Samus Discussion

[Darth Rancorous]

I would say Samus' dair and bair are her best moves. I also think her fair, upB and jab are pretty good.

The best way to practice is by playing people who are slightly better than u

 

[Cobrevolution]

work on getting sh dair down, as well as sh dair oos. then move on to ff dair off dL plats, run off dair non ff, and what moves dair will beat and what it will never beat. watch some videos and do your training mode.

i should take my own goddamn advice.

someone tell me how to use bombs and not get punished all the time KABAL WHERE ARE YOU

 

[NamelessHunter]

Thanks guys. That's exactly what I was looking for.

 

[The Star King]

someone tell me how to use bombs and not get punished all the time KABAL WHERE ARE YOU

Kabal's bombing is one of his most punishable habits - don't take it from him. It's only good vs people who don't adapt at all.

Thanks guys. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Darth forgot FSmash

 

[Darth Rancorous]

Kabal's bombing is one of his most punishable habits - don't take it from him. It's only good vs people who don't adapt at all.



Darth forgot FSmash

Ah, yes. How could i forget? Thanks Star King.

 

[NamelessHunter]

Two months later and I finally got the hang of dairs and bairs. I'm so proud of myself. (For christmas I asked for skills. I'm still waiting.)

What would you say Samus's best and worst stages are? I was searching for a MU chart by stage, but my google-fu is still too weak.

 

[Cobrevolution]

personal opinion

Hyrule: poor stage for her. she can't catch a lot of the faster characters and she doesn't have extreme knockback moves, so fsmash, bair and charge shot will kill at dumb high percents, and only from certain areas of the stage. she dies quickly from tornadoes (especially the platform one, don't be surprised if you lose a stock at 60ish percent), she lacks sufficient, easy to land, non-situational tent combos, and her gimp power is greatly reduced. BANNED STAGE

Congo: bad. bombs mean you can survive a bit longer and try to catch the barrel, but the situation has to be right because of her **** airspeed and vertical height on upb. it's slightly more difficult to land hits because of where she has to space, as the platforms are too high for adequate tech chasing. the only plus side is the shorter horizontal killzones, meaning fsmash and bair will kill characters sooner. the lack of ledge di hurts her a bit, but it hurts everyone; she does gain the ability to upb through the stage, though, and disrupt the opponent that way.

Peach's: bad again. while you can do some nifty things on this stage like drop cancels and upb'ing directly onto the top platform from the moving one, her recovery is awful because of no ledge and because those wedges get in the way, and her kill moves are disrupted wayyy too often by the side wedges and the bumper. however, if you think you can outperform your opponent on this stage, it's not a bad counterpick.

Dreamland: good for Samus. everyone knows the platform tech chases are her deadliest option, her recovery isn't awful and she can ride up dL's wall, and it is an overall good map on which to estalish superior stage position. it's easier for her to gimp characters here and harder to be gimped herself. you should take a gander at mixa's posts detailing where hi-fsmash will kill as opposed to bair.

 

[Mr Bushido]

ya you can do the SAMUS VORTEX on dreamland

 

[Darth Rancorous]

What cobr said. Also, I have mixed feelings about saffron. There are a lot of gaps in the stage for her to gimp but, I just never had great success there.

Also, dark suit Samus in Congo = top tier! Lol

 

[MattNF]

What are the best times to use upsmash? I use it occasionally but only to throw the opponent off guard.

 

[rpotts]

When they're on a platform above you or against a wall and shielding.

I mean, you could probably never use it ever and still win more than using it only 'the best times'.

 

[Cobrevolution]

after a dair, if someone likes to drop on you from above and you can predict it, when they're on a platform, after a teleport to catch them off guard, as a taunt, as an edgeguard...

 

[Sangoku]

As a bomb combo after shieldbreak.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

good way to edgeguard yoshi if you know they're going to try to go through you

 

[M!nt]

Stop telling people how to edgeguard yoshi! It's the only thing I have going for me ; __ ;

well until my DK become the best of course

 

[clubbadubba]

just grab yoshi as an edgeguard

 

[¨°PÞ-§°¨ Bane]

always put a bomb down on the edge once you knock a yoshi far off the map

if you know a yoshi is going to go through you and you have a bomb down AND you upsmash it's soooo much free damage. also if you grab them you can wait for the bomb to explode until you throw them and that's more free %

 

[mixa]

so pivot drop is pretty cool looking but so hard to do

Spoiler: .

and by the way, this is how far and low you can be and still grab de ledge: http://i.minus.com/iVyRP7eIi43oR.gif

 

[mixa]

never thought of using bombs like that. pretty smart.

http://gfycat.com/EachEmotionalAstrangiacoral (from Jousuke vs Tatsuman, Fall 2011)

I did a quick test and maybe two bombs are possible.

Spoiler: 2

if unstale, 2 bombs = 18%

hax DI might mess this up.
first bomb cannot be too close because the dizzy animation of the character might touch it

you guys should post non-intuitive/cool tricks. I don't agree with me double-posting.

 

[Cobrevolution]

two bombs is extremely risky, but i punish like that quite often...i mean with the bomb in between the grab

also ledgehop bomb to stage is a decent recovery gimmick

AND I JUST PULLED OFF SOMETHING REALLY COOL VS CANEUT AND WANTED TO MAKE A GIF FOR YOU MIXA but he didn't save the broadcast

i did a teleport charge shot to his recovering fox and he reflected it and i down b'd over it in choreographed fashion and got the edgeguard i think (which resulted in repeated downb's to lolfox'srecovery

 

[The Star King]

Real men would do an UPSmash combo on a shieldbreak

 

[Jouske]

I think it is not important to attack with bombs.
I only want to throw on the edge of stage,because it is easy to obstruct fox`s return to the stage.
Only throwing is cheerless, so I take the opportunity to put bomb when I throw.

But,throwing after 2 bomb hit combo is an interesting idea.

 

[Sangoku]

@ Jouske Welcome to Smashboards! We are all very happy that you join us and I hope you will stay and post regularly to share your Samus knowledge

 

[mixa]

Welcome!

Heh, I was about to make a post on the how-tos of platform tech-chasing featuring inumerous examples of a certain Samus main performing it. Now it's weird. Embarrass

 

[Cobrevolution]

do it anyway. i've been having issues landing it consistently and if i get an opponent on a platform i want to make sure it results in a death.

do we have data on techrolls? like literally whose lasts the longest and goes the furthest?

and why i can occasionally land the trap on kirby but not someone like dk

 

[mixa]

do we have data on techrolls? like literally whose lasts the longest and goes the furthest?

yessir

and why i can occasionally land the trap on kirby but not someone like dk

I don't know, DK is heavier so you need him at ~70%? What is the issue, specifically? I tried looking for Samus vs DK matches, but I didn't find any good examples (mostly the Samuses got outplayed).

 

[Cobrevolution]

maybe i just can't pull off the trap as effectively because i suck at doing chip damage against DK until i can get him in a decent position to start it up

but because of his weight and stuff it seems extra difficult

 

[Skrlx]

why not double bomb and then UP SMASH + w/e?

 

[Jouske]

Thank you
But,it is hart to understand meaning of the English conversation for me, so my reply is in the known range.
Probably,I guess now talking subject is where should Samus stand in Dreamland.
There is no condidence.

I think UP SMASH combo is difficult because if opponent move in hit stop, UP SMASH`s first attack miss.

 

[Cobrevolution]

samus vs kirby, mario, ness, fox, dk, luigi, jigglypuff = TOP PLATFORM

samus vs falcon = UNDER PLATFORM

samus vs samus, pikachu, yoshi, link = ??????

 

[Jouske]

Thanks.I understanded meaning of PLATFORM.

I think....
vs pikachu = UNDER or TOP PLATFORM.
UNDER = Maybe only Japanese.Because Samus`s UP B is strong.
So I think Samus should land TOP PLATFORM and watch for a chance to guard and slip off the PLATFORM.

vs yoshi = TOP PLATFORM.

vs link = TOP or MIDDLE PLATFORM.
I think UNDER PLATFORM is hard to transact Boomerang.
If I don`t be hit Link`s air UP A, I want to land TOP PLATFORM than MIDDLE.

vs Samus = .......I am thinking. But, Probably UNDER PLATFORM.

 

[mixa]

So I think Samus should land TOP PLATFORM and watch for a chance to guard and slip off the PLATFORM.

guard and slip off = this? → http://center2.gfycat.com/GraveNewAldabratortoise

 

[rpotts]

I'm pretty confident that's what he's talking about, mixa.

 

[Jouske]

guard and slip off = this? → http://center2.gfycat.com/GraveNewAldabratortoise

Yes.I don't know the English official name.So I wrote motion.

In vs pikachu case, if Samus succeeded in guarding and slipping off the PLATFORM, Samus's Air BACK A doesn't hit.
The intention of guard and slip off the PLATFORM is escape.

 

[onmy.]

Could someone just outline which moves are solid and which are utter ****? I don't even know where to start learning Samus

 

[mixa]

@ Jouske , I'm really curious, what Japanese name is used for "Air BACK A"?

Air down A = メテオ (for Samus/Falcon)

Air back A = 後ろ ... 「ぎり」 ??
Air forward A = 前 ...?
Air up A = ...?






————————————————————————————

A while ago I did this for Fox. But recently I've been interested in ground tech-chasing with Samus, and considering Dash Attack is sometimes an option, I found out at which % the opponent needs to be in order for the Dash Attack to knock him down and thus force a tech.

Basically, the idea:

-- VS --

Samus Dash Attack vs||Damage|Frame Advantage tech-in-place|Frame Advantage tech-roll (+14F)
Kirby||25%|15|29
PIkachu| |25%|11|25
Fox||31%|7|21
Falcon||33%|9|23

Dash Attacking below this % does not knock down the opponent (see first gif).

1. A consecutive second Dash Attack will not knock down the opponent (the move will be stale)
2. Consider that different characters have different tech-roll distances
   
3. As the % increases, so does the frame advantage

This measurement assumes:

• Opponent is not crouching
• Dash Attack is fresh (not stale)
• Dash Attack connects as soon as the hitbox is out, which means that is the minimum Frame Adv. possible (it can go up 3 frames)

I find it odd that Pika and Kirby share the same %
Using the shield to tech-chase mite b cool

 

[The Star King]

Could someone just outline which moves are solid and which are utter ****? I don't even know where to start learning Samus

IMO

**** (essential)
Bair
Dair
FSmash

*** (useful)
Fair
Jab
Charge Shot
Up-B (outside recovery, talking about general combat use)
Bomb (outside recovery, talking about general combat use)
Grab (for reading shields and stuff)
Nair

** (fairly situational but can be useful at times)
Uair
Ftilt
Dtilt
DSmash
USmash

* (utter garbage)
UTilt

It was kind of hard to decide where to put some things since some things are kind of borderline, and I did it kind of quickly, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Skrlx]

Cool post, Mixa. I love the GIFs. Also, smash 64 confirmed for having meteors before Melee.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

@ Jouske

Jouske

 

[mixa]

I showed this clip to someone before and they said the same thing, I still think it's not.


Yeah, you can also stop running with a grab, but Samus doesn't have a choice. It's very good with Pika, though.
By the way, I remember testing which option was faster to stop your momentum, a grab or a shield. IIRC, shielding is one frame faster.