Sakurai explains why Ridley isn't Playable.

[Etc_Guy]

Except everyone is still bigger than him and he is still completely helpless without his Pikmin.

Um, he has attacks without his pikmin.

#Rosiebais

 

[ChikoLad]

Um, he has attacks without his pikmin.

#Rosiebais

And in Resident Evil, you can attack without a weapon.

Doesn't mean you're going to do jack against that zombie horde.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I wouldn't say it's hypocrisy. I think it's just how Sakurai sees Ridley that is not in line with what the fanbase sees.

It comes down to:
- Ridley must be a large and imposing character, but that would potentially cause game balancing issues.
- Ridley can be shrunken, but doing so would feel out of character, as he wouldn't be the imposing figure he's known to be.

That's all there is to it. Ridley fans don't care about his size, Sakurai does. It's a disagreement between fans and creator and nothing more.

As for Duck Hunt Duo, he just has inspiration from NES Zapper games overall. It's a composite character. You just happen to play as the dog and the duck.

I dont see how people see duck hunt dog as playing as the Duck also, let alone the Hunter. That makes no since to me but to each his own

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I call bull****

 

[CaptainAmerica]

WARNING, bit of a rant ahead:


I think one of the main problems is that Sakurai is terrible at PR. If it wasn’t for the fact that Smash will sell itself, his hyping of this game would make sure pretty much nobody outside Japan would buy it. After all, the Ridley debate is pretty much an American thing; Ridley has a very small fanbase in Japan since he’s not kawaii. Meanwhile, the character archetype of ‘cute young boy who is obsessed with eating’ is a huge comedy thing over there, but makes for a bit irritating of a character here. Lots of Nintendo characters can fit into the idea of one-fanbase-likes-them-but-not-the-other, but we’re at the point that the fanbases liked in the West (DK, Metroid, realistic Zelda) are getting very little in Smash compared to the big ones in Japan (Kirby, Kid Icarus)


So now, he’s telling us that he has no intention of putting in one of the most requested characters in the US. When does he say this? 24 hours before the game releases in the US. Why? That’s a major hype-killer there, particularly when you attach a flimsy hypocritical argument with it. I keep having to remind myself of why I want the game, since up to now the US fanbase - but particularly fans of Ridley and people who dislike the idea of clones (at least some being special enough to get a full alternate character, but others not getting that) – has been insulted several times by Sakurai. Pro tip: don’t call your customers children when they’re unhappy about you giving them clones. I have a great reason why I don’t like them: there are loads of unlockables that require “All characters do X”. I’m terrible with Pit, so now I have to do everything TWICE with him to unlock things since Pit has a clone too? I get that some people may like him, but DP to me represents Sakurai’s bias against the US fanbases, so I have a prejudice.


Timing is everything. Did anyone check what happened to preorders/sales of 3DS when the 50-fact extravaganza happened? That was the first time they explicitly said what was happening to Ridley. Yeah, it was disappointing, but they padded it with Fact 54, and that was what stuck. Hype went through the roof. Now, we get confirmation that Ridley is probably never going to happen, and we’re getting that padded with “We’re not considering DLC.” Way to kill the hype. And right before the game releases? Sakurai seems to be trying to kill hype for the game. Is he trying to prove that Smash for WiiU is a terrible idea by trying to get people not to buy it?


I was originally going to get both versions. Then it released in Japan and I found that neither Mewtwo nor Ridley were in, and Ganondorf was nowhere near as awesome as his HW incarnation. It killed hype. Then sakurai comments about how we’re all children since we’re not grateful for Dark Pit. I decided I didn’t need the 3DS version. I really only wanted it for travel and to play on the Gerudo Valley stage. Later, they come out with the 50-fact extravaganza, so I immediately went and got the 3DS version. And I do have fun playing it on the subways, and Gerudo Valley is great. Still wish Ridley was in, along with the return of Shiek/Zelda transformations, the full Pokémon trainer, Wolf, and the Ice Climbers, but it’s ok. It’s not Brawl though. I still thought that I couldn’t wait for the WiiU version. Then 24 hours before I can pick up my midnight release, I get to read about how Sakurai wants to stay true to the character, so Ridley will never be in – but Ganondorf is still a Falcon clone because he likes it despite it having nothing to do with the series. Again, he’s basically telling the US fanbases he cares nothing about them, and I’m forced to remind myself why I want to buy this game. Way to kill the hype. So I’ll content myself with Link and Zelda in HD, along with the eventual return of Mewtwo, but I don’t like being insulted like this. There’s enough that I do want, I just need to quick build my hype back up.


I guess I’m just frustrated. They’ve done a lot of brutal deconfirmations lately (the Robin codec) basically brushing people off. It’ll still be a good game, but Sakurai’s outbursts kind of leave a sour taste in my mouth.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I call bull****

I think that was just a E3 promo video they used. I dont get how people talk about that like its fact

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Sakurai’s outbursts kind of leave a sour taste in my mouth.

But what about the "fans" outbursts? we act like children, we are going to be treated like children

sorry about the double post

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I think that was just a E3 promo video they used. I dont get how people talk about that like its fact

But he looks fine sized down, he still looks threatening and is true to metroid (More than Zamus)

 

[alex6309]

Let's also not point fingers at other characters and say "this character's fighting style was pulled out of thin air!", because this is not the case with any character in Smash, at all. There is a basis used for every single character in this game, and if you don't believe me, just ask me and I will tell you if I have to.

Can I ask what the basis for making Ganondorf a Falcon clone is? I'm genuinely curious as I don't think he gave a reason for keeping him as a clone for brawl and onward. I may be wrong though.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

But he looks fine sized down, he still looks threatening and is true to metroid (More than Zamus)

I dont know about you, but that doesn't look really threatening but thats just me

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I dont know about you, but that doesn't look really threatening but thats just me

That's probs just cause of 2001 graphics

 

[MrPhox]

Well there you have it. Until Sakurai steps down as the director we'll never get Ridley playable.

For this reason alone I hope Sakurai doesn't return for Smash 5. Anyone who takes his place would make Ridley playable. Please let this be Sakurai's last Smash.

You are such a fanboy for a super specific character, who's never been playable in the franchise he originates either. Sakurai has done a fine job with the series on the whole.There's no reason to believe if smash had another director, they would put ridley in the game. Play charizard.

 

[MrPhox]

I read that, and I can respect where he's coming from, until I realized that Pikmin are like a centimeter tall. So right there that throws his reasoning right out the window. Maybe he is just a troll at heart, but anyway, he is still a loser for trolling him in the Direct.

Ridley deconfirmed for life though. He will never be playable. At least he set that straight.

It's a proportion issue. To get his wingspan down to a reasonable level compared to the cast, the dude would be like metaknight. Not a scary big dragon-like monster.

 

[Riskman]

To be perfectly honest, the way I see this is:

"I don't want to make fighters a poor portrayal of the character. Which is why Ganondorf is like Captain Falcon, and why Samus is weaker than Zero Suit Samus."

I think this is like his excuse in 2008 for why Miis and Villager weren't playable in Brawl to some extent (That excuse being that they 'didn't belong' in a fighting game or something), but as long as he recognizes that Ridley is a popular character, I'm actually okay with it. It means Ridley will always get at least some special treatment, in a way.

 

[Etc_Guy]

And in Resident Evil, you can attack without a weapon.

Doesn't mean you're going to do jack against that zombie horde.

I thought you were talking about smash, but then I remembered:

Everyone < Rosalina

soincbrawler182 in a nutshell.

 

[HammerHappy]

Someone get the preperation H the amount of butthurt in this thread is off the charts.

People write off the "too big" thing as if it isn't a good reason when it is.
Because "too big" isn't just talking about mass. Look at the way this character is built.

His neck, arms, legs and tail are extremely spindly and extend far out from his core. On top of that already protruding neck he has a large, narrow head. Oh, and a massive wingspan that extends the length of his body.

They would have to either fold his limbs and keep the wings closed or just turn him into a Ridley-esque gimp.
Both options completely **** with movement such as running or jumping. The reach on his attacks would either be brokenly huge, or make no ****ing sense.

You can sing about Olimar, Bowser and Charizard until the cows come home. These characters are capable of being scaled because their designs allow it to flow, and work. When Bowser smacks someone, his arms aren't long enough to reach into next week or have to be oddly folded or shrunk into the games proportions.

Sakurai made the right call. He isn't trolling, he's using his intelligence as a game designer to realize that creating some bastardized Ridley with folded/gimped/janky ass animations and hitboxs wasn't a good idea.
Don't insult the man for understanding what you can't and refusing to sacrifice his principles.

This horse has been beaten into the ground so much it's threatening to melt in the heat of the earths core. Hopefully this was the final pile driver.

 

[ChikoLad]

Can I ask what the basis for making Ganondorf a Falcon clone is? I'm genuinely curious as I don't think he gave a reason for keeping him as a clone for brawl and onward. I may be wrong though.

-Was originally a Falcon clone because Melee had time constraints, and Sakurai himself has noted that the two have fairly similar builds, serving as the basis for why Ganondorf could fit the role.
-Stayed a Falcon clone because people were accustomed to how he played.
-Being a Falcon clone in the way he is fits him. His two most iconic traits are represented in full force - dark magic, and pure ruthlessness. He's much more brutal than Captain Falcon, despite having similar moves. When Captain Falcon uses Side B, he upper cut punches you. When Ganondorf does it, he squeezes your ****ing skull in, and if used in the air, he drags you to the depths of hell with him.
-Over time he's been becoming less of a clone. Ganondorf's customs in this game make him feel more differentiated from Falcon, especially since he can now use his sword as an actual attack.

Granted, I'd love for Ganondorf to have his own, original moveset completely. But in terms of how he is represented in his actual character, he's been done justice in Smash. While Captain Falcon is a flashy super hero type, Ganondorf takes that moveset Falcon has and warps it into a ruthless, merciless fighting style that only he could do.

 

[mahkan]

Someone get the preperation H the amount of butthurt in this thread is off the charts.

People write off the "too big" thing as if it isn't a good reason when it is.
Because "too big" isn't just talking about mass. Look at the way this character is built.

His neck, arms, legs and tail are extremely spindly and extend far out from his core. On top of that already protruding neck he has a large, narrow head and a massive wingspan.

They would have to either fold his limbs and keep the wings closed or just turn him into a Ridley-esque gimp.
Both options completely **** with movement such as running or jumping. The reach on his attacks would either be brokenly huge, or make no ****ing sense.

You can sing about Olimar, Bowser and Charizard until the cows come home. These characters are capable of being scaled because their designs allow it to flow, and work. When Bowser smacks someone, his arms aren't long enough to reach into next week or have to be oddly folded or shrunk into the games proportions.

Sakurai made the right call. He isn't trolling, he's using his intelligence as a game designer to realize that creating some *******ized Ridley with folded/gimped/janky *** animations and hitboxs wasn't a good idea.
Don't insult the man for understanding what you can't and refusing to sacrifice his principles.

This horse has been beaten into the ground so much it's threatening to melt in the heat of the earths core. Hopefully this was the final pile driver.

Even if they put him in the game, I'm sure some Ridley fan would complain about his appearance or move set.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Even if they put him in the game, I'm sure some Ridley fan would complain about his appearance or move set.

"Why is he just grabbing you and breathing on you!? he should have more moves!"
" Thats literaly all he did the the main metroid games"
" MORE MOVES"
*makes him like Charzard with more moves"
" WHY IS HE A CLONE?"

 

[Riskman]

-Was originally a Falcon clone because Melee had time constraints, and Sakurai himself has noted that the two have fairly similar builds, serving as the basis for why Ganondorf could fit the role.
-Stayed a Falcon clone because people were accustomed to how he played.
-Being a Falcon clone in the way he is fits him. His two most iconic traits are represented in full force - dark magic, and pure ruthlessness. He's much more brutal than Captain Falcon, despite having similar moves. When Captain Falcon uses Side B, he upper cut punches you. When Ganondorf does it, he squeezes your ****ing skull in, and if used in the air, he drags you to the depths of hell with him.
-Over time he's been becoming less of a clone. Ganondorf's customs in this game make him feel more differentiated from Falcon, especially since he can now use his sword as an actual attack.

Granted, I'd love for Ganondorf to have his own, original moveset completely. But in terms of how he is represented in his actual character, he's been done justice in Smash. While Captain Falcon is a flashy super hero type, Ganondorf takes that moveset Falcon has and warps it into a ruthless, merciless fighting style that only he could do.

Hm, I happen to disagree. While I love Ganon's moveset, a lot of that is really just because I like the idea of being able to play as Ganondorf. I think what Ganondorf does in this game could easily be mirrored by a few other F-Zero characters, while Ganondorf himself could adopt a moveset that represents more what he is about. A lot of Ganondorf is to do with his magic, but in Smash all they do is put some pretty particle effects on him and call it magic, when in reality this is nothing like what Ganondorf does in Zelda games. In my opinion, Smash Ganon is sort of like his own little incarnation of Ganondorf at this point, representing almost nothing but itself instead of the game it is actually from.

If this were an accurate portrayal of Ganondorf, he'd be launching his Volley shot thing, and would have his sword in his moveset for more than one custom move that still functions exactly like the Falcon Punch. Possibly even other magic stuff like teleporting and summoning things. While some moves definitely do fit him in his current moveset (Side B), a lot of them really don't fit him too much (Up Air, Nair, Utilt). I think it is definitely possible to give Ganondorf a brutal moveset utilizing projectiles, his sword and other ways you could do magic, and the reason they haven't is a combination of laziness and fear of backlash from fans.

 

[alex6309]

Even if they put him in the game, I'm sure some Ridley fan would complain about his appearance or move set.

Anyone can complain about anything so I don't see how this statement provides anything of substance to the discussion.

-Being a Falcon clone in the way he is fits him. His two most iconic traits are represented in full force - dark magic, and pure ruthlessness. He's much more brutal than Captain Falcon, despite having similar moves. When Captain Falcon uses Side B, he upper cut punches you. When Ganondorf does it, he squeezes your ****ing skull in, and if used in the air, he drags you to the depths of hell with him.

Ganondorf doesn't outright punch & kick though, I might be playing and seeing the wrong Zelda games but I always see him using his magic powers or sword skills in a fight and not running in and kicking Link the in face. Also, what Dark Magic does he use aside from "buffing" his specials which are mostly terrible, slow, and telegraphed?

 

[Folt]

Can I ask what the basis for making Ganondorf a Falcon clone is? I'm genuinely curious as I don't think he gave a reason for keeping him as a clone for brawl and onward. I may be wrong though.

He needed to pad out the roster for Melee, and Ganondorf was a) popular. b) had a similiar build to Cpt. Falcon. As his primary trait was his ridiculous power and dark magic, he was made a slower Cpt. Falcon clone with one of the highest strength damage- and knockback-wise in the game, and made it so Ganondorf used his dark magic to further boost his attacks. While unorthodox, he fit in just fine and the rest is history.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Hm, I happen to disagree. While I love Ganon's moveset, a lot of that is really just because I like the idea of being able to play as Ganondorf. I think what Ganondorf does in this game could easily be mirrored by a few other F-Zero characters, while Ganondorf himself could adopt a moveset that represents more what he is about.

So much yes. One of the big things about Hyrule Warriors is how we got an absolute beast for Ganondorf this time, and playable to boot. I doubt I was alone in thinking "THIS is what we need in Smash!" Falcondorf is ok...I like him because he's Ganondorf, but that's about it. The cloneyness was so much more disappointing after HW came out. Besides, I loved the idea of giving that moveset to Black Shadow so it was not wasted, and then the people who liked the moveset still had it, and then remaking the Dorf.

But back on topic, I've been checking out the Ridley mod that @BaganSmashBros has been working on. Personally, I don't think he looks lame or gimpy even though he's been shrunk down. Of course people will complain if he is in - that's gonna happen in a game this big. I think the mod looks incredible, and Metroid does sorely need another character that's not Samus or Samus again.

Ah, well...I just need to calm down a bit and play the game. Can't wait to see Link in HD smacking people around. And if I'm still sore in a few months, I'll get my DLC Mewtwo on Pyrosphere vs a Sakurai Mii, and them get Ridley on my side to let him have his day.

 

[Dr. Corndog]

For real, Ridley is an overhyped character. The popularity behind him is ridiculous.

He kind of is, and I wanted him myself. But not because the character is so deserving, but because Metroid needs a real second rep, and Ridley's the best choice from a cast that's pretty lacking (apart from Samus herself).

 

[mahkan]

"Why is he just grabbing you and breathing on you!? he should have more moves!"
" Thats literaly all he did the the main metroid games"
" MORE MOVES"
*makes him like Charzard with more moves"
" WHY IS HE A CLONE?"

I would love it if the Metroid series in general had more representation (and some more games). I'm just worried that everyone's expectations would be too high if he was added into the game.

 

[ChikoLad]

Hm, I happen to disagree. While I love Ganon's moveset, a lot of that is really just because I like the idea of being able to play as Ganondorf. I think what Ganondorf does in this game could easily be mirrored by a few other F-Zero characters, while Ganondorf himself could adopt a moveset that represents more what he is about. A lot of Ganondorf is to do with his magic, but in Smash all they do is put some pretty particle effects on him and call it magic, when in reality this is nothing like what Ganondorf does in Zelda games. In my opinion, Smash Ganon is sort of like his own little incarnation of Ganondorf at this point, representing almost nothing but itself instead of the game it is actually from.

If this were an accurate portrayal of Ganondorf, he'd be launching his Volley shot thing, and would have his sword in his moveset for more than one custom move that still functions exactly like the Falcon Punch. Possibly even other magic stuff like teleporting and summoning things. While some moves definitely do fit him in his current moveset (Side B), a lot of them really don't fit him too much (Up Air, Nair, Utilt). I think it is definitely possible to give Ganondorf a brutal moveset utilizing projectiles, his sword and other ways you could do magic, and the reason they haven't is a combination of laziness and fear of backlash from fans.

It's not about "the character does that in X game and that's what makes it accurate". It's about fitting the character as a whole.

Ganondorf may not straight up punch or kick too much, but giving him a sword gives him the stigma of "ugh another swordfighter". Plus, when you think of "ruthless brute strength", you don't think of fine swordplay, you think of...well, the sort of stuff Ganondorf does in Smash.

Also, U-Tilt absolutely fits him. That move exudes pure power, and is one of the most satisfying moves in the Smash Bros franchise, IMO. It may not be completely viable in competitive play, but when it does hit, it feels REALLY good.

Ganondorf doesn't outright punch & kick though, I might be playing and seeing the wrong Zelda games but I always see him using his magic powers or sword skills in a fight and not running in and kicking Link the in face. Also, what Dark Magic does he use aside from "buffing" his specials which are mostly terrible, slow, and telegraphed?

His customs specials in this game are actually mostly giving the "dark magic" side of his character more focus. For example, for one of his custom neutral B moves, he sends out a huge wave of dark magic right in front of him.

However, "terrible, slow, and telegraphed moves" just come from them trying to make his character fit in the first place. Even in Hyrule Warriors, Ganondorf is comparatively much easier to read than the other characters (ironically, I have less trouble fighting any other character than I do him, despite him being the big bad in that game). Being slow and telegraphed is actually part of what he is these days. It just so happens that in a competitive scenario, this makes him suffer.

One of the big things about Hyrule Warriors is how we got an absolute beast for Ganondorf this time, and playable to boot. I doubt I was alone in thinking "THIS is what we need in Smash!" Falcondorf is ok...I like him because he's Ganondorf, but that's about it. The cloneyness was so much more disappointing after HW came out.

I actually completely agree with this. I would love Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf in Smash (heck, I'd love Hyrule Warriors Zelda too - Zelda is my least favourite character in Smash, due to how generic her moveset is to me). I'm not saying what we have now is better than that. But in terms of how Ganondorf as a CHARACTER in Smash is, he is perfectly represented. This has nothing to do with his moveset per se, it's more how he feels. The sense of power he grants when using him, and the ruthless, merciless attitude he has is exactly what people expect from him.

In comparison what would have to be done to make Ridley playable in Smash, making Ganondorf a Falcon clone is much better and in character, than making Ridley smaller, or grounded. That's really all I'm saying. Ganondorf still feels in character and his moves fit what we know about him as a character, even though it could be better.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I would love it if the Metroid series in general had more representation (and some more games). I'm just worried that everyone's expectations would be too high if he was added into the game.

you know their expectations will be too high

 

[TheTrueCorrectGuy]

OK people, stop acting like Ganondorf isn't a argument here. Ganondorf is not well represented. He's just not. What, some of his attacks involve magic? So? Honestly, that's like if you added Gandalf to the SSB roster and he attacked by punching people with magic. Saying "Well he uses magic in his punches!" doesn't make him well represented.

Secondly, he STILL wouldn't be well represented even if he canonically did punch people. Why? Because he's slow and gasping. Ganondorf, even at his very oldest in Windwaker, has always been incredibly agile. He's not even y'know agile-ish but still could work as some weary old dude. In all his games besides OOT, he's an old dude, who still fast can move around quick well. In OOT he was a young guy who was agile.

"He runs while panting... "Uff uff uff!""


The only thing here that connects Ganon to his canon character is:

1. He uses magic
2. He's strong



So using this logic, just make Ganondorf a Palutena clone. Palutena has powerful hits and uses magic. Ganondorf would be perfectly well represented. Right?

Ridley, on the other hand, even if he was resized, would represent his character better than Ganondorf given he had an original moveset. If Ridley had all the attacks that he used in his games, and still remained biggish, he'd be perfectly fine.

So, when a Ridley has a fitting moveset, fitting character, acts the way the in-game character would, but is resized, the character is automatically not a good representation.

However when Ganondorf is changed from a Trident/Sword wielding agile wizard who's primary means of attacking are throwing lightning, swinging a trident, slashing with a sword, and summoning ghostly minions, to a slow and gasping fist fighter, the character is being represented just as he would in a game. Really? Are you being serious here? You're basically saying that a character's size is what makes or breaks him. It doesn't matter the quality of the moveset or the actions of the characters, what matters is how big they are. That's the most ****ing stupid thing I've ever heard.

I'm honestly kinda pissed about the stuff Sakurai's been saying recently. So many stupid excuses. I mean, I'm fine with tie constraints or even Sakurai just not being willing, but this stupid excuse crap is really annoying. First the "Ganondorf is my daddy" bull**** (Call me a douche, but that's something for me to explain elsewhere), and now this. C'mon Sakurai, enough.

EDIT: Before you tell me that Ganondorf needs to be slow to balance him, here's what I have to say. Ganondorf has always been somewhat slow in the Zelda games, but not because he's incapable. He walks nonchalantly towards you because it makes him exude confidence. When you're fighting an opponent who's towering over you and just casually striding towards you because he know he can treat this like a simple task, it makes him intimidating. But when you start fighting Ganon, he's a spidermonkey. He's incredibly agile and capable. There's no reason why this can't be in Smash Bros. To top it all off, this is done with Bowser. He walks kinda slowly, but many of his moves are athletic.

Plus Ganon, even if he is slow, should NOT seem old and worn out. One of Ganondorf's primary qualities when he's older is that he's old, yet still nimble and force to be reckoned with. Making him gasp and struggle when he moves like some fat kid is a HUGE and I mean HUGE disservice to his character. Bowser and Palutena move slowly, but they don't act like they're on the verge of death. There's no reason for this. The most iconic warlock in gaming is represented insultingly.

 

[Etc_Guy]

It's not about "the character does that in X game and that's what makes it accurate". It's about fitting the character as a whole.

Ganondorf may not straight up punch or kick too much, but giving him a sword gives him the stigma of "ugh another swordfighter". Plus, when you think of "ruthless brute strength", you don't think of fine swordplay, you think of...well, the sort of stuff Ganondorf does in Smash.

Also, U-Tilt absolutely fits him. That move exudes pure power, and is one of the most satisfying moves in the Smash Bros franchise, IMO. It may not be completely viable in competitive play, but when it does hit, it feels REALLY good.



His customs specials in this game are actually mostly giving the "dark magic" side of his character more focus. For example, for one of his custom neutral B moves, he sends out a huge wave of dark magic right in front of him.

However, "terrible, slow, and telegraphed moves" just come from them trying to make his character fit in the first place. Even in Hyrule Warriors, Ganondorf is comparatively much easier to read than the other characters (ironically, I have less trouble fighting any other character than I do him, despite him being the big bad in that game). Being slow and telegraphed is actually part of what he is these days. It just so happens that in a competitive scenario, this makes him suffer.



I actually completely agree with this. I would love Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf in Smash (heck, I'd love Hyrule Warriors Zelda too - Zelda is my least favourite character in Smash, due to how generic her moveset is to me). I'm not saying what we have now is better than that. But in terms of how Ganondorf as a CHARACTER in Smash is, he is perfectly represented. This has nothing to do with his moveset per se, it's more how he feels. The sense of power he grants when using him, and the ruthless, merciless attitude he has is exactly what people expect from him.

In comparison what would have to be done to make Ridley playable in Smash, making Ganondorf a Falcon clone is much better and in character, than making Ridley smaller, or grounded. That's really all I'm saying. Ganondorf still feels in character and his moves fit what we know about him as a character, even though it could be better.

The biggest Rosalina fan on Smashboards defending someone else? What a miracle!

(I have nothing against Falcondorf.)

 

[Riskman]

It's not about "the character does that in X game and that's what makes it accurate". It's about fitting the character as a whole.

Also, U-Tilt absolutely fits him. That move exudes pure power, and is one of the most satisfying moves in the Smash Bros franchise, IMO. It may not be completely viable in competitive play, but when it does hit, it feels REALLY good.

idk, something about ganon sticking his leg high high into the sky seems to fit wii fit trainer better than it does him

 

[Meta-Kraid]

Let's get one thing straight. There are three possibilities:
1. Sakurai honestly hasn't tried to make Ridley playable. This is unlikely due to his "move set" as a boss.
2. Samurai is trolling or will change his mind in the same way he did for Palutena, Toon Link, the Villager, and the Miis. This seems pretty likely.
3.Sakurai honestly doesn't think Ridley would work and would be better as a boss.
Can we just acknowledge the fact that Ridley is possible? The only reason Sakurai said Ridley isn't in is because he didn't feel like adding him. Smash seems like a way to have awesome Nintendo characters fight eachother including the most popular ones, and the ones who you could never play as otherwise. Just remember Sakurai changes his mind constantly. Ridley could be one of the first newcomers confirmed for Smash5.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

-snip-

What pisses me off more is how this **** got blown out of proportion when It should of just ended. All because people want to argue about something

 

[TheTrueCorrectGuy]

Ganondorf is THE evil wizard of videogames. He's not just representing himself when in Smash Bros., he's representing videogame evil wizards, who are a very prevalent demographic in videogames, as whole. Bowser does the same for all videogame villains. Peach does the same for videogame damsels. Luigi does the same for videogame sidekicks, Samus does the same for badass space warriors, Link does the same for silent protagonists, and Sonic does the same for speed and attitude. Stop acting like Falcondorf is acceptable. Giving Ganon a moveset that involves no magic is like giving Samus a moveset that doesn't involve her arm-cannon. It's lazy, and in a way it's blasphemous.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Ganondorf is THE evil wizard of videogames. He's not just representing himself when in Smash Bros., he's representing videogame evil wizards, who are a very prevalent demographic in videogames, as whole. Bowser does the same for all videogame villains. Peach does the same for videogame damsels. Luigi does the same for videogame sidekicks, Samus does the same for badass space warriors, Link does the same for silent protagonists, and Sonic does the same for speed and attitude.

ummm...

 

[LancerStaff]

Yeah, I call BS. If he was going by accuracy, Samus, who is OP with her full suit in metroid games, would be a million times better than Zero Suit samus, who is extremely weak and fragile in metroid. It makes no sense that she has more kill power and speed without her suit. So the metroid universe is already ruined in Smash games.

Ridley being small would at least make more sense than Zero Suit Samus being stronger and faster than regular Samus. Maybe Samus should take off her suit before she fights in metroid games if she's so much better without the suit.

You ever try fighting in a clunky suit? Movement is literally difficult in Super, and it translates to here. We've never seen ZSS fight in a situation where she wouldn't practically die in one shot and HP means nada in SSB.

I call bull****

I say it's outsourced and horrible looking.

OK people, stop acting like Ganondorf isn't a argument here. Ganondorf is not well represented. He's just not. What, some of his attacks involve magic? So? Honestly, that's like if you added Gandalf to the SSB roster and he attacked by punching people with magic. Saying "Well he uses magic in his punches!" doesn't make him well represented.

Secondly, he STILL wouldn't be well represented even if he canonically did punch people. Why? Because he's slow and gasping. Ganondorf, even at his very oldest in Windwaker, has always been incredibly agile. He's not even y'know agile-ish but still could work as some weary old dude. In all his games besides OOT, he's an old dude, who still fast can move around quick well. In OOT he was a young guy who was agile.

View attachment 30411 View attachment 30410
"He runs while panting... "Uff uff uff!""


The only thing here that connects Ganon to his canon character is:

1. He uses magic
2. He's strong



So using this logic, just make Ganondorf a Palutena clone. Palutena has powerful hits and uses magic. Ganondorf would be perfectly well represented. Right?

Ridley, on the other hand, even if he was resized, would represent his character better than Ganondorf given he had an original moveset. If Ridley had all the attacks that he used in his games, and still remained biggish, he'd be perfectly fine.

So, when a Ridley has a fitting moveset, fitting character, acts the way the in-game character would, but is resized, the character is automatically not a good representation.

However when Ganondorf is changed from a Trident/Sword wielding agile wizard who's primary means of attacking are throwing lightning, swinging a trident, slashing with a sword, and summoning ghostly minions, to a slow and gasping fist fighter, the character is being represented just as he would in a game. Really? Are you being serious here? You're basically saying that a character's size is what makes or breaks him. It doesn't matter the quality of the moveset or the actions of the characters, what matters is how big they are. That's the most ****ing stupid thing I've ever heard.

I'm honestly kinda pissed about the stuff Sakurai's been saying recently. So many stupid excuses. I mean, I'm fine with tie constraints or even Sakurai just not being willing, but this stupid excuse crap is really annoying. First the "Ganondorf is my daddy" bull**** (Call me a douche, but that's something for me to explain elsewhere), and now this. C'mon Sakurai, enough.

Ganondorf can't have power and speed.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

You ever try fighting in a clunky suit? Movement is literally difficult in Super, and it translates to here. We've never seen ZSS fight in a situation where she wouldn't practically die in one shot and HP means nada in SSB.



I say it's outsourced and horrible looking.


Ganondorf can't have power and speed.

Well Gaondorf has power going for him but speed? Only thing that goes faster then him is the horse he rode on to Kidnap Zelda
Im honestly just trying to lighten up the mood, sorry if it isnt working

 

[GunGunW]

Mario's personality is kind of off in Smash too... he acts more like the typical fighting game protagonist than he does like Mario.

 

[Frostwraith]

Ganoondorf is slow for balancing purposes. He's no different from Bowser or Dedede in that regard.

He hits like a truck and is slow as a compensation. Welcome to heavyweight characters.

 

[ErenJager]

"Shrunk down, wing size reduced" so essentially too big is legit, alright.

"Lose the ability to fly around freely" - Charizard, Pit, Dark Pit, Meta Knight

"Accurate portrayals" - He made the melee intro with ridley in it, does he not remember? lol.

IDK he's said villager and stuff like that wouldn't be playable too... then next iteration of the game... he changes his mind.

 

[ChikoLad]

Mario's personality is kind of off in Smash too... he acts more like the typical fighting game protagonist than he does like Mario.

It isn't off, it's actually the most accurate portrayal of the character, if you go by the "benevolent and jolly hero" description Nintendo likes to give us.

Actual Mario games focus way too much on the jolly side most of the time. Smash highlights his genuine heroic side.