[SA] Adelaide - Valhalla, November

[The_Wookie]

Please note that you have until 6pm Saturday to submit the survey to wookie@valhalla.net.au. The survey is located here. The prize will be drawn at the LAN and you MUST be present to win.

Seating reservations have been updated, you can submit seating reservations without tickets for this LAN ONLY. Tickets will be held until 2pm at the latest unless we are notified otherwise. Seating information and ticket requests should be emailed to seating@valhalla.net.au. For more information on tickets and seating please see this thread

Finally, please note that the Timetable for the event has been released and is available for discussion in
this thread. Please note changes to the console lineups include a later start for the ps3 fighting comps and a much earlier start for the CSS 5v5 Competition. We have also introduced a Smash Bros competition to Valhalla for the first time.

If you have further questions or queries please dont hesitate to email us at committee@valhalla.net.au

 

[Grim Tuesday]

SUPER SMASH BROTHERS MELEE SINGLES RULESET:

OUT-OF-GAME RULES:
• Seeded Double Elimination
• Best 2 out of 3 Games
- If a player who has not yet lost a set loses in the Finals, they are allowed to play another Set (Depending on time).
• In the event of a dispute, controller ports will be selected by Rock-Paper-Scissors
• If a match is to be restarted due to controller functions, it must be agreed upon by both parties.

IN-GAME RULES:
• 4 Stock
• 8-Minute Time Limit
• Items set to "Off" and "None"
• No Stalling - Stalling is the act of deliberately avoiding any and all contact with the opponent for an extended period of time, or performing an unnecessary action that results in time being wasted. Running away to get to a better position is not stalling.
• Players cannot choose a stage that has already been played on in the current Set.
• If both players agree, any stage may be chosen (including Banned stages).
• Any games ending in time running out should always be decided by stock, and then percents. If percents are the same or both players die simultaneously, there will be a 1 stock overttime.

SET FORMAT (IN ORDER OF PROCEDURE):
1. Opponents choose their characters for the first match *
2. Opponents start the stage striking procedure
3. Each player may announce one stage to be banned for counterpicks of the set
4. The first game is played, using the stage chosen during step 2
5. The loser of the previous match announces the next match's stage from either the Starter Stage List or the Counter Stage List
6. The winner of the previous match chooses their character **
7. The loser of the previous match chooses their character
8. Repeat steps 5-7 for all proceeding matches
*Double blind character selection may be called for the first match
** On a player's counterpick, that player may opt to redo the port selection process with that player picking their port first.

STARTER STAGE LIST:
Yoshi's Story
Fountain of Dreams
Battlefield
Dreamland (N64)
Final Destination

COUNTER-PICK STAGE LIST:
Pokemon Stadium
Kongo Jungle (N64)
Rainbow Cruise
Poke Floats
Brinstar

BANNED STAGE LIST:
Any stage not listed above.

If you have any complaints, questions or suggestions, you can:
• PM me here.
• E-mail me at lordsunday@live.com.au
• Contact me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000498646139
• Find me at Valhalla: I am a tall, brown-haired 14 year old, I normally wear a flannelette shirt, hang around the console area and answer to "Mason" or "Grim Tuesday".

 

[Nova]

Lol I was gonna ask when you and Apollo were gonna post the rules when I got home.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Lol I was gonna ask when you and Apollo were gonna post the rules when I got home.

It was just me, I haven't spoken to Apollo on the matter at all.
Like I said at the bottom though, I don't mind if anyone disagrees with the rules and can suggest something else.

Before anyone asks, the rule about players being able to decide if they want to play on a banned stage or with items is because of the number of more casual players at SG who were half-complaining about the restrictive ruleset.

 

[Nova]

That rule is a normal one regardless, so it's fine.
Uh playing on any stage though if it's mutual agreement, not the items, lol.
I dunno about ever allowing items, tbh.
Doesn't matter as long as both people agree or it doesn't happen.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That rule is a normal one regardless, so it's fine.
Uh playing on any stage though if it's mutual agreement, not the items, lol.
I dunno about ever allowing items, tbh.
Doesn't matter as long as both people agree or it doesn't happen.

Well, I don't know about the items. At first I was thinking "Oh yeah, it'll give casual players more of a chance to have fun". But now I'm wondering if it'll screw up the validity and seriousness of the tournament...

 

[zApollo]

Brawl Valhalla Ruleset 21st August

* 3 Stock
* 8 minute timer
* Items are set to "off" and "none"
* All sets with the exception of winner's finals, loser's finals, and the championship are best of 3 matches (best of 5 and above should be played out for any "finals" matches, with the Championship best of three sets). Players from the winning bracket has a set advantage in the championship.

* In the event of a dispute, controller ports will be selected by Rock-Paper-Scissors
* No player may choose a stage they have already won on in that set unless agreed upon by both players.
* In team matches, the ports will be determined in a 1221 fashion; whoever wins the RPS will choose first, then the opposing team will get their ports, and then the teammate of the RPS winner will get the last port.
* If the timer runs out, the victor is determined first by stock and then by percentage.

Set format (In Order of Procedure):
1. Opponents choose their characters for the first match *
2. Opponents start the stage striking procedure
3. Each player may announce one stage to be banned for counterpicks of the set
4. The first game is played, using the stage chosen during step 2
5. The loser of the previous match announces the next match's stage from either the Starter Stage List or the Counter Stage List
6. The winner of the previous match chooses their character
7. The loser of the previous match chooses their character
8. Repeat steps 5-7 for all proceeding matches
*Double blind character selection may be called for the first match


* Metaknight's Infinite Cape glitch is banned.
* If a game ends with Bowser doing his suicide klaw and it ends in sudden death, the sudden death will be ignored and that game will count as a win for Bowser.
* Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, wind power glitches and so forth) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.
* If a match is to be restarted due to controller functions, it must be agreed upon by both parties.
*Stalling* is banned. It is the act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable. Running away from an opponent to reach a better position is not stalling, while doing an infinite grab endlessly against a wall is. Any infinite chain grabs must end quickly after 300% has been reached so as to prevent excessive stalling.

Additional Rules for Doubles Play
* Life Stealing is allowed
* Set team attack to ON


Stages

Starter Stages

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Castle Siege
Pokemon Stadium

Counterpick Stages:

Pokemon Stadium 2
Delfino Plaza (D)
Corneria
Lylat Cruise
Yoshi's Island
Battleship Halberd
Brinstar
Jungle Japes
Norfair
Frigate Orpheon
Pictochat

All other stages are banned for tournaments.


Other Rules
* Port slob picks: On a player's counterpick, that player may opt to redo the port selection process with that player or team picking their port first.
* Resolving Ties: Any games ending in time running out should always be decided by stock, and then percents. If percents are the same or both players die simultaneously, there will be a 1 stock overttime or the sudden death will be played out. The TO needs to decide which of these will be used before the tournament. Bowser's suicide klaw is exempt from this rule.

* Color Blind rule: Should a player have a color-based disability, he or she may request in a teams match to have a specific color for their team. This is so characters such as Lucario or Sonic can be granted the blue team so that there is not unnecessary confusion.
* Wiimotes and Classic Controller users should know to take the batteries out of their controllers after finishing a set; not only will this save battery life, but it prevents accidental intereference and delay for tournament matches.

*Ice Climbers Chain Throw - Is legal, however, extending a chain-throw past 300% will be considered stalling.
*The Dedede Rule
(D) signifies the stage is not selectable if someone is using Dedede, unless both players agree.
Originally proposed by CATS and Shaz this rule is designed to prevent people abusing King DeDeDe's d-throw chainthrow.
Dedede may not choose to play on stages that have a 'D' next to them.
Dedede's opponent may choose to play on one of these stages if they wish. If a random stage is chosen and it comes up with a 'D' stage you and you are against Dedede you may quit and restart within 5 seconds.
*In the case of a console/TV malfunction, the game will be restarted from the beginning, no matter what time it crashed.

copypasted from SG, with a few changes. Items should be banned from tournament play, it's as bad as asking for a timed point scoring match.

 

[Nova]

Errrrrrrrr Corneria a CP?
Wut. >_>
Also Norfair is a little debatable but no where near as bad lol.

Also DDD is not banned on Delfino.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Errrrrrrrr Corneria a CP?
Wut. >_>
Also Norfair is a little debatable but no where near as bad lol.

Also DDD is not banned on Delfino.

Corneria should be banned, the perma-wall is too good. You can survive to ridiculous percents with only average DI, teching and just staying down the bottom.

Norfair is fine.

D3's CG isn't broken enough to warrant him not being allowed on some stages imo.

I have updated my rule list with influences from Apollo's, better formatting, and the removal of the item rule.

On the subject of items though, putting them on a reasonable frequency and turning off all of the stupid ones makes it fair and fun. I've tested it extensively.

 

[Nova]

Competitively, items should never be on.
Depends if both wanna agree to it, I guess.
I never would, though. lol.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Competitively, items should never be on.
Depends if both wanna agree to it, I guess.
I never would, though. lol.

Why shouldn't items be on competitively?
The random aspect of them is not game changing, and they add a whole level of depth to gameplay.

 

[Nova]

Some items simply spawning near someone equates to a free stock.
Captain Falcon (Melee), Sonic (Brawl) would be extremely lol.
Items have the sole purpose of adding a random chance to what many people consider a competitive game (especially Melee).
In terms of the standard Melee ruleset, it'll never be accepted, that's my "competitive" reasoning.

Friendlies, fine. But in tournament level, where people just want NO ITEMS, FOX ONLY, FINAL DESTINATION etc, lol no, never.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Why shouldn't items be on competitively?
The random aspect of them is not game changing, and they add a whole level of depth to gameplay.

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

...

lol
lol
lol
lol
lol
lol
lol
lol
lol

Items are silly.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Some items simply spawning near someone equates to a free stock.
Captain Falcon (Melee), Sonic (Brawl) would be extremely lol.
Items have the sole purpose of adding a random chance to what many people consider a competitive game (especially Melee).
In terms of the standard Melee ruleset, it'll never be accepted, that's my "competitive" reasoning.

Friendlies, fine. But in tournament level, where people just want NO ITEMS, FOX ONLY, FINAL DESTINATION etc, lol no, never.

I agree that they'd never be accepted, but they are certainly fair.
For example, let me propose this ruleset:

ITEM SPAWN RATE - Low > Medium
Sandbag
Food
Warp Star
Bunny Hood
Beam Sword
Lip’s Stick
Star Rod
Super Scope
Fire Flower
Motion Sensor Bomb
Freezie
Smoke Ball
Pitfall
Mr. Saturn
Green Shell
Banana Peel
Franklin Badge
Screw Attack

Wouldn't this only serve to increase the depth of gameplay? The items come randomly sure, but none of them are game-breaking enough for it to matter who gets them.

EDIT: Well, I guess my argument is completely wrong. Turns out "Items are silly", oh well. Disregard this post then.
.
.
.
YEA...no.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Face it guy. The entire smash community will never accept items.

You're fighting an uphill battle. When I say uphill, I mean, Mount Everest kind of uphill battle

So long as the entire community doesn't accept items, they'll never be introduced into competitive play. The argument that items spawn randomly and don't benifit either player (Because it is random) is extremely old and tired.

It just won't happen.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Face it guy. The entire smash community will never accept items.

You're fighting an uphill battle. When I say uphill, I mean, Mount Everest kind of uphill battle

So long as the entire community doesn't accept items, they'll never be introduced into competitive play. The argument that items spawn randomly and don't benifit either player (Because it is random) is extremely old and tired.

It just won't happen.

I agree that they'd never be accepted, but they are certainly fair.

[sarcasm] I can tell you were paying attention to my post while writing that up. [/sarcasm]
I realise that items will probably never be accepted in competitive play on a large scale, but that doesn't mean I should just drop the subject. This is a point I have already made.

I never said anything about items not favouring a player because of their random spawns. I completely disagree with that.

My point was that while they are random, the risk/reward system, skill from the player using them, skill from the player who has to try and avoid them and the fact that they aren't game-breaking when used with the above ruleset I mentioned makes them not only fair, but actually add another level of depth to the game.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

[sarcasm] I can tell you were paying attention to my post while writing that up. [/sarcasm]
I realise that items will probably never be accepted in competitive play on a large scale, but that doesn't mean I should just drop the subject. This is a point I have already made.

I never said anything about items not favouring a player because of their random spawns. I completely disagree with that.

My point was that while they are random, the risk/reward system, skill from the player using them, skill from the player who has to try and avoid them and the fact that they aren't game-breaking when used with the above ruleset I mentioned makes them not only fair, but actually add another level of depth to the game.

I was paying attention, I was just saying you should drop it and don't waste your energy trying to fight for its acceptance.

It won't happen. So what's the point arguing for it?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I was paying attention, I was just saying you should drop it and don't waste your energy trying to fight for its acceptance.

It won't happen. So what's the point arguing for it?

Just like the right for women to vote won't happen, right?

 

[Nova]

wth Aero.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Just like the right for women to vote won't happen, right?

I think comparing the right for women to vote with the right to use items in competitive play is slightly over the top.

wth Aero.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I think comparing the right for women to vote with the right to use items in competitive play is slightly over the top.

It's the same concept though.

How many times do you think the suffragettes were told that everything they were doing was pointless?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Well okay.

Make a thread about it in tactical disscusion.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Well okay.

Make a thread about it in tactical disscusion.

I don't need to:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164675

 

[SethT]

Well okay.

Make a thread about it in tactical disscusion.

I don't need to:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164675

*chuckle*

In my opinion using "items in a game" should warrant a completely different competition. For example have your normal 1v1 comp, then 1v1 items comp.

If you only host one or the other your bound to piss someone off and the majority will (normally) win.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

*chuckle*

In my opinion using "items in a game" should warrant a completely different competition. For example have your normal 1v1 comp, then 1v1 items comp.

If you only host one or the other your bound to piss someone off and the majority will (normally) win.

This is true.

What I am going to do is go around at Valhalla (when I'm asking people if they want to enter the Melee singles), is also ask if they would prefer items on or off.

If I get enough regulars who would play with items on, I might hold side-tourneys in the future.

 

[SethT]

This is true.

What I am going to do is go around at Valhalla (when I'm asking people if they want to enter the Melee singles), is also ask if they would prefer items on or off.

If I get enough regulars who would play with items on, I might hold side-tourneys in the future.

Depends on the crowd of people you get.... if you have players who play comp melee odds are they'll be against it.

You might have to run a tournament to get people interested in the first place....

*shrugs* I had fun playing with certain items on and off.
Some of my more favorite smash memories were with items...

 

[Nova]

I like items if I'm off my face.
But if I'm playing while moderatly normal I'd prefer them off.
Annnd main tourneys (being these ones at Valhalla) should definitely have 'em off.
Doesn't mean a side tourney is a bad idea, though.
Just wait and see how time treats us.

 

[The_Wookie]

we ended up having two tourneys at january reloaded because AVCON use items, and competitive smash generally doesnt. I dont mind the idea of a second tourney purely because it entices more casual players to be involved.

 

[Jamage]

Before anyone asks, the rule about players being able to decide if they want to play on a banned stage or with items is because of the number of more casual players at SG who were half-complaining about the restrictive ruleset.

What the 1 guy who plays Smash 64 but not Brawl or Melee lololololololol. 19 out of about every 20 perfer items off at SG.

If itmes are on and there are no other comps with them off I definatly wont be coming and will be telling everyone else to steer clear of the Smash comps there.

Btw we already have a SA Melee ruleset (kinda old though so it may need some tweaking)

Grim your only about 5 years too late on the item disscussion here. NO JUST NO.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

What the 1 guy who plays Smash 64 but not Brawl or Melee lololololololol. 19 out of about every 20 perfer items off at SG.

If itmes are on and there are no other comps with them off I definatly wont be coming and will be telling everyone else to steer clear of the Smash comps there.

Btw we already have a SA Melee ruleset (kinda old though so it may need some tweaking)

Grim your only about 5 years too late on the item disscussion here. NO JUST NO.

Firstly, about 5 of the people I spoke to preferred items on, you can't deny it wouldn't entice casual gamers to get into competitive smash.

Obviously an only items tournament with no alternatives, would be stupid. That's why I said about running it as a side tournament. Also, this coming from the guy who went to AVCon?

I'm sure the SA Melee ruleset would need tweaking like you said :D

"NO JUST NO" is not a reason for items to be completely ignored, especially when I have put up arguments in their favour which everyone also seems to ignore completely.

Everyone seems to be getting this feeling that when I mention item play I mean:
• Instead of non-item play.
or...
• All items on.

Don't get me wrong guys, I prefer non-item play easily. But if we are talking about helping the SA Smash scene grow, this is a very easy way to do it imo.

 

[Lespar]

Firstly, about 5 of the people I spoke to preferred items on, you can't deny it wouldn't entice casual gamers to get into competitive smash.

Obviously an only items tournament with no alternatives, would be stupid. That's why I said about running it as a side tournament. Also, this coming from the guy who went to AVCon?

I'm sure the SA Melee ruleset would need tweaking like you said :D

"NO JUST NO" is not a reason for items to be completely ignored, especially when I have put up arguments in their favour which everyone also seems to ignore completely.

Everyone seems to be getting this feeling that when I mention item play I mean:
• Instead of non-item play.
or...
• All items on.

Don't get me wrong guys, I prefer non-item play easily. But if we are talking about helping the SA Smash scene grow, this is a very easy way to do it imo.

I prefer items on too .
The 'more skill with items off' argument is obviously valid, however the luck element that items add to the game is awesome. I mean people complain "I would have won if it wasn't for that item spawn" but from the opponent's perspective catching a lucky break like that would be the highlight of the tournament, they would probably join another tournament just to catch that feeling again.

Also, the whole 'the more skilled person wins' concept is boring. When the game is played with the constant potential for the better player to lose it adds a little excitement.


Anyway, I won't be able to make it to Valhalla , hope it goes well so that another tournament is hosted next time

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I prefer items on too .
The 'more skill with items off' argument is obviously valid, however the luck element that items add to the game is awesome. I mean people complain "I would have won if it wasn't for that item spawn" but from the opponent's perspective catching a lucky break like that would be the highlight of the tournament, they would probably join another tournament just to catch that feeling again.

Also, the whole 'the more skilled person wins' concept is boring. When the game is played with the constant potential for the better player to lose it adds a little excitement.


Anyway, I won't be able to make it to Valhalla , hope it goes well so that another tournament is hosted next time

Here is an example of a casual player who would probably go to tournaments for the chance of item play, just like I have been saying.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Items have their own charm.

I mean, having items is that way that the game is really supposed to be played. (Sakurai aimed the game at casual***s rather than tourney***s)

I'd prefer items off though, but items on low are okay.

You'd need a new items tier list though. lolol

 

[Nova]

Ugh.
Cbf voting, tomorrow, but meh.
I'll be at Valhalla around 2.
Leave whenever.
Cyaz there.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Ugh.
Cbf voting, tomorrow, but meh.
I'll be at Valhalla around 2.
Leave whenever.
Cyaz there.

Seeya there.
I'll be there around 1:00 - 2:00ish.

 

[The_Wookie]

If the experiment is successful we're likely to opt for both items and non item competitions.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

If the experiment is successful we're likely to opt for both items and non item competitions.

Wait a sec, I wasn't volunteering to run it this Valhalla. I only do it this time if:
a) I get enough interest from the players there.
b) I have the time to prepare and run it.

I'll be prioritizing the Melee tournament > Brawl Item Side Tournament, so don't get your hopes up anyone. But if I can't do it this tourney, I'll do it next Valhalla.

EDIT: 1000th Post :D

 

[zApollo]

See you guys there at 2ish

 

[Nova]

Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhh
Woke up with a Migraine.
Took 20mgs Oxycodone, hopefully it lifts it, if not I'll pass on today. :/

Edit: Fark it.
Taking 40mgs.
Yay for euphoria.
I'll be there... somehow.
Gotta vote anyway...meh.

 

[Technodeath]

Bahahaha, the random factor in the game.

Frigate flipping while Vlade and Glenn were in the air fighting caused Vlade to fall off and die, in grand finals.

Was an epic, yet frustrating moment for him. Same with the upset with the set between Andre and Gnasch at a tournament a while back.


It is good to see though, that the South Aus scene is slowly developing back up.
I still want to play against you nova Despite the fact I'll most likely lose.