• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

0Room

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
I mean while I personally don't do any of that stuff
I get the underlying message of "live life while you can"

Anyway, where do you live Scar? You're up north right?
 
Brookman

Brookman

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
6,202
Location
pikachu
Do think it's possible to learn [character vs. character] to the point that the [player vs. player] is less significant??
 
0Room

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
No. Unless you're Fox and he's Kirby.

But I think it's definitely possible to learn character vs character to where player vs player is the only thing that matters.
 
B

BigD!!!

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
1,833
i would say that back in his day, jiano learned falcon vs marth to the point that it didnt matter who it was, and i didnt see any exception until after he all but stopped playing

i'd say its a rarity though, husband vs peach back in the day would be another example, not many more come to mind
 
Walt

Walt

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
894
Location
Concord, CA
0Room said:
I mean while I personally don't do any of that stuff
I get the underlying message of "live life while you can"

Anyway, where do you live Scar? You're up north right?
Click to expand...
Scar lives in Norcal. Got 3rd today at ITT5. He was messing dudes up.

He also likes to yell WALT as I found out today.
 
B

BigD!!!

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
1,833
also, on the subject of knee to grab on shields

unless im playing a character with a threatening spot dodge, if i knee the back of a shield with a strong hit, i usually go for a grab. at worst, they roll and the situation resets, but most people will just hold it

on the front of the shield, i feel too threatened, but on the back, what can they do really
 
Scar

Scar

#HarveyDent
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
6,066
Location
Sunnyvale, CA
@Mow good advice
@Johnny you are the best in the world

@Brookman the better you know a matchup the less the player vs player matters, I think your question speaks to the extent to which player vs player matters in the end.

Actually with the general case "Do think it's possible to learn [character X vs. characterY] to the point that the [player A vs. player B] is less significant??"

IF Player A Skill > Player B skill then the more player A learns X vs Y the less significant Player A vs Player B becomes, because deviations on the player vs player axis affect the outcome less.

IF Player A Skill < Player B skill then the more player A learns X vs Y the more significant Player A vs Player B becomes, because deviations on the player vs player axis affect the outcome more.

But anyways yeah I think your question is to what extent can you make player vs player not matter, to which the answer is IMO and has always been in theory in a perfectly solved game with a perfectly playing agent you can make it not matter at all (0%) and in practice it will always matter due to human limitations.
 
Brookman

Brookman

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
6,202
Location
pikachu
In practice, shffl knee on shield is extremely free grab you just have to know your mix ups.

i.e. shffl knee to stomp, shffl knee to charge smash shffl knee to roll :troll: shffl knee to gentleman, shffl knee to up air, shffl knee to back air, shffl knee to taunt. . . .

I mean, I think you get it.


Scar bro, tech chase with falcon punch; win games
 
Brookman

Brookman

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
6,202
Location
pikachu
side step becomes a common response after you've started grabbing the person through the knee, so you can really just flex your **** on them.
 
0Room

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
tbh all this talk about knee on shield has made me begin thinking of Falcon as more of a setup character.

A "setup character" is a term that's from SF and other 2D fighters. It refers to a character who excels on forcing his opponent into [usually] a set of 50/50 mix ups, and controls the match that way, usually trying to force them to make a certain choice. I kind of feel like I should be playing CF that way.

I mean let's look at the way he plays.
Like we said with the knee on shield, the mixup is either spotdodge or not.
Unless it's Falco, DDing forces them to mostly approach or wait it out.
Throws turn into tech/no tech, then tech in place, towards, or away.

While this is obviously an oversimplification, and you can't really make this game into a setup game anyway because of how complicated it is, I think this is a good start to really understanding how to keep things moving in this game.
 
mers

mers

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
997
Location
Oberlin College, Oberlin, OH
I might just be ****-riding, but I think that's a very Mango way to look at the game. He seems to excel at identifying the options in any given situation, and then either covering them or forcing his opponent's choice.
 
0Room

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
I feel like a lot of pros do that. Especially Darkrain.

And it's not cockriding unless you go
"OMG MANGO'S THE BEST YOU GUYS. BEST. NO ONE IS EVEN CLOSE. BECAUSE MANGO IS THE BEST GUYS. DID I TELL YOU HE'S THE BEST?!"
 
Juggleguy

Juggleguy

Smash Grimer
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,354
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
0Room, I'm like 5 months late with this, but I saw one of your video critiques of j00t, and I must inform you that dthrow-knee does not work on Samus. Just saying.
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
I really like the movement but I'm pretty sure there are a few times you could just be killing them instead of trying to moonwalk

But I guess that's like lame <_<

Also there were a couple times vs Faab where I was super hoping you'd get the runoff knee but it never happened :(
 
0Room

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
Yes I know, I figured that out myself Juggleguy.
I figured it did, but after trying it myself I realized it didn't work.

However
The point still stands that J00t needed to gain control of that match RIGHT THEN, and I still think the best way to do that was to grab.
 
Palpi

Palpi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
5,714
Location
Yardley, Pennsylvania
I will watch it more in depth later, but the first reverse uair I saw, I laughed then I started watching winners finals as ganon.

I kind of like erayz style
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Palpi said:
I will watch it more in depth later, but the first reverse uair I saw, I laughed then I started watching winners finals as ganon.

I kind of like erayz style
Click to expand...
Ya he's getting better and better pretty quickly now.. He must really want to improve. =) He's pretty technical, now I'm trying to fix his bad habits and stuff you know? Well not only me, he plays vs Bam and Vwins sometimes too. He still gets ***** but his improvement def showed this tournament.
 
J

Jeapie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
415
Location
Groningen, Holland
Pretty solid falcon you got there Kage.
I saw that perfect executed utrow fsmash.
tight tech chases.
Survival DI was good as dorf.
Best thing I liked about the vid were your shield grabs. Seriously it looks like maybe you could even shield grab Remen with that o_0. Although That is impossible sadly..
No wait. The best thing was that you won, i smiled =) more kage falcon vids please!

Thanks FabulousGeorge. Positive or negative comments are always welcome!

Wenbobularm i know i know. As you said. Not fooling around is no fun so apparently you know how i like to play this game, thanks for the comment

DuckPimp: wut haha. Show me a video of you playing sometime ^^

next saturday = a big interational tournament in The Netherlands. I hope i will be able to record and upload some matches since some of you DO watch those =)

Jeapie
 
Juggleguy

Juggleguy

Smash Grimer
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,354
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
I've been working on shield drops lately and I can get them probably ~70% of the time in friendlies, but that goes down to under 50% in tourney :[
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Jeapie said:
Pretty solid falcon you got there Kage.
I saw that perfect executed utrow fsmash.
tight tech chases.
Survival DI was good as dorf.
Best thing I liked about the vid were your shield grabs. Seriously it looks like maybe you could even shield grab Remen with that o_0. Although That is impossible sadly..
No wait. The best thing was that you won, i smiled =) more kage falcon vids please!

Thanks FabulousGeorge. Positive or negative comments are always welcome!

Wenbobularm i know i know. As you said. Not fooling around is no fun so apparently you know how i like to play this game, thanks for the comment

DuckPimp: wut haha. Show me a video of you playing sometime ^^

next saturday = a big interational tournament in The Netherlands. I hope i will be able to record and upload some matches since some of you DO watch those =)

Jeapie
Click to expand...
Ya I might use Falcon at Genesis 2, maybe.. but I'm not sure yet.. if I would use Falcon it would be vs Falco or dittos.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom