• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Santi spills all of his knowledge.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Chip.

you know what to do
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
1,884
Location
Spokane, Washington
okay heres a question, ill let you answer this chip :B ( since he's online, no offense santi lol )

one of the fine lines i find between good and pro players is the tempo of the battle. my crew is currently bringing in a sonic, one of his problems is he will just stay in one place and almost wait for something to happen. I never find myself in that situation, but what do you find to be the best option for TL as filler/mindgame/setups, etc.,etc.,etc.

Asking because i don't want to get predictable X.X


I usually spam Nairs and Bairs when I'm far away from my opponent. Nairs into Dtilts/Jabs are amazing for installing fear into your opponent when their looking for an opening; it's hard for them to find a hole through your spacing when your doing a bunch of quick, long-ranged attacks. I also really like dash dancing and sheild canceling my dashes to keep myself comfortable in the heat of battle when my opponent is far away. It's an effective way of maintaining your pace within the battle and can setup an unpredictable pattern of moves and approach from it and makes you hard-to-read by your opponent.
 

Jman115

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
367
Location
maine
The background looks bad with that picture for some

DEAR SANTI,
I'm going to a huge tourny tomorrow, and at every tourny I go to I always get beat out by the same Lucario player. I **** his first 2 stocks, but when he's right about to lose, he'll throw me off the stage, and then stand at the edge. If I roll onto the stage he'll grab me or smash me. If I press B to get up, he'll shield grab. If I jump he'll jump up and use an aerial. If I ledge hop he'll shield grab me or just grab me if I don't attack.

What do I do? I was thinking about ledgehop to airdodge...but meh. I'm thinking of counterpicking stages like Brinstar or Norfair so I can attack from under the stage, and banning stages that he likes like Pictochat.


You have a few other options you haven't exploited yet.

1)First of all, on your way to the ledge, don't grab it. Land on stage. As you are coming to the stage take out a bomb, throw a boomerang, and shoot an arrow. That way he is busy dodging/shielding projectiles instead of focusing on attacking you.

2) If he is going to sit on the edge of the stage drop down and back and use up B to get back ON the stage. If you do it right, you will catch him in your Up b. Also doesn't hurt to take out a bomb before you up B onto the stage. The explosion can help you out in case you get into trouble.

3) To get back onto the stage, don't tap jump, b, a, or r. The best method is to drop down or back and THEN do some sort of jump. You have much more control over your character and no beginning/end lag. So if you want to air dodge onto stage it is much easier and more efficient. So in other words. Tap down on the control stick. Then tap jump and air dodge onto the stage. Or tap back, then jump and air dodge.

4) You can drop down, take out a bomb, grab the edge. Drop back, jump and throw a rang, then move towards getting on the stage with bomb ready in hand for when you may need it.

5. Drop down and jump up using your uair. If he is right on the edge then this will make him move back.


There are a ton of options. Fool around with them and figure out what works. You might also try to lure him off the edge by jumping up and hitting z so you tether grab the edge real quick and perhaps he will jump out at you in an attempt for an aerial.
 

Jman115

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
367
Location
maine
you might be able to do a dash, arrow combo. But dash attack if it hits isn't really "comboable" yes, i made that word up.
 

Psymon

Smash Sweetheart
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
502
Location
Wales
Santi, my girlfriend's just got Smash, I've introduced her to 3-stock matches on neutral stages with no items and all that sh-....stuff and she's taken a liking to TL as a main. She sucks though. Could you give a few ATs or general practices she could use to get better please?

p.s. She can edge-hog by 'hugging'....am I a good teacher or what! =D
 

Bomber7

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
5,766
Location
Louisiana
heres a thought.

Pull out bomb + dash + throw = boom!

woot woot funness mindgames

Edit: Also Happy Early Mad-Russian Christmas from your friend Bomber!
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,115
Location
Chicago, IL
To Santi I guess, I'm going to a tourney soon with a great TL (Amari in Chicago) and I need to hone my skills as Marth to beat him in a friendly or a tourney match (I really want to beat him) and I was wondering what are some common strategies you (as TL) would use against a good Marth (I know you are in Texas with Roy_R, and I'm definitely not on his level but I was just wondering about your tactics) to get past Marth's zoning capabilities and his good spacing (my spacing is fairly good, I can tip at least 60% of my moves if I'm trying and focused).

Also, what are some good/bad TL stages in this matchup? (NVM that I guess, I can check that out, but just in your opinion I guess.)

Thanks a lot.
 

iRjOn

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
1,610
Location
Drawing my imagination, in GA
To Santi I guess, I'm going to a tourney soon with a great TL (Amari in Chicago) and I need to hone my skills as Marth to beat him in a friendly or a tourney match (I really want to beat him) and I was wondering what are some common strategies you (as TL) would use against a good Marth (I know you are in Texas with Roy_R, and I'm definitely not on his level but I was just wondering about your tactics) to get past Marth's zoning capabilities and his good spacing (my spacing is fairly good, I can tip at least 60% of my moves if I'm trying and focused).

Also, what are some good/bad TL stages in this matchup? (NVM that I guess, I can check that out, but just in your opinion I guess.)

Thanks a lot.
I'm not Santi but erm against Marth what I do is get ready attemp to camp him.
With my rang, arrows and zair


Dont pick FD or SV

I say BF is your best neutral bet...

Watch out for zair, bout the same length as your sword.
Watch out for opertunities to catch bombs...or avoid them.

Marth really doesn't have much to worri about
Our projectiles might get the best of you...if you lose flow.
other than that just out beat our camping with your defence...
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,115
Location
Chicago, IL
I'm not Santi but erm against Marth what I do is get ready attemp to camp him.
With my rang, arrows and zair


Dont pick FD or SV

I say BF is your best neutral bet...

Watch out for zair, bout the same length as your sword.
Watch out for opertunities to catch bombs...or avoid them.

Marth really doesn't have much to worri about
Our projectiles might get the best of you...if you lose flow.
other than that just out beat our camping with your defence...

1. BF is Marth's best stage so I like alays CP that.

2. Yeah, Zair is obnoxious, but not too hard to get around with god aerial movement, which is easy with a character like Marth who has good aerial maneuverability.

3. Marth's sword fans all of TL's projectiles, and he can catch bombs so those aren't too big of a problem for me.

4. Yeah, momentum is sometimes a problem for me, lots of times I have a problem re-gaining momentum if my opponent is on a roll, I'll think about that since I know TL focuses on using momentum and his projectiles to change the tide of a match.

Thanks, but I think I might wait for Santi, no offense or anything.
 

Bomber7

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
5,766
Location
Louisiana
Santi wats your strategy against good luigis?.. if u have any
Use projectiles to their fullest. Especially TL's bow. When you get him off the ledge you can chain the ledge if the time calls for it and ladge guard him either by hitting him or by Z-tilting to revover you ivincibility frames. Overall you got the advantage cuz of range and speed. I'm pretty confident Bairs will work well against luigi. Zairs idk someone else could probably tell you, but you can grab him all oyu want cuz you got range.
 

iRjOn

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
1,610
Location
Drawing my imagination, in GA
1. BF is Marth's best stage so I like alays CP that.

2. Yeah, Zair is obnoxious, but not too hard to get around with god aerial movement, which is easy with a character like Marth who has good aerial maneuverability.

3. Marth's sword fans all of TL's projectiles, and he can catch bombs so those aren't too big of a problem for me.

4. Yeah, momentum is sometimes a problem for me, lots of times I have a problem re-gaining momentum if my opponent is on a roll, I'll think about that since I know TL focuses on using momentum and his projectiles to change the tide of a match.

Thanks, but I think I might wait for Santi, no offense or anything.
Yea none taken Santi does have the most match up experience.

And he'll go more in depth
Just alittle stuff I kno to help is all.
 

Dojo

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
2,978
Location
Time Chamber, Texas
To Santi I guess, I'm going to a tourney soon with a great TL (Amari in Chicago) and I need to hone my skills as Marth to beat him in a friendly or a tourney match (I really want to beat him) and I was wondering what are some common strategies you (as TL) would use against a good Marth (I know you are in Texas with Roy_R, and I'm definitely not on his level but I was just wondering about your tactics) to get past Marth's zoning capabilities and his good spacing (my spacing is fairly good, I can tip at least 60% of my moves if I'm trying and focused).

Also, what are some good/bad TL stages in this matchup? (NVM that I guess, I can check that out, but just in your opinion I guess.)

Thanks a lot.
santi here =)

Against Marth I try to bait you to do a fair. If you do the fair far away where it's not even close to my shield then I can land a Zair.
If I see the Marth zoning in trying to get to my shield then I shield grab when he double fairs or tries to pull back.
When the Marth is aware of my shield grab then that's when i get in trouble because the Marth will dodge and I'll eat a sword dance or tip Fsmash.

Also, anytime time TL hit's marth's shield you should ALWAYS get in an aerial.
If TL hit's your shield with bair,nair, etc. Your best option imo is to fair out of shield.

it's even easier if TL bairs the back of your shield because then you can Bair out of shield.

With Tl not being able to spam projectiles with your disjointed hitbox and not being able to hit your shield because of your range and your attacks out of shield, the matchup get's more one sided.

I don't like Yoshi's Island because that platform takes up almost the whole stage and when I get on a platform I can say hello to atleast 15%

BF ofcourse you know is a good choice for you.

I like playing Marth's on final.
And if I had to pick a different nuetral to play a Marth on I would say smashville.

So I don't have much on RoyR.. I can't attack his shield and he's handling my projectiles so much better.
 

Santi

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
1,931
Hey Santi

Teach Q how to fight MK

He got 3-0'ed by Overswarm in GFinals yesterday at my house tourney
Owch.
Well he should be in TX by now.
He should come play with me and Dojo for a day or two.
 

chaos11011

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
1,002
Location
MA
NNID
IDSeason
Santi im having trouble against IC and I have a tourni coming up and I dont want to take any chances against Barge.
 

chaos11011

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
1,002
Location
MA
NNID
IDSeason
I know that but i need more advice then that I know thta i should use mid range during the battle and kill nana first.But anymore ideas
 

Shadow Moth

Up in the clouds
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
6,672
Location
Hyrule
Duck if they try to hit you from the front with Ice Shot (standard-B) cause they will bounce off of your shield and you can jump out of a crouch.
 

Bomber7

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
5,766
Location
Louisiana
Santi I got a challange. Teach me how not to get 3 upped by Lee while he is playing as every single character(except sheik, whom I get 1 stocked by)
 

Bomber7

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
5,766
Location
Louisiana
lol i know. At last smash he was kind enough to friendly me. Ahhh fun matches. lol he spiked me through FD when I failed recovered with my Ivy. Talk about funny. >.> then a few weeks ago in a siungle post said thjat he liked me and redson... so i guess we got his approval as aceptable guys. still Lee too good.

also thats hard to beleve I would think you and Lee would go neck and neck Dojo. I've seen alot of your matches with Santi and I find oyur MK awsome and I'd love to be beaten by you. Almost beat DJ's MK and the LA board ranks him #10. lol that was the only match where I went against a good god tier and went god mode and almost won but got careless and lost. but ehh thats life, thats tourny life. I'll admit I'm getting better and want to fight santi and as many really good players like you as possible just for the fight and exp.
 

RjPunch

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
280
Location
Goldenrod City getting my eevee
lol i know. At last smash he was kind enough to friendly me. Ahhh fun matches. lol he spiked me through FD when I failed recovered with my Ivy. Talk about funny. >.> then a few weeks ago in a siungle post said thjat he liked me and redson... so i guess we got his approval as aceptable guys. still Lee too good.

also thats hard to beleve I would think you and Lee would go neck and neck Dojo. I've seen alot of your matches with Santi and I find oyur MK awsome and I'd love to be beaten by you. Almost beat DJ's MK and the LA board ranks him #10. lol that was the only match where I went against a good god tier and went god mode and almost won but got careless and lost. but ehh thats life, thats tourny life. I'll admit I'm getting better and want to fight santi and as many really good players like you as possible just for the fight and exp.
same here buddy
 

Bomber7

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
5,766
Location
Louisiana
lol RJ? didnt think you would travel so far from home. but yeah. Lee too good. and I cant wait for the next tourny. >.> I could be wrong with this assumption but I might fight him in an actual match next tourny. But i could just be being paranoid. lol wouldnt that be hilarius. "Bomber and Lee! Bomber and Lee TV 6, it the one Lee always wins on!" o.o *shrinks into corner* ummm.... help me gah, lee is the ultimut counter for my bombs! GAH
 

Shadow Moth

Up in the clouds
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
6,672
Location
Hyrule
K thanks do you have any more advice?
I just remembered. Not sure if you know this but part of IC's recovery is a damaging attack. I think (emphasis on think) that the part that damages is when the CPU IC is thrown up to slingshot the human further.
 

chaos11011

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
1,002
Location
MA
NNID
IDSeason
I just remembered. Not sure if you know this but part of IC's recovery is a damaging attack. I think (emphasis on think) that the part that damages is when the CPU IC is thrown up to slingshot the human further.
No i didnt know that.Thanks.What is more useful in a battle Tl bair combo or his Ken combo
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,115
Location
Chicago, IL
santi here =)

Against Marth I try to bait you to do a fair. If you do the fair far away where it's not even close to my shield then I can land a Zair.
If I see the Marth zoning in trying to get to my shield then I shield grab when he double fairs or tries to pull back.
When the Marth is aware of my shield grab then that's when i get in trouble because the Marth will dodge and I'll eat a sword dance or tip Fsmash.

Also, anytime time TL hit's marth's shield you should ALWAYS get in an aerial.
If TL hit's your shield with bair,nair, etc. Your best option imo is to fair out of shield.

it's even easier if TL bairs the back of your shield because then you can Bair out of shield.

With Tl not being able to spam projectiles with your disjointed hitbox and not being able to hit your shield because of your range and your attacks out of shield, the matchup get's more one sided.

I don't like Yoshi's Island because that platform takes up almost the whole stage and when I get on a platform I can say hello to atleast 15%

BF ofcourse you know is a good choice for you.

I like playing Marth's on final.
And if I had to pick a different nuetral to play a Marth on I would say smashville.

So I don't have much on RoyR.. I can't attack his shield and he's handling my projectiles so much better.


Thanks a lot Santi!

I'll make sure to think about how to react to these while I'm playing, this really helps!
 

iRjOn

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
1,610
Location
Drawing my imagination, in GA
K thanks do you have any more advice?
Dont pick FD and dont stand still...

If they recover low hit the MAIN IC with a projectile, while they are upbing.
And their dead.

DONT STAY STILL

zair is your best friend when they push you too far back.
Also stay away from the edge.


Dont ken combo with T.Link its WAY too situational...
What the odds of having ur opponet off-stage at 30 or 20%?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom