Santi spills all of his knowledge.

[$haDy]

Since your offering help I'll take some

I watched all your videos santi and it has really helped me,people I was losing to(winning by quite comfortable margins) I now can compete evenly,about a 50:50.

First problem is I can't seem to combo.I get an opening with a projectile and cant seem to capitalise, I get a hit but can't keep them going.My close combat is a bit sucky once people get past my projectiles I struggle, I'm improving at it but maybe you could speed up the process.Some combos or best tilts,smashes to use,etc.

I'm a dair addict tell me something to replace it,it always get me KO'd.

I seem to never have control of the stage.I'm always jumping about throwing projectiles playing to their fiddle.

Some help with KOing the opposition.

I also seem to get juggled high above outside the stage,what is the best way to recover?

It seems the best style to me to play T.link is to hit them with projectiles getting in close at a fast rate and keeps the pressure on,am I right?

I secondary bowser is that a good choice match up wise(I love to counter pick yoshis island or luigis mansion and **** xD)

I think it would be best to show you some recorded matches of mine, can I save wifi games?I have a sd card and my laptop can upload from them so how do I go about it?

Thanks in advance

 

[iRjOn]

Ok, quick question. I want to help Tinky progress so of course I need advice against PEACH and OLIMAR.

My main problems -- the turnip spam and the pikmin spam. How am I even supposed to deal with that? Should I just counterpick my Jigglypuff when the time comes that I need to fight these two?

Peach just catch her turnips or zair

Oli nair kills pikmin
your long range game> his long range game.

Shield Peachs aerials completely DONT spot dodge OR roll
She just persue you and her float is faster than rolling...

Oli zair be very careful when going for the kill...

STAY in the MIDDLE of the STAGE against him own that part knock him off stage he should come back but be careful use your zair to get inviciblity frames back his up-b spikes...

thats all I can think of atm...

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Ok, quick question. I want to help Tinky progress so of course I need advice against PEACH and OLIMAR.

My main problems -- the turnip spam and the pikmin spam. How am I even supposed to deal with that? Should I just counterpick my Jigglypuff when the time comes that I need to fight these two?

later on i might be able to play you with my olimar. Hes no where near great, but he can do ok. Im trying to get better with him. im revisiting some of my old characters. but toonlink is still my main

 

[grandra]

question against marth
what should i do if I am able to shield the start of dancing blade? whenever I verse marth I can never seem to find a time to drop shield and attack without getting hit. The normal combo he does with it is 3x foward then down, and that really takes a lot from my shield.

 

[urdailywater]

later on i might be able to play you with my olimar. Hes no where near great, but he can do ok. Im trying to get better with him. im revisiting some of my old characters. but toonlink is still my main

It would be good.
I was practicing up today after seeing Santi's TL video, and started using my zair more consistently and accurately. It helped me a lot against Weegee, and others.

 

[VietGeek]

question against marth
what should i do if I am able to shield the start of dancing blade? whenever I verse marth I can never seem to find a time to drop shield and attack without getting hit. The normal combo he does with it is 3x foward then down, and that really takes a lot from my shield.

If he always go for the last one down, when he does the 3rd hit, roll back ans buffer a slight dash back so the sword doesn't touch you. Now you're free to punish. a tether grab should work, or a SH dair if you're quick.

 

[clowsui]

Hey Santi I need help fighting QUIVO.

This character is a monster. He has ridiculous spacing tools, crazy bomb and arrows that mess me up, and mixups that are better than Overswarm, considered top tier in my area.

Halp?


For the people who don't get it, it's a joke.

 

[Santi]

Oh Wow.
I hope I covered everthing. Tell me if I missed something. I just got off work and got a lot of homework to do so sorry if I rush.

Hmmm kool little thread Santi man...

I just got one question for ya how do you repeatedly teather hog to return inviclbility frames ya know?

I do like down diagnol away on my control stick ( Worded that too weird lol) and then push Z then push up on my control stick. I do it faster that way and when I try pushing Z twice sometimes I do it more than needed and do my get up animation from the ledge.

My questions are geared toward Olimar and Sonic.
Ill start with Sonic. My friend has begun maining Sonic. He is surprisingly good with him, definitely not nearly as bad a character as I had once heard, not great but definitely not bad. The big thing I struggle with is when he is rolling around back and forth on the ground. He does it quick and it lasts a long time and this problem tends to occur on final destination. If I jump in the air, I usually land before it is done and he has an opportunity to hit me. One defense I found was if i am in the right position, instead of jumping over him I can bair him but is there an easier method? Sometimes I don't have enough time to bair and end up just having to jump. I have only played him a few times because he just picked him up and haven't had time to experiment but what moves have priority? Can you effectively shield it and attack after he hits your shield? OR is it a shield eating attack?
I short hop zair when they charge it and if they release it before I get there then I shield it, then drop my shield and bair them.

With Olimar I just ask what is the best strategy to face one? I win probably 55 - 45 against his olimar. His pikmin destroy my projectiles. I find that bombs are my best strategy as they launch him in the air where I have the upper hand. I also find the short hopping and throwing arrows/rangs tends to be pretty effective as it is harder for him to block them at those angles. Once I get him off the stage he is relatively easy to gimp. Approaching him is near impossible without having hit him with a rang or bomb first. His pikmin seem to stop me otherwise. Is there anything else I can do to gain the upperhand?

Nair> Pikmin.
If they short hop throw pikmin you can hit them with a nair everytime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzTMWLsMCIk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laobiJsw2uk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmJLaiC5KTE

Arrows actually work well too.
I don't do bombs.
I just approach with Nair then fall back with arrow or jump again.

Good thread, Santi.

I wish I had videos of some matchups, but all I have are replays against computers. :\

Anyway, on your vid you do several of those upsmash-into-bomb kills. What's the best way to set those up, and how good are they for actual practical play?

Get lucky lol
=)
They aren't that practical.

I have a question for Santi or other Toon Link mains... how often should I use Toon Link's grabs. I got KOed quite a few times from missing a grab on my opponent. Is Toon Link's grab game worth the risk?

I grab when the opponent knows that I want to upsmash ha.
I try not to grab when I'm really high percent.
Shieldgrabs is how I usually get most of my grabs.

Ok, quick question. I want to help Tinky progress so of course I need advice against PEACH and OLIMAR.

My main problems -- the turnip spam and the pikmin spam. How am I even supposed to deal with that? Should I just counterpick my Jigglypuff when the time comes that I need to fight these two?

Nair ***** pikmin and if they get on me then I just nair again.
Arrows also stop them.

Besides Z-air to grab. Is there any way to use your projectiles to make sure you do not miss a grab?

Get 4th socket.
Drop bomb on their shield...fall and grab.

ha jk
=)
Returning boomerang can work like Sasuke said

um what is the best way to fight samus

Dodge his Zair and get in her face and play that midrange.
Anything in particular giving you trouble?

Since your offering help I'll take some

I watched all your videos santi and it has really helped me,people I was losing to(winning by quite comfortable margins) I now can compete evenly,about a 50:50.

First problem is I can't seem to combo.I get an opening with a projectile and cant seem to capitalise, I get a hit but can't keep them going.My close combat is a bit sucky once people get past my projectiles I struggle, I'm improving at it but maybe you could speed up the process.Some combos or best tilts,smashes to use,etc.

I'm a dair addict tell me something to replace it,it always get me KO'd.

I seem to never have control of the stage.I'm always jumping about throwing projectiles playing to their fiddle.

Some help with KOing the opposition.

I also seem to get juggled high above outside the stage,what is the best way to recover?

It seems the best style to me to play T.link is to hit them with projectiles getting in close at a fast rate and keeps the pressure on,am I right?

I secondary bowser is that a good choice match up wise(I love to counter pick yoshis island or luigis mansion and **** xD)

I think it would be best to show you some recorded matches of mine, can I save wifi games?I have a sd card and my laptop can upload from them so how do I go about it?

Thanks in advance

I dont combo much either lol.
The players I play don't let me juggle them, so I play more of a hit and run type game.
Don't dair =)
You can bair them for a stage spike? Or fair? Or dair on the end of the ledge so you don't die if you miss.

Bowser is not a good choice matchup wise in my opinion.

Go ahead. Save some matches and i would be happy to look them over and help with anything.

question against marth
what should i do if I am able to shield the start of dancing blade? whenever I verse marth I can never seem to find a time to drop shield and attack without getting hit. The normal combo he does with it is 3x foward then down, and that really takes a lot from my shield.

Roll behind them?

Actually, listen to Viet :D

Hey Santi I need help fighting QUIVO.

This character is a monster. He has ridiculous spacing tools, crazy bomb and arrows that mess me up, and mixups that are better than Overswarm, considered top tier in my area.

Halp?


For the people who don't get it, it's a joke.

There's no beating Quivo :D




Hope I got everything.
Sorry for typos.

 

[Hylian]

Santi what character do you like playing against the least? What is TL's worst match-up do you think?

Please don't try to mindgame me I'm just curious ;_; lol.

 

[Santi]

Santi what character do you like playing against the least? What is TL's worst match-up do you think?

Please don't try to mindgame me I'm just curious ;_; lol.

I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE FALCOS!
and i hate nana lol
=) She's gay.

Marth's are aslo on the list as one of my least favorites.


Worst matchup.. hmm. TL can go close with a lot of characters...

Worst matchup...MK/Falco/ maybe maybe Marth.

Meta-obvious
Falco- Falco can spam long range and we can't. Chaingrab. And that Reflector is dumb :D

Marth- His range pwns our little sword and his disjointed hitbox beats are projectiles.

EDIT : 11:11 heheeh

 

[DCStyle]

Alright, I just came home from playing a bit with friends.

I was wondering if there were any combos one could pull by grabbing, attacking, and letting them go without throwing?

I tried some and the only thing I could pull off was an arrow...

o.O

Edit: Also, I was playing against a falco...who kept freaking reflecting every one of my projectiles.

 

[iRjOn]

Thanks Santi needed that info
Guy above me you can grab release to zair on some characters.

And Santi got another question lol what do you think of me changing my name to Mr. bunnEi?

 

[Jman115]

What do you guys use as secondaries? I think I finally have a pretty good TL. Ill know more about how good I am after the next 2 weekends. I have 2 tourneys Ill be attending/hosting that should be 30+ people each.
My biggest worry is a secondary. I hate the idea of a secondary but with brawl it seems necessary. Aside form MK who I refuse to learn, who makes a good secondary?

I have been practicing with GnW, a little with Marth, and Peach. Who best compliments TL as a secondary, and do you think Mario or Lucario would work well with TL on a Team?

 

[QUIVO]

I honestly don't think TL needs a secondary.

Anyway, the best one for you would probably be GaW

 

[TLMSheikant]

Agree with Quivo, TL is a character that can hold its own without secondaries cause he really doesnt have any **** matchups. Not counting mk lol.

Santi- is the vietg combo escapable? Ive been doing it for a while now and i sometimes miss. i dont know if its bad timing or if its not an actual combo. Also, what do u feel is TL's best stage overall. I think TL's best stage is delfino plaza but thats my opinion i want urs.

 

[TLMarth]

This thread is like EL's chat thread (Emblem Lord)
This kind of thread becomes a new Q&A thread as more and more people decide to answer, just that the person who made it participates specially.

Besides Z-air to grab. Is there any way to use your projectiles to make sure you do not miss a grab?

It's all mindgames. lol a cliche
you watch for your opponent's reactions to your projectiles. Does he shield? Does he roll? Does he airdodge? Does he sidestep? In cases where he shields, you can grab him, though not guaranteed. Don't try it more than once unless you're sure.
Try to force him into a situation where shield is most profitable. This I think is by using arrows. Someone help me here!

Since your offering help I'll take some

I watched all your videos santi and it has really helped me,people I was losing to(winning by quite comfortable margins) I now can compete evenly,about a 50:50.

First problem is I can't seem to combo.I get an opening with a projectile and cant seem to capitalise, I get a hit but can't keep them going.My close combat is a bit sucky once people get past my projectiles I struggle, I'm improving at it but maybe you could speed up the process.Some combos or best tilts,smashes to use,etc. If you're camping, I say use nair to get people out of your face; it's quick, you can retreat, you can arrow after it. If you want combos, don't look for them over actively but see when the opening comes, or try to force it. If you can't hit with a close up attack, don't go for it. TL is sort of hit and run.
If you really want to follow projectiles with combos for constant damage you have to use quick succession attacks.


WAIT.
I'm really unsure what you mean by 'I get an opening with a projectile'.

I'm a dair addict tell me something to replace it,it always get me KO'd.

Bomb them, or move sideways and boomerang, or move sideways and aerial, airdodge.

I seem to never have control of the stage.I'm always jumping about throwing projectiles playing to their fiddle.

HIT AND RUNNNN
lol but it is good to have control.
By having control of the stage, do you (A) mean having your opponent near the edge, or do you (B) mean being able to rest for a bit?

Some help with KOing the opposition.

I also seem to get juggled high above outside the stage,what is the best way to recover?

It seems the best style to me to play T.link is to hit them with projectiles getting in close at a fast rate and keeps the pressure on,am I right?

Agreed that you need to stop your opponent from being stable, if you can then do it! But if not practice and in the meantime hit and run

I secondary bowser is that a good choice match up wise(I love to counter pick yoshis island or luigis mansion and **** xD)

I think it would be best to show you some recorded matches of mine, can I save wifi games?I have a sd card and my laptop can upload from them so how do I go about it?

Thanks in advance

 

[TLMarth]

This thread is like EL's chat thread (Emblem Lord)
This kind of thread becomes a new Q&A thread as more and more people decide to answer, just that the person who made it participates specially.

Besides Z-air to grab. Is there any way to use your projectiles to make sure you do not miss a grab?

It's all mindgames. lol a cliche
you watch for your opponent's reactions to your projectiles. Does he shield? Does he roll? Does he airdodge? Does he sidestep? In cases where he shields, you can grab him, though not guaranteed. Don't try it more than once unless you're sure.
Try to force him into a situation where shield is most profitable. This I think is by using arrows. Someone help me here!

Since your offering help I'll take some

I watched all your videos santi and it has really helped me,people I was losing to(winning by quite comfortable margins) I now can compete evenly,about a 50:50.

First problem is I can't seem to combo.I get an opening with a projectile and cant seem to capitalise, I get a hit but can't keep them going.My close combat is a bit sucky once people get past my projectiles I struggle, I'm improving at it but maybe you could speed up the process.Some combos or best tilts,smashes to use,etc. If you're camping, I say use nair to get people out of your face; it's quick, you can retreat, you can arrow after it. If you want combos, don't look for them over actively but see when the opening comes, or try to force it. If you can't hit with a close up attack, don't go for it. TL is sort of hit and run.
If you really want to follow projectiles with combos for constant damage you have to use quick succession attacks.


WAIT.
I'm really unsure what you mean by 'I get an opening with a projectile'.

I'm a dair addict tell me something to replace it,it always get me KO'd.

Bomb them, or move sideways and boomerang, or move sideways and aerial, airdodge.

I seem to never have control of the stage.I'm always jumping about throwing projectiles playing to their fiddle.

HIT AND RUNNNN
lol but it is good to have control.
By having control of the stage, do you (A) mean having your opponent near the edge, or do you (B) mean being able to rest for a bit?

Some help with KOing the opposition.

I also seem to get juggled high above outside the stage,what is the best way to recover?

It seems the best style to me to play T.link is to hit them with projectiles getting in close at a fast rate and keeps the pressure on,am I right?

Agreed that you need to stop your opponent from being stable, if you can then do it! But if not practice and in the meantime hit and run

I secondary bowser is that a good choice match up wise(I love to counter pick yoshis island or luigis mansion and **** xD)

I think it would be best to show you some recorded matches of mine, can I save wifi games?I have a sd card and my laptop can upload from them so how do I go about it?

Thanks in advance

TLMS

I think VietG combo is best at low percentages, depends on character, but we need to do some testing with someone who is good at DI.

 

[iRjOn]

TLMarth wtf?
Y post the same thing twice?

 

[TLMSheikant]

TLMarth double posted lol. I know its at low percents but they still sometimes get out of it. >__>

 

[iRjOn]

Whats the Vietg combo?
Did our VG make it?

 

[TLMSheikant]

VietG combo is zair>bomb throw at them>hyphen smash. It only works on %s where the bomb wont pop them too high. But i prefer to do nair instead of usmash for safety reasons lol. And because my friends always evade it. >__>

 

[TheJerm]

Well, I lost to DMG and Melee1 at the last hobo. I'm sure you've played at least one of them, since we play generally the same people. Any tips?? DMG is wario, and melee1 is ice climbers. Both of them are really good, for people who dont know them. Alsooo, falco, my worst enemy, anyone Please help!!! D:

I still have my vids up, from a while back vs falco.. although I've changed a bit since then, I still need help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYrtCJklzVo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52klzgNa8NA
And, my last question.. you coming to houston this month to play me and quivo? or for the oni con. Since you skipped out last week. Better had placed high! xD

 

[iRjOn]

In a tournament BAN FD against Falco ban it! CP stages with platforms DI is important erm...
Have a bomb at hand to stop their chaingrab.
And that all I got atm...

 

[Jman115]

sweet, I hate secondaries. Now I am even happier that I use toon link.

 

[TheJerm]

I have a secondary, but havnt used him in tournies yet.He's bee my second since melee, and brought him over with me.

 

[TLMarth]

TLMarth wtf?
Y post the same thing twice?

Oops.

Whats the Vietg combo?
Did our VG make it?

It's zair-> bomb -> Up smash

 

[iRjOn]

I have a secondary, but havnt used him in tournies yet.He's bee my second since melee, and brought him over with me.

Marth i say its marth hands down am i right?

 

[TheJerm]

Nooo, its white outfitted Marth. Close though buddy xD

lol, link was my main, marth was my second.

 

[Bomber7]

*gets on hands and knees and begs* O great Santi I'm a poor n00b who cant TL worth s*** please let me be your apprentice.

Stats: (10 being the best)
Killing ability- 3
combo ability- 2
predictability(which is bad)-10
projectiles- 8
Zair ability - fail (theres no other nuber to describe it)
Bair - 3
grabbing- 4

I need serius help. plz help.

>.> btw do we have a combo effectivness guid? I'd like to know what moves/combos work agasint what characters. (cuz YES HEIGHT makes a difference)

with love,
Bomber(BR's only TL player... who isn't all that great ^^)

 

[TLMSheikant]

The jerm- white marth is mine as is blue TL. nuff said.

 

[TheJerm]

Trust me, there's not so great toon links out there. But dont put yourself down. I can try to help you with some stuff. Like, combo's.. dont really go for them, unless you catch them in a good bair combo, then continue it. But that wont happen much. Save up smash for kills, and maybe another smash of your choice. Just practice zair, it'll come really natural after a while.

*Just saw TLM's post*.. psshh, I called him first!

 

[iRjOn]

hey jerm you tried to mind game me >_>...

i'll ken combo you >.>

 

[TLMSheikant]

Bomber- TL w/o zair is not a Toon Link so yeah practice that then focus on other stuff like follow ups after the zair and stuff. Some good followups i like to do are: Zair to grab (can get predictable), zair to nair, AD zair to bomb throw to nair and zair to usmash at killing percents.

 

[Bomber7]

I mainly need some TL drill sargent to get my lazy butt into gear. I keep almost beating some of the best guys in LA but almost just isnt gona cut it anymore. I'm willing to go through a TL bootcamp if I have to. cuz talking about it online has not solved my problems he he much like the psycologist visits. XD

Edit: Like at last smash the #2 or 3 guy who was in my pool used the word "scary" when saying how good my TL game was and he wasnt sandbagging (btw he used snake) but come on seriously then when it came down to brakets I almost beat the #7 guy who uses D3 and then in losers braket almost beat the #10 guy who uses MK which is the so far best MK game I've ever had and can get >.>

 

[TheJerm]

Bomber- TL w/o zair is not a Toon Link so yeah practice that then focus on other stuff like follow ups after the zair and stuff. Some good followups i like to do are: Zair to grab (can get predictable), zair to nair, AD zair to bomb throw to nair and zair to usmash at killing percents.

You can still be a good toon link without zair.

 

[TLMSheikant]

But not as much as with zair i mean.

 

[Bomber7]

lol ok so maybe making a big deal about Zair wasnt a good idea but i do need some help. I'm being serious. I'll accept any help as possible but I'm afraid my PT game is going down the tubes and TL is pulling his weight and I'm mad about that. *sigh* it's hard having two mains. But its worth it.

 

[Jman115]

Toon link doesn't need zair. I don't use it often, it just isn't my style and I do just fine. I have been practicing it a but, but my friends are pretty **** good about preventing "combos" out of zair so I find other ways to win. Don't get me wrong, I still like zair but I don't spam it like a lot of people tend to.

 

[Bomber7]

i dont spam Z air I just started to learn to do it today(not literally I know how to do it. I just actually started to try and blend it in with my fighting game) the only thing I like to spam are bombs and I'm darn proud of that. I jjust need ot get organised and get back to my window of opportunity ways and stop being predictable. It's just TL's a lil hard to control(as in like short hopping for example) otherwise im fine...especially with the random mid air glides i perform when i throw my boomberaang or shoot my bow.

 

[Corpsecreate]

The best thing about bombs is their ability to set up for a kill. They have the longest hitstun out of any of Toon Links move and their trajectory is almost directly upwards (changes depending on their DI). A good setup for a kill is to hit them with a bomb from above and then KO them with an undiminished air attack.