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Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise

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Skalor

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 12, 2006
Messages
100
Location
Lincolnshire, England
I cant see why Sakurai didnt focused on making the game work for BOTH Casuals and competitives. Tripping just took it too far! Options Sakurai, thats all you need, more options.

Only those easily frustrated or immature DONT ENJOY loosing. I dont mind loosing aslong as I wasnt CHEATED out of winning. Its like Sakurai doesnt understand that people can STILL enjoy loosing, because its the FIGHT what we enjoy, winning or loosing is just the BONUS! Ok we all know loosing can br frustrating, but it makes you want to PLAY MORE to get better.

Halo, COD etc are still EXTREMLY successful and promote competive play, cant he see that?
 
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Linkplayer5678

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
117
Skalor said:
Yeah I think we can see that, with it being Sakurais point.

But what we're saying is that, why couldnt he have made it more fun for us too. You dont HAVE to pick one or the other. The game can work for BOTH.
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Cuz u r ruining hiz game
 
G

GreenMarth

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
149
Location
Smithtown,NY
sakurai made a big mistake with the online aspect... i really am losing respect for the wii and sakurai. nintendo AGAIN manages to uphold the childish company reputation..no leader boards....no voice chat...no type chat..nothing but taunt which werent even meant to be used to say anything but yay i killed you

sakurai is an idiot and doesnt understand that brawl was mostly a target for the competitors.. i like melee better and it hurts for me to say it =(
 
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Linkplayer5678

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
117
GreenMarth said:
sakurai made a big mistake with the online aspect... i really am losing respect for the wii and sakurai. nintendo AGAIN manages to uphold the childish company reputation..no leader boards....no voice chat...no type chat..nothing but taunt which werent even meant to be used to say anything but yay i killed you

sakurai is an idiot and doesnt understand that brawl was mostly a target for the competitors.. i like melee better and it hurts for me to say it =(
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sup neverchris.
 
Pyrostormer

Pyrostormer

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Messages
1,069
Location
Hickory, North Carolina
If you take Melee and - the techniques and **** and + Tripping you would = Brawl
Now Brawl - Tipping + Combos = 64.
I never thought Brawl was going to be competitive mostly because the lack of depth.
 
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=Samus-Aran=

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
205
Location
North Carolina
Sakurai is right. If a person never wins and wants to be good, he will most likely give up.
But the game is balanced, I'm glad that if anyone trys, they can get really good if they want to.
Competitivity is still great, but it's aimed to normal players as well.

=S-A=
 
Witchking_of_Angmar

Witchking_of_Angmar

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
1,846
Location
Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
=Samus-Aran= said:
Sakurai is right. If a person never wins and wants to be good, he will most likely give up.
But the game is balanced, I'm glad that if anyone trys, they can get really good if they want to.
Competitivity is still great, but it's aimed to normal players as well.

=S-A=
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Get yourself a spine, man. If you lose, get better. If someone wats to get good and keeps losing, and then gives up, he can't have wanted to become good that badly.

Giving up just because you lose a lot is lazy. Because obviously you don't take the effort to learn from your mistakes and get better.
 
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Linkplayer5678

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
117
Witchking_of_Angmar said:
Get yourself a spine, man. If you lose, get better. If someone wats to get good and keeps losing, and then gives up, he can't have wanted to become good that badly.

Giving up just because you lose a lot is lazy. Because obviously you don't take the effort to learn from your mistakes and get better.
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M

Mr. Ocax

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
245
Location
Maryland
Its obvious that Sakurai has completely failed with this game. He made SO many stupid decisions. I hope Nintendo sees Smash Bros can make SO much money so they release a new one in 2-3 years WITHOUT Sakurai so they can take out tripping, and ONLY add new characters and stages. Seriously, **** Subspace Emissary.
 
Thino

Thino

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
4,845
Location
Mountain View, CA
Witchking_of_Angmar said:
Get yourself a spine, man. If you lose, get better. If someone wats to get good and keeps losing, and then gives up, he can't have wanted to become good that badly.

Giving up just because you lose a lot is lazy. Because obviously you don't take the effort to learn from your mistakes and get better.
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many players dont have that mentality of playing to get , sometimes they just want to have genuine fun
Linkplayer5678 said:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfQjwQOFA2o
 
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Linkplayer5678

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
117
coreygames said:
I bet you don't have the balls to say that to some of the pros >_>
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Thino said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfQjwQOFA2o
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Didn't click on the link, but I know wat it is.
 
A

A2xA

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Messages
39
Linkplayer5678 said:
*pic*
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You are too cool dude. Look just leave no one wants you here. I'm not going to flame, but you really don't know what you are talking about. This is mainly a competitive smash forum and why are you still here if you are insulting the community and just flaming and spamming the forums?

Not what you expected huh?

Also I'm not a fat-nerd that's a stereotype I've gota gf :p
 
DaRkJaWs

DaRkJaWs

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
429
NNID
Sharifi_shuffle
Dais said:
Its obvious what Sakurai did to try to make Brawl less or non competitive. I will agree and it does indeed suck. All those crappy stages and the worst of all ....... tripping. We know for sure why it exist now. It's crazy to think when it happens " Sakurai wants me to laugh at this!?" I don't think any of us are laughing at tripping being in the game. I think to myself, Even a casual player, lets say a 13 year old kid buys the game, plays his friends or siblings all the time, likes the game enough to get good etc. . . Is he even going to like it, when in a casual match he "" Randomly Trips"" and dies?! I honestly don't see that being fun for anyone. But I guess tripping wasn't put in for that kid but us competitive players, huh. Thats just sick. Well, a goofy Nintendo fighting game was never meant to be the serious fighter we all try our hardest to make it. And just like the other two games we will turn the items off, play the fair stages and march on, cause we're Nintendo fans, and the game is pretty cool. Let the records show however, that Sakurai is, at the very least, a medium dumb dumb.
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Um..you realize you can make your own stages right?

What's funny is that most of you only look at SSBM as more competitive because it had more glaring imbalance in it(due to speed combos), and because everything is slower now you're complaining that it sucks? You people need to get a clue.
 
Corigames

Corigames

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
5,817
Location
Tempe, AZ
Linkplayer5678 said:
………………..,-~*’`¯lllllll`*~,
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………,-~*llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll*-,
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…..\lllllllllllllllllllllllllll/………\;;;;llllllllllll,-`~-,
…...\lllllllllllllllllllll,-*………..`~-~-,…(.(¯`*,`,
…….\llllllllllll,-~*…………………)_-\..*`*;..)
……..\,-*`¯,*`)…………,-~*`~.………….../
……...|/.../…/~,…...-~*,-~*`;……………./.\
……../.../…/…/..,-,..*~,.`*~*…………….*...\
…….|.../…/…/.*`...\...……………………)….)¯`~,
…….|./…/…./…….)……,.)`*~-,……….../….|..)…`~-,
……/./.../…,*`-,…..`-,…*`….,---…...\…./…../..|……...¯```*~-
…...(……….)`*~-,….`*`.,-~*.,-*……|…/.…/…/…………\
…….*-,…….`*-,...`~,..``.,,,-*……….|.,*...,*…|…...\
……….*,………`-,…)-,…………..,-*`...,-*….(`-,…
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DON'T FACE PALM ME BOY! I'll link you to a rolling duck faster than you can say "I'm never gonna give you up!"
 
Samochan

Samochan

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
3,450
Location
I'm in your house, dsmashing your tv
We shouldn't care about that Linkplayer troll anymore, cause he got what he was asking for. ^^

I don't like that certain image he posted, but some of that type can be quite hilarious.

NO ITEMS

FOX ONLY

Final Destination

But yea, back on topic.
 
H

homsar

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
800
Location
Pickering, Ontario
All I have to say is that nothing (expect the few harcore fighting games) are meant to be competitive to start.

Even sports just started as and idea to have some fun.
 
P

PraKirJaq

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
206
Location
Richardson, Texas
=Samus-Aran=: The thing is, melee and 64 could easily do both. The average player could play with his group of friends and the more competitive players could play with others their skill level. Granted, some jerks might come along and wreck a few battles here and there, but the game was overall very versatile. Sakurai did add depth into those games; as stated before he could have easily just made every move's hitboxes quite stable instead of having sweetspots and differing properties. For example, all of Roy's and Marth's sword hits can be the same, regardless of where it hit. Luigi's dair in melee would always hit the opponent up instead of spiking if you hit with Luigi's back. He could have easily not added IASA frames onto moves and give fox the ability to shine. He already knew of fastfall, short hop, and l/z-cancel, but he still put them in Melee. Wavedash is iffy though; he knew it existed but probably didn't know the full implementation of it.

But now, he took them away. I'll use the E-For All point. Again. Dash dance was in there and it was taken out in the final version.

Darkjaws: The main reason why most are complaining is that there are pretty much no combos and Sakurai himself tried to demolish competitive play. 64 was slower than Melee, but some people actually prefer it to Melee. Combos kept the game balanced mentality wise. Just because you camp does not mean that you'll succeed; you were always on your toes because if you screwed up, you'd be comboed hard, IF your opponent was good. Even then, if you could play defensively, you could get out. In Brawl, campers no longer need to care if they get hit or not; combos will go to three to four hits AT MAX, even if the comboer can predict your DI perfectly.

Pretty much: Melee had a more balanced mindset while Brawl has "campers win" mindset, or at least with our field of play so far.
 
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LouisLeGros

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
403
Location
Seattle
BlackYoshi7 said:
That's a huge difference. The Starcraft competitive scene is much, much bigger than SSB and is a more popular game in general. The game itself is built from the groundup considering multiplayer competition. SSB was never built that way. It was built for parties. And for Starcraft 2, for multiplayer balance testing, they are bringing in top pros to test and help them out with the balancing. I doubt Sakurai even balance tested 1v1 without items, because he couldn't imagine why anyone would play the game any other way than with items and preferably with 4 people on Rumble Falls. So his answer to the game being too campy by projectile users would be to "pick up the Franklin Badge".
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Why don't you go back and read the post I quoted and then read mine again.

Look for my mentions of Brawl being built from the ground up for competitive balance.

The question and my response was not in regard to Brawl. There are developers who try to make a game balanced for competitive play. They do this in every genre and a lot of them do it for competitive communities that are much smaller then that of smash bros.

So ya Melee's 7 million or something units sold doesn't really compare to Starcraft's 15 million (I really don't know the specific numbers), but that has no bearing on what kind of initative the developer would have to make Brawl competitively viable.
 
S

Saje

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 20, 2002
Messages
28
Location
New York
Sigh... This is honestly very disheartening. I never expected Brawl to cater entirely to the competitive crowd, to do so would be foolish. Nintendo has to justify its costs and to do so the game has to sell and to sell it has to appeal to the much larger, non-competitive fan base. That's all well and good. But to honestly take such a design philosophy and implement it in such a manner as to screw over the smaller market that Nintendo wouldn't even notice in the numbers... The changes necessary to allow the two to co-exist are fairly small and insignificant, all he had to do was keep in the Advanced Techniques from Melee and let the players sort themselves out.

By removing all of the barriers that Sakurai felt existed between the casual fan base and the competitive one, he's essentially eliminated the possibility of a decent competitive scene. To see the way the metagame is devolving into a campfest where no one can safely approach another person because every decent manner of doing so was nixxed, it honestly just makes me want to go back to Melee/another game despite my love for some of Brawl's new characters/mechanics.

Speaking of anti-competitive changes made in Brawl, when using old characters, has anyone gotten the impression that the developers looked for every move we tended to "overuse" and nerf them? Missiles, Mario F-Air, Peach D-Smash, Shine, Falco D-Air, Yoshi F-Air/D-Smash, so on and so forth?
 
Nobie

Nobie

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Messages
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SDShamshel
3DS FC
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No one has actually explained what makes a campfest non-competitive, other than "oh man it's so boring."

Do you see? Saying that Brawl is a "campfest" is saying just that and nothing more. The most it speaks about is the person making the comment, and the underlying message is "I prefer games with a strong emphasis on offense and plenty of rewards for going on the offensive."

Because there are plenty of competitive games that do not rely on whatever it is you think makes Melee competitive but Brawl not.
 
S

Saje

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 20, 2002
Messages
28
Location
New York
Nobie said:
No one has actually explained what makes a campfest non-competitive, other than "oh man it's so boring."

Do you see? Saying that Brawl is a "campfest" is saying just that and nothing more. The most it speaks about is the person making the comment, and the underlying message is "I prefer games with a strong emphasis on offense and plenty of rewards for going on the offensive."

Because there are plenty of competitive games that do not rely on whatever it is you think makes Melee competitive but Brawl not.
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You're right. It is a matter of personal opinion. I would prefer having more offensive options than I currently have in Brawl. But at the same time, I do not feel there should be less defensive options, I simply wish there was a better balance. If certain characters could be played with a campy playstyle while others could be played with an all out offensive playstyle, I would want for both to be viable tactics, but at this point in time they aren't. But again, this is still personal opinion.

To actually look at the competitiveness of the game, perhaps it's wrong to say the the campy game that's developing is less competitive. However, I feel fairly confident in saying that a purely defense based competitive game is less popular than either a purely offense or a balanced offense/defense based game. As such, Brawl's competitive scene could turn out to be its own death simply because there are far fewer people interested in the style of play developing.
 
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LOL_Master

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
1,378
Location
New Jersey
listen noobs, stfu, call yourself casuals, wahtever the FFFFuddrucker you want, but you ultimately do want to win so stop bull****ting, everyone wants to win, that's why they play, hell, people play mario party hope they win, unfortunately, melee requires skills and smarts to play, which the majority of people doesn't have....but johns and say they are casual.....oh and suck my balls
 
I

Ichida

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
895
Location
Toronto
LOL_Master said:
listen noobs, stfu, call yourself casuals, wahtever the FFFFuddrucker you want, but you ultimately do want to win so stop bull****ting, everyone wants to win, that's why they play, hell, people play mario party hope they win, unfortunately, melee requires skills and smarts to play, which the majority of people doesn't have....but johns and say they are casual.....oh and suck my balls
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You, sir, are the epitome of everything wrong with SmashBoards.

Congratulations.
 
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