SBR Project: MK vs. Diddy

[CT Chia]

This poll is part of an SBR project and is strictly for informational purposes only.

Assuming the two players are of near equal skill and are playing in a best of 5 set, who do you think has the advantage in this set?

This information will help us get a community perspective on the matchup.

Please use your own local rules when making this decision; we are aware that varying rulesets can greatly affect the results of this set.

 

[alt-F4]

I think it is overall fairly even seeing as the matches on neutrals (most likely battlefield and SV) should be slightly in the diddys favor and the MK counter picks (whichever the meta knight feels comfortable with maybe delfino/halberd/brinstar/possibly yoshi's or frigate). and the last one being a bit more even as the most desirable neutrals have already been used up leaving possibly PS1 and maybe a few more depending on what the tourney has legal.

in the actual match up it seems pretty even to me diddy is able to control the stage well as long as he keeps his bananas under control, while metaknight takes it if he can get diddy in the air. the tornado is less useful due to bananas being able to break it, but it is still a good move when used sparingly and spaced properly. mk has all the tools to properly gimp the hell out of diddy if the diddy lets his recovery get to predictable, but still has to be wary of the DHGR gimp. these attributes are then affected by the stage. Diddy's ground control is amped up by neutrals, while mk can use counterpicks to affect how the ground responds to diddy's attempted control the ground(IE its harder for some to keep the bananas under control on brinstar) or how much time the diddy would be able to stay on the ground (rainbow cruise if diddy doesnt ban it... WTH ballsy decision ADHD). either of these situations would put diddy in an unfavorable position by either reducing his ground control (which would allow mk more ground based options) or increasing the time he is required to stay in the air (where mk has an easier time in approaching/punishing)

I personally feel like diddy v mk is kind of like a game of rock paper scissors whoever predicts and punishes the most times is the winner (maybe not always the most times when it comes to gimping, but you know what im saying)

keep in mind this is just my general impression of the MU i am kind of a noob overall

 

[ADHD]

It's even -_-.. but no matter how hard I can try to convince people this, they'll twist it into someone else's favor.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

Metaknight's favor. He has too many good counterpicks, ESPECIALLY in a three out of five set (we had a thread about this a little while back, 3 out of 5 sets seriously put diddy at a disadvantage because of stages).

EDIT: Yeah, neutrals of course it is even. But in a set with banned stages, and you can't cp a stage you already won on, diddy runs out of good options too quickly.

 

[Mew2King]

adhd explain how it's even. Diddy hides behind a banana I can't grab. I dash attack to pick it up you block it and **** me. I go over bananas I can avoid tripping but I'll just get faired but in either case you can just not get hit by the dairs and torando and **** me. I don't see how it's even at all. Please explain in detail how MK beats diddy.

please someone explain how this is even because I don't see it at all. Diddy can just hide behind a banana so I cannot grab where he can just block and react to everything I do. I try to dash attack to pick up the banana but it gets blocked and I get *****. I get close to pick it up he reacts and I get *****. I jump I get faired which does 15 damage. Any time Diddy throws me away even at low % he gets his perfect double banana set up where he can camp with peanuts. There is no way this MU is even if Diddy uses that strategy properly

 

[TheMike]

I'll be just quoting what I said on the MK Boards:

MK probably has a small advantage for gimping Diddy's predictable recovery. On stages like Frigate(which can be a CP for MK in a set) it becomes easier because its ledge is just horrible for Diddy. Assuming the first match'll be on a neutral stage, MK has the advantage because Neutral Stages are overrall better for MK than for Diddy. Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Pokémon Stadium 1 and Yoshi's Island = MK's stages. Final Destination and Smashville = Diddy's stages. 4x2 for MK.

Then MK'll probably CP Frigate, where things turn easier for MK. 3rd match Diddy CPs, and the process continues. So, if they are really at the same level(top of the metagame), MK has more chances to win the first match. If they CP correctly, MK has more chances to win.

Even if the rule of Stage Knock Out is in, MK still has the advantage because CPing MK is very difficult. And MK has many stages in his favor, such as RC, Delfino, Lylat and others, besides Frigate.

But it's not so easy as Diddy gives trouble for MK like hell. But this trouble is resumed on the bananas. MK, which is a character with multiple jumps, fast moves, not much lag and good hitboxes can deal with the banana. SH + Air Dodge for approach also works well.

In short, IMO MK needs to now how to deal with the banana(http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=254353) and go for gimps. Pay attention to every single movement of Diddy and punish him properly. When done right, you can either rack up good damage(juggling game) or have a easier time to go for gimps.

55:45(even) MK in a overall match-up. Assuming it's a set, MK has the advantage. I voted on "Even matchup overall" because I think we should count stages when discussing a MU.


Love you Chibo.

 

[TreK]

You're just used to have it easy. jk, do not **** me D=

What makes it MK's advantage is that he's one of the hardest characters to kill. I mean he's light, but when you can't hit him with already bad killmoves nor gimp him that doesn't matter.
Secondly, you can actually CP Diddy to a stage you're really better on, which isn't our case.

Aggressive MKs are more effective than on me, what am I doing wrong exactly ?

 

[TheMike]

What makes it MK's advantage is that he's one of the hardest characters to kill. I mean he's light

He's light but he has a great Momentum Canceling. So, yes: he's hard to kill.

 

[DFEAR]

adhd knows whats up

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

.... Be more creative in stealing the naners, it's not that difficult. Of course you'll get punished for picking it up with a dash attack, that's just plain obvious. Try doing a rising/retreating air move while very close to the ground using one of your jumps...

 

[AlphaZealot]

I don't think us Diddy's want to explain the weaknesses of our character.

 

[TheMike]

I don't think us Diddy's want to explain the weaknesses of our character.

But if you explain, people around can help with how to deal with these problems, growing Diddy's metagame more than it has already grown.

 

[6Mizu]

It's even -_-.. but no matter how hard I can try to convince people this, they'll twist it into someone else's favor.

After you've had some MU experience......It' what ADHD said.

 

[NinjaLink]

I don't think us Diddy's want to explain the weaknesses of our character.

^^


Bad enough the character isnt banned but u want help looooooooooooooooooooooooooool

 

[Yikarur]

adhd explain how it's even. Diddy hides behind a banana I can't grab. I dash attack to pick it up you block it and **** me. I go over bananas I can avoid tripping but I'll just get faired but in either case you can just not get hit by the dairs and torando and **** me. I don't see how it's even at all. Please explain in detail how MK beats diddy.

please someone explain how this is even because I don't see it at all. Diddy can just hide behind a banana so I cannot grab where he can just block and react to everything I do. I try to dash attack to pick up the banana but it gets blocked and I get *****. I get close to pick it up he reacts and I get *****. I jump I get faired which does 15 damage. Any time Diddy throws me away even at low % he gets his perfect double banana set up where he can camp with peanuts. There is no way this MU is even if Diddy uses that strategy properly

I don't have that experience in this match-up but have you ever tried to be patient and wait until the Nana in front of diddy disappears? =P

it's even imo.

 

[AvaricePanda]

I'd say it's even all around. However, I'm nowhere near a top-notch Diddy and I'm not great at analyzing match-ups.

What the overall theme seems to be is momentum. If Diddy has two bananas and is in a good stage position, it's difficult for MK to do anything because almost everything becomes punishable. If Diddy has no bananas, it's very hard for him to get space or recover. The momentum can shift very quickly as well; all it takes is smart banana snatches on MKs end or a throw/F-air/smash to get space on Diddy's end, and the zoning completely switches.

I've played matches against MKs that ended up me getting quickly gimped or taking 70% trying to recover or get bananas, and then I turned around and got 0-100% on the MK because I was able to hold on to my bananas and my position.

 

[Player-1]

I hope 55-45 MK's favor means even on this poll cuz that's what I voted for.

 

[Overswarm]

I hope 55-45 MK's favor means even on this poll cuz that's what I voted for.

That could be considered even, yes.

 

[DFEAR]

i like how real diddys voted the matchup close to even, ppl who dont know how diddy works for diddys favor and ppl who think mk is that hardcore against diddy for metas favor...i see a pattern here.

 

[Dekar173]

Teach your local MK mains how to instant throw, instant drop, z-catch, and that diddy hump isn't a guaranteed footstool kill, and then you'll learn that this match-up isn't even, it's even in the current metagame (where no one knows jack **** about this game) but give it a few months, and it won't be.

 

[Broletariat]

Haha, Dekar's right. I spent a lot of time practicing with Diddy because diddy is a savage. A direct result of that is my anti-diddy matches run a lot smoother. Not sure how that will effect the higher echelons, but I think he's on to something.

 

[Justblaze647]

Subscribing to this thread...

I have a surprising amount to say about this subject, but now is not the time...

Spoiler

Also, I wonder what kind of purpose this "project" is supposed to serve

 

[GreenFox]

Diddy is weird if you dont know to play diddy you dont know to play against him atleast thats what Im getting at.

 

[_Kamikaze]

If M2K has trouble with the match up it's like 60-40 diddy's favor


idddy is so gay

 

[FelixTrix]

m2k doesn't know how to play the matchup correctly and ADHD plays 1 billion metaknights. *shrug*

 

[AlphaZealot]

MK has to learn to actually work past a hard strategy for the first time since Brawl's release and suddenly everyone thinks its actually Diddy that is the problem.

Us Diddy's have been trying to figure out how to deal with MK for well over a year, just like every character in the game has been trying to figure out ways around MK's plethora of over powered options. Just learning not to get gimped by MK's recovery takes an immense amount of practice and time. Learning to KO an opponent <170% likewise is a huge feet. That MK is somehow thrown for a loop by a stationary and expiring 'wall' is...hilarious. I really can't believe people don't see that ADHD is winning because of the work and skill he has and that MK is losing because more often then not the exact opposite is being employed (aka 'great' players just leaning on the massive advantages that MK possesses and typically these MK players don't have to actually work on a MU in order to beat a character).

I'd basically guarantee that ADHD has played and practiced at least 50% more then any MK. In the actual Diddy-MK MU I'd be willing be bet ADHD has played at least 1,000% more then any MK has working on the same MU. ADHD, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I know in my case leading up to Pound 4 alone I spent at least 20-30 hours fighting JUST MK in the week leading up to the tournament, and I'm sure no other MK spent a similar amount of time fighting Diddy. Granted MK is popular which gave me a chance to fight like 4 different MK's for practice, but still.

 

[FelixTrix]

AlphaZealot got it pretty much spot on. no johning mk mains. ;P

 

[Albert.]

Hey m2k, just something I noticed watching Pound Grand Finals on livestream,

But you would sit in your shield for like seconds of time.

That's just bad form.

 

[Player-1]

MK has to learn to actually work past a hard strategy for the first time since Brawl's release and suddenly everyone thinks its actually Diddy that is the problem.

Us Diddy's have been trying to figure out how to deal with MK for well over a year, just like every character in the game has been trying to figure out ways around MK's plethora of over powered options. Just learning not to get gimped by MK's recovery takes an immense amount of practice and time. Learning to KO an opponent <170% likewise is a huge feet. That MK is somehow thrown for a loop by a stationary and expiring 'wall' is...hilarious. I really can't believe people don't see that ADHD is winning because of the work and skill he has and that MK is losing because more often then not the exact opposite is being employed (aka 'great' players just leaning on the massive advantages that MK possesses and typically these MK players don't have to actually work on a MU in order to beat a character).

I'd basically guarantee that ADHD has played and practiced at least 50% more then any MK. In the actual Diddy-MK MU I'd be willing be bet ADHD has played at least 1,000% more then any MK has working on the same MU. ADHD, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I know in my case leading up to Pound 4 alone I spent at least 20-30 hours fighting JUST MK in the week leading up to the tournament, and I'm sure no other MK spent a similar amount of time fighting Diddy. Granted MK is popular which gave me a chance to fight like 4 different MK's for practice, but still.

You spent 20-30 hours shooting more peanuts? You, sir, are my hero.

 

[Prawn]

I think Diddy only has the advantage on MK when the Diddy player is standing up.

 

[DFEAR]

You spent 20-30 hours shooting more peanuts? You, sir, are my hero.

nominations for best peanut shooter?

 

[Justblaze647]

please someone explain how this is even because I don't see it at all. Diddy can just hide behind a banana so I cannot grab where he can just block and react to everything I do. I try to dash attack to pick up the banana but it gets blocked and I get *****. I get close to pick it up he reacts and I get *****. I jump I get faired which does 15 damage. Any time Diddy throws me away even at low % he gets his perfect double banana set up where he can camp with peanuts. There is no way this MU is even if Diddy uses that strategy properly

With this post, I will not be explaining how or why the match-up is even, because I honestly dont believe that is the case. It's absurd to think that this match-up falls into Diddy's advantage, based off of something as variable and reversible as banana peels. Banana peels that can be snatched off the ground, or out of the air by literally any character. AZ mentioned something that made me laugh uncontrollably: It is hilarious to think that MK (A character that up until a few months ago, many people on smashboards thought he was good enough to warrant a ban

Spoiler

myself included

) could be thrown off by a stationary and expiring wall of nanerz. Now people are beginning to talk of Diddy being the best in the game. Impossible. The achievements of one player, great though they may be, DOES NOT reflect the worth of that character, nor should it affect the characters position on the tier list. For example, in melee, Chu Dat had a habit of choosing low tiers when he was feeling comfortable with an opponent. With that being said, if Chu wins against Shiek using Pichu, does Pichu deserve to jump ten spots on the tier list?

Anyway, let's cover the issue at hand. Combating Diddy with MK. Now, understand there are a number of situations which will all require different rebuttals, for the most part. Situation 1) Diddy has no nanerz out yet. It's at this time that you would want to be the aggressor. Most anyone who plays this game in a tournament setting knows that virtually all of Diddy's offense stems from his ability to get his nanerz out and control the stage. With that in mind, stay on his ***, and take his nanerz AS SOON as he pulls them out. Situation 2) Diddy gets enough space to toss out both nanerz in one sitting. Take one away and leave it on the stage, preferably near one of the edge's. The reason for this is that Diddy is a lot easier to deal with when he's only got one naner at his disposal. Situation 3) Diddy has his "perfect double naner set up," in which one is sitting in front of him, he's holding the other one, and he's camping with peanuts. If dash attack gets you punished, then don't dash attack. I know for a fact that uair, fair, and bair with MK destroys the peanuts, so those shouldn't be a problem. My suggestion would be to wait it out. After seeing that his peanuts are neither doing damage, nor forcing an approach, Diddy should switch to being offensive (which means he'll start throwing the nanerz). Any aerial will do to catch a naner, or my personal preference, which is perfect shielding and airdodging into it. There's no way this MU is even (or in Diddy's favor) if the MK has any way of dealing with the nanerz.

However, even with all of that stuff aside, MK wins because of his prowess in the air. Nanerz only REALLY hurt you when you're on the ground. MK's air game is too good to be held down by an attack that is only truly effective against grounded opponents.

 

[Padô]

Well, this is probably on MetaKnight's favor.

I watched a lot of Mk Vs. Diddy Matches online and I noticed that probably MK has one of the best tools to nulify diddy's banana fortress.

Metaknights roll is really stupid and fast which gives him a lot of options to get out of the banana pressure instead of spotdodging/shielding them which would be the safest options to the rest of the cast except the character with good roll. If the MK player got good reflexes he can Roll behind diddy while he's approaching and try a Dtilt/Ftilt/DSmash(I'd save this for killing).

I don't know why but this matchup seems like the Snake's one... If the Mk gets diddy off the stage or in the air, he will rack a up a lot of percentage with a good probabilty to have Diddy gimped by an aerial from MK that has stupid priority.

MK should be aware ONLY for Diddy's Fair that will be his main killing move, otherwise MK will powershield/dsmash any of diddy's smash attacks since MKs close combat is marvelous compared to diddy's, also MK has a great option with banana upthrow glide toss to approach, throwing it up makes diddy's game a lot more difficult since he's now working with 1 naner.

I threat MKs UpB on this matchup like on Wario's Matchup, if you do it on stage you get punished/killed to a Uair (From Diddy if it's not stale.) or get % racked with Fair (15%). Also glide attack is similar Wario punishes with Uair/Fair and Diddy with Fair too so try not to use those attack to approach too much, they'll work much better offstage.

Maybe the key of this matchup is learning how to DEAL with the banana's, throwing them at diddy just wont work he's z picking them and assuming control again. Putting the naner on a position that difficult diddy's play, for example, Delphino Plaza is just AWESOME against diddy, the field changes drastically, sometimes after changing the bananas goes under the platforms and this is very annoying to a diddy player, specially against MK, If the diddy focus on getting the banana MK has a lot of tools to punsih him while trying to do that.

Maybe it's even on FD, but on another stages is probably 55-45 which is not a big deal because almost everyone strike FD against Diddys.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

MK has to learn to actually work past a hard strategy for the first time since Brawl's release and suddenly everyone thinks its actually Diddy that is the problem.

Us Diddy's have been trying to figure out how to deal with MK for well over a year, just like every character in the game has been trying to figure out ways around MK's plethora of over powered options. Just learning not to get gimped by MK's recovery takes an immense amount of practice and time. Learning to KO an opponent <170% likewise is a huge feet. That MK is somehow thrown for a loop by a stationary and expiring 'wall' is...hilarious. I really can't believe people don't see that ADHD is winning because of the work and skill he has and that MK is losing because more often then not the exact opposite is being employed (aka 'great' players just leaning on the massive advantages that MK possesses and typically these MK players don't have to actually work on a MU in order to beat a character).

I'd basically guarantee that ADHD has played and practiced at least 50% more then any MK. In the actual Diddy-MK MU I'd be willing be bet ADHD has played at least 1,000% more then any MK has working on the same MU. ADHD, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I know in my case leading up to Pound 4 alone I spent at least 20-30 hours fighting JUST MK in the week leading up to the tournament, and I'm sure no other MK spent a similar amount of time fighting Diddy. Granted MK is popular which gave me a chance to fight like 4 different MK's for practice, but still.

With this post, I will not be explaining how or why the match-up is even, because I honestly dont believe that is the case. It's absurd to think that this match-up falls into Diddy's advantage, based off of something as variable and reversible as banana peels. Banana peels that can be snatched off the ground, or out of the air by literally any character. AZ mentioned something that made me laugh uncontrollably: It is hilarious to think that MK (A character that up until a few months ago, many people on smashboards thought he was good enough to warrant a ban

Spoiler

myself included

) could be thrown off by a stationary and expiring wall of nanerz. Now people are beginning to talk of Diddy being the best in the game. Impossible. The achievements of one player, great though they may be, DOES NOT reflect the worth of that character, nor should it affect the characters position on the tier list. For example, in melee, Chu Dat had a habit of choosing low tiers when he was feeling comfortable with an opponent. With that being said, if Chu wins against Shiek using Pichu, does Pichu deserve to jump ten spots on the tier list?

Anyway, let's cover the issue at hand. Combating Diddy with MK. Now, understand there are a number of situations which will all require different rebuttals, for the most part. Situation 1) Diddy has no nanerz out yet. It's at this time that you would want to be the aggressor. Most anyone who plays this game in a tournament setting knows that virtually all of Diddy's offense stems from his ability to get his nanerz out and control the stage. With that in mind, stay on his ***, and take his nanerz AS SOON as he pulls them out. Situation 2) Diddy gets enough space to toss out both nanerz in one sitting. Take one away and leave it on the stage, preferably near one of the edge's. The reason for this is that Diddy is a lot easier to deal with when he's only got one naner at his disposal. Situation 3) Diddy has his "perfect double naner set up," in which one is sitting in front of him, he's holding the other one, and he's camping with peanuts. If dash attack gets you punished, then don't dash attack. I know for a fact that uair, fair, and bair with MK destroys the peanuts, so those shouldn't be a problem. My suggestion would be to wait it out. After seeing that his peanuts are neither doing damage, nor forcing an approach, Diddy should switch to being offensive (which means he'll start throwing the nanerz). Any aerial will do to catch a naner, or my personal preference, which is perfect shielding and airdodging into it. There's no way this MU is even (or in Diddy's favor) if the MK has any way of dealing with the nanerz.

However, even with all of that stuff aside, MK wins because of his prowess in the air. Nanerz only REALLY hurt you when you're on the ground. MK's air game is too good to be held down by an attack that is only truly effective against grounded opponents.

these guys get it.
/thread

 

[Gnes]

MK has to learn to actually work past a hard strategy for the first time since Brawl's release and suddenly everyone thinks its actually Diddy that is the problem.

Us Diddy's have been trying to figure out how to deal with MK for well over a year, just like every character in the game has been trying to figure out ways around MK's plethora of over powered options. Just learning not to get gimped by MK's recovery takes an immense amount of practice and time. Learning to KO an opponent <170% likewise is a huge feet. That MK is somehow thrown for a loop by a stationary and expiring 'wall' is...hilarious. I really can't believe people don't see that ADHD is winning because of the work and skill he has and that MK is losing because more often then not the exact opposite is being employed (aka 'great' players just leaning on the massive advantages that MK possesses and typically these MK players don't have to actually work on a MU in order to beat a character).

I'd basically guarantee that ADHD has played and practiced at least 50% more then any MK. In the actual Diddy-MK MU I'd be willing be bet ADHD has played at least 1,000% more then any MK has working on the same MU. ADHD, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I know in my case leading up to Pound 4 alone I spent at least 20-30 hours fighting JUST MK in the week leading up to the tournament, and I'm sure no other MK spent a similar amount of time fighting Diddy. Granted MK is popular which gave me a chance to fight like 4 different MK's for practice, but still.

This was some real *** shiz AZ...im proud

 

[-Mars-]

MK struggles with characters like Diddy/Falco/Snake etc. because he has poor aerial mobility which means his approaches are fairly telegraphed. Against most characters it's not a problem but these three matchups he gets punished very hard for making mistakes and he can't do usual MK stuff like getting into poking range and just dominating.

I think he would get beaten by all 3 of these characters if their recoveries weren't so telegraphed.

 

[Dekar173]

I think he would get beaten by all 3 of these characters if their recoveries weren't so telegraphed.

But they are, so they're very punishable

 

[Albert.]

GNes's Signature is so hypnotic @_@

 

[ice_cream_man]

Yeah, her legs go really high up.... I mean wait, what. Diddy Kong works hard to beat MK, and MK freaks out cuz diddy beats him, and MK thinks he shouldn't have to work hard to beat any characters cuz he's MK, so Diddy's down B must be banned! Only solution.

 

[pass the syrup]

He's just soooo ****ed fast. And the gliding doesn't help.

My personal strategy is to pull a Tonya Harding and hire someone to hit your opponents thumb with baton right before the match.