?

 

[BigD!!!]

hahaha nice edit

 

[Roneblaster]

Big Dizzle, knows all sees all.

 

[BigD!!!]

its cause of these autoupdating threads these days

 

[Wenbobular]

I mean, if your plan is to just dash dance and never do aerials, then by all means run around with your Cstick pushed down ... <_<

It'd be a cool habit to hold Cstick as you grab though, that's an interesting thought (I didn't know it buffered Dthrow, but my main problem is running out of the throw so this is less relevant but still interesting)

 

[Roneblaster]

Ya, this fancy new technology in swf is neat.

 

[0Room]

not a terrible idea, but you cant jc the grab then right? unless you jc with up

You can claw it
And yes you can roll the control stick like Magus does, but that's difficult for me lol

Throwing isnt the problem, its everything else. Nah'mean?

Yes I know whatcha mean, but the point is that this could totally take them by surprise and throw them LONG BEFORE they have a chance to DI, giving you a very easy knee.
Theoretically of course.

I mean, if your plan is to just dash dance and never do aerials, then by all means run around with your Cstick pushed down ... <_<

It'd be a cool habit to hold Cstick as you grab though, that's an interesting thought (I didn't know it buffered Dthrow, but my main problem is running out of the throw so this is less relevant but still interesting)

Well of course this isn't a "do only this" gameplan
It's just a whole
"I want to bait your ftilt and **** you accordingly" thing.

It doesn't buffer per se, it just goes as fast as possible. What are you struggling with as far as dashing out?

 

[Roneblaster]

Does dthrow knee work vs sheik ever though?

 

[0Room]

Yes, with no di/inwards DI

Out and down never works ever
At least as far as I know.

Lemme go get the link I'm thinking of

Magus on Marth Di 6/20/10

edit nvm same link lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

the cstick down thing could be neat, but i think its unnecessary. If you really wanted to do it, just learn to claw so you can jump normally. I don't think its necessary because you can generally CC and DI on reaction or option select it. Sheik can't generally attack out of the blue while you're dash dancing.

 

[0Room]

Oh I don't think it's necessary at all lol
It was just an interesting idea I had and I wanted to see what you guys would think about it.

I'm kinda bad about CC on reaction, but I'm getting better at it.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Generally speaking I always CC/DI during the lag of my moves, as should everyone

 

[0Room]

Meaning
Let's say you do a Nair

You CC while FF of course, but you're saying you continue to CC afterwards?

 

[JPOBS]

yes. if it looks like you might get hit, start to asdi down during l-cancel lag.

pretty much everyone does it. it's freaking gay.

 

[crush]

i dont find it homosexual at all

 

[Wenbobular]

I just don't have the timing down to dash as soon as I'm out of throw lag is all...just something to work on when I'm playing by myself

 

[0Room]

Yeah I don't really have a problem with that
I just know the timing

I did a while ago, especially on uthrow->knee
But I just messed with it a bit

 

[Winston]

Well I never had any luck with that for me
Like
For serious

I was at like 25%

And it just did not work
And I'm not sure why
Btw this is Marth only that I'm talking about getting knocked down by

But I'm pretty sure I saw set knockback somewhere, I guess it was wrong though

You must have started doing some other action. It'll always knock down ASDI down.

do you have two controllers and a gamecube? try it out yourself, with just crouching, not doing any other sort of action

 

[0Room]

I wasn't doing anything
Let me try it

hmm you're right
nevermind everything I said is wrong

But I swear sometimes I get knocked down at ridiculously low percents
It must be because I pressed a button on accident like you said

 

[JPOBS]

iirc the lag after a downthrow is weight dependent based on character. lag after upthrow is constant regardless of char.

someone call me out if im being dumb.

 

[0Room]

Um the only thing that I have is a post from Magus talking about the percents where uthrow does things
like the percents that do the same amount of knockback

so idfk lol

edit;
this is what I'm talking about
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8894919&postcount=5733

Here's another thing about uthrow->knee if you were interested
explanation for combo notation

post about

 

[JPOBS]

ya I'm talking about Falcon's lag only. whether you can upthrow->knee someone successfully is a combination of how knockback, and hitstun and all that crap affect the characte rbeing thrown, but the throw itself always has the same effect on falcon.

whereas Downthrow actually affects falcon differently depending on which character you are throwing. You can move faster after throwing fox than u can after throwing bowser.

so real world application of this is (i think) you can learn a one size fits all timing for moving after Upthrow.

 

[0Room]

Oh hmm see I thought you were taking that in the other direction
But that's an interesting idea, I'll have to look into it
I personally don't believe in it at this moment but anything is possible in this game lol

 

[Deleted member]

c-stick down discussion is weird and I crouch cancel with control stick

i think I know what you're talking about though but most of the people that crouch cancel through c-stick do it on accident like (bad) peach mains

 

[0Room]

Well it's the fact that Cstick will ASDI for you regardless of what you're doing
So that means that you can DD and have a CC basically buffered, so if you're hit you'll CC and if you're not you can keep running around

That's all there really is to it.

 

[Deleted member]

sounds trivial if you are good at crouch cancelling but good I GUESS

 

[0Room]

I mean again
It was just an idea, and I wanted to see what you guys thought about it

The best thing I can see out of it imo is the instant throws out of grabs
It leaves them like 0 time to DI