Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[Wenbobular]

I feel you gotta be real careful jumping out of your shield against ganon. lots of times i try to jump out of my shield and i just die

You so rarely need to shield vs Ganon in the first place though ... what exactly does Ganon do to pressure you into shield <_<

 

[Divinokage]

Grounded attacks and Fair. A good Ganon will fight Falcon point blank, that is to eliminate the gayness of DD.. there's a lot of things Ganon can do to shutdown Falcon. The matchup on Ganon side is reaction based a lot I find. Because I know Falcon will try to look for a laggy move from Ganon to get a grab, or force Ganon to shield to also get a grab.. I also know grabs sucks for Ganon so ill even counter-attack grabs with dair for example.

 

[0Room]

This is a nice summary
I read about your idea for a guide discussing specific matchups. It looks like you are well on your way :D
If you make the guide you should start with a summary like this, then get into detail.
I think it would really benefit new players (like me ) from a general overview of the matchup, then specifics.
Good Job! I hope you make it into the BR since I actually read ur post and I thought it was well put together.

One question though
what's the difference between Ganon's and Falcons F-Tilt?
Ganons is stronger obviously, more range I think? Falcons is faster though? Anything else I'm missing?

Yes ganon's Ftilt is much stronger, with much more range. With his waveland distance factored in, that'll easily be the bottom 3/4ths of Battlefield. If you wan I can post some of the stuff Kage PMed me about, when we were talking about Falcon/Ganon

As far as wishing me luck on BR, thanks a lot! I hope I get in, but it's not a big deal if I don't. I'll just use it as more motivation to get better

 

[Deleted member]

you seriously don't need to dash dance against ganon

i play completely pressure based and depending on how good ganon is is how much free reign you get

it comes down to how defensive/gay ganon is and if your mechanics are fine then all you gotta do is adjust spacing, ganon really can't do much when you are in his face n-airing, crouch cancel won't work because falcon has very long legs if you n-air correctly

platform shenanigans suck unless you never experienced them, it is also invariably a free hit for falcon if they try to hit me with platform waveland gimmicks

you can also literally 0 to death regrab if ganon never DI's to edge-cancel get on a plat

so much easier to tech chase as falcon as ganon, only prodigal ganons i've played like linguini were freaking good at tech chasing

so

if you lose to ganon

you either don't know the matchup

or the ganon players better

 

[Brookman]

Hey s2j, do you think you could give me a rundown of your falcon vs. marth concepts??

 

[Deleted member]

whoevers better wins

 

[Wenbobular]

Haha <_<

I think the basic rundown is both characters are very good at stuffing approaches and neither has a terribly great approach in this matchup
I think neutral game for both parties revolves around incrementally trying to push them to a corner and eventually someone has to do something or risk giving up ground
You can call Nairs with side-b but use it sparingly

Comboing Marth is pretty straightforward

Edgeguarding Marth is pretty easy
Lightshield if he has to up-b -> reverse knee or Dair -> reverse knee
Otherwise ledgehop stall - doing the backward jump is pretty good for not getting hit by the up-b sweetspot, dropping lower and doing the regular jump is good for if they do it early and try to float down as long as you don't get it
If he side-b's too close / enters your Bair -> regrab ledge range you get a free invincible Bair - really good for when he can get back using only his jump

Always DI away unless you're getting Fsmashed but I guess that applies to everyone so hopefully you already know that haha
You can jump out of most Uthrow combos I think ... it's kinda wonky (DI Utilts with the trajectory of the sword to get out)

If you have the option to recover super high DI his Fsmash / whatever he does and you should live 'til 150+ unless he manages to tipper yo
When you're forced to recovery lower it should be an easy edgeguard for Marth

 

[Divinokage]

you either don't know the matchup

or the ganon players better

What the hell.. I'll make sure to change your mind really quickly! If you saw me vs Hax, it was basically even. There's lots of **** you can do to prevent Falcon stuff. And if you say he doesn't know the matchup.. I swear.. I'll do something mean.

 

[ryankam10]

What the hell.. I'll make sure to change your mind really quickly! If you saw me vs Hax, it was basically even. There's lots of **** you can do to prevent Falcon stuff. And if you say he doesn't know the matchup.. I swear.. I'll do something mean.

Lol haha. when I'm up against the side of the stage as falcon vs ganon, I'm like fk what do i do, he keeps jabbing me with his one frame jab, if I jump up i'm gunna get uaired lol

although tbh i dont actually have too much trouble beating ganon, I just certain situations (such as when he does anything into his jab) annyoing lol

 

[ETWIST51294]

What the hell.. I'll make sure to change your mind really quickly! If you saw me vs Hax, it was basically even. There's lots of **** you can do to prevent Falcon stuff. And if you say he doesn't know the matchup.. I swear.. I'll do something mean.

It was even cuz you guys were high as ****.

 

[Divinokage]

It was even cuz you guys were high as ****.

LOL, I'll show you high!

 

[0Room]

whoevers better wins

CF vs Marth, this is very very true. This is an absolutely even match up if there ever was on, focusing on grabs and edgeguards.
If someone gets offstage they're dead.

Haha <_<

I think the basic rundown is both characters are very good at stuffing approaches and neither has a terribly great approach in this matchup
I think neutral game for both parties revolves around incrementally trying to push them to a corner and eventually someone has to do something or risk giving up ground
You can call Nairs with side-b but use it sparingly

Comboing Marth is pretty straightforward

Edgeguarding Marth is pretty easy
Lightshield if he has to up-b -> reverse knee or Dair -> reverse knee
Otherwise ledgehop stall - doing the backward jump is pretty good for not getting hit by the up-b sweetspot, dropping lower and doing the regular jump is good for if they do it early and try to float down as long as you don't get it
If he side-b's too close / enters your Bair -> regrab ledge range you get a free invincible Bair - really good for when he can get back using only his jump

Always DI away unless you're getting Fsmashed but I guess that applies to everyone so hopefully you already know that haha
You can jump out of most Uthrow combos I think ... it's kinda wonky (DI Utilts with the trajectory of the sword to get out)

If you have the option to recover super high DI his Fsmash / whatever he does and you should live 'til 150+ unless he manages to tipper yo
When you're forced to recovery lower it should be an easy edgeguard for Marth

More or less this. The edgeguarding really becomes a guessing game of "is he going to sweet spot the ledge or not?"
Once I get the Marth/Falcon MU, I think that I'll spend a lot of time on that, since it's so crucial to the MU.

I feel like we should really get started on that MU thread again. It's kind of stagnant atm.
Rather than focus on MUs everyone's really having problems with, [spacies] we should knock out the ones we know first [Marth, Ganon, etc]
Just my opinion

Lol haha. when I'm up against the side of the stage as falcon vs ganon, I'm like fk what do i do, he keeps jabbing me with his one frame jab, if I jump up i'm gunna get uaired lol

although tbh i dont actually have too much trouble beating ganon, I just certain situations (such as when he does anything into his jab) annyoing lol

It's actually 3 frames. I know that's a minuscule difference but every frame counts. I think the best option there is just to DD and wait for him to do something dumb like Fair
Just make sure to watch out for his ftilt, the range difference between his jab and ftilt are quite substantial

 

[CaptainNanD0]

yo guys falcon vs marth

falcon>marth

 

[Juggleguy]

Falcon's grab followups on Marth > Marth's grab followups on Falcon

 

[Deleted member]

What the hell.. I'll make sure to change your mind really quickly! If you saw me vs Hax, it was basically even. There's lots of **** you can do to prevent Falcon stuff. And if you say he doesn't know the matchup.. I swear.. I'll do something mean.

ur the only ganon that can possibly change my mind lol

i've played the relevant ones, rockcrock, linguini...

dunno lol guess we'll wait till genesis 2

 

[0Room]

Lol guys
As much as I agree from a player standpoint

From a character standpoint Marth can and will **** you easily.
Once you're offstage it's a lot easier to edgeguard you than it is for you to edgeguard him.

 

[Juggleguy]

Sorry Kage, gonna have to bet on my boy s2j on this one

 

[CaptainNanD0]

i got a MM with Kage at zenith, once i take down the warrior ill show you guys how just grabbing ganon obliterates him

 

[Brookman]

I have faith in the warrior, also, knowing he will be attending Zenith encourages me to attend

 

[BigD!!!]

i havent played linguini, but ive played rockcrock and kage, and with as much respect as possible for rockcrock, theres a big difference between rockcrocks anti falcon game and kage's

kage was significantly harder, i just remember spacing a nair and he full jump daired my toe and being like wow come on

 

[Divinokage]

i havent played linguini, but ive played rockcrock and kage, and with as much respect as possible for rockcrock, theres a big difference between rockcrocks anti falcon game and kage's

kage was significantly harder, i just remember spacing a nair and he full jump daired my toe and being like wow come on

LOL, I forgot about that situation.. I guess it's pretty good.

Oh ya I'm def going to Zenith, can't wait to see you all there.

 

[Sraigux]

So when I use an aerial (say captain falcon's nair) and am unable to follow up quickly enough and they hit the ground, what can I use to follow up if they don't tech?

 

[ETWIST51294]

knee

duh

 

[Trikrome]

I play linguini and rockrock on a constant basis and i have to say that dash dancing to wait for a whiff aerial (which will happen cuz ganons create walls. just make sure not to get baited) and grab to **** is the most effective. on rockrock spacing nairs work but on linguini they def dont because he frame perfect u-air oos which beats nair. or he can do wut bigD said and fullhop dair to beat falcons nair. I agree with some things that S2J says but idk.... i'm from Florida, ganon is literally my fav matchup lol.


Grab ***** all ganons. Nairs **** mediocre ganons. Down throw to regrab or tech chase and up throw to nair, uair, or knee at certain percentages.
Oh yea i forgot to say approaching with really fast uairs also **** ganons. its better than nairing imo.

 

[Wenbobular]

I'm so angry my set vs Redd wasn't recorded T_T
I had some janky rising Uair -> falling Bair -> up-b combo or something ... sigh
I have me getting whooped by Thumbs caught on camera though ... have to rethink my Falcon dittoing

 

[0Room]

Falcon Dittos are easily my worst MU :/
Falcon just does weird things that I don't react well too

On the plus side I attended a tournament and took first place :]
ASU has a lot of hidden talent, and I'm glad to have seen that! We apparently have a closet Jiggs [need practice on] and Peach [one of my favorite MUs], as well as a Spacies player [whom, despite being actually fairly good, I cleaned out in 1:13, go figure] This is good stuff.

Oh
btdubs
Go Kage

But also

Go Falcon

 

[Divinokage]

Well I did a best of 101 vs SSF that lives around here, simply another guy that got 51-2 by me again and i recorded it lol. I did go Falcon more this time... perhaps there could be some interesting stuff for you guys to use in there.

 

[Deleted member]

lol

i wish i had someone who'd do best of 101s

I play linguini and rockrock on a constant basis and i have to say that dash dancing to wait for a whiff aerial (which will happen cuz ganons create walls. just make sure not to get baited) and grab to **** is the most effective. on rockrock spacing nairs work but on linguini they def dont because he frame perfect u-air oos which beats nair. or he can do wut bigD said and fullhop dair to beat falcons nair. I agree with some things that S2J says but idk.... i'm from Florida, ganon is literally my fav matchup lol.


Grab ***** all ganons. Nairs **** mediocre ganons. Down throw to regrab or tech chase and up throw to nair, uair, or knee at certain percentages.
Oh yea i forgot to say approaching with really fast uairs also **** ganons. its better than nairing imo.

i probably do dash dance

just that i do it unconsciously actually

 

[Divinokage]

Hey if you want to do a really long MM, I wouldn't mind either. =P

 

[Deleted member]

i'm down haha

lets meet sometime and do a best of 21+

that way if i do win i won't win through gimmicks, but by being better

 

[0Room]

Oh god
the idea of a best of 101 MM

wtfffffffff
Best of 21 is kinda ridiculous too

 

[Divinokage]

If you destroy someone really badly, those 51-2, only took around 2 hours lol.

 

[0Room]

But when you're a similar level.....

 

[Divinokage]

best of 21? Hm.. Maybe less than 2 hours, idk. =P

 

[Roneblaster]

where da vids @ kage?

 

[Walt]

I basically do first to 255 KO stars with bob$ most nights we both have free. We don't have any set rules just that's usually what happens. I think I usually have about half as many as he does? But that means I'm getting 2 stocked every game lol.

 

[Divinokage]

where da vids @ kage?

Ah it's not uploaded yet, when SSF is on, I'll talk to him.

 

[The Upholder]

I basically do first to 255 KO stars with bob$ most nights we both have free. We don't have any set rules just that's usually what happens. I think I usually have about half as many as he does? But that means I'm getting 2 stocked every game lol.

You could lose every game and still win by that rule >_>

 

[Grinin]

Kage vs S2J best of 21 MM at Genesis, start your die bets!

Yo Kage, are you watching Gurren Lagann right now? Couldn't help but notice the avatar.

 

[Divinokage]

Ah no, I already watched the whole thing twice.. It's just a reminder to keep moving forward towards the heavens and universe. lol. =)