Scar on the Melee vs Brawl debate: What does competitive really mean?

[Lovage 805]

Jafar what confuses me in this thread is how you can expect anyone to take your arguments seriously when you stated you've never played Melee This thread is a melee vs. brawl debate.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Well, there are links to all the important posts in the thread on the first post >.>

Edit: this was for Toyz Soldier

@Jafar: Its simple physics in the context of the game. Cus thats what we're discussing here you ******, a GAME. Its how things were supposed to work in the GAME. I'm going to continue putting GAME in all caps until I'm sure that you understand what we're talking about here and not some delusional crazy who lives in a fantasy world where magical angels fight plumbers but sliding is impossible.

Just once more so you get it: we're talking about a GAME

Edit2: The wavedashing "glitch" is still in Brawl, as you still slide when you have momentum against the ground.

 

[Jafar]

Seriously stop posting, your ignorance and arrogance are beyond annoying. This is a video game with TONS of unrealistic physics among other things that simply do not exist in real life, and yet this is your point that wavedashing doesn't make sense?

Are you in the argument... do you know what i was responding too? Exactly i thought so you have no clue why I said what I said.

If you say its basic physics then it is applicable to the real world. Because its physics. So dont speak.


Anyone who says it was not a glitch is kidding themselves.

It was a glitch that made characters have a bigger advantage over other's.

Also you say i suck at melee i suck and brawl. Do you think i give a **** what your opinion is? I dont play these games competativley i play to enjoy them.

Yes i suck at melee because i barley played it seriously... Yes i suck at brawl because i barley play it.

IT doesnt change the fact that a glitch is a glitch and it was never intended. Did it make the game better? For a certain few players it helped them do super combos. Does that mean it was fair and should be allowed no.

How many maps in a tourney were used with a wall? Hmm none ohh cuz some one could infinite you against it.


If you had a super combo that you could do because of l cancal or wave dash you shouldnt even talk if they are glitches or not.

Because your sour that there gone and you cant have an unfair advantage.

 

[Jafar]

Jafar what confuses me in this thread is how you can expect anyone to take your arguments seriously when you stated you've never played Melee This thread is a melee vs. brawl debate.

I never said i have not played melee.

The debate stems from people feeling that the two repaired glitches added to the game it took away from it.

The game is much more balanced compared to the previous version.


What is less competative about it? That the characters dont have super combos because of a glitch?

Well, there are links to all the important posts in the thread on the first post >.>

Edit: this was for Toyz Soldier

@Jafar: Its simple physics in the context of the game. Cus thats what we're discussing here you ******, a GAME. Its how things were supposed to work in the GAME. I'm going to continue putting GAME in all caps until I'm sure that you understand what we're talking about here and not some delusional crazy who lives in a fantasy world where magical angels fight plumbers but sliding is impossible.

Just once more so you get it: we're talking about a GAME

Edit2: The wavedashing "glitch" is still in Brawl, as you still slide when you have momentum against the ground.

even in a game the physics dont fly. Sliding around from a stationary position is not physics. if it was then why was it removed?

And the glitch is not in brawl the sliding can not be done form a standing postion. You can slide if you jump and then move back then you will do a slide forward yes.

but you cant skip the jumping portion to just slide back from a standing postion which is what wave dashing did.

Same with L cancal its glitch has been removed. There is a reason why the developers added a window of lag before and after certain attacks it was to balance them out.

If it was not a glitch why was it removed.

Aside from the removal of wave dashing and l cancaling what make's brawl less competative.

You still have one on ones, you still have mind games, except now there balanced evenly instead of having two top tier characters running **** wild with el glitcho.

 

[Shai Hulud]

He obviously meant the in-game physics, dumb@ss. Nobody thinks general relativity or the lambda cdm cosmological model are at work in SSBM.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

this thread makes me lol

also, melee players around the country already dominating brawl tournaments also makes me laugh

silly brawl scrubs =D

QFT.

Jafar, stop trolling the thread please.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Pink Reaper]

I never said i have not played melee.

The debate stems from people feeling that the two repaired glitches added to the game it took away from it.

The game is much more balanced compared to the previous version.


What is less competative about it? That the characters dont have super combos because of a glitch?



even in a game the physics dont fly. Sliding around from a stationary position is not physics. if it was then why was it removed?

And the glitch is not in brawl the sliding can not be done form a standing postion. You can slide if you jump and then move back then you will do a slide forward yes.

but you cant skip the jumping portion to just slide back from a standing postion which is what wave dashing did.

Same with L cancal its glitch has been removed. There is a reason why the developers added a window of lag before and after certain attacks it was to balance them out.

If it was not a glitch why was it removed.

Aside from the removal of wave dashing and l cancaling what make's brawl less competative.

You still have one on ones, you still have mind games, except now there balanced evenly instead of having two top tier characters running **** wild with el glitcho.

Lets look at whats wrong with this post shall we?

Besides the obviously incorrect and overly liberal use of the word Glitch you state that this thread is about glitches. Its not, its actually about Melee and Brawl in terms of competitive 1v1 fighters and which one would be better for the community and whether or not Brawl is worth moving on to.

You still believe that Wavedashing is done from the ground, its not, its done from the air, it just so happens that alot of players have the skill to do it very close to the ground.

You state that L-canceling was a glitch taken out to balance out characters, but this is entirely untrue. Without L-Canceling, Fox/Falco can still drill shine, Marth can still combo the **** out of you, Shiek is still ******** with tilts and grabs and Peach still has her Dsmash. However without L-Canceling characters like Ganon, Falcon and Donkey Kong, characters that are perfectly playable WITH L-canceling become basically worthless.

What else makes Brawl less competitive? Auto Sweet Spotting, Easy powers hielding, little to no hit stun, little to no combo ability, emphaisis on defensive play, random tripping, grab nerfs, quick shield dropping, the lack of any really offensive gameplay.

 

[∫unk]

Are you in the argument... do you know what i was responding too? Exactly i thought so you have no clue why I said what I said.

If you say its basic physics then it is applicable to the real world. Because its physics. So dont speak.


Anyone who says it was not a glitch is kidding themselves.

It was a glitch that made characters have a bigger advantage over other's.

Also you say i suck at melee i suck and brawl. Do you think i give a **** what your opinion is? I dont play these games competativley i play to enjoy them.

Yes i suck at melee because i barley played it seriously... Yes i suck at brawl because i barley play it.

IT doesnt change the fact that a glitch is a glitch and it was never intended. Did it make the game better? For a certain few players it helped them do super combos. Does that mean it was fair and should be allowed no.

How many maps in a tourney were used with a wall? Hmm none ohh cuz some one could infinite you against it.


If you had a super combo that you could do because of l cancal or wave dash you shouldnt even talk if they are glitches or not.

Because your sour that there gone and you cant have an unfair advantage.

You are so dumb....

1) You're statement about WD giving certain characters advantages may be true, but the great thing about WD (and why it was loved by any decent player) was it made the game much deeper and much more complex for ALL characters. You had much more control over your movement with WD. I don't use WD to primarily pull off "super combos", I use it for quick spacing.

2) If you barely play either game ytf are you spending time answering on a forum? I'm pretty sure you can find better things to do with your time. If you play to enjoy them ytf are you on a forum defending yourself against other internet randoms. Their opinion won't change your enjoyment of the game.

3) L-cancel was intended and not a glitch. In 64 it was z-cancel. They were part of the game from the beginning and were intended to let more competitive players speed up their game. WD was discovered but developers left it in. No, they did not anticipate that WDing would have the effect that it did, but they knew about it. They already knew the effect L-cancelling would have because 64 showed the possibilities with it.

4) Your wall comment makes no sense... getting infinite against a wall isn't a glitch. It's just a character not being able to escape because of hitstun.

5) Something being unfair is a point of opinion. Most people do not find WDing and L-cancelling unfair because EVERY CHARACTER CAN DO IT. If you can't do it don't come here to cry about it.

 

[thesage]

Melee and brawl were never made to be very competative games. There being changed to be competative by players which in essence makes the game not be what it is.

Um... when I made the transition from casual to competitive I just banned some stages that I didn't like from random select. You're supposed to play it in order to have fun. This is how competitive players have fun. If you want to play your own way to have fun, then I don't care, that's what you do.

The competative ness is diffrent. L cancaling was a necessatiy in melee because of major character lag. Wave dashing was un-needed and should have never been used. Its like a glitch in the game. Doing a dash animation when you shouldnt be able to. (correct me if thats way off)

L-canceling would still be helpful in brawl. Now what we have to do is just short hop attack instead of shffl which makes the game much slower. And if wd'ing wasn't in melee Marth would be super overpowered.

Things that were not added into the game should not be used. If its something you do that gives a good effect because the game does it but is not supposed to it shouldnt be allowed in the first place.

So Peach's fc and Ness' yyg should've been banned. Everything else is a natural result of the physics engine used.

Brawl is much more balanced of a game for now. While in melee fox and falco were very good and managed to smoke most competition.

Stop it with the fox and falco being overpowered. Falco wasn't even the 2nd best anymore and a Jigglypuff player won the last major tournament. And right now, there isn't a counter to Game and Watch, while every other character has at least one tough matchup (even the top tiers in melee were countered by some chars).

So far lots of various teams/players characters have won so far in brawl. Game and watch ike dedede snake r.o.b marth and many more.

Brawl is being made into competative game just as melee was, your changing a game from what its supposed to be into a game its not.

Um... just how is smash is supposed to be played? If we were only meant to play with items, there wouldn't be an option to turn them off. You don't have to play on all stages with the random stage select. Is it wavedashing that makes you not like the competitive scene?

The games were never meant to be competative. But u turn off all the items and only play on one -two level's and you take away the whole game.

Really so.... FD, Battlefield, FoD, Green Greens, Corneria, Yoshi's story, Dream Land, Pokemon Stadium, Jungle Japes, Donkey Kong 64, and others all amount to two stages?

Yes not using items, or smash balls is ok. But it makes the game naked where its made into a normal fighter which doesnt compete to real fighting games like street fighter guilty gear.

Too bad melee never even approached the size of the competitive scene of those games, oh wait, it was larger than them. Also, saying one fighting game series > than another is just bias. From what u post u clearly don't even know anything about the competitive scene so learn more then start debating or just stop.

Your playing a game where you have no margin of error while doing a special or a smash.
Its like playing capcom vs snk with EOism.

You just dilute the game.

Could you explain this sentence, I don't understand what you are trying to say.

 

[Magus420]

If you cant see that Wave dashing and L cancal were glitches then your stupid.

http://web.archive.org/web/19991117180837/http://smashbros.com/moves_advattacklanding.html

That is from the archive of Nintendo's old www.smashbros.com site (used for SSB64 at the time). Not only was Z-cancelling not a glitch, but they had a name for it: "Smooth Landing".

'Your' the one that is stupid.

Stop talking.

 

[Fletch]

Dear Jafar,

You're a ****ing idiot and I sincerely hope you die in the most painful way possible, as soon as possible.

Love,
Plank

My thoughts exactly, addressing you once was more than enough.

 

[YumeMaxx]

Well, seeing the thread, I thought I'd have to add my own two cents.

You see, I'm one of those apparent "weirdos" who often looks at gaming from an artistic perspective. It's true. As far as I'm concerned, game-creation is as much an art as painting, writing music or authoring a book. So I look at this argument under that pretense.

So come on, from MY standpoint, Melee doesn't even COMPETE against Brawl. Looking at music, visual appeal, creativity and artistic finesse, Brawl stands out as the superior game by a LONG SHOT.

i could delve into each particular area and explain myself, but I'm sure anyone who has played the game understands. Or nobody cares. You choose.

But I understand this debate isn't all about artistic vision backing each game. A game's not a game without solid gameplay.

I'm an avid gamer, don't get me wrong. I also played Melee competitively, back when it was big. Honestly, I don't see a problem.

"It's slower"... I hear that so much. So what if it's slower than Melee. It's not like playing a match of Slo-Mo Melee or anything. The game still moves at a decent clip. Get over it.

And yes, Nintendo made some aspects of gameplay more accessible to new players. What's teh problem with that. New players = potential new challenges. Smash Bros. is no fun if you're always at the top. The fun comes in having a challenge when you play.

I don't want to start some pointless page-stretching rant though... I just wanted to point out that for the most part, arguments supporting Melee's superiority are mostly shallow-minded and immature. People need to stop outweighing the bad over the good. There's a great game to be had here. =D

 

[Pink Reaper]

Well, seeing the thread, I thought I'd have to add my own two cents.

You see, I'm one of those apparent "weirdos" who often looks at gaming from an artistic perspective. It's true. As far as I'm concerned, game-creation is as much an art as painting, writing music or authoring a book. So I look at this argument under that pretense.

So come on, from MY standpoint, Melee doesn't even COMPETE against Brawl. Looking at music, visual appeal, creativity and artistic finesse, Brawl stands out as the superior game by a LONG SHOT.

i could delve into each particular area and explain myself, but I'm sure anyone who has played the game understands. Or nobody cares. You choose.

But I understand this debate isn't all about artistic vision backing each game. A game's not a game without solid gameplay.

I'm an avid gamer, don't get me wrong. I also played Melee competitively, back when it was big. Honestly, I don't see a problem.

"It's slower"... I hear that so much. So what if it's slower than Melee. It's not like playing a match of Slo-Mo Melee or anything. The game still moves at a decent clip. Get over it.

And yes, Nintendo made some aspects of gameplay more accessible to new players. What's teh problem with that. New players = potential new challenges. Smash Bros. is no fun if you're always at the top. The fun comes in having a challenge when you play.

I don't want to start some pointless page-stretching rant though... I just wanted to point out that for the most part, arguments supporting Melee's superiority are mostly shallow-minded and immature. People need to stop outweighing the bad over the good. There's a great game to be had here. =D

This is not a debate about which game is prettier. Its not about which game has better music. It's not about which game has a better one player mode. Its about which game is better from a 1v1 competitive standpoint, and the fact that you made this large post without realizing that makes me doubt that you ever actually played the game competitively.

 

[Fletch]

Well, seeing the thread, I thought I'd have to add my own two cents.

You see, I'm one of those apparent "weirdos" who often looks at gaming from an artistic perspective. It's true. As far as I'm concerned, game-creation is as much an art as painting, writing music or authoring a book. So I look at this argument under that pretense.

So come on, from MY standpoint, Melee doesn't even COMPETE against Brawl. Looking at music, visual appeal, creativity and artistic finesse, Brawl stands out as the superior game by a LONG SHOT.

i could delve into each particular area and explain myself, but I'm sure anyone who has played the game understands. Or nobody cares. You choose.

But I understand this debate isn't all about artistic vision backing each game. A game's not a game without solid gameplay.

I'm an avid gamer, don't get me wrong. I also played Melee competitively, back when it was big. Honestly, I don't see a problem.

"It's slower"... I hear that so much. So what if it's slower than Melee. It's not like playing a match of Slo-Mo Melee or anything. The game still moves at a decent clip. Get over it.

And yes, Nintendo made some aspects of gameplay more accessible to new players. What's teh problem with that. New players = potential new challenges. Smash Bros. is no fun if you're always at the top. The fun comes in having a challenge when you play.

I don't want to start some pointless page-stretching rant though... I just wanted to point out that for the most part, arguments supporting Melee's superiority are mostly shallow-minded and immature. People need to stop outweighing the bad over the good. There's a great game to be had here. =D

I don't even know where to start. Did you read the original post?

 

[Jafar]

Lets look at whats wrong with this post shall we?

Besides the obviously incorrect and overly liberal use of the word Glitch you state that this thread is about glitches. Its not, its actually about Melee and Brawl in terms of competitive 1v1 fighters and which one would be better for the community and whether or not Brawl is worth moving on to.

You still believe that Wavedashing is done from the ground, its not, its done from the air, it just so happens that alot of players have the skill to do it very close to the ground.

It doesnt matter where its done when done fast enough you dont see the jump animation and your feet do not leave the grounds they just slide on it.

There is no jump animation being done its just doing the sliding.

You state that L-canceling was a glitch taken out to balance out characters, but this is entirely untrue. Without L-Canceling, Fox/Falco can still drill shine, Marth can still combo the **** out of you, Shiek is still ******** with tilts and grabs and Peach still has her Dsmash. However without L-Canceling characters like Ganon, Falcon and Donkey Kong, characters that are perfectly playable WITH L-canceling become basically worthless.

And that was something that was never intended. The characters have that lag for a reason, and using l cancaling to get rid of that lag is cheating and a glitch.

What else makes Brawl less competitive? Auto Sweet Spotting, Easy powers hielding, little to no hit stun, little to no combo ability, emphaisis on defensive play, random tripping, grab nerfs, quick shield dropping, the lack of any really offensive gameplay.

The game has been around for a tad, offensive game play shall emerge. Sweet spotting is stupid in its own right.

There is combo ability. Defensive play is a play style offensive players will come out soon enough.

You are so dumb....

1) You're statement about WD giving certain characters advantages may be true, but the great thing about WD (and why it was loved by any decent player) was it made the game much deeper and much more complex for ALL characters. You had much more control over your movement with WD. I don't use WD to primarily pull off "super combos", I use it for quick spacing.

U were not supposed to have an ability to space yourself like that. Its still an unfair advantage that was not intended. You were not suposed to space back and space in with the speed that wave dashing allowed.

it was a glitch period.

2) If you barely play either game ytf are you spending time answering on a forum? I'm pretty sure you can find better things to do with your time. If you play to enjoy them ytf are you on a forum defending yourself against other internet randoms. Their opinion won't change your enjoyment of the game.

Sports analyists barley play sports why can they analyse it?

Maybee i enjoy arguing? and therefore this is enjoyment enough for me as im bored.

3) L-cancel was intended and not a glitch. In 64 it was z-cancel. They were part of the game from the beginning and were intended to let more competitive players speed up their game. WD was discovered but developers left it in. No, they did not anticipate that WDing would have the effect that it did, but they knew about it. They already knew the effect L-cancelling would have because 64 showed the possibilities with it.

The part of L cancaling where if you do it it will void your character doing the finishing animaiton he needed?
Where can you show developers knew of this or WDing?

4) Your wall comment makes no sense... getting infinite against a wall isn't a glitch. It's just a character not being able to escape because of hitstun.

I never said it was a glitch. I said because of a glitch...aka wave shining you couldnt allow levels with a wall because fox would decimate you if he got you against it.

5) Something being unfair is a point of opinion. Most people do not find WDing and L-cancelling unfair because EVERY CHARACTER CAN DO IT. If you can't do it don't come here to cry about it.

So every character can use wave dashing to shine.. and combo like fox did?

so slow characters who are strong are supposed to be allowed to use L cancal to speed up there moves and create deadly combos?

The developers made Animations the character takes after a move to balance the game with L cancal it allowed the slow strong characters to nullify that form of balance.

Um... when I made the transition from casual to competitive I just banned some stages that I didn't like from random select. You're supposed to play it in order to have fun. This is how competitive players have fun. If you want to play your own way to have fun, then I don't care, that's what you do.

And tournaments ban characters to your specifications? they banned things that they didnt have to because of it.

L-canceling would still be helpful in brawl. Now what we have to do is just short hop attack instead of shffl which makes the game much slower. And if wd'ing wasn't in melee Marth would be super overpowered.

It Takes away a big thing from the powerful slow characters. There hits are supposed to be hard but if missed take longer to recover. L cancaling ruins that whole thing.

Stop it with the fox and falco being overpowered. Falco wasn't even the 2nd best anymore and a Jigglypuff player won the last major tournament. And right now, there isn't a counter to Game and Watch, while every other character has at least one tough matchup (even the top tiers in melee were countered by some chars).

confused if your talking about melee or brawl in this section.

If the top characters counter is a character that doesnt do good vs others they will cut themselves out of the running if there not popular.

If peach is the best and her counter is mario but mario is not that great vs other characters
who would risk picking mario to counter the best when they wont get to the end unless they play something else?

Um... just how is smash is supposed to be played? If we were only meant to play with items, there wouldn't be an option to turn them off. You don't have to play on all stages with the random stage select. Is it wavedashing that makes you not like the competitive scene?

Im just saying the game wasnt made with competition in mind it was altered to fit that.

Smash is the only game that allows glitches in tourneys.

Really so.... FD, Battlefield, FoD, Green Greens, Corneria, Yoshi's story, Dream Land, Pokemon Stadium, Jungle Japes, Donkey Kong 64, and others all amount to two stages?

Majority of tournies in brawll use fd or battlefield. (so far) that i have noticed.

Too bad melee never even approached the size of the competitive scene of those games, oh wait, it was larger than them. Also, saying one fighting game series > than another is just bias. From what u post u clearly don't even know anything about the competitive scene so learn more then start debating or just stop.

Stop assuming i dont knwo something when in fact you dont know. Also can you show proof of smash having a larger competative scene?

Could you explain this sentence, I don't understand what you are trying to say.

This was just about when ever u wanna do a special you will execute it no matter what. Whenever you wanna do a smash you will execute it (if you use c stick)

While in other games if you do a quarter circle punch you wont always land that move.

I can shoot links bow and arrow a million times in a row withought messing up
I cant shoot 15 hadukens in a row withought missing.

Thats what i meant about margin of error.

http://web.archive.org/web/19991117180837/http://smashbros.com/moves_advattacklanding.html

That is from the archive of Nintendo's old www.smashbros.com site (used for SSB64 at the time). Not only was Z-cancelling not a glitch, but they had a name for it: "Smooth Landing".

'Your' the one that is stupid.

Stop talking.

What does this have to do with Wave dashing. what you quoted.

And Why dont u show that SAME archive for L-Cancaling if it was not a glitch?

 

[arrowhead]

Dear Jafar,

You're a ****ing idiot and I sincerely hope you die in the most painful way possible, as soon as possible.

Love,
Plank

i don't think any of us can stress this enough

 

[dr0go]

well brawl should get a chance it hasnt passed a month since the north american release and people are already criticizing it.it also has been about7 years since melee's release and everyone got used to it so it probably will have to pass a little time for people to get used to brawl

 

[Shai Hulud]

It doesnt matter where its done when done fast enough you dont see the jump animation and your feet do not leave the grounds they just slide on it.

Wrong. You can't air-dodge until you are off the ground, i.e., the jump animation has completed. That's why the timing varies for the different characters. You have 4-frame characters, 5-frame, 6-frame, etc. Perfectly timed wavedashes give the illusion that the character has not left the ground, but this is just because a nearly horizontal air dodge is completed on frame 1 of the jump.

The rest of your post just screams "I AM A SCRUB" in big, angry letters. Like this:

I [Jafar] AM A SCRUB!

Read the article linked in my sig, scrub.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Sorry for the double-post, just noticed this gem:

Smash is the only game that allows glitches in tourneys.

You have no f*cking clue what you're talking about, do you? Pretty much every fighting game ever allows glitches / exploits. So do a lot of FPS (the Halo series for instance) tourneys. Ever heard of bunny-hopping? Probably not. In CS 1.6 you can shoot through most of the walls. Who knows if this is a glitch (it's not a feature of Source) but it's a major part of tournament gameplay.

 

[Jafar]

Sorry for the double-post, just noticed this gem:


You have no f*cking clue what you're talking about, do you? Pretty much every fighting game ever allows glitches / exploits. So do a lot of FPS (the Halo series for instance) tourneys. Ever heard of bunny-hopping? Probably not. In CS 1.6 you can shoot through most of the walls. Who knows if this is a glitch (it's not a feature of Source) but it's a major part of tournament gameplay.

Yes bunny hopping how usefull is bunny hopping in cs now compared to prior? Like in games like TFC

Wait you can shoot through a wall. WITH BULLETS... NO WAY.

OMG COD 4 Lets you shoot through walls that a glitch too?

Really What other games allow glitche's?

Wrong. You can't air-dodge until you are off the ground, i.e., the jump animation has completed. That's why the timing varies for the different characters. You have 4-frame characters, 5-frame, 6-frame, etc. Perfectly timed wavedashes give the illusion that the character has not left the ground, but this is just because a nearly horizontal air dodge is completed on frame 1 of the jump.

The rest of your post just screams "I AM A SCRUB" in big, angry letters. Like this:

I [Jafar] AM A SCRUB!

Read the article linked in my sig, scrub.

YOUR AN IDIOT. Read the bold section that is your contradiction.

Here is an animation of a jump. (well double jump)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTD1KJuGDSI

This is a wave dash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USgBRLRf5sQ

Now please show me WHERE WHERE OH WHERE in that wave dash does the full jump animation go through?

Or go watch this. at 48 seconds you see the short hop animation that is the full animation.
Then wen he wave dashes you see NONE OF THAT animation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpHpUEPBmzs

That is why the animation NEVER goes through. Your skipping a whole animation that was given to the character to do a move that was NEVER intended to be done.

Its a glitch of the system.

 

[Fletch]

Sorry for the double-post, just noticed this gem:


You have no f*cking clue what you're talking about, do you? Pretty much every fighting game ever allows glitches / exploits. So do a lot of FPS (the Halo series for instance) tourneys. Ever heard of bunny-hopping? Probably not. In CS 1.6 you can shoot through most of the walls. Who knows if this is a glitch (it's not a feature of Source) but it's a major part of tournament gameplay.

Not to mention the things allowed in Smash aren't even considered glitches... the real glitches such as the IC freeze glitch and Mewtwo's Soul-Stunner aren't allowed, and everything that was incorporated into "advanced techniques" was done so intentionally, except for save maybe the wavedash, but that was simply landing animation for an airdodge into the ground. Just ignore this guy and he'll go away, he's made it apparent over and over again that he has no idea what he is talking about.

 

[Magus420]

Why dont u show that SAME archive for L-Cancaling if it was not a glitch?

So you're suggesting:

1) They intentionally put z-cancelling in SSB64 to reduce all attack landing lag.
2) They then intended to remove it completely for Melee but for whatever reason f***ed up, and so it was totally just a glitch that l-cancelling, which is the same exact concept, just happened to cut the lag to precisely half the normal lag (rounded down). Having a specific window programmed in to perform the technique was also just a glitch.
3) That you having the capacity to operate a computer is also a glitch.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Smash is the only game that allows glitches in tourneys.

ROFL. Ever play Marvel vs. Capcom 2? Ever play Capcom vs. SNK 2? Ever play Tekken? Ever play Soul Calibur? Ever play Street Fighter 3?

 

[Pink Reaper]

There's no point in responding to him any more guys. He obviously refuses to accept anything other than he has created in his own delusional little world. The fact of the matter is that we know we're right, everyone else knows we're right, and if anyone with half a brain looked at our information from a neutral stand point they would accept that we are right. So I suggest we just move on and continue looking for a way to advance Brawl in some way shape or form(that hopefully doesn't involve camping)

 

[Jafar]

So you're suggesting:

1) They intentionally put z-cancelling in SSB64 to reduce all attack landing lag.
2) They then intended to remove it completely for Melee but for whatever reason f***ed up, and so it was totally just a glitch that l-cancelling, which is the same exact concept, just happened to cut the lag to precisely half the normal lag (rounded down). Having a specific window programmed in to perform the technique was also just a glitch.
3) That you having the capacity to operate a computer is also a glitch.

WHen you incorporate a game mecanic into one game and see that its not working you remove it. Now they didnt do it properly but in brawl its gone.

If you implment something into TWO games of your series why would you remove it from the 3rd?

 

[LouisLeGros]

well brawl should get a chance it hasnt passed a month since the north american release and people are already criticizing it.it also has been about7 years since melee's release and everyone got used to it so it probably will have to pass a little time for people to get used to brawl

Right now is exactly when we should be criticizing the game most.

This discussion of every competitive aspect of Brawl in conjunction with the developing meta-game is important to do at this early stage in the game's lifespan. It is through discussions like these that we will better be able to understand the long term ramifications that any particular aspect of Brawl will have on competitive play.





Also...
Maybe if we ignore him* he will go away, he clearly is in no way contributing to the discussion of the thread and has no understanding of smash competitive play.

*he does not deserve to be addressed by his user name

 

[Endless Nightmares]

(that hopefully doesn't involve camping)

Pink Reaper, I'm sorry, but...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nj6ZLFjtNVI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kxgOkRyG3ho
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Noq5cNGM6A
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BfR9zIQ6FPE

 

[Jafar]

ROFL. Ever play Marvel vs. Capcom 2? Ever play Capcom vs. SNK 2? Ever play Tekken? Ever play Soul Calibur? Ever play Street Fighter 3?

Care to name the glitch?

"There's no point in responding to him any more guys. He obviously refuses to accept anything other than he has created in his own delusional little world. The fact of the matter is that we know we're right, everyone else knows we're right, and if anyone with half a brain looked at our information from a neutral stand point they would accept that we are right. So I suggest we just move on and continue looking for a way to advance Brawl in some way shape or form(that hopefully doesn't involve camping)"

Where are you right its a glitch.

If it wasnt why is it removed? Go ask a developer.

You just whine because your an elitest who doesnt know ****.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Pink Reaper, I'm sorry, but...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nj6ZLFjtNVI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kxgOkRyG3ho
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Noq5cNGM6A
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BfR9zIQ6FPE

I know, I've seen them

It seriously makes me sad to think that Brawl may not advance beyond that.

Oh well, if not, there's always melee(or guilty gear)

 

[BlackPanther]

Jafar, why do you believe so strongly that wavedash is a glitch? A glitch is a bug that ****es up the actual gameplay which wavedashing does not because everyone can do it and you're not invincible from the airdodge. I can go into more explaining but I was pretty much tellin you the difference between that and somethin like IC's freeze glitch when the opponent can't do anything and you're at the mercy of ic's or mewtwos glitch move. Give me a GOOD explanation as to why you think wavedashing is a glitch and you won't look so much like an idiot. ****in newbs who just join and think know what they're talkin about without actually playin the game, my goodness just stop postin period.

 

[Fletch]

Pink Reaper, I'm sorry, but...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nj6ZLFjtNVI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kxgOkRyG3ho
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Noq5cNGM6A
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BfR9zIQ6FPE

Please make it go away.

 

[Jafar]

Right now is exactly when we should be criticizing the game most.

This discussion of every competitive aspect of Brawl in conjunction with the developing meta-game is important to do at this early stage in the game's lifespan. It is through discussions like these that we will better be able to understand the long term ramifications that any particular aspect of Brawl will have on competitive play.





Also...
Maybe if we ignore him* he will go away, he clearly is in no way contributing to the discussion of the thread and has no understanding of smash competitive play.

*he does not deserve to be addressed by his user name

Thanks man. But everyone knows its a glitch im just enlightining you to that fact.

Look up the defenition of glitch.. Now look if you can find somewhere that say's wave dashing and L cancal were an INTENDED part of the game.

Aka glitch.

 

[LouisLeGros]

Please make it go away.

you quoted the wrong person, you just have to ignore him and it will happen

 

[Jafar]

Jafar, why do you believe so strongly that wavedash is a glitch? A glitch is a bug that ****es up the actual gameplay which wavedashing does not because everyone can do it and you're not invincible from the airdodge. I can go into more explaining but I was pretty much tellin you the difference between that and somethin like IC's freeze glitch when the opponent can't do anything and you're at the mercy of ic's or mewtwos glitch move. Give me a GOOD explanation as to why you think wavedashing is a glitch and you won't look so much like an idiot. ****in newbs who just join and think know what they're talkin about without actually playin the game, my goodness just stop postin period.

A glitch does not **** up actual gameplay it can be used in an effective manor. Which is how wave and L cancal were utilized.

A glitch is simply put.

glitch (glĭch) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. A minor malfunction, mishap, or technical problem; a snag: a computer glitch; a navigational glitch; a glitch in the negotiations.
2. A false or spurious electronic signal caused by a brief, unwanted surge of electric power.
3. Astronomy A sudden change in the period of rotation of a neutron star.

Because of the system working in a way it allowed to create something that was not intended.
They did not intend to place wave dashing in the game that is why its a glitch.

Show me how is it not a glitch?

Did the developers intend to place it in their game?
Did they ever speak about how to do a wave dash?
Did the put it into the sequel?

Fact is its an unintended part of the game. Therefore its a glitch.

 

[Jafar]

you quoted the wrong person, you just have to ignore him and it will happen

Good luck with that.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Care to name the glitch?

"There's no point in responding to him any more guys. He obviously refuses to accept anything other than he has created in his own delusional little world. The fact of the matter is that we know we're right, everyone else knows we're right, and if anyone with half a brain looked at our information from a neutral stand point they would accept that we are right. So I suggest we just move on and continue looking for a way to advance Brawl in some way shape or form(that hopefully doesn't involve camping)"

Where are you right its a glitch.

If it wasnt why is it removed? Go ask a developer.

You just whine because your an elitest who doesnt know ****.

Tekken? Wavedashing, sidestep cancel, backdash cancel, probably a ton of other stuff I can't even remember.

Street Fighter 3? Kara throws, maybe some other stuff.

Soul Calibur? Variable cancel, G-step, 2G bug.

Capcom vs SNK 2? Roll cancel.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2? THE ENTIRE ****ING GAME.

 

[Magus420]

you quoted the wrong person, you just have to ignore him and it will happen

Good luck with that.

GG

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I've noticed that many people in this thread pointed out that Brawl seems to turning into a camping-dominant game. If anyone would like to discuss/read others' opinions about that then check out this thread.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156725

I didn't think it had become this big of an issue with some people. haha

 

[BlackPanther]

Meteor Cancel was never mentioned in any official strategy guides but it's clearly part of the game, so by your logic then that should be a glitch as well. It was only mentioned in places like here and gamefaqs and other gaming sites but never by Nintendo. How is wavedashing a technical problem? I can guarantee you that when playing this game through the course of it's lifespan, you've airdodged into the ground to avoid one of your nub friend's smash attacks you wouldn't call it a "technical problem" back then but since it's bein used against you in a manner instead of just goin straight into the ground you go a little bit to the side and you're too lazy or don't want to put in the effort to learn it, you want to call it a glitch to sound important. It is not a technical problem to air dodge into the ground to avoid gettin hit by an attack and goin straight into the ground and to an angle is no different, it just happens to turn into somethin that can help someone. I'm still not convinced by the definition that it's a glitch. If anything I just see all the definitions that it doesn't fall under.

 

[Jafar]

Tekken? Wavedashing, sidestep cancel, backdash cancel, probably a ton of other stuff I can't even remember.

Street Fighter 3? Kara throws, maybe some other stuff.

Soul Calibur? Variable cancel, G-step, 2G bug.

Capcom vs SNK 2? Roll cancel.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2? THE ENTIRE ****ING GAME.

I cant speak of tekken. or soulcaliber

but who the hell was ROLL CANCAL a glitch? That was put in the game. Street fighter has used move cancaling in a majority of there games. Heck SF 4 had dash Cancal till they removed it in the latest build.

And MVC2 was crap. MVC on the other hand.