Official Samus

[Xygonn]

I found a cool use for super missile. If they role behind you and send a super missile after them it will hit them at the tail of their role animation. The timing is super forgiving and I haven't missed yet. For glory, but I think it may be guaranteed. Don't want to make a thread for it yet because I think I may be fooling myself. Any input?

This can work, buuuuuut, there are better roll punishes in general if you read it in time for a super missile.

 

[NamelessHunter]

This can work, buuuuuut, there are better roll punishes in general if you read it in time for a super missile.

I usually use f smash. The kb angle for super missile is really good though, so I can see using it at low percents to chain into something, or even just making a Lil Mac go airborne.

Mostly it's just the style points though.

 

[Meta_X]

I know this is completely random but

WHY IS SAMUS SO FUN AAAAAAAAAAGH

 

[Crystanium]

I know this is completely random but

WHY IS SAMUS SO FUN AAAAAAAAAAGH

ONLY YOU CAN ANSWER THAT YOURSELF AAAAAAAAAAGH

 

[Ffamran]

Been meaning to ask 2 things: One, if Samus had multiple jumps like in 2D Metroid games -- within in reason of course and not her infinite jumps in those games -- how would it affect her? Two, if Screw Attack could be used multiple times -- within reason of course -- like in 2D Metroid games and also like in the 3D ones -- I'm not sure about Other M; still gotta play that -- and maybe allowed her to wall jump during Screw Attack like in the Prime games and how that would affect her.

Reason I ask was that Samus was capable of jumping multiple times in her games which the developers probably knew about. Yes, I know game balance has to do things like Screw Attack can't instantly kill everyone like in her games, but multiple jumps seem like a Samus thing if they based her on the old games while multiple Screw Attacks would make sense since you couldn't jump more than 2 times in the Prime games without Screw Attack. Either option is probably going to cost her something like multiple jumps means she won't be able to instantly rise up with her second jump to catch some and multiple Screw Attacks will probably cost her a move that has good knockback not to mention vertical movement. At worst, multiple Screw Attacks would be like Flush in DMC4 -- jumping while covering yourself in a hitbox -- and that they would only serve as to make her recovery even trickier.

I'd rather have your thoughts, though, since I'm not knowledgeable on Samus unlike everyone else on these boards.

 

[meleebrawler]

Been meaning to ask 2 things: One, if Samus had multiple jumps like in 2D Metroid games -- within in reason of course and not her infinite jumps in those games -- how would it affect her? Two, if Screw Attack could be used multiple times -- within reason of course -- like in 2D Metroid games and also like in the 3D ones -- I'm not sure about Other M; still gotta play that -- and maybe allowed her to wall jump during Screw Attack like in the Prime games and how that would affect her.

Reason I ask was that Samus was capable of jumping multiple times in her games which the developers probably knew about. Yes, I know game balance has to do things like Screw Attack can't instantly kill everyone like in her games, but multiple jumps seem like a Samus thing if they based her on the old games while multiple Screw Attacks would make sense since you couldn't jump more than 2 times in the Prime games without Screw Attack. Either option is probably going to cost her something like multiple jumps means she won't be able to instantly rise up with her second jump to catch some and multiple Screw Attacks will probably cost her a move that has good knockback not to mention vertical movement. At worst, multiple Screw Attacks would be like Flush in DMC4 -- jumping while covering yourself in a hitbox -- and that they would only serve as to make her recovery even trickier.

I'd rather have your thoughts, though, since I'm not knowledgeable on Samus unlike everyone else on these boards.

Just play around with the Screw Attack item and see for yourself.

 

[Vyrnx]

I've been wondering about Samus's juggling game a lot recently.

What can Samus do if the opponent air dodges her uair? For example, Fox can uair and if the opponent air dodges, utilt to either combo to uair or extend the uair-->opponent air dodges-->utilt setup. I realize Samus more than likely doesn't have nearly the same juggling options as Fox for multiple reasons, but I do wonder if there is anything we can really do if the opponent air dodges our uair.

Or does Samus's fall speed and bad utilt for juggling force her to play anti landing from the ground and either get grabs or dash attacks/take stage control? Samus has a high FJ and fast uair startup, so it seems like we can reasonably force opponents to air dodge, but I'm not sure we can actually do anything if the opponent air dodges, in which case we would be forfeiting stage control and should just stay grounded. On characters even floatier than Samus we can potentially get a falling uair, but falling uair on aerial opponents is very weak.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Does anybody know Samus's SH Air Time in frames? On KuroganeHammer, it's just got a ? there, which I assume is due to her fall speed increases in 1.1.5.

Even if nobody knows this, what was it before 1.1.5? Either of these would really help me out with something.

KuroganeHammer - would you be able to help here?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Someone stole my capture card cord so I am useless atm until I get another

 

[KayJay]

I've been wondering about Samus's juggling game a lot recently.

What can Samus do if the opponent air dodges her uair? For example, Fox can uair and if the opponent air dodges, utilt to either combo to uair or extend the uair-->opponent air dodges-->utilt setup. I realize Samus more than likely doesn't have nearly the same juggling options as Fox for multiple reasons, but I do wonder if there is anything we can really do if the opponent air dodges our uair.

Or does Samus's fall speed and bad utilt for juggling force her to play anti landing from the ground and either get grabs or dash attacks/take stage control? Samus has a high FJ and fast uair startup, so it seems like we can reasonably force opponents to air dodge, but I'm not sure we can actually do anything if the opponent air dodges, in which case we would be forfeiting stage control and should just stay grounded. On characters even floatier than Samus we can potentially get a falling uair, but falling uair on aerial opponents is very weak.

Frame perfect SH U-Air FF into D-Tilt is very strict but it works, if they airdodge U-Air, D-Tilt can catch them slightly before landing.

 

[Afro Smash]

SH is 43 frames, FH is 67 frames KuroganeHammer Bowserboy3

 

[Bowserboy3]

SH is 43 frames, FH is 67 frames KuroganeHammer Bowserboy3

This is for 1.1.5, after her attribute increases right?

 

[Afro Smash]

This is for 1.1.5, after her attribute increases right?

Yeah, so now we're just one frame off SH Double Up Air and FH Fair > Bair ;-;

 

[DungeonMaster]

I'm not sure the frame data tells the whole story, if you look at say Rosa who has fairly close physics to Samus and an up-air with very similar frame data, she's well known for her aerial juggle and airdodge frame traps but Samus definitely is not.
The percentages at which juggling is best are the low range, so when a speedy single hit up-air character like fox or cloud juggle well it's because they don't have actual aerial combos (certain specific fast-falling targets and platforms aside).
Once the percents rise it's just easier and easier to avoid. We have straight up aerial combos in the range where juggling is best, and they do tons of damage, so just a few and they're already past significant juggling opportunity.
Juggling I feel only works at mid to low level play, most skilled players will retreat to the ledge or use their character specific abilities to evade and regain their footing.
It's not a terribly effective strategy, in general in this particular game even for the characters best suited to it. Landing is where the weakness is focused.
It's relatively easy to frustrate and shutdown juggle attempts even by the characters most suited to it. My 2 cents.

KuroganeHammer that's pretty low to steal a capture card. Australia looking rough!

 

[Vyrnx]

Idk. Fox and Rosa have ridiculous juggling, Fox in particular. Utilt/uair is one of the main reasons he is top tier.

Samus's pivot grab and dash attack are good enough at catching landings that we should probably just stay grounded though. And if the opponent goes to the ledge, we have decent ledge coverage with usmash/up b, etc.

 

[Crystanium]

I think I'm giving up Samus for a more viable character.

 

[DungeonMaster]

@Dryn sounds like you're no longer having fun - it's a game, ultimately, unless you're interested in trying to make a go at professional, you should be having fun. Aside from a handful of other characters I personally find the rest of the cast boring!

 

[Crystanium]

@Dryn sounds like you're no longer having fun - it's a game, ultimately, unless you're interested in trying to make a go at professional, you should be having fun. Aside from a handful of other characters I personally find the rest of the cast boring!

I admit, it's difficult dropping Samus because I'm most familiar with her. I tried other character last night, and I just don't feel it. It's going to take time for me to learn to use Zamus if I decide to use her instead. Since I only have a month in with Samus, I think it's best to use someone else instead of wasting time.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I admit, it's difficult dropping Samus because I'm most familiar with her. I tried other character last night, and I just don't feel it. It's going to take time for me to learn to use Zamus if I decide to use her instead. Since I only have a month in with Samus, I think it's best to use someone else instead of wasting time.

I'll just leave you with this.

Using who you like > Using who is best

Trust me on this one. Regardless of how good the character is, if you enjoy another character more, you WILL learn a lot more, as not only will you be more enthusiastic to find new things out, but also enjoy the learning experience. If you don't enjoy the character, you most likely won't get very far (hence why ZeRo doesn't use Bayonetta for example; he just doesn't enjoy her playstyle).

Once upon a time, I used to consider Rosalina and Sheik my two characters. I have an unbreakable love for Rosalina, so the fact she's a good character is a huge bonus for me. However, while I "like" Sheik, I don't feel any real connection to the character. Marth is undoubtedly my true Smash character; my main in all games he's been in up to now, and I love him to bits. I never realy used him much in the beginning, because he wasn't as good as characters like Sheik. I made the decision to switch Sheik for Marth once more on the Wii U release, yet, despite him being clearly worse than Sheik, I just felt a whole lot better using him. I didn't feel like I was forcing myself into using a character, and I enjoyed the game a whole lot more. I have performed far better at tournaments using these two characters than I did using Rosalina and Sheik, if only because I feel more determined to win, and push myself, because I know the character, and love him.

I think this is part of the reason why I am absolutely a** with characters Olimar, Villager, and Dedede. I honestly have no connection to them, and can't bring myself to like them as fighters, or characters. Sure, I respect their existence, but I just can't connect with them.

My point is, don't force yourself to use a "more viable" character. Sure, if you think it will help you, go ahead. But trust your heart, and use who you enjoy most, and you'll most likely learn a whole lot more.

You also don't have to completely abandon characters. I almost strictly limit my tournament characters to Rosalina, Marth, and sometimes ZSS. However, I still play lots of characters I like. I merely focus on two or three for tournament.

Whatever your choice, I wish you luck. I picked ZSS up a month or so before her changes in 1.1.5, and haven't looked back since. I really like Samus as a character, so I feel pride in being at least somewhat threatening with them both.

 

[Crystanium]

You're right, Bowserboy3. I think for now I'm going to practice with ZSS for now, but not drop Samus. Right now, I feel I perform better with Samus, but I think that using ZSS will help me learn to transfer her b-airs and n-airs over to Samus in a way that I'll use those more safely. Samus just seems punishable if you use those two on stage in the wrong way. Especially n-air.

 

[Xygonn]

I've been wondering about Samus's juggling game a lot recently.

What can Samus do if the opponent air dodges her uair? For example, Fox can uair and if the opponent air dodges, utilt to either combo to uair or extend the uair-->opponent air dodges-->utilt setup. I realize Samus more than likely doesn't have nearly the same juggling options as Fox for multiple reasons, but I do wonder if there is anything we can really do if the opponent air dodges our uair.

Or does Samus's fall speed and bad utilt for juggling force her to play anti landing from the ground and either get grabs or dash attacks/take stage control? Samus has a high FJ and fast uair startup, so it seems like we can reasonably force opponents to air dodge, but I'm not sure we can actually do anything if the opponent air dodges, in which case we would be forfeiting stage control and should just stay grounded. On characters even floatier than Samus we can potentially get a falling uair, but falling uair on aerial opponents is very weak.

It's risky but you can upb.

 

[HoSmash4]

what r samuses weaknesses

 

[DungeonMaster]

HoSmash4
The biggest weakness:
Hurtbox size vs. hitbox. Large lingering hitboxes are difficult to attack into, without a lot of experience Samus will often get hit rather than class/connect. Characters that can play by throwing out tons of hitboxes, fox, rosa, mario etc... just hitting buttons can be a headache.
It takes a lot of skill and experience and precision to know how to attack into these hitboxes and to know when your best option is purely defensive.

Other weaknesses:
A 60 frame basic projectile means she cannot fight a standing projectile war with true zoners (who all have 45 frame projectiles). Homing missiles are the worst projectile in the game.
Slowest grab startup in the game - 16 frames. It means Samus basically can't shield grab, it requires a lot of skill and knowledge to know when it's going to be effective.
The endlag on grab has been improved, it could be improved more but it's gone from insane to unbearable to I-can-sort-of-live-with-it. Samus doesn't use her grab at all like the rest of the cast.
Limited landing options, D-air is too slow and the hutbox too close to hitbox to win vs. 95% of juggling options. Again, it takes skill and knowledge with timings, bomb momentum shift mixups, when to throw u-air, n-air, b-air, d-air as a landing option and when you should just retreat to the edge.

The current matchup chart reflects these basic problems, and most of the matchup chart discussion and differences in opinion are based around what ordering you put the weaknesses.

 

[luke_atyeo]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for

I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.

 

[Xygonn]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for


I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.

Just so you don't get the same stuff over and over, I'm going to put it in this thread.

1) Uair is pretty misunderstood by many people. It's a pretty good landing option and leads to KO confirms, e.g. jab -> fsmash (true) and upb at high percents. Sometimes you hear commenters say, oh samus needs a raw bair, cs, or fsmash. not true. Also ftilt -> CS tech chase is a pretty good KO confirm that covers basically everything except tech in.
2) Upb has jank kills. The looping hitboxes of grounded upb can kill with high rage at 0% it's fixed knockback. Aerial upb can stage spike on the first three looping hits or lead to guarunteed combos, bair, nair, uair, upb, footstool (not dair unfortunately).
3) If samus is camping a high platform in shield with the opponent at higher percents, the samus player is probably fishing for upb OOS KO. Also grounded upb can catch all ledge hangs.
4) Tether properties. I think these are pretty well known, but you can't 2 frame a tether, and thether trumps are faster than normal trumps by a lot. So bair out of tether trump is guarunteed, so is reverse CS. Dair will hit, but is usually sour spot.
5) Samus can fair from ledge and not suffer landing lag. If samus gets landing lag from fair, it means they screwed up the input, not that they were necessarily dumb.
6) Samus has ladders and cool locks on platform stages at low percents, but these are pretty well known at this point, still impressive to see. If you see samus get a grab at low percent under a platform, saying something like "Samus got the grab, they are probably going for a ladder or a lock" would be super legit commentary.

 

[Sir Lancelot]

I was just watching Danish vs. Hooded, and I noticed a weird interaction by the ledge that I was curious about. Samus seemed to use down-B, then dair onto the ledge and completely negate the dair's lag into a jump. You can't edge cancel normals, so why did this happen?

https://youtu.be/q18GJ9NPN44?t=505

 

[Meta_X]

I was just watching Danish vs. Hooded, and I noticed a weird interaction by the ledge that I was curious about. Samus seemed to use down-B, then dair onto the ledge and completely negate the dair's lag into a jump. You can't edge cancel normals, so why did this happen?

https://youtu.be/q18GJ9NPN44?t=505

You know how if you drop a bomb then are near it when it goes off, Samus will turn into a morph ball and bounce? Samus getting hit by her own bomb can cancel out the endlag of her aerials. For example, SH fair normally gives you landing lag, but if you drop a bomb beforehand and end a SH fair over it (without adding extra hitlag by hitting anyone), then Samus will get hit by her bomb (which automatically turns her into morph ball and propels her) instead of landing with the usual lag. This works with all her aerials, and it seems it can actually cancel them out if you time it right (I found this easiest to test with nair and dair). I haven't tested it out a whole lot but it seems it only works with grounded morph balls and aerial attacks.

So what we see here is simply Danish getting hit by his own bomb explosion, which cancels out his landing dair. You can see him turn into a morph ball out of it. I'm not sure if it was all on purpose but assuming it was, he probably did it so he could try to dair Ryu's recovery but bounce away halfway through the attack so his opponent wouldn't be able to punish it.

 

[DungeonMaster]

This needs to go here, never thought I would see the day:
https://twitter.com/MVG_Salem/status/865686695949332484

A pack of top ranked players now think Samus is high tier.
2.5 years of patches and meta.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I don't know if this is the right place, but two new Metroid games finally get announced ending the 2nd dark age of the franchise and there is literally no one here talking about it. I'm dissapointed you guys, let's see more talk about it!

 

[meleebrawler]

As if to cap off Samus's rise in the meta. But in fairness, there isn't really much to talk about concerning Prime 4, since, well, all we got is a logo. I have but one thing to say about Samus Returns: I hope Samus gets that slick Melee Counter in the next Smash.

"Truly, these are glorious times."

 

[Xygonn]

Smash boards forums are dead. A few specific threads and guides are good. Most of the action is in discord.

 

[Himura Kenshin]

I'm sure it'll pick up again once a new game is announced

 

[DungeonMaster]

I too will return in force when a new game is announced. I check in once a month or so, work has been murder, no time for discord let alone gametime. My smashbox is also delayed.

 

[NuzTheMonkey]

Hello. I am a traveling warrior looking for my Smash 4 main(s). As a part of my journey, I will be visiting all the character’s social threads who I think I might main. So, hi! To add some substance to my post, what do you think about character socials? I think they are a great way to talk with fellow people who play the character and learn more about the character as well as being able to chill and talk about stuff irl.


Hope to talk with you again!