I.T.P
Smash Ace
this video of me playing the last ever SSBM Tourney winner in Japan disagrees with you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_X-83HPZJY
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Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise
- Thread starter Gimpyfish62
- Start date
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_X-83HPZJY
IWontGetOverTheDam
Smash Lord
If a game has a winner and loser, it is competitive. If you strive to win the match, guess what? That's competitition. Get over your Melee definition of "competitive" and see the word for what it means: Wanting to win. That's all it is. (I happen to think of Mario Party as rather competitive sometimes)
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
I.T.P
Smash Ace
but speed doesn't make\break a game, don't you people realize that? Brawl fights are much harder for me than melee fights, because you have to allways watch out for stale moves, hit stun, campablity and more, while doing your best to manipulate these for your own advantage.
the fact that you don't need to be a tech skill god to play brawl and you're actually competing in strategic thought over all else, and the game focuses on timing skill and not button pressing skill makes me enjoy it and like it all the more.
not to mention it's super-balanced in comparison to melee, or at least feels that way. I just think overall brawl will be even more competetive than melee was, the only flaw I actually agree with is tripping, and it's not that big a deal.
the fact that you don't need to be a tech skill god to play brawl and you're actually competing in strategic thought over all else, and the game focuses on timing skill and not button pressing skill makes me enjoy it and like it all the more.
not to mention it's super-balanced in comparison to melee, or at least feels that way. I just think overall brawl will be even more competetive than melee was, the only flaw I actually agree with is tripping, and it's not that big a deal.
I lost to Mango at my last tourny, am I almost the best in the world then?
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
I agree with you completely.
Snake is a great example of this. It seems to me that strategically laying mines and properly timing your grenade throws requires a degree of skill equal to anything seen in Melee.
I.T.P
Smash Ace
Did you see me call myself "best in the world" or "allmost best in the world"? all I said is that I definately don't suck at melee, so your assumption that stating brawl being simpler tech skill wise means I suck in melee is an EPIC FAIL
Edit: Also wiseguy, notice how everyone disses low hitstun and magnet recoveries, but combos and edgehogging\guarding are still very much alive, they're just much harder to do, resulting in a BIGGER gap between skill levels, and not a smaller one.
same goes for DI, with Brawl's OMFG huge DI someone who can DI well will have a huge advantage over someone who can't.
so basically, stop crying and learn to use what's there to the best of your ability. landing on the edge in the exact second marth pulled an Up+B to edgehog him = skill!
Lumpy..
Smash Ace
i think i hate coreygames...
hahaha
hahaha
I.T.P
Smash Ace
I dunno about you, but according to my count, "forEpicFail" is 10char......
Samochan
Smash Master
Actually, it just proves his point. >_> And not only cause - excuse me for saying this - your peach is not that good, but you also play peach, one of the chars that require minimum technical skill to get decent with. So what do you know how players with high tech skill even think when they play? So don't try to act like you know.
Melee is part party game and fightning game. Should fightning games be made less demanding technically? Or less competitive? <_< Melee already was the least technically demanding fightning game on the market, but brawl just dumbed that down, when the only reason to really do that was to make a game easier for beginners and even up the board so much everything is seemingly automatic and you do not have to work any bit to get very good results.
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
You know who does know? Azen. Here's him beating Ken in a 1 vs. 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmIckQF4QG8
Here's what one of the greatest Melee players ever says on the matter:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=516492&topic=42348055&page=1[/QUOTE]
Samochan
Smash Master
Lol Wiseguy, way to go, answering a post that wasn't directed to you with something completely unrelated. Go someplace else to spam that. >_>
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
Just making conversation.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Anyone, including Azen, who thinks brawl is more competitive at the moment is wrong. It is more than obvious that brawl is an inferior game in almost every aspect atm. Azen only said that because he and chillin have dominated that last few brawl tournaments. Plus, his statement doesn't even apply to people like me, who lost every melee tourny they entered (albeit it wasn't very many) and STILL would rather play it than brawl. If people who were good in melee practiced brawl as much as azen and chillin do on a daily basis, they would overthrow them at the next tourny rendering azen's statement about going back to melee only wanting to win money meaningless.
edit: I know Azen is one of the best and most respected smashers, but that does not make him a god on this matter. It is still just his opinion, just like all what I've said is opinion EXCEPT for the painfully obvious FACT that at the moment brawl is not as competitive as melee. That statement CANNOT be argued.
edit: "I wonder why they got ***** in Brawl, maybe its cause Brawl is way more competitive than Melee was" I just realized Azen should have said "Brawl has way more COMPETITION". It's all the noobs who have flooded smashboards these past few months thinking they know **** about smash who are now the majority of our competition. How painful it is for me to utter these words, but it is the sad truth.
edit: I know Azen is one of the best and most respected smashers, but that does not make him a god on this matter. It is still just his opinion, just like all what I've said is opinion EXCEPT for the painfully obvious FACT that at the moment brawl is not as competitive as melee. That statement CANNOT be argued.
edit: "I wonder why they got ***** in Brawl, maybe its cause Brawl is way more competitive than Melee was" I just realized Azen should have said "Brawl has way more COMPETITION". It's all the noobs who have flooded smashboards these past few months thinking they know **** about smash who are now the majority of our competition. How painful it is for me to utter these words, but it is the sad truth.
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
Well I suppose that depends what definition of "competitive" you subscribe to, doesn't it?
One guy (I think his name was Simba) posted a thread a while back defining "competitive" as purely the measurement of skill. Most people, however, consider it to be the mere act or spirit of engaging in competition. Of trying to win. Is that lacking in Brawl? Are we lacking in people willing to compete?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Regardless of their relative skill level.
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
I don't get Azen.
PC doesn't hate Brawl.
KDJ prolly doesn't hate Brawl, he's placing high in Brawl tournaments and won a crystal wii because of one.
Lots of Pros don't actually hate Brawl, a lot just perfer Melee.
And the fact that Azen is angry for once makes it seem like a rant and less believable.
PC doesn't hate Brawl.
KDJ prolly doesn't hate Brawl, he's placing high in Brawl tournaments and won a crystal wii because of one.
Lots of Pros don't actually hate Brawl, a lot just perfer Melee.
And the fact that Azen is angry for once makes it seem like a rant and less believable.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Alright, I suppose it depends on how competitive is defined. However, I'm not saying brawl isn't competitive. I'm saying that at this point in time brawl is less competitive than melee. And here I'm using "competitive" to mean more skilled based and more challenging. Also, don't you think it's sad that in the traditional sense brawl is more competitive than melee because the competition for it is so much more vast? That wouldn't be such a bad thing, but the competition is now comprised of all the scrubs who think they know everything just because they thought melee was glitchy and brawl is new and easy for them to be good at.
Brawl is sort of like Mario party combined with Melee. With the party fun theme turned up and the competitiveness dropped down. Either way I still think Brawl is a good game. Tripping is just kind of silly in my opinion though, it doesn't balance much especially since I trip at random, and so far I haven't gotten KO'd because of it. Brawl will have some level of competition, which I plan on forcing myself into if it gets big enough to encorporate my area. I understand Sakurai's train of thought though, sort of. If I created a game with a particular vision and thousands of people misinterpreted my idea, it would be somewhat unsettling. While I admit I don't miss wavedashing or other techs (in my opinion just practicing an exploit isn't skill, though some of my friends say otherwise) I still want Brawl to be competitive since I missed out on Melee's competitive scene. On a personal note... Why did you nuke Ganon, Sakurai? Of course since he added Wolf, I can sort of forgive that...
LouisLeGros
Smash Journeyman
Merriam Webster said:
It is a skill, no debating it.Wikipedia said:
Also, also on a personal note
What he did to Captain Falcon, through both nerfs which were meant for Captain Falcon's strengths in Melee and how the brawl engine has taken away most of his strength, is unforgivable.
I have to say that I saw this coming before brawl even came out. This is more of a button mashing game than a tactical fighting game. I think that Sakurai had a good thing going with Melee and now brawl has taken a totally different direction. This really disappoints me because if he didnt want it to be competitive then why did he make a fighting game anyways. I think he is trying too hard to impress everybody because regardless someone is gonna be upset and there is nothing he can do to stop that from happening.
Also I must say that I agree with the writer of this message. It's undescibable what he did to the Captain. They should just name him lutenet falcon now cuz he is nowhere near as good as he used to be
3Years
Smash Lord
Melee is ftw =]
Brawl is ftl =[
Brawl is ftl =[
Rhubarbo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2007
- Messages
- 2,035
You know why I love Capcom, because Street Fighter was made to appeal to normal people (back when gaming was limited to the arcades and all gaers were just casual) and then a competitive scene was built around it, they accomodated that scene.
Look, if two casuals play Melee, the game would obviously look like two noobs going at it. In Brawl, two pros will look like two noobs!
Yesterday I brought over a bunch of friends to play Brawl. (I still won every match btw). What did I do because I was dominating every match? We played winner out! It worked and we all had fun!
Sakurai is a big ***. I can understand im taking pride in his series, but it's not meant for noobs. The noob friends I mentioned above actually prefered Wii Sports anyways.
You know how happy I would have been if they made Melee with online like they were planning to? Maybe if they did that there would have been a (good) single player and just more characters, no changed physics.
Next Smash game should not be made by this guy.
P.S. Sorry if this post is a hard read, I wrote it in great frustration!
Look, if two casuals play Melee, the game would obviously look like two noobs going at it. In Brawl, two pros will look like two noobs!
Yesterday I brought over a bunch of friends to play Brawl. (I still won every match btw). What did I do because I was dominating every match? We played winner out! It worked and we all had fun!
Sakurai is a big ***. I can understand im taking pride in his series, but it's not meant for noobs. The noob friends I mentioned above actually prefered Wii Sports anyways.
You know how happy I would have been if they made Melee with online like they were planning to? Maybe if they did that there would have been a (good) single player and just more characters, no changed physics.
Next Smash game should not be made by this guy.
P.S. Sorry if this post is a hard read, I wrote it in great frustration!
Every dog has its day and every good player has bad days. Hiko tried to edgeguard you with Fair repeatedly. Either he was sandbagging or he's waaaay overrated (who the Hell even uses Falco's Fair?!). In fact, he did a whole bunch of cataclysmically stupid things that match.
And you didn't really do anything impressive, really. Sure, you capitalized on his mistakes (a bit) but it wasn't in any way impressive.
Also, let's analyze your first game in that set:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Mu_U2E2G4&feature=related
You did pretty much nothing but Dash attacks, some turnips and Downsmashes. In fact, 75% of all of your attacks that match were downsmashes (most of which whiffed or were shielded). You tried to repeatedly crouch-cancel Falco's Dair into downsmash (which doesn't work, ever). You pretty much only used aerials to edgeguard him. He beat you and he wasn't even playing well. He suicided twice at low %s (below 20)(to be fair, you suicded once as well... at 153%) and still won. He didn't even SHL you that much despite the stage being optimal for it (so maybe he doesn't SHL-spam because he's, I don't know, "honorable"). Heck, he even screwed up majorly when he teched your Dsmash and didn't tech into an Illusion (the most common tech variant for Falco).
And he still beat you at low %s. What does that match say about you?
Bringing up a single video where you're not even playing well and where your opponent is just playing almost-worse is hardly proof of you being good. Someone uploaded a vid of me 5-stocking a Finnish Sheik. I've never even once linked to it anywhere because the only thing that video is a testament to is the Sheik's suckiness in that one match.
1) Making it slower didn't make the game worse. It's the fact that the game is just worse because of a bunch of other things. The slowness of the game is makes the game even worse when coupled with everything else. He could've added a lot of things to compensate for the new "speed", but he didn't. He, however, added a whole bunch of things that made the game worse.You said:
2) So making the game more limited = Making it more strategized? The Stale Move Negation, while a good idea, isn't really that good of an idea in retrospect. Certain moves (Squirtle's U-Tilt, anyone?) can be spammed beyond recognition so that they're godly combo-moves. You'll be limiting your moves of strong moves for KO:ing now, making certain characters' combos very limited since a lot of the best combo-finishers are also the best KO-moves.
3) Timing, not that pressing in Brawl. You don't have to time your recovery or DI... or, well, you have to time them less than in Melee because of auto-sweetspotting and the fact that the freeze frames are horrendous. You have more reaction time. Everything is slower, you have much less hitstun, shielddroplag and shieldstun, giving you a bigger window to punish whiffed/shielded moves. Heck, there aren't even that many combos anymore even withgodly timing because of the new physics. Tell me, what is this new "improved emphasis on timing" you speak of?
4) It might "feel" super-balanced to you because you just don't know how to play certain characters properly yet. And neither do most of your opponents.
[/quote]
Nowhere in there does he say the game is superior to Melee. He just says that certain "old pros" are whining because they didn't actually practice the game before trying to play it and that they just want to stick to Melee because they don't want to have to get better at a "quasi-new" game.
I, however, dislike Brawl because it's an (in my eyes) inferior game (in many ways).
DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
Any factor? Graphics. Now shut your face before you make a fool of yourself.
Actually, you'd be partially wrong there too. Take a close look at Pikachu, Kirby, etc.
Lol, me make myself look like a fool? I'm not a Brawlf@g running around perpetuating the myth that Brawl is better than Melee. It's not better--not by any stretch of the imagination, and you're a ******* for thinking so.
DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
When did I say Brawl was better than Melee other than answering your question? Besides, anything else I would say would spark another ******** Melee vs. Brawl debate, and frankly I'd rather not be the ***got that starts that, unlike you.
LouisLeGros
Smash Journeyman
how much fun are you guys having laughing at us back in the backroom
Samochan
Smash Master
Red Darkstar Kirby, I know you hate brawl, but please do not insult those that happen to like brawl. You're being way too harsh. I'm getting tired of reading your comments and lashing out at people simply due to preference.
Oh and Yuna, you didn't really need to dissect his video that badly lol.
I already told him what he needed to know and asked a question in return.
Oh and Yuna, you didn't really need to dissect his video that badly lol.
I already told him what he needed to know and asked a question in return.It's not an argument of preference; it's not really even an argument. The point I was making wat that Melee is technically and competitively superior to Brawl in just about every way. That point still holds true.Red Darkstar Kirby, I know you hate brawl, but please do not insult those that happen to like brawl. You're being way too harsh. I'm getting tired of reading your comments and lashing out at people simply due to preference.
Oh and Yuna, you didn't really need to dissect his video that badly lol.
Cookiez
Smash Ace
Also, <3 Yuna.
Lord Viper
SS Rank
To tell you the truth, Melee didn't last too long for me. It 's just that it wasn't anything razel dazel in my eyes. Brawl has that unpredictable feeling to it that I like. To say more, I can't understand the real reason why people are so pissed at a game that's already done; countless of people say that Brawl is a real big step over Melee, (don't attack me for saying that), all I got to say is that it's over to still be mad at this game, it's done.
I'm not sure but I think I've seen him post what I thought was weird/bad/stupid things before, but nothing so bad I had to flame him.Red Darkstar Kirby, I know you hate brawl, but please do not insult those that happen to like brawl. You're being way too harsh. I'm getting tired of reading your comments and lashing out at people simply due to preference.
Oh and Yuna, you didn't really need to dissect his video that badly lol.
And then he pulled that video out as a proof of him being a good player. And I couldn't resist. He was being all cocky and "See here! I almost beat someone good!".