Divinokage
Smash Legend
Falcon players need to knee all the time to finish combos imo.. because it puts the opponent in such a ****ty position most of the time. <3 it. If the opponent is even at 50 close to the ledge I would knee and edgeguard lol.
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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]
- Thread starter Scar
- Start date
Mokumo
Smash Ace
uthrow to knee on peach works at like 40%. seriously. most peaches/zeldas don't see that coming the first time.
i've been debating whether or not to post this for a while now because i dont want peaches to figure that out. usually they don't expect the knee at all and they literally die at like 60% if you do it at the right part of the stage. its ****. it's won me a multitude of tournament matches that i might have lost otherwise. i don't think i've ever lost to a peach in tournament because of that very, very simple low % combo. that and there aren't any super pro peaches in my area =P
i've been debating whether or not to post this for a while now because i dont want peaches to figure that out. usually they don't expect the knee at all and they literally die at like 60% if you do it at the right part of the stage. its ****. it's won me a multitude of tournament matches that i might have lost otherwise. i don't think i've ever lost to a peach in tournament because of that very, very simple low % combo. that and there aren't any super pro peaches in my area =P
Walt
Smash Ace
Last time I played a peach in tourney I just grabbed and combo'd. That was my strat. I 2stocked then he went sheik and I lost lol.
linkoninja
Smash Journeyman
Is it possible to ledge-hop N-Air and get both hits?
mers
Smash Ace
Ya definitely. You should be fastfalling the end of it so the second hit is low enough.
Velox
Smash Ace
ETWIST51294
Smash Hero
Reflex isn't that bad guys. Seriously, he's an old school bowser in my eyes. Not a bralw mod.
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
ETWIST FOR THE LAST TIME, YOU ARE 12 YEARS OLD. DO NOT TALK TO ME ABOUT OLD SCHOOL THINGS.
****
capslockfilter
****
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Palpi
Smash Hero
I like penguins.
Shroomed
Smash Master
was the peach alan? rofl
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
lol palpi.
ETWIST51294
Smash Hero
Mokumo
Smash Ace
shield toggle like a pro:
shield with R/L, hold A, and press Z over and over again
shield with R/L, hold A, and press Z over and over again
linkoninja
Smash Journeyman
how is that even possible? When I drop from the ledge and jump towards the stage I don't even get the 2nd hit off.
Mokumo
Smash Ace
or just jump sooner after you let go. i usually hit down =P
Walt
Smash Ace
I feel like you're making fun o me dawayne!
I have been told you don't like being called dawayne.
Grinin
Smash Journeyman
If I were you I'd practice ganon as well, Pawl is no joke.
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
i cant practice vs either of them cause there isnt anyone where i play.
trahhSTEEZY
Smash Champion
it's kinda lame to ask a widespread of people advice vs specific players.
"yeah foxlisk is bad at X, do this to take advantage of the weakness and youll **** him!" sounds kinda lame. work on your character matchups, not your player.
"yeah foxlisk is bad at X, do this to take advantage of the weakness and youll **** him!" sounds kinda lame. work on your character matchups, not your player.
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Best advice is to just relax
I play my absolute best when I'm perfectly relaxed
Ganon is just like a slow version of you that you can combo haha
And is slow
Also Knee any bad recoveries ... i.e.
Overly obvious down-bs
Up-b at its highest point before he can really influence where he's going (don't get grabbed by the giant up-b hitbox)
I play my absolute best when I'm perfectly relaxed
Ganon is just like a slow version of you that you can combo haha
And is slow
Also Knee any bad recoveries ... i.e.
Overly obvious down-bs
Up-b at its highest point before he can really influence where he's going (don't get grabbed by the giant up-b hitbox)
Walt
Smash Ace
Watch out for angled up ftilts and shffl'd uair. Both will anti air everything you do. DD and long jump towards and just airdodge back down will often bait one of those options. When hit if you have room to tech away (without getting downB'd or sideB'd) for gods sake tech away, all ganons are looking for is you to do is tech in place or towards them for whatever reason and land a nasty stomp or fair. Be generally aware of jump back fair and **** them with DD. As far as recovery goes if they go in low you can dropzone their recovery usually if they don't reverse upB, if they do just grab the edge and ledgehop reverse knee a they go over you in, if they come back high or mid just knee/uair. Neither of you should ever get back to the stage.
Yeah I was talking to Kage and he was saying the same thing as far as getting back to stage.
So basically be patient, DD, what should you do off a grab?
I personally like uair, it can combo into Nair immediately, which sometimes leads to uair, which leads back into nair, which goes into knee
I have problems getting the uair-> knee though, the height I need to be is deceptive.
So basically be patient, DD, what should you do off a grab?
I personally like uair, it can combo into Nair immediately, which sometimes leads to uair, which leads back into nair, which goes into knee
I have problems getting the uair-> knee though, the height I need to be is deceptive.
linkoninja
Smash Journeyman
I'm having a crisis right now. I need to know what makes a good player. I know this is probably a stupid question but I have a reason for asking. I watch videos of some players and they don't seem THAT much faster than me. When I play though I feel I'm not comboing enough and I really don't know what I'm doing wrong. So is tech skill what matters MORE or is it mindgames what is it? I've seen guys like SS not kill foxes sometimes till 100+ and I do the same. But I feel the surprise **** factor is something that's impossible for me. I would post a video of me playing, but I can't find players to play against :/
Grinin
Smash Journeyman
You can have silent wolf's tech skill, but if you don't have mindgames you'll never go anywhere. There should be a purpose behind every action you perform in game.
It's less tech skill and more mindgames.
You need a good balance of both of them, but the mindgames in a pro match are on an entirely different level than friendlies for example.
As far as comboing goes, don't worry about it. Comboing comes naturally, usually if you TRY to get 0-deaths it won't work.
Just let it come to you, play everyone you can, and soon enough you'll be one of the great Falcon Mains.
Also, it says you live in LA
If so, you have a plethora of players to play against
http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=94
You need a good balance of both of them, but the mindgames in a pro match are on an entirely different level than friendlies for example.
As far as comboing goes, don't worry about it. Comboing comes naturally, usually if you TRY to get 0-deaths it won't work.
Just let it come to you, play everyone you can, and soon enough you'll be one of the great Falcon Mains.
Also, it says you live in LA
If so, you have a plethora of players to play against
http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=94
linkoninja
Smash Journeyman
thanks this helps
as far as tournaments I wish I could go but I'm only 16 and I have no one to drive me to San Fran, etc.
Dude smashers are really nice.
Find a thread in there asking for a ride, I'm sure someone is also from LA [that's a HUGE city...] and can drive you.
Just be sure to have them over and play a few times, and talk to your parents about it first.
Find a thread in there asking for a ride, I'm sure someone is also from LA [that's a HUGE city...] and can drive you.
Just be sure to have them over and play a few times, and talk to your parents about it first.
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
You can't say that tech skill is more important that "mindgames" or vice versa really ... they're both critical if you want to be competent at this or any competitive game.
It does you no good knowing what your opponent will do if you can't execute properly. Likewise, executing motions without understand the reasoning gets you nowhere vs competent players.
I think the fastest way to improve is to play with the purpose of learning, then go to tournaments to learn how to deal with tournament pressure and play with people that are better than you in varying degrees. Eventually you'll be able to pick up what works and what doesn't.
It does you no good knowing what your opponent will do if you can't execute properly. Likewise, executing motions without understand the reasoning gets you nowhere vs competent players.
I think the fastest way to improve is to play with the purpose of learning, then go to tournaments to learn how to deal with tournament pressure and play with people that are better than you in varying degrees. Eventually you'll be able to pick up what works and what doesn't.
Mokumo
Smash Ace
i find nair combos tend to **** ganon pretty bad. nair -> grab at earlier percents, nair -> uair/knee at mid/midhigh percents.
ganon can be chaingrabbed a little bit at lower percents with uthrow and dthrow depending on his DI. eventually you can just uthrow -> nair at like 10%-20%, maybe even earlier but you have to be fast.
i played kage once and it was actually really fun to play him.
ganon can be chaingrabbed a little bit at lower percents with uthrow and dthrow depending on his DI. eventually you can just uthrow -> nair at like 10%-20%, maybe even earlier but you have to be fast.
i played kage once and it was actually really fun to play him.
D
Deleted member
Guest
essential stuff
game knowledge (#1)
- lots of people 'think' they know the game but only know about 10%, i think i know about 50% at most
its pretty weird how despite being 10 years into the game, most people don't know what i consider essentials. Most of its kinda tough to pick up and fairly subtle but becomes extremely obvious once u know about it
for example, crouch cancelling (almost) every hit so you don't get combo *****
even in jeapie's european tournament vids, the fox in winners semis doesn't know about crouch cancelling on plats so jeapie could up-air--> knee easily each time. this ideally should never happen and 99% of the people don't know.
Watching old Azen 2006 vids, Azen heavily abused crouch cancelling. In Isai vs Azen Azen would always crouch cancel 1st hit of n-air to grab
Other stuff is how to DI: most people do survival ALWAYS and get pooped on. You want to ALWAYS set your DI to anti-survival unless you see a big hit coming that will kill you guaranteed.
so stomp --> up-air --> knee should NEVER connect. If it does your opponent messed up.
They should anti combo DI unless they see the knee emerging from falcon's body upon which they survival DI if at a high but survivable percent
Also, if you get kneed at 100% but you are on the opposite site of a big stage + you are kneed close to the stage, you can DI down and tech inwards. If you DI up you will almost die for sure
Most people simply don't know
tech skill- ability to execute
Almost every vid I see 500 tech skill errors. Most involve tech chasing and a lot of it has to do with how far a character rolls/ tech rolls and people barely are too far away to punsih
Lots of falcon mains after getting a knee at low-mid percents don't consider how far a character's tech roll is + momentum from getting kneed so they simply hop in with a knee and hope for the best. It's better to fox trot sometimes after a knee and wait and see where their body lands and if they tech towards the center+ have momentum from the knee, they will have a shorter tech roll distance, but if you know this its a free double knee
- not just shine comboz and cool stuff
- knowing tech distances and being able to punish, a lot of people get the correct read but mess up spacing
adapting-
mixing it up-
@0room, if ganon sucks then u can literally overwhelm and combo
smarter ganons will angle f-tilt, it's not terrible hard to bait out
great ganons will play extremely ghey and will crouch cancel every non strong move to jab or grab
no matter how good/bad a ganon is, knee on shield is safe, n-air on shield (spaced obviously) is safe, gentlemen is safer if you are not close to their shield (just like shine except instead of close you are further way)
ganon is a rag doll for falcon to pound on, ganon can only be very defensively ghey and hope you make mistakes, they really can't make anything happen unless you fall for a sick gimmick or make a silly approach
know your opponents capabilities. if they are a top tier ganon then space your n-airs hard so they don't crouch cancel first hit--> jab/grab. But if you space like a champ then even if they crouch 1st hit nair they can't do much if you hit with your toes, this imo makes the falcon vs ganon matchup really ghey for ganon if falcon insists on n-airing 50,000 times a match.
so if u want to win any matchup besides falco/shiek, space n-airs hard. Almost the entire cast has no answer to how ghey it is and you will win but you will get a punch in the face
@etwist- i've looked at reflex's recent posts (also to flame him but i changed my mind) and they are actually quite good, but i don't get why he would commit to basically what is a driveby shooting and infract me
game knowledge (#1)
- lots of people 'think' they know the game but only know about 10%, i think i know about 50% at most
its pretty weird how despite being 10 years into the game, most people don't know what i consider essentials. Most of its kinda tough to pick up and fairly subtle but becomes extremely obvious once u know about it
for example, crouch cancelling (almost) every hit so you don't get combo *****
even in jeapie's european tournament vids, the fox in winners semis doesn't know about crouch cancelling on plats so jeapie could up-air--> knee easily each time. this ideally should never happen and 99% of the people don't know.
Watching old Azen 2006 vids, Azen heavily abused crouch cancelling. In Isai vs Azen Azen would always crouch cancel 1st hit of n-air to grab
Other stuff is how to DI: most people do survival ALWAYS and get pooped on. You want to ALWAYS set your DI to anti-survival unless you see a big hit coming that will kill you guaranteed.
so stomp --> up-air --> knee should NEVER connect. If it does your opponent messed up.
They should anti combo DI unless they see the knee emerging from falcon's body upon which they survival DI if at a high but survivable percent
Also, if you get kneed at 100% but you are on the opposite site of a big stage + you are kneed close to the stage, you can DI down and tech inwards. If you DI up you will almost die for sure
Most people simply don't know
tech skill- ability to execute
Almost every vid I see 500 tech skill errors. Most involve tech chasing and a lot of it has to do with how far a character rolls/ tech rolls and people barely are too far away to punsih
Lots of falcon mains after getting a knee at low-mid percents don't consider how far a character's tech roll is + momentum from getting kneed so they simply hop in with a knee and hope for the best. It's better to fox trot sometimes after a knee and wait and see where their body lands and if they tech towards the center+ have momentum from the knee, they will have a shorter tech roll distance, but if you know this its a free double knee
- not just shine comboz and cool stuff
- knowing tech distances and being able to punish, a lot of people get the correct read but mess up spacing
adapting-
mixing it up-
@0room, if ganon sucks then u can literally overwhelm and combo
smarter ganons will angle f-tilt, it's not terrible hard to bait out
great ganons will play extremely ghey and will crouch cancel every non strong move to jab or grab
no matter how good/bad a ganon is, knee on shield is safe, n-air on shield (spaced obviously) is safe, gentlemen is safer if you are not close to their shield (just like shine except instead of close you are further way)
ganon is a rag doll for falcon to pound on, ganon can only be very defensively ghey and hope you make mistakes, they really can't make anything happen unless you fall for a sick gimmick or make a silly approach
know your opponents capabilities. if they are a top tier ganon then space your n-airs hard so they don't crouch cancel first hit--> jab/grab. But if you space like a champ then even if they crouch 1st hit nair they can't do much if you hit with your toes, this imo makes the falcon vs ganon matchup really ghey for ganon if falcon insists on n-airing 50,000 times a match.
so if u want to win any matchup besides falco/shiek, space n-airs hard. Almost the entire cast has no answer to how ghey it is and you will win but you will get a punch in the face
@etwist- i've looked at reflex's recent posts (also to flame him but i changed my mind) and they are actually quite good, but i don't get why he would commit to basically what is a driveby shooting and infract me
No he was saying he can already do tech skill pretty well.
So I was saying don't pursue that as much as playing people in general.
You need a balance for sure.
Mokumo
Smash Ace
very wise advice, thank you. as m2k said, '99% of you suck.' i hate to say it, but its true.
i can't remember the exact percentages off the top of my head but dthrow -> knee is roughly 70% - 90% ish. if they survival DI just about anything after 50% or so (like what s2j was saying earlier) its almost a guaranteed knee.
i think the triple knee is easiest to do on samus, not that that's something you should go for every match
D
Deleted member
Guest
your best hope is to up-throw quick before they DI at low percents and do up-airs. Hitting them with the tip is better then with your legs since samuses n-air trades easier if you up-air too close.
another good tactic (imo) is to up-throw (maybe down-throw) at that low-mid percent where they are going to tech on a platform and then tech read them for extreme ****
I find that if you are pretty quick on your throws you can usually connect with some moves, but straight up knee from a throw is very unlikely unless samus is bad (every samus except hugs and maybe 1-2 more)
sometimes you can catch even the best samuses in a wheel of fortune (10801385 up-airs), if you are getting a chain started space up-airs so you hit with ur toes so its harder for them to trade with n-air, most will mash out n-air or up-air
Triple Knee should never happen, hugs ALWAYS DI-s down unless i knee him around 100 percent so he survival DIs it, but it's still possible but they really have to mess up
i'd say one of the easiest ways to link a knee is ironically from another knee. Most samuses will survival DI it around 60-70 which is great for another knee unless they are actually good
it's an extremely easy matchup once you know what to do. Most samuses suck so its 70-30. If they are a top tier samus then its 57-43 at WORST for falcon. Sadly only people who play hugo a lot know the matchup
if Samus up-bs you, DI up really hard so you can punish as she lands. Most samuses try to trick you by up-bing and then falling through a platform but you can DI-up, fast fall after samus up-b ends, and then usually do a f-tilt.
Sometimes you can DI down hard enough and hit the tech button so that when samus up-b starts you can tech it and samus is in the air where you then **** her
If you bait an up-b and/or they whiff, full hop knee
if you dont punish,
decent samuses will either go through a plat to trick you or if they are even better edge cancel on platforms
free stuff:
if you block a down-smash, maybe d-tilt you have a free knee
shield pressure:
spaced n-air, spaced gentlemen, spaced knee, space anything works
against shield pressure:
most samuses do a shabby imitation of hugo's shield pressure. If they are jabbing your shield too close then simply shield grab. You can often get away from jabs by either buffer jumping/ buffer rolling. If they punish you for picking an option (too much), change it up
what not to do:
get d-smashed next to an edge and get edgeguarded to death
don't do silly things, but know that samuses with a game plan love to camp the edge. If you can bait them/block down-smash its a free knee. But getting hit is very very bad. I only recommend dueling with them next to the edge once u learn the matchup more/ adapt to opponent
if you did get d-smashed, you must do some sick jeff recovery tricks and use plats and hope they mess up
note that most of this info is only relevant against hugs, every other samus is so flawed that
if you follow the basics like knee after missed d-smash/up-b you should always win. it's all game knowledge and i'm fortunate enough to play hugs a lot. i can confidently say i will never lose to a samus with falcon except hugs where we are pretty even
if you want some visual stuff, don't watch my matches vs hugs since they are outdated
Me vs hugQ is slightly outdated but decent for visual info, refer to that if you want to see my tips in action
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
linkoninja
Smash Journeyman
How exactly do you "buffer" with Falcon? What does that mean, I've heard it a lot before. And what exactly is "survival DI"