Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise

[Testament27]

As much as I hate to admit it, its true. Brawl in general is a game that is held down because of the philosophies' of nintendo's creators. It is amazing, yet it is meant to be an amazing CASUAL experience, not a competitive one. I Love this game, but Nintendo's philosophies have stripped this game of any hope of a competitive scene. If they were serious, they would not have wasted space on masterpieces and they would have set up dedicated servers and a ranking system.
Sakurai and the Nintendo crew are geniuses, but their new philosophies discourage competitive play and they have truly produced a N00B game.
That said, I love Brawl.

 

[uremog]

yes, sakurai is trying to take competition away from the masses.
well, we must show him what we can do!
we must turn brawl into an even more competitive game than melee!
if we can't, we can always ***** and go play melee again.

 

[Lumpy..]

melee is pro...
this post is useless...
yet... i am genius...

 

[fireb0rn]

..........................

 

[Lumpy..]

STOP ARGUING ABOUT THIS!!!!!
IT'S GOING NOWHERE!!!!!!
nobody ever wins these...
just go play and support the game you like more...

i believe the two games can competitively co-exist...

 

[nviv]

Everybody knew that Brawl would not be Melee 2.0 and it certainly is not, the differences were probably greater than most people expected. I feel like the Brawl competitive community is still holding on to Melee and not trying to develop Brawl to an extent. Things like heavy or fast Melee could be possibilities to improve Brawl and as much as I am opposed to it, turning on certain items, if camping starts to become unbeatable. I am not saying any of those will help Brawl, only that if the competitive community has so many complaints widening the spectrum of possibilities could *potentially* help.

 

[sugarpoultry]

I don't even think the makers of Halo expected any competitiveness out of it.

 

[SynikaL]

Really, this article showcases how generally unintelligent Sakurai is more than anything. Conflicting sentiments abound in the article. The very notion that this man instigated the astronomical jump in gameplay mechanics from 64 to Brawl without being governed by competitive philosophies perplexes me.


-Kimosabae

 

[Lumpy..]

i hope i never hear the term "melee 2.0" ever again...

and i don't think it matters now that he didn't want it to be competitive...
i'm sure when the made melee, they weren't trying to make the ultimate tourney game...
they just want to make a fun game that will sell...

what the makers wanted, won't change whether or not we play it competitively...
and we don't HAVE to move onto brawl because it's new...

they are two different games... end of argument...

 

[Pink Reaper]

They may not have wanted to make Melee competitive, but they didn't try and stop it from being competitive. With Brawl it actually seems like they set out to keep it from ever being competitive.

 

[nviv]

I never said people had to move onto Brawl, if people like Melee more play it, but for the people that want Brawl to evolve it could be beneficial to look at it from a new angle.

 

[Lumpy..]

agreed...
that makes good sense...

 

[Gluttony]

I posted this before in another thread..

Melee takes a lot of skill. I'm not doubting that. My point is that in Brawl thinking is pretty much the main point of the game, however. That as well as a powerful defense. In Brawl you have to predict what your opponent is going to do to try to break your defense. Each characters have many different ways of closing the gap.

Predicting correctly causes them to take some minor damage. I understand that it's not a combo but now they have two options. They can turtle which gives you an edge because now they've taken some damage or they can try again which puts you at another advantage, If they mess up again they're even closer to being finished than before. If they go defensive but are at a higher percent than you.. well.. you can slowly chip at their life to pressure them. This can force them to go offense but completely screw up which would lead to their defeat. There's ways to close the gap to but they're not easy. These ways require skill and are really dangerous in the brawl game.

My point is that Brawl requires completely different tactics but it doesn't necessarily make Melee superior to it. Just different. Melee requires a lot of skill too. Melee also requires fast reflexes but so does Brawl as well. Perhaps not as much as Melee but you got to shield at the right time. You got to evade at the right time. You got to make a decision about what your opponent is going to do to try to break your defense etc. People are trying to make it seem that brawl is 100% skilless but it's not true. I'm not claiming that you're saying that Brawl takes 0 skill but some have. I just wish a competitive scene can coexist and allow both games in on it.

Competitive Brawl is going to exist. There's going to be major tournaments for Brawl. I have no doubt of that. I'm sure these will be just as big if not bigger than melee (simply because of the bigger player base). What this means is that Brawl will be just as competitive as Melee. A game is as competitive as the community makes it. Competitive Brawl isn't luck based. There's skill involed. Even if a lot of it is camping. The problem is that the Melee players simply aren't enjoying the style of Brawl. It's not because they suck without their techniques or anything like that.

The game is so different that they find the style boring. It's not like a traditional fighter at all. The game is closer to chess than a fighter. Now, I'm not claiming it's 100% like chess or just as deep as chess. It's nothing like that. I'm claiming it has more in common with chess than a traditional fighter. So for many of the old Smash fans it's simply not their kind of game. Personally? I love competitive Brawl and Melee.

 

[Lumpy..]

I posted this before in another thread..

Melee takes a lot of skill. I'm not doubting that. My point is that in Brawl thinking is pretty much the main point of the game, however. That as well as a powerful defense. In Brawl you have to predict what your opponent is going to do to try to break your defense. Each characters have many different ways of closing the gap.

Predicting correctly causes them to take some minor damage. I understand that it's not a combo but now they have two options. They can turtle which gives you an edge because now they've taken some damage or they can try again which puts you at another advantage, If they mess up again they're even closer to being finished than before. If they go defensive but are at a higher percent than you.. well.. you can slowly chip at their life to pressure them. This can force them to go offense but completely screw up which would lead to their defeat. There's ways to close the gap to but they're not easy. These ways require skill and are really dangerous in the brawl game.

My point is that Brawl requires completely different tactics but it doesn't necessarily make Melee superior to it. Just different. Melee requires a lot of skill too. Melee also requires fast reflexes but so does Brawl as well. Perhaps not as much as Melee but you got to shield at the right time. You got to evade at the right time. You got to make a decision about what your opponent is going to do to try to break your defense etc. People are trying to make it seem that brawl is 100% skilless but it's not true. I'm not claiming that you're saying that Brawl takes 0 skill but some have. I just wish a competitive scene can coexist and allow both games in on it.

Competitive Brawl is going to exist. There's going to be major tournaments for Brawl. I have no doubt of that. I'm sure these will be just as big if not bigger than melee (simply because of the bigger player base). What this means is that Brawl will be just as competitive as Melee. A game is as competitive as the community makes it. Competitive Brawl isn't luck based. There's skill involed. Even if a lot of it is camping. The problem is that the Melee players simply aren't enjoying the style of Brawl. It's not because they suck without their techniques or anything like that.

The game is so different that they find the style boring. It's not like a traditional fighter at all. The game is closer to chess than a fighter. Now, I'm not claiming it's 100% like chess or just as deep as chess. It's nothing like that. I'm claiming it has more in common with chess than a traditional fighter. So for many of the old Smash fans it's simply not their kind of game. Personally? I love competitive Brawl and Melee.

well...

...1... i don't necessarily agree with everything you've just said... but i like that you're not being ignorant... you make good points...

...2... i think a lot of the "pro-melee" or "anti-brawl" smashers are still having fun with melee... and don't want to play a different game yet (like brawl)...

...3... yes... i am camping the boards out of pure boredom...

 

[NilliX]

When Melee was released as a party fighter, we all remember those good old days where we didn't know what a dash-dance or an L-cancel was, and we found it really hilarious to get our faces ploughed through by Roy's fully charged shield-breaker. Sakurai's intentions had pulled through, because everyone was having a laugh no matter what.
And then, all of a sudden, we looked at a few Melee matches on the internets, and we thought "How are these guys moving so fast?!" This is the turn-around, where Melee becomes less fun and more of a fight to test whose better. Victory feels satisfying, defeat sucks but it drives us to improve.

I tried to get those feelings from playing Brawl, but I couldn't muster it, because it's just so much fun for everyone that the feeling is intoxicating. In Melee you played Teams with the stone-cold determination to win. In Brawl, you can't play a teams match without laughing at the poor sod whose stock have been depleted within the first minute. They're laughing too, even if they're losing, because they're having a great time with their mates.

I suppose i'm trying to sum it up to this.

Melee was like Brawl once, a fun bit of smashing that anyone could get into. But once it took off, Melee became less a fun game and more of a fierce competition or a second job. It delivered satisfaction instead of fun, which are two different things entirely.

Brawl, in my opinion, is a lot more fun. It's almost a holiday break from the exhausting speed and mountain of Advanced Tech that you had to scale to reach the top of Melee Mountain. It's a game that anyone can get into and have some laughs, and i've definately found that playing SSBB is a lot more fun than playing SSBM. Final Smashes are a great way to boost the laughs, too. I'm serious, they're brilliant.

For some, sure it's not their cup of coffee to simply sit back and float around free from the cares of the L trigger, but that's the hardened pros that don't want to lose their focus on the competition. And kudos to them and their fortitude, by all means. But the less inclined, like me, may just fancy that relaxed, fun feeling that was missing from Smash for so long.

I'm just loving Brawl for what it is, not hating it for what the developers made it into. It's their game, after all!

 

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

Sakurai didn't want Melee to be competetive, and look where we are. There's no way Brawl won't be competitive. There will be a competitive community for Brawl. And it will begin when the people who say things like "Brawl=/=Melee so therefore Brawl=/=Good" are few and far between in the community.

 

[Corigames]

When Melee was released as a party fighter, we all remember those good old days where we didn't know what a dash-dance or an L-cancel was

Stop there. Z canceling in 64 directly translated to Melee. So know, I don't remember not L-canceling.

 

[Yuna]

I never said people had to move onto Brawl, if people like Melee more play it, but for the people that want Brawl to evolve it could be beneficial to look at it from a new angle.

What new angle? What possible use could "Kishimoto doesn't want the game to be competitive" have for the competitive Brawl crowd trying to evolve the game?

 

[LavisFiend]

You know what would be hilarious as hell?

If someone hacked Brawl and put in a string of code to recreate a variation of a wavedash, and people start to use it so much that Sakurai has to recall all the Brawls to fix it.

I said it before and I will say it again. Sakurai is a casual player himself, and his views of competition are just basic fighting. Basically, any time you start a match, you are in competition and it only ends with one winner.

He is completely oblivious of this competitive scene and it's wants, simply because there is a contradiction in thoughts.

So although the game may not be competitive from a competitive player's standpoint, it is competitive from a casual players standpoint (sakurai.)

 

[I.T.P]

I won't bother responding to that vid, cause It's only one random vid I managed to record at the first tournament I went to way back, and I have played much better matches against the Japanese players and I have a bunch of vids I never bothered Uploading still on a VHS.

what I did want to say, is the only reason I brought up that vid, is because some guy said "you think simplicity in controls is good, that means you probably suck at melee" and that's wrong, I wasn't trying to be cocky or any BS like that, just to say "I am entitled to my own opinion on brawl, whether or not I'm good at Melee, and yes, I'm good at melee".

now, I know I don't care what you think of my vids or Melee play style, but don't go and offend my opponents for no good reason, Vall3y,Void and Fizz(the other top 4 members of our community) are very good players, and you're welcome to youtube those names and tell me what you think of them, if they suck in your opinion, good for you, I happen to know they are very good players by any standard.

about the arguments I posted, that's how I feel about the game, and I'm entitled to feel and think that way, I am not a brawl fanboy, and I liked Melee enough to be competetive in it, host tournaments, and make sure the community for it is growing and evolving, just because I think brawl is a great game that will become better with time, and that I'm enjoying it just as much as Melee, doesn't make me a noob, or a bad Melee player, or any of that.

and stop with the hating and flaming allready, I was just posting my opinion, and I'm entitled to do so, if you're looking to flame or rant, go somewhere else.

 

[Corigames]

Opposing opinions are allowed to exist too.

 

[I.T.P]

Opposing opinions are allowed to exist too.

apparently this board doesn't allow them, as people with opposing opinions to mine decide to flame me, bash my melee skills when I wasn't even basking in them(for the last time, all I was saying is that I'm a veteran Melee player with lots of experience) and decide to call everything I say "stupid" or put names on me.

next you'll be imitating that idiot from the tactical board that flamed me for putting the fact I'm a moderator for a smash community in my title\sig, WTF is up with this place lately?

 

[Corigames]

WTF is up with this place lately?

1. New people
2. Brawl

 

[thumbswayup]

You know what would be hilarious as hell?

If someone hacked Brawl and put in a string of code to recreate a variation of a wavedash, and people start to use it so much that Sakurai has to recall all the Brawls to fix it.

I said it before and I will say it again. Sakurai is a casual player himself, and his views of competition are just basic fighting. Basically, any time you start a match, you are in competition and it only ends with one winner.

He is completely oblivious of this competitive scene and it's wants, simply because there is a contradiction in thoughts.

So although the game may not be competitive from a competitive player's standpoint, it is competitive from a casual players standpoint (sakurai.)

You misunderstand. Sakurai does not believe in competition. The man has a childish philosophy on competitiveness in games. He never wanted even the casual gamers to compete. To him, every game ends in a tie because both players tried hard and had a good time. Why this man hasn't been assassinated is a mystery for the ages.

Also, brawl is an inferior game to melee. There is no arguement, so stop *****ing about it. I'm not saying in a few years it won't come close to where melee is now, I'm saying that at this point in time it is such a weaker game that it's almost not worth playing.

 

[Giga Hand]

Isn't it possible to have fun while being competitive? Like, having a good laugh at yourself when you accidentally miss a grab and get killed?

Just try. That's all I'm saying. Oh, and that... never mind.

 

[Narukari]

Well, I've read through the 30+ pages of this thread (whoo...what a night), and I've generally come up with these opinions based on everything I've heard and what I feel about Sakurai's standpoint.



--You can skip this part, It's just me ranting on about pointless stuff.--


1. Please stop using the word fun,

The word fun just signifies enjoyment. When your saying that Sakurai is focusing on making the game fun instead of competative, you're comparing a vague word to a descriptive one. Don't take me too seriously on my next comment but a bed of nails is fun to people who enjoy challenging themselves to take as much pain as possible, but were not here saying that the bed of nails is superior to melee because people can have fun with it.

You need to use a word a little more descriptive than fun. "Competative play is not fun." doesn't mean anything of use. "Competative play is more tense than casual play." Would better convey what your trying to say.

Some people enjoy being on the edge of their seat while they're playing a Brawl match, where they are pitting their wile and tactics against a similar opponent. This is


2. Opinion =/= Fact

A lot of people mess this one up. "Brawl focuses more on fun than Melee"(theres that evil word again). That is an opinion. Facts are either true or false. An example of a fact is "There is tripping in Brawl." An opinion would be "People hate that there is tripping in Brawl." Just remember that opinions are different between every single poster in this thread, to argue them is meaningless. When your using opinions, just say that "Some people hate that there is tripping in Brawl." This lets the reader know that you acknoledge that there are people who don't mind/like the fact that there is tripping in Brawl.

This is one of the biggest mistakes people make in posts. I'm sure that even in this very post that I even stated one of my own opinions as being fact. It's hard to keep track of it but it does reduce the amount of flaming if you people don't believe that you think your opinion is what everybody else thinks.


---Continuing on---


I think the whole point about there being more 1hit ko items in brawl is moot, because I've never seen a tournament happen where they leave items on.

I believe that taking out dash-dancing, l-canceling, and wave-dashing is acceptable based on the way that Sakurai is trying to create thet game. I could care less whether they were glitch or not. Taking out those techniques may have lowered the tech-savyness of the game, but it does make the system a little easier to understand which is what Sakurai is going for in the Smash series.

I agree that tripping seems to be just a smack in the face of all the competative players out there. It doesn't seem to add any sort of enjoyment to the game, doesn't make the game simpler for the general audience, but adds a system of randomness to fights that competative players try very hard to keep ?unrandom?(the word is on the tip of my tounge).

Competitive players are not the target audience. There's just too many people, they want to keep as many fans of the series as possible, and if they throw in some advanced techniques(l-canceling, dash-dancing). The people who have them integrated into their fighting style will annihalate any group of 3 in a free for all if they don't know those techniques. This generally leads to those 3 (usually kids) getting frustrated and they won't like the game anymore. Remember that Nintendo is a corporation, and sadly, that money is the number one worry when it comes to making games.


I might have more to say on the matter later, but I've typed about all I can type right now. Sorry if I offend anyone, I try to say my opininon without saying I have the only one.

 

[Wiseguy]

1. Please stop using the word fun,

The word fun just signifies enjoyment. When your saying that Sakurai is focusing on making the game fun instead of competative, you're comparing a vague word to a descriptive one. Don't take me too seriously on my next comment but a bed of nails is fun to people who enjoy challenging themselves to take as much pain as possible, but were not here saying that the bed of nails is superior to melee because people can have fun with it.

You need to use a word a little more descriptive than fun. "Competative play is not fun." doesn't mean anything of use. "Competative play is more tense than casual play." Would better convey what your trying to say.

Some people enjoy being on the edge of their seat while they're playing a Brawl match, where they are pitting their wile and tactics against a similar opponent.

Competititve itself is also a pretty vauge word, since people mean so many things by it. Some folks would have you believe its purely to do with skill measurement. Others say its merely the act of engadging in competition. Others say its the willingness of a large number of people to enter competitions. Others say its the state of mind people have while competing, or the drive to win. (Note: at least four of the five definitions mentioned give the edge to Brawl.)

People do indeed find different things fun. But how they achieve this is irrelivant. It matters not whether they play with tournament rules or a coin match on New Pork City, as long as the players gets enjoyment from the experience. The question is: will Brawl provide a greater ammount of enjoyment for the greatest number of Smash Bros fans?

Answer: yes. And that being the case, Brawl is a superior game in the only way that matters.

 

[Narukari]

Competititve itself is also a pretty vauge word

I agree, its usually pretty hard to find the exact word your looking for to use. Everybody does it, especially me.

I just get a little annoyed when people use the word fun and competitive as if they are seperate ways of playing. I can see every activity under the sun being fun to somebody. Same goes for competitive.

[QUOTE}Brawl is a superior game in the only way that matters.[/QUOTE]

Hoo boy...well...definitly from Nintendo's standpoint it is, it's the way to attract more income.


So far, I've had more enjoyment practicing my melee skills than brawl, but I will definitly be sticking it out with Brawl untill the next Smash game is released. If that means camping with ranged weapons is the only way to gain an advantage, I have my tent and bow ready to weather the storm.


---Trying to at least make some part of my post on topic---

Almost everything Sakurai did with brawl seems to me to be a way to attract the 95% of Brawl players that might not play as long as us, but they are the ones that will be paying $50 for the game. If Smash became a game where there were enough skilled people to where nobody could get into the game anymore, sales would start dropping because players would feel that its futile to even try to get into the game anymore. While most people on here would disagree with that line of thinking, Sakurai has to think about what is going to attract new customers, while retaining as many of the old ones as possible. Tournament players just aren't a big enough portion of the market yet.

I still cannot come up with a good reason for tripping. Believe me I've tried.

 

[thumbswayup]

Answer: yes. And that being the case, Brawl is a superior game in the only way that matters.

The only way that matters is gameplay and skill, neither of which brawl excels in. It's only being played competitively because of it's popularity, and everyone seems to feel they must follow suit. However, many people, pros even, are slowly moving back to melee (chudat, wife) or at least play it way more than brawl. The point here being is that if brawl continues as it is with no breakthrough in advanced techniques it will be discarded and melee will once again reign supreme.

 

[derf]

i *hope* melee makes a comeback if brawl continues to be mediocre. but somehow, they'd have to work around the fact that new guys are going to play brawl, not melee. its gonna take some creative tournament marketing to say the least.

 

[Sandwich]

This thread is still going strong, I see.

 

[Raikage]

This thread just shows why Smash will never be taken seriously by any other fighting game community, ever. Just a bunch of high school kids squabbling over nonsense. Brawl is a more competitive game than melee, why? Because the game is easier to play, thus the pool of good players will be larger thus making a bigger and better competitive scene.

Easier to play does not mean the game has no depth. And being easy to play while retaining depth is something every single fighting game strives for. Most fighting game fans would be ecstatic at any change which makes their game more appealing to bring in new blood for competition, but not the Smashers. They're just too busy worrying that new players might actually beat them, thus the cries of it having 'no depth'. Which are completely and utterly false.

The community for this game is a joke.

 

[Wiseguy]

I agree, its usually pretty hard to find the exact word your looking for to use. Everybody does it, especially me.

I just get a little annoyed when people use the word fun and competitive as if they are seperate ways of playing. I can see every activity under the sun being fun to somebody. Same goes for competitive.

I completely agree, but it goes both ways. You've got some Smashers saying "the way elitist players play is not fun." And you've got others saying "the way scrubs play is not competitive." Both are stupid ways of thinking.

If you try to win, you are a competitive Smasher. If you are enjoying yourself, the way you play Smash is fun. End of story.

Hoo boy...well...definitly from Nintendo's standpoint it is, it's the way to attract more income.


So far, I've had more enjoyment practicing my melee skills than brawl, but I will definitly be sticking it out with Brawl untill the next Smash game is released. If that means camping with ranged weapons is the only way to gain an advantage, I have my tent and bow ready to weather the storm.


---Trying to at least make some part of my post on topic---

Almost everything Sakurai did with brawl seems to me to be a way to attract the 95% of Brawl players that might not play as long as us, but they are the ones that will be paying $50 for the game. If Smash became a game where there were enough skilled people to where nobody could get into the game anymore, sales would start dropping because players would feel that its futile to even try to get into the game anymore. While most people on here would disagree with that line of thinking, Sakurai has to think about what is going to attract new customers, while retaining as many of the old ones as possible. Tournament players just aren't a big enough portion of the market yet.

I still cannot come up with a good reason for tripping. Believe me I've tried.

It's worth noting that a) lots of the people who played Melee for years and years were not all that concerned about being the best. They just loved the game that much.

The only way that matters is gameplay and skill, neither of which brawl excels in. It's only being played competitively because of it's popularity, and everyone seems to feel they must follow suit. However, many people, pros even, are slowly moving back to melee (chudat, wife) or at least play it way more than brawl. The point here being is that if brawl continues as it is with no breakthrough in advanced techniques it will be discarded and melee will once again reign supreme.

Wrong. The point of videogames is not to measure skill. This is merely a means to an end: which is to have fun. And most people get their fun regardless of skill measurement.

Also, not every Melee Pro is abandoning Brawl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmIckQF4QG8

I like how everyone in the Top 10 except me and Chillin hate Brawl. They all got so depressed when they went to brawl tournies hoping to win money easily then getting ***** instead. The only reason they want to go back to Melee is so they can win cash again. I wonder why they got ***** in Brawl, maybe its cause Brawl is way more competitive than Melee was. They were too cocky to realize that their Top positions might be in danger, and now they make excuses saying Brawl is too easy and anyone can win. No Jones losers. Maybe they should actually start practicing instead of wishing their Melee skill carried over to Brawl. Brawl is already super competitive, it won't be easy for anyone to get to the Top, so many people are trying to get good now; you can't be cocky just cause you were pro in Melee. Its a new game, not Melee 2.0.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=516492&topic=42348055&page=6

 

[I.T.P]

This thread just shows why Smash will never be taken seriously by any other fighting game community, ever. Just a bunch of high school kids squabbling over nonsense. Brawl is a more competitive game than melee, why? Because the game is easier to play, thus the pool of good players will be larger thus making a bigger and better competitive scene.

Easier to play does not mean the game has no depth. And being easy to play while retaining depth is something every single fighting game strives for. Most fighting game fans would be ecstatic at any change which makes their game more appealing to bring in new blood for competition, but not the Smashers. They're just too busy worrying that new players might actually beat them, thus the cries of it having 'no depth'. Which are completely and utterly false.

The community for this game is a joke.

You, my dear sir, are completely right.

I don't agree with your contempt for the Community or your name calling, but I completely agree on your point.

 

[GreenKirby]

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=516492&topic=42348055&page=6

The ironic thing is that if an everyday Joe said this, he would be flamed.

Besides, why would Azen post in the Brawl boards on GAMEFAQS? O_o

 

[thumbswayup]

To wiseguy: The point of a video game is to have fun. The point of a competitive video game is to show skill through accuracy and precision in order to prove who is the best, while having fun. When I first started playing melee competitively, I was horrible and couldn't even wavedash. Regardless, I still had a blast everytime I got 4 stocked. The more I practiced, the easier I could execute the AT. Now, despite still losing the majority of the time, I enjoy the game much more because I understand how to play it better. I can do many amazing things in the game, but I will lose to all the pros. Nevertheless, I have a great time each and every match I play.

Also, I know that every pro is not going back to melee. I never said all of them were. Just a handful right now. I already read that post by Azen, but it's meaningless to people like me, the ones who played melee all the time but still lost money. I'm not going back to melee to win money, I'm going back because it's the most fun I've ever had playing a video game. Ever.

 

[chaosGanondorf]

Halo 3 is mush better than CoD4. All most no one plays CoD4 down here in TX.

 

[Wiseguy]

To wiseguy: The point of a video game is to have fun. The point of a competitive video game is to show skill through accuracy and precision in order to prove who is the best, while having fun.

Fun fact: every multiplayer game is competitive if it allows for competition. Skill measurement is something different.

And I think people measure skill because they find it fun in and of itself. Great for them. But its not a superior way of having fun, because there is no superior way. Period.

When I first started playing melee competitively, I was horrible and couldn't even wavedash. Regardless, I still had a blast everytime I got 4 stocked. The more I practiced, the easier I could execute the AT. Now, despite still losing the majority of the time, I enjoy the game much more because I understand how to play it better. I can do many amazing things in the game, but I will lose to all the pros. Nevertheless, I have a great time each and every match I play.

Also, I know that every pro is not going back to melee. I never said all of them were. Just a handful right now. I already read that post by Azen, but it's meaningless to people like me, the ones who played melee all the time but still lost money. I'm not going back to melee to win money, I'm going back because it's the most fun I've ever had playing a video game. Ever.

Some people like Melee better. Great for them. Different people like different things. But it in no way makes Brawl inferior.

Brawl is the way it is because of intentional design choices, decisions that make the game more fun for more players. If you don't like the way it turned out, its because you aren't buying what Sakuari is selling. Not because the "competitive" community was wronged.

 

[OTRU...]

As far as it goes to people saying that they prefer brawl over melee just because they never won a match in melee, all I can say is that they need to mature. I think a competitive game becomes more fun as it is more difficult to become good at it, its just part of the learning process in anything not just games.

The sweet is never the sweet without the sour.

 

[<π]

This thread just shows why Smash will never be taken seriously by any other fighting game community, ever. Just a bunch of high school kids squabbling over nonsense. Brawl is a more competitive game than melee, why? Because the game is easier to play, thus the pool of good players will be larger thus making a bigger and better competitive scene.

Easier to play does not mean the game has no depth. And being easy to play while retaining depth is something every single fighting game strives for. Most fighting game fans would be ecstatic at any change which makes their game more appealing to bring in new blood for competition, but not the Smashers. They're just too busy worrying that new players might actually beat them, thus the cries of it having 'no depth'. Which are completely and utterly false.

The community for this game is a joke.

I feel the same way. unfortunately I'm not really all that big in other competitive community but what I gather on the out side looking in is pretty much exactly what you said. A majority of smashers come off to me as whiny and anti-change.