Sakurai explains why Ridley isn't Playable.

[AncientTobacco]

Eh, fair enough.

 

[Etc_Guy]

If Sakurai didn't want characters that aren't 100% accurately portrayed, then DK, Bowser, Rosalina and Luma, Luigi, and Mario & Wario wouldn't be in. EDIT: Forgot Ganondorf

And wasn't Ridley the same size as Samus in the first Metroid anyway?

 

[Deleted member]

As long as I consider his reasons for Ridley's exclusion as playable pretty fair, one thing still bugs me about Sakurai :

If he does aknowledge his popularity within the Smash fanbase, why was he teasing him for more than a year instead of making a downright statement ?
Was he expecting that Ridley as he actually is would be something amazing ?

 

[Folt]

If Sakurai didn't want characters that aren't 100% accurately portrayed, then DK, Bowser, Rosalina and Luma, Luigi, and Mario & Wario wouldn't be in.

And wasn't Ridley the same size as Samus in the first Metroid anyway?

Yes, but as a villain, he looked pathetic in that game.

As long as I consider his reasons for Ridley's exclusion as playable pretty fair, one thing still bugs me about Sakurai :

If he does aknowledge his popularity within the Smash fanbase, why was he teasing him for more than a year instead of making a downright statement ?
Was he expecting that Ridley as he actually is would be something amazing ?

Yes.

 

[MagiusNecros]

As long as I consider his reasons for Ridley's exclusion as playable pretty fair, one thing still bugs me about Sakurai :

If he does aknowledge his popularity within the Smash fanbase, why was he teasing him for more than a year instead of making a downright statement ?
Was he expecting that Ridley as he actually is would be something amazing ?

Well he likes to troll. Like the whole ZSS thing. And he also has a huge ego where he feels he has to be in control of every detail when developing every iteration of the Smash Bros series. To the point he would work on the game every day.

 

[Geizt]

His statement makes sense. I'm sure he wouldn't put end form Majora as a LoZ character because of the same reasons. (now a skull kid final smash maybe)
The guy is doing his best to represent him in a light that is not contrary to the character itself.
He's a boss and a charizard alt. come on.

 

[Arklos]

As long as I consider his reasons for Ridley's exclusion as playable pretty fair, one thing still bugs me about Sakurai :

If he does aknowledge his popularity within the Smash fanbase, why was he teasing him for more than a year instead of making a downright statement ?
Was he expecting that Ridley as he actually is would be something amazing ?

Yeah... when he finally was revealed I was really disappointed with him. Even when I knew he was probably going to be a boss I was still disappointed with how gimmicky he is. The fact that he gives you a ko and that he joins your side (which contradicts what Sakurai said about being an accurate portrayal) makes him even more annoying to deal with. Add to the fact that there's all those enemies on the stage make it seem unplayable to me, which sucks because I love Ridley.

 

[Saltwater Gem]

I think that Sakurai knows best. The man is clearly an expert at really nailing down how a character 'feels' and portraying them true to the source material.

I mean he nailed down Ganondorf's personality perfectly with his moveset reminiscent of a lumbering luchador (you can tell it fits Ganondorf because purple mist). Many fans remark about how accurately he crafted ZSS into a body-paint wearing, high-heel clad kung-fu expert with a laser whip (true to source material). Wii Fit Trainer's fighting prowess and ability to project giant fireballs and rainbow colored jazzercise silhouttes really captures her true essence. And of course, it just wouldn't feel like Duck Hunt if you weren't materializing 8-bit cowboys out of atmospheric particles.

Seriously, this guy is a not a hypocrite or excuse-making boob in anyway.

Oh... turns out my sarcasm level was set to maximum.

 

[HipsandChips]

That's a good point, don't want to misrepresent a character.
Like giving them a completely different voice.
Or making them a planking weirdo.
Or basing the entire character around fire.

 

[RomanceDawn]

Welp the dream is over! Still though, there are a lot of holes in his reasoning when one truly analyzes the entire cast. But ok, I'll deal with it. For life...

My biggest issue though is dealing with flight and the wings. They were originally small before Metroid Prime. All the 2D games gave him small wings.

 

[Etc_Guy]

Ignore post

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

That's a good point, don't want to misrepresent a character.
Like giving them a completely different voice.
Or making them a planking weirdo.
Or basing the entire character around fire.

If"Like giving them a completely different voice" Was about Palentana, the Original VA wasn't available but voice shouldnt even matter. Is her personality the same, why yes it is.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If Sakurai didn't want characters that aren't 100% accurately portrayed, then DK, Bowser, Rosalina and Luma, Luigi, and Mario & Wario wouldn't be in. EDIT: Forgot Ganondorfac
And wasn't Ridley the same size as Samus in the first Metroid anyway?

He didn't say they had to be 100% accurately portrayed.

 

[Frostwraith]

I don't think people are grasping the concept of creative liberties.

Yeah, some characters do stuff they never did in their games, but it's fine as long it feels in-character. People are countering Sakurai's points with extreme arguments, which doesn't help their case at all. In the logic of some people here, why not give Mario a mechanic where he shrinks upon being hit and dies after taking another hit? Totally canon, unique and in-character, right?

Given the characters come from different genres of games, it's obvious some characters are given some liberties. It's a necessity to make them work in Smash. Game design 101 right here, folks.

However, there's a limit to how liberties can be taken and, of course, that is subjective. The thing about fictional characters is that they're always up to individual interpretation.

You know what would be out-of-character? Let me crack some absurd examples:
- Give Mario a chainsaw
- Have Ganondorf shoot cute kittens, pink hearts and rainbows
- Give Pit a set of huge bulky spiky armor
- Make Meta Knight dance and moonwalk

He didn't say they had to be 100% accurately portrayed.

This.

 

[aethermaster]

The taste of Ridley fans tears are so salty

I understand that people really want him and I honestly sympathize (I still want K. Rool) but I agree and respect his decision. That being said there have been characters that didn't look like they would work but do (Duck Hunt, Greninja, Jigglypuff) so having Ridley in would require some heavy creative liberty and his moveset would have to dig a little deep in the creativity pool.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

I completely understand Sakurai and his points. However, it is still a bit weird. Take Charizard for example. In-game, he isn't much taller than the human characters, while in the anime is is gigantic compared to Ash and the other humans there. Though, Pokemon can have different sizes I guess

In the games, Charizard is just 5"7. It's the anime that is inaccurate.

 

[Etc_Guy]

He didn't say they had to be 100% accurately portrayed.

I know, but it's mostly Wario who is not very faithful that upsets me really.

 

[Saltwater Gem]

I don't think people are grasping the concept of creative liberties.

Yeah, some characters do stuff they never did in their games, but it's fine as long it feels in-character. People are countering Sakurai's points with extreme arguments, which doesn't help their case at all. In the logic of some people here, why not give Mario a mechanic where he shrinks upon being hit and dies after taking another hit? Totally canon, unique and in-character, right?

Given the characters come from different genres of games, it's obvious some characters are given some liberties. It's a necessity to make them work in Smash. Game design 101 right here, folks.

However, there's a limit to how liberties can be taken and, of course, that is subjective. The thing about fictional characters is that they're always up to individual interpretation.

The problem here is Sakurai's hypocrisy.

It's not the audience who is demanding complete accuracy. Obviously, Ganondorf and few other points annoy some fans, but fans are generally willing to accept some creative liberties. But don't feed us this tripe about how important is to maintain faithfulness to the source material. There is almost nothing in Duck Hunt dog that is even close to the source material, other than that there are in fact a dog and ducks (which are enemies in the source game, for that matter). So I understand that liberties are subjective, but can we seriously be expected to buy that summoning 8-bit cowboys and throwing leaking oil cans are in-bounds for the Duck Hunt dog, but the simple act of making Ridley slightly smaller (achieved by several different modders) is just completely crossing the line?

If the logic was consistent, I think we'd be annoyed but accept it. If he just said, "I add who I want to" (which is probably what it comes down to) then we'd be annoyed but accept it. But it's the hypocrisy that makes Sakurai look terrible (to me, anyway).

 

[RomanceDawn]

While I certainly don't agree with his reasoning at the very least we have some real closure. And that gives me a little piece of mind.

 

[Frostwraith]

The problem here is Sakurai's hypocrisy.

It's not the audience who is demanding complete accuracy. Obviously, Ganondorf and few other points annoy some fans, but fans are generally willing to accept some creative liberties. But don't feed us this tripe about how important is to maintain faithfulness to the source material. There is almost nothing in Duck Hunt dog that is even close to the source material, other than that there are in fact a dog and ducks (which are enemies in the source game, for that matter). So I understand that liberties are subjective, but can we seriously be expected to buy that summoning 8-bit cowboys and throwing leaking oil cans are in-bounds for the Duck Hunt dog, but the simple act of making Ridley slightly smaller (achieved by several different modders) is just completely crossing the line?

If the logic was consistent, I think we'd be annoyed but accept it. If he just said, "I add who I want to" (which is probably what it comes down to) then we'd be annoyed but accept it. But it's the hypocrisy that makes Sakurai look terrible (to me, anyway).

I wouldn't say it's hypocrisy. I think it's just how Sakurai sees Ridley that is not in line with what the fanbase sees.

It comes down to:
- Ridley must be a large and imposing character, but that would potentially cause game balancing issues.
- Ridley can be shrunken, but doing so would feel out of character, as he wouldn't be the imposing figure he's known to be.

That's all there is to it. Ridley fans don't care about his size, Sakurai does. It's a disagreement between fans and creator and nothing more.

As for Duck Hunt Duo, he just has inspiration from NES Zapper games overall. It's a composite character. You just happen to play as the dog and the duck.

 

[Folt]

The problem here is Sakurai's hypocrisy.

It's not the audience who is demanding complete accuracy. Obviously, Ganondorf and few other points annoy some fans, but fans are generally willing to accept some creative liberties. But don't feed us this tripe about how important is to maintain faithfulness to the source material. There is almost nothing in Duck Hunt dog that is even close to the source material, other than that there are in fact a dog and ducks (which are enemies in the source game, for that matter). So I understand that liberties are subjective, but can we seriously be expected to buy that summoning 8-bit cowboys and throwing leaking oil cans are in-bounds for the Duck Hunt dog, but the simple act of making Ridley slightly smaller (achieved by several different modders) is just completely crossing the line?

If the logic was consistent, I think we'd be annoyed but accept it. If he just said, "I add who I want to" (which is probably what it comes down to) then we'd be annoyed but accept it. But it's the hypocrisy that makes Sakurai look terrible (to me, anyway).

Duck Hunt is also meant to represent the Hunter, and the Zapper by extension: The gunmen come from one of the games where the Zapper had a huge role and the can came from Hogan's Alley which is also a game that used the Zapper.

 

[HipsandChips]

If"Like giving them a completely different voice" Was about Palentana, the Original VA wasn't available but voice shouldnt even matter. Is her personality the same, why yes it is.

DK, Diddy, and Bowser moreso.

 

[Samus Harang]

In the games, Charizard is just 5"7. It's the anime that is inaccurate.

The games have weird stats that make no sense a lot of times. Like big characters weighing almost nothing. I would say the anime is pretty accurate to the visual style of the character.

 

[Folt]

DK, Diddy, and Bowser moreso.

Meh. They are still much in character to their personalities from the games, so this doesn't bother me.

 

[PurpleSpaceDragon]

Hopefully more gaming journalists will ask Sakurai about Ridley.

If just about every journalist Sakurai talks to brings up the Ridley topic, that would surely make a big impression upon him regarding Ridley's popularity (I still don't think Sakurai fully appreciates the level of desire for playable Ridley).

Plus, like others have said, his "sticking true to the character's essence" comment rings hollow when you see how weak and docile Ridley is as a stage boss hazard. Not to mention that Ridley fighting alongside you is completely out of character.

So I think we still haven't heard the complete true story from Sakurai as to why Ridley isn't playable. Sakurai and his team obviously experimented with a playable Ridley, but he has yet to talk about this. And for that matter, he needs to talk about why stage hazard Ridley behaves so much like a playable character, with knockout animations, edge-grabbing, and his own character icon.

If Sakurai were being completely honest regarding wanting to convey Ridley's power and viscousness, he would have given him a more boss like move set and animations as opposed to those of a player-character, and wouldn't allow him to succumb to players' attacks so easily.

 

[DraginHikari]

I have a feeling it's less to do with Ridley actual size and what else would need to make him work in the way that Sakurai would envision the character the play as. Not only would he physically have to be shrunk but some adjustments would need to be made to his wings due to their proportion to the his body as well. Sakurai seems to view Ridley as a very aerial fighter which given his the heavier weight he'd be given a weird thing to balance in general. It is definitely possible he could have worked using a different approach, but that's not what the development team did in the end.

As usual Sakurai is not a PR individual and his method of explanation can be kind of confusing and probably doesn't heavily help the situation. The problem I've always had with the Ridley situation is how much pride was caught in the entire dilemma. There were too many people who were staking their own pride in the character being/not being playable to the point of mockery. That's why we have a heavy amount of salt comments and anger here that simply doesn't exist with any other character at this point and time.

I did want Ridley in at one point, but it's really hard for me to care at this point.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

DK, Diddy, and Bowser moreso.

They are Animals... Do you REALLY want DK, Diddy and Boweser to talk? No one wants another " I'll shower you with coconut Cream Pies" and Sunshine bowser

 

[Xzsmmc]

They are Animals... Do you REALLY want DK, Diddy and Boweser to talk? No one wants another " I'll shower you with coconut Cream Pies" and Sunshine bowser

I fail to see anything wrong with them sounding like they do in the mainline Mario games. Not speaking, but having voices that fit way better than 'RAWR'.

 

[Deleted member]

I read that, and I can respect where he's coming from, until I realized that Pikmin are like a centimeter tall. So right there that throws his reasoning right out the window. Maybe he is just a troll at heart, but anyway, he is still a loser for trolling him in the Direct.

Ridley deconfirmed for life though. He will never be playable. At least he set that straight.

The problem with your or anyone else's comparison with Pikmin is that respective to Olimar, they are the appropriate height in Smash, as they were both scaled up. Ridley, on the other hand, is always much larger compared to Samus in Metroid, so keeping Samus one size but shrinking Ridley would make him disproportionate to her in especial.

I completely respect Sakurai's decision on this. I was never actively against Ridley being in Smash, but I never necessarily wanted it to happen. I think Sakurai is right in keeping Ridely the way he is in Metroid: a giant boss character.

Others may argue about Bowser, but Bowser changes sizes all the time and has even joined the fun before in games like Mario Kart and Mario Golf or whatnot.

What about Ganondorf as playable? Well, apparently he got into Melee because 1. he was popular but also 2. more importantly, he made a good Cpt. Falcon clone and was the right size.

Can you imagine trying to shrink down other boss characters to about human height for Smash? Kraid? Beast Ganon? Metal Face? Some characters need to be kept their proportionate size relative to humanoid characters. Just because Ridley makes more sense as a character in Smash than Mother Brain, it doesn't mean he makes that much sense either.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I fail to see anything wrong with them sounding like they do in the mainline Mario games. Not speaking, but having voices that fit way better than 'RAWR'.

Id rather them roar then talk. There is a reason why DK and Bowser we made not talking in the first place but I respect your opinion and I understand

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Yeah, I call BS. If he was going by accuracy, Samus, who is OP with her full suit in metroid games, would be a million times better than Zero Suit samus, who is extremely weak and fragile in metroid. It makes no sense that she has more kill power and speed without her suit. So the metroid universe is already ruined in Smash games.

Ridley being small would at least make more sense than Zero Suit Samus being stronger and faster than regular Samus. Maybe Samus should take off her suit before she fights in metroid games if she's so much better without the suit.

 

[Narth]

The sooner the ranting about Sakurai's decision not to include Ridley as a fighter, the better...

 

[BluePikmin11]

Hopefully more gaming journalists will ask Sakurai about Ridley.

If just about every journalist Sakurai talks to brings up the Ridley topic, that would surely make a big impression upon him regarding Ridley's popularity (I still don't think Sakurai fully appreciates the level of desire for playable Ridley).

Popularity will only make Sakurai consider a character, and that's only just the beginning of the newcomer process. He knows the Ridley fan-base is very big, he doesn't need more people asking about Ridley to reconsider him again. Even then, It's not going to convince Sakurai that he should be playable because he already made his permanent stance on Ridley.

 

[HipsandChips]

Id rather them roar then talk. There is a reason why DK and Bowser we made not talking in the first place but I respect your opinion and I understand

I don't think you understand, they don't talk in the main games, but they have a different voice, cartoony and not out of place realistic.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think you understand, they don't talk in the main games, but they have a different voice, cartoony and not out of place realistic.

Yeah, I think for DK especially it would have been nice to have sounds like in the new DKC games, but oh well.

 

[ChikoLad]

I had always touted this exact same reasoning as to why Ridley would not be in Smash. It wouldn't do him justice to have him be smaller or to make him not be a flying, ferocious beast. But it's also not realistically possible to make that be a fighter that isn't completely unbalanced.

I don't mean this as a jab at anyone though, that's just how I've always looked at it. Personally, Ridley was always one of my favourite bosses in the SSE, and he seems even more fun to fight in this game. I personally think being a boss character is a very special and distinguished role in Smash. After all, bosses can often be some of the most memorable parts of a game, sometimes more than the playable characters. Just think to any game where people always say "the boss fights make the game", like Mega Man, for example. Or even SSE itself - a lot of people thought the bosses were the best parts of that mode, especially the actual Nintendo characters like Rayquaza and Ridley.

I won't pretend I understand what it's like to go a whole Smash installment gap and really want a character you love, only to not get them in the end. I understand the part where you want a character so much but everyone tries to say "NO THEY CAN'T BE IN FOR X REASON, BLAHBLAHBLAH", but I actually got that character I wanted, so I don't fully relate to how they feel, and I'm not going to pretend that I do or try to tell anyone they should appreciate that he is a boss. I just know I appreciate him as a boss.

However, at the same time, don't pull at strings here. When Sakurai said - “Providing accurate portrayals of characters is something I want to pay ample attention to" - you shouldn't take that as "everything in this game is 100% accurate", because it isn't. Some design liberties are taken. And I'm sure some genuine errors are made. But he tries his best to make characters fit into the game while also making them feel like a genuine, fan-serving portrayal of the character.

Let's also not point fingers at other characters and say "this character's fighting style was pulled out of thin air!", because this is not the case with any character in Smash, at all. There is a basis used for every single character in this game, and if you don't believe me, just ask me and I will tell you if I have to.

 

[redroses]

Hopefully more gaming journalists will ask Sakurai about Ridley.

If just about every journalist Sakurai talks to brings up the Ridley topic, that would surely make a big impression upon him regarding Ridley's popularity (I still don't think Sakurai fully appreciates the level of desire for playable Ridley).

I think this interview already shows that Sakurai actually knows about the popularity of Ridley. I also think it even shows he actually was experimenting with ideas on how to make him playable.
But, he just wouldn't work how Sakurai imagined, or he thought he wouldn't do the character justice as playable character. I can see him thinking differently when the character has to be just a boss you see sometimes, so he might have taken a different approach here. However, if the character is on the rooster, I am sure he wants to the character to be as good as possible.

 

[Zero Suit Wario]

Remember when a defining aspect of playing as Olimar in Pikmin was how little and helpless you felt in a seemingly gigantic alien environment? And then when in Smash he was sized up to be nearly Kirby's size? Me neither, Sakurai.

 

[ChikoLad]

Remember when a defining aspect of playing as Olimar in Pikmin was how little and helpless you felt in a seemingly gigantic alien environment? And then when in Smash he was sized up to be nearly Kirby's size? Me neither, Sakurai.

Except everyone is still bigger than him and he is still completely helpless without his Pikmin.

 

[Zero Suit Wario]

Except everyone is still bigger than him and he is still completely helpless without his Pikmin.

I know it's not the best example, but if he's willing to do that he should be willing to change Ridley, I feel. It's not the same thing, sure, sure...