Ryker Mafia Is Over: Ryker Always Wins

[The Account With No Name]

I'm not sure what to think of Zen's claim, but if he's legit, that also leaves me looking strongly at J, because I'm not seeing ScumZapp. However if we lynch J, Zapp and me, all 3 turning out town, we'd obviously lynch Zen next, but that still leaves the horribly crap slot of Dabuz on the table.

Also, the things both Zapp and S-Tier pointed out DO make it look an awful lot like J is indy. I can definitely feel where those vibes are coming from.

I'm down with the plan of following Zen's role (as odd as the role is), but I would really like Dabuz somewhere inbetween because his slot has been **** as well.

Consider me on board on both J and Dabuz, when the time comes to decide a lynch, but I'll keep my vote on Dabuz for the time being.

 

[Gova]

2. dtjglyphmoney (1) Dabuz
3. AM ()
4. The Account With No Name ()
7. Inferno ()
8. giraffelasergun ()
9. Dabunz (4) AM, Glyph, Zapp, TAWNN
10. J (2) S-Tier, Glyph
11. Zapp Brannigan ()
12. S-Tier (2) Inferno, J
13. Swiss ()

Not voting - GLG, Swiss

With 10 playing, it takes 6 to lynch!

Deadline is set for April 25th at 11:59 CST (GMT-6).

 

[zapp brannigan]

Vote: J

@No name: Strictly speaking I'm not inclined to blindly follow Zen's results. It's not that I don't believe the claim, it's more that imo it's too difficult to decipher exactly what his results mean. Zen has said himself that he's not sure on how to clearly interpret them.

 

[zapp brannigan]

/that was Vand, etc.

 

[zapp brannigan]

^ That was Vandy.

MFW I see myself post in the thread somehow.

 

[The Account With No Name]

Yeah forgot to say I'd like to wait until Zen gets his role PM and can give us confirmation of what his role exactly does and means.

 

[zapp brannigan]

I'm fine with the direction I'm interested in what Dabuz would say

 

[#HBC | J]

But yeah, without reading toDay, so far totally happy going down the J route. It'll shed a lot of light on S-Tier who people for some reason still don't like.

Zapp(moreso the Vandy side) is blind to Zen's scumminess that people in this game (i.e. Myself/Inferno/AM/Swiss) have seen/shown/explained/yelled/preached because Zen is brown-nosing Vandy for all it's worth by being his little sheep. Zapp's case on me is full of air. The bottom line of it all for why he finds me scummy is purely based on mine/his reads on Zen disagreeing. It is hallow and actually lacks meat. He hasn't brought up any of my other actions and actually in the post he brings up things he agrees with/needs to look into/finds not scummy. Anything with the words, "Zen is scummy" make Vandy go all crazy because he has a town read on Zen. Well, boo-hoo I don't and so don't others. It is an incredibly shallow analysis of my play limiting its focus on one single fact which is my Zen read and I'm not going to apologize/change my mind and agree with Vandy just to stop my lynch.

Glyph's voting me on a really dumb PoE process theory that is flawed because he sounds like he is blindly trusting Zen, even though he has a scum-read on him. What idiocy, he even admits to not reading the entire game/play of either slots and just makes a BS assumption.

AM/dabuz are actually coming in with their heads screwed on straight and actually analyzing the situation. They have dissected the claim and also considered other facts.

Also, the things both Zapp and S-Tier pointed out DO make it look an awful lot like J is indy. I can definitely feel where those vibes are coming from.

You need to outline where their posts make me come across as indy and where exactly you get the vibes from. Anyone can throw out arbritrary agreement statements, however, you need to come on with the come on.

 

[#HBC | J]

I will defend to freaking high heaven and back that Zen's "ability" is a full-blown gambit that is so full of **** it isn't even funny. This reeks of Zen's funny business that I can't even believe people are falling it for it. I have done everything in my power to show that I'm town and I have analyzed so much stuff this game it isn't even funny. Zen's using this gambit as an attempt to get me lynched by trying to make it seem like an ultimatum between town's two biggest town reads collectively and myself, a null-read, and its just infuriating.

 

[Dabuz]

Not fine with believing and following the claim.

I'm not sure what to think of Zen's claim, but if he's legit, that also leaves me looking strongly at J, because I'm not seeing ScumZapp. However if we lynch J, Zapp and me, all 3 turning out town, we'd obviously lynch Zen next, but that still leaves the horribly crap slot of Dabuz on the table.

This even makes me more worried about the claim, scumtier puts us into lylo with the first three lynches and NKs, then, depending on the strength and mindset of the players scum leaves till this lylo, a final mislynch on me is hard to push, not impossible, but hard. GG scum wins. Another problem is if we are dealing with 2 remaining mafia members, they will get at least 2 mislynches (J and TAWNN probs) + 2 NKs. With two remaining mafias, town would actually be at a huge disadvantage. I'm can't see why this claim is believable or why it's worth the risk to follow it.

 

[Dabuz]

Something else about this claim makes me unconvinced. S-Tier tried to deter the Soup wagon and put it on me D2. Since he got the dream with J, TAWNN, and Zap N1, it would have made more sense for him to try and push J. Scum-Tier did have a J read at the time.

 

[Inferno3044]

J im curious on something. What's your posting restriction? I remember you stating that it is affecting how you post and I want to know how.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

J, is S-Tier town?

 

[S-Tier]

Yeah forgot to say I'd like to wait until Zen gets his role PM and can give us confirmation of what his role exactly does and means.

I know what it does, I just don't know what it's called which isn't even really important other than to verify that I'm telling the truth. Even then one could argue that I made it up so I'm not sure why this is critical for you or Inferno.

I will defend to freaking high heaven and back that Zen's "ability" is a full-blown gambit that is so full of **** it isn't even funny. This reeks of Zen's funny business that I can't even believe people are falling it for it. I have done everything in my power to show that I'm town and I have analyzed so much stuff this game it isn't even funny. Zen's using this gambit as an attempt to get me lynched by trying to make it seem like an ultimatum between town's two biggest town reads collectively and myself, a null-read, and its just infuriating.

Not this time bud. When I gambit to get someone lynched I always make a vague claim and leave hints that I'm faking. I am not lying here and the sooner you stop trying to paint it as so, the more productive we can be. If you're indy you can at least help us to find the last mafia. Try and convince us to lynch him over you. Vise-versa if you're mafia.

Not fine with believing and following the claim.

Once again, you don't have to go by the claim if you don't want to. Look at the cases instead.

...Yeah attempting to reason with scum is kind of dumb. I don't know why I'm doing this.

This even makes me more worried about the claim, scumtier puts us into lylo with the first three lynches and NKs, then, depending on the strength and mindset of the players scum leaves till this lylo, a final mislynch on me is hard to push, not impossible, but hard. GG scum wins. Another problem is if we are dealing with 2 remaining mafia members, they will get at least 2 mislynches (J and TAWNN probs) + 2 NKs. With two remaining mafias, town would actually be at a huge disadvantage. I'm can't see why this claim is believable or why it's worth the risk to follow it.

lolwut @ the bold.

Something else about this claim makes me unconvinced. S-Tier tried to deter the Soup wagon and put it on me D2. Since he got the dream with J, TAWNN, and Zap N1, it would have made more sense for him to try and push J. Scum-Tier did have a J read at the time.

If we could lynch more than one person in a day then I would. Soup was obvscum. The only reason I wanted to wagon you was to get something out of the day. It's either get something out of the day or lynch. Once I realized my townmates weren't going to realize this, I simply decided to go with the latter. I left posts to let it be know that J was scum in case I died an wouldn't be able to claim today.

 

[S-Tier]

Request replacement for glg
And also that I get my rpm

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'll give you a prod.

 

[Dabuz]

Look at the bold in context. What I was getting across in there is that by lynching the 3 players in your first dream, then having 3 NKs, it would be LYLO assuming no scum flip and 1 scum left. Scum eliminates all the strong players and leaves the inactive players such as GLG, Glyph, and then you + me. The lynch would be between us two, and despite it being apparent at that point that you fake-claimed, it would be possible for you to manipulate town into voting me, giving scum a win.

 

[zapp brannigan]

Zapp(moreso the Vandy side) is blind to Zen's scumminess that people in this game (i.e. Myself/Inferno/AM/Swiss) have seen/shown/explained/yelled/preached because Zen is brown-nosing Vandy for all it's worth by being his little sheep. Zapp's case on me is full of air. The bottom line of it all for why he finds me scummy is purely based on mine/his reads on Zen disagreeing. It is hallow and actually lacks meat. He hasn't brought up any of my other actions and actually in the post he brings up things he agrees with/needs to look into/finds not scummy. Anything with the words, "Zen is scummy" make Vandy go all crazy because he has a town read on Zen. Well, boo-hoo I don't and so don't others. It is an incredibly shallow analysis of my play limiting its focus on one single fact which is my Zen read and I'm not going to apologize/change my mind and agree with Vandy just to stop my lynch.

I quoted your entire Day 2 play. The only things I excluded were some of your posts at Zen, so if I'm ignoring anything it's the back and forths between your two slots. What actions am I missing?

 

[zapp brannigan]

J what if I told you I could 100% confirm Zen as town right now. This isn't a hypothetical. Where would you go then?

I'm not sure what your plan of attack is if Zen flips Town, other then you don't want to lynch Dabuz.

 

[S-Tier]

Look at the bold in context. What I was getting across in there is that by lynching the 3 players in your first dream, then having 3 NKs, it would be LYLO assuming no scum flip and 1 scum left. Scum eliminates all the strong players and leaves the inactive players such as GLG, Glyph, and then you + me. The lynch would be between us two, and despite it being apparent at that point that you fake-claimed, it would be possible for you to manipulate town into voting me, giving scum a win.

Ah I get you. glg glyph, and yourself. We'd definitely lose in that situation.

J what if I told you I could 100% confirm Zen as town right now. This isn't a hypothetical. Where would you go then?

I'm not sure what your plan of attack is if Zen flips Town, other then you don't want to lynch Dabuz.

mfw I'm innocent child

 

[vanderzant]

Right now I super agree with J's opinions on S-Tier and like how J doesn't suspect me of scum.

Something else about this claim makes me unconvinced. S-Tier tried to deter the Soup wagon and put it on me D2. Since he got the dream with J, TAWNN, and Zap N1, it would have made more sense for him to try and push J. Scum-Tier did have a J read at the time.[/COLOR]

Dabuz consider this; if you don't like the way S-Tier tried to deter the Soup wagon and push it onto you, why are you ok with J when he essentially did the same thing except tried to push it onto S-Tier.

If you don't remember, read my 1831 where I quoted and gave commentary on all of J's day 2 play. Despite voting Soup straight away (and putting him at L-1 iirc), he focuses his pressure 100% at S-Tier. Sure, he gave some commentary on past events involving others but the vast majority of his play is aimed at S-Tier, telling him he needs to die etc. If that isn't trying to steer the wagon off of Soup I'm not sure what is. It also leads me to believe that your agreement with J's stance on S-Tier is purely based on him having you as Town. Tell me you see why this is scummy.

 

[zapp brannigan]

Dabuz consider this; if you don't like the way S-Tier tried to deter the Soup wagon and push it onto you, why are you ok with J when he essentially did the same thing except tried to push it onto S-Tier.

If you don't remember, read my 1831 where I quoted and gave commentary on all of J's day 2 play. Despite voting Soup straight away (and putting him at L-1 iirc), he focuses his pressure 100% at S-Tier. Sure, he gave some commentary on past events involving others but the vast majority of his play is aimed at S-Tier, telling him he needs to die etc. If that isn't trying to steer the wagon off of Soup I'm not sure what is. It also leads me to believe that your agreement with J's stance on S-Tier is purely based on him having you as Town. Tell me you see why this is scummy.

Dammit that was the first time I've done that :/

 

[Dabuz]

TBH, I skipped over that case before because it was long :/

Your point about J trying to deter Soup looks very valid and I will re-read the context tomorrow (V/LA today after this post).

Tunneling S-Tier this whole game isn't scummy "Per Se" to me; I've been doing the same thing. S-Tier is my biggest scum read so it actually makes J look good to me.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

My role is something like this: http://www.epicmafia.com/role/1208



Though now that I look at the EM one is a bit different.

N1 I got info about Zapp, J, an TAWNN.
N2 I got info about Laundry, Ryker, and Allegory.

Neither Laundry or Ryker are in this game so I'm thinking n2 was more of a flavor thing hence how it differs from the Epic Mafia role which is where I think Ryker got this from because they are so similar.

I just went look to see what my role was called, it was something unique (it wasn't dreamer), but I accidentally deleted the PM

@mod: Can you resend me my role pm?

I don't think either TAWNN or Zapp are scum, which is why I'm so sure J is scum. I had a bit of waffling that it could be TAWNN today, but his responses still seem pretty town to me. Guiltless responses is the best way to describe it.

Also the story I got last night talked about Allegory surviving death so I think he could have been the target of the night kill, but it also could have just been flavor/misinformation.

What part of this is actually clear and concise? And the bit about nuking your role PM is damn well a good tip-off you're faking. Try harder.

And it's not about me taking this and using it as valuable information. I'm sensible enough not to touch the WIFOM pot with a ten-foot pole. That's not the point. The point is a grand majority taking it for useful information and actually lynching someone off it and it alone. You're obviously acting on it and Glyfe just hopped right on the wagon on your claim alone. TAWNN's blindly accepting it for the same reasons Glyfe is. It's a significant problem to me when others are letting such foggy and misleading information directly affect their judgment.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

EBWOP: I'll be back in a bit, getting food. Then I'm turning this game on its head.

INVERSE MATRIX

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Where the hell did I just jump on this for the claim alone? We KNOW scum is within those 4 players now. It doesn't make sense for Zen to gambit at this stage in the game, since he'd be the last member of his faction REGARDLESS OF ALIGNMENT. Indy or mafia, if he dies his chances at winning are gone. You think he'd throw away the game just to lynch J? J, who I've said is playing like someone who can't afford to die.

These are not tricky things to understand.

 

[#HBC | J]

J what if I told you I could 100% confirm Zen as town right now. This isn't a hypothetical. Where would you go then?

I'm not sure what your plan of attack is if Zen flips Town, other then you don't want to lynch Dabuz.

If you could confirm something to me like that then I would have to begrudgingly back-off because I have a vibe about you. Regardless, I would go probably looking into Glyph because of the way he is being like "Look this plan is fool-proof by following Zen." and trying to position himself in a way where he isn't scum-hunting but trying to be logical. He is following someone he had a scum-read on and it's annoying as hell that he feels he can get away with it. His last post is terrible because he says things like "We KNOW scum is." when the real fact of the matter is we do not know anything at all yet he is acting as if the claim is 100%.

I will never lynch AM/Zapp/Inferno. TAWNN is looking ugly with this recent stuff but I still have a pretty solid town-read from his earlier posts. Swiss is completely null so I would like more attention onto him. Dabuz I still believe is town and I do not get the scum-vibes on him.

Speaking of, Vandy, you never brought up any of my other actions in the game but only what had happened D1 and even then you didn't even analyze everything but just tack on fluffy comments to things besides saying that I disagreed with your Zen read. You also say I tried to deter the Soup~ wagon? Are you insane? I was re-looking at everything and even re-read the game. I wanted Soup from the beginning and was double checking because the day went extremely fast and I was the only one taking the time to actually do things.

@Zen: Quit lying to me dammit.

@Inferno: My restriction is Disrespect. I must act disrespectful towards players and if I am seen giving too much respect by either mod then I will lose my vote for 12 hours. It is hurting my game this game because I hate playing like this because its not fun at all. I have had good reads thus far in the game but it still is affecting how I talk/come across this game.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Wow I really didn't think I'd have to spell this out this much for you guys.

Regardless of if there is one or two anti-town remaining, they are the last member of their faction (I guess only technically for indy).

IE if they get lynched, whoops! Their faction loses. GG.

Lets look at Zen. I've got a few points I'd like to touch on irt his claim, but they need to wait until we get the role PM **** confirmed. But the fun part? It doesn't matter. The important part here is Zen has put forth a lynch pool of J, Zapp, TAWNN, and (indirectly) himself. If he's telling the truth (and thus town), one of those three is scum. If he's lying (and thus scum), well we don't really get anything from it information wise. But we kill scum. You'll recall that from basic mafia training as being the thing town needs to do to win.

So there's that. Whether or not Zen is lying at this point is irrelevant, it will be cleared up soon anyway.

Lets look at the fact that he's claiming in the first place. Remember, we're almost certainly dealing with 1 maf and 1 indy remaining. In putting this information forth, he's essentially guaranteed he won't live to end game. If he's mafia, we'll lynch him tomorrow after J flips town. If he's town, scum will probably put a bullet in his brain (barring J being last mafia and indy having no kill).

So here's what we're gunna do. We're gunna lynch J, since looking at his play and how stupid Zen would have had to be to throw away his chance at winning both point to J being the scum. If J flips town, we cut straight to Zen. He'll have another result, leave us with his reads on the two remaining people in his lynch pool, and move on (again, assuming Zen is town). I'm 99% sure at this point we'll have already hit the scum of the 4, but if not we'll all buckle down and make a goddamn informed decision about the last two.

I really don't see why you are all making this so damn difficult for no reason.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I've yet to talk to Laundry, but I appreciate your line of reasoning Glyph. But here's the thing: looking into his role, what's the likely hood that he'll get another significant result like breaking down possible mafia members? Minimal. He'll probz get something menial yet again. But let's completely ignore that and look at what's concrete here: Zen's done a lot of really stupid **** this game. A LOT of really stupid ****. But had you read D1 you'd have noticed something really interesting: His crazy desire to lynch J. It was evident post after post, and whether that was his main lynch candidate or not, he was CONSISTENTLY mentioned by em.

What does this suggest Gorf? Why does this matter? I believe Zen to moreso be a lyncher than a dream casting queer guy. His play has been balls on top of his inane desire to lynch J, and on top of it all, he comes up with this out-of-nowhere claim that JUST SO HAPPENS TO INCLUDE TWO PRETTY TOWN PLAYERS, AND J. The reciprocal is not suggested, however; if J is scum, he doesn't win by lynching STier. He'd have tried harder to do this if it was true. So I'm going with this for now, and implore to do the same:

Vote: STier

After his possible town flip (which at this point I doubt), we can happily lynch J. But ultimately, we have 10 players left out of 13 and two of the three flipped mafia. I think we should both be fine thinking about either way to go.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Oh wow, that totally sounds like lyncher. Yeah he's first.

unvote vote: S-tier

 

[Inferno3044]

I've yet to talk to Laundry, but I appreciate your line of reasoning Glyph. But here's the thing: looking into his role, what's the likely hood that he'll get another significant result like breaking down possible mafia members? Minimal. He'll probz get something menial yet again. But let's completely ignore that and look at what's concrete here: Zen's done a lot of really stupid **** this game. A LOT of really stupid ****. But had you read D1 you'd have noticed something really interesting: His crazy desire to lynch J. It was evident post after post, and whether that was his main lynch candidate or not, he was CONSISTENTLY mentioned by em.

What does this suggest Gorf? Why does this matter? I believe Zen to moreso be a lyncher than a dream casting queer guy. His play has been balls on top of his inane desire to lynch J, and on top of it all, he comes up with this out-of-nowhere claim that JUST SO HAPPENS TO INCLUDE TWO PRETTY TOWN PLAYERS, AND J. The reciprocal is not suggested, however; if J is scum, he doesn't win by lynching STier. He'd have tried harder to do this if it was true. So I'm going with this for now, and implore to do the same:

Vote: STier

After his possible town flip (which at this point I doubt), we can happily lynch J. But ultimately, we have 10 players left out of 13 and two of the three flipped mafia. I think we should both be fine thinking about either way to go.

Right now I am all for this idea. I haven't seen anything between them that is TvT.

Vote:s-tier

 

[S-Tier]

Oh boy you are quite the dumb AM. I knew that lyncher thing was coming as soon as I read Glyph's last post. Allow me to show you why you are wrong.

You're making an assumption and then forming your argument in a way to fit your assumption while ignoring the evidence that goes against.

D1: J is one of our greatest allies when he is town. We had a neutral view on him until he posted and showed his scum. J and I are able to read each other fairly well. So yes his early posts had already gave me scum vibes. You can see if you actually read my posts instead of trying to conclude that I tunneled him day one that I actually was fine with him living even though he was inactive. He wasn't someone I wanted to lynch d1 just for inactivity. I only put inactive people that I feel wouldn't catch up as people I'd be willing to inactive lynch: ie glg and Glyph.

That's direct evidence against your accusation of I've been trying to get him lynched since the start. Now then let's continue to the point where I actually found J to be scummy.

Wow and actually looking through our posts I can just show you our thought process at each point in time:

Spoiler

J enters the game here:

I'm just posting to say that I'm going to be/have been V/LA due to sickness.

I also have a posting restriction so suck it *****es. Disrespect ftw.

I'm all read up but I don't really know where to put some pf my reads because this game is just weird.

My immediate reaction:

V/LA due to sickness

As you see with the happysheep I was glad that J finally entered the game which goes with my point above that I was looking forward to playing the game with J. I didn't want him dead at all.
J posts these two posts over a span of about a hundred posts or so. I had not even considered a push on him during this time. This is shown by the fact that I hadn't even mentioned him.

Restriction is called Disrespect. If I am found by either mod to be acting respectful towards any player, I lose my vote for 12 hours. If I vote in that time period, something happens that I wouldn't want to.

Ya dig? If not, too bad.



I like this from you Swiss, did someone have to help you reach this? I want to put my vote on Allegory but I will have to research his posts more when I'm not drugged up. I just remember most of them leaving a bad taste.

Zen, you are playing extremely hectic this game.

Only one person is voting him.

J is scum by the way. Spider do you agree? There is a reason for this. I want to know if you can find it.

The above is where I first mention thinking J to be scum. Yes I flat out say that, and that's how I do so with all of my reads. Remember my JTB push? "JTB is scum, JTB is scum". That's simply how I play Gorf. When iI have a read. I have a read. You're speculation of lyncher is all paranoia from Glyph's last post. His questioning of "why would Zen as scum do this now when he would die?" That's the only reason for your feeling because I thought that same thing after reading it. The fact of the matter is that I'm town and this is simply how I play.

Now then let's get back to the posts. J's vote on Allegory was so ( i can't think of the word. It starts with an A? I think. It's basically when you just do something without any personal drive behind it. Apathetic?). He was placing his vote in a way that had no meaning behind it. He could not be connected to it. He just did it.

J states that he had come into the game with reads after reading but his first 3 posts show directly against that. He had no input at all. So here I am finding this suspicious and then think to get Spidey's reaction to it. Which he never answered I don't think. And I'm not the only one who found it odd. dabuz mentions it as well further down the page. Let's continue.

Spoiler

J's next post when he returns:

Penalty is unknown so how do you even think you know how it will play out? I'd be willing to test it but I have no clue what will happen. Depends on how the rest of the town sees it.

He doesn't respond to me calling him scum or anything else. His responds to someone dumb asking to test his restriction (spidey iirc). For one why would he even be willing to test it? How dumb. For two he already know's the penalty (not being able to vote for 12) so why does he speculating here? Acting like he doesn't know the penalty?

Anyways I notice he still isn't doing anything and decide to act upon my suspicion of him not giving any reads:

J, reads. What are they.

Swiss, since you seem one of the only people here with a brain (even if it may be a tiny one), let me ask you some things.

Soupa is town?

TAWNN>Zap in terms of lynching out of those two toDay?

@Others: I am not seeing how JTB is scum to others. All I am seeing is townie points. The meta argument against him seems dumb as does most meta arguments.

@Tier: Be forward with me, these your real scum-picks?

The above is a post in between his response to me which I'd just like to note. He had town reads on TAWNN and Zap and so did Swiss. Why would he ask Swiss who he'd rather lynch out of them? It's like asking which is your strongest town read? Gorf you see the fakeness in this?J's response in which my suspicion really started to pour in:

Swiss is leaning town. Allegory is leaning scum. GLG could be scum but then again I can hardly read him correctly ever. JTB is leaning town. Dabuz is null, Soupa I want him to be town but there's nothing concrete for me to keep that read so he's a lean for the town side. AM is null.

Most of the hydras are null. The hydra I like the most so far is probably Zapp regardless of how they are.

I also wouldn't mind losing TAWNN now that I think about the hydras.

I forgot about Bug-boy, no clue at the moment. I disliked their earlier play but lately they have gotten better so they are null.

I mentioned it before how he left his options open for every single read. And many of you agreed with me including you AM (I will show this below). So my suspicious were not unwarranted. I'll quote the rest of my interaction with J at this time showing how I formed my opinion him. I think reading it will show you that your lyncher theory is just wrong and that I did not set out with a preset agenda of lynching J.

Yes. Why do you ask? The only one you disagree with is JTB. Speaking of which, what is your reasoning for him being town?

I don't see any reason to suspect him as scum so far. The only point I recognize as having some merit is the call-out of him being sheepy. However, every game I've played with JTB he has been somewhat sheepy and I have ML'd him because of it in the past so I take it as a null tell. I like his last post a lot which showed him actually going into things.

Your scum-list seems too....easy for my tastes Zenny. You have GLG which is an easy one to lynch then Me/Glyph which are the inactives then there is JTB which you are trying to substantiate a majority of your read on him based around meta/a feeling that his RVS entrance was fake (really?) and Spidey which you've held onto since the beginning of the game yet have not done much more with delving into it.

What's your opinion on Allegory?

"easy" doesn't have anything to do with accuracy. Most of the people who have been actively posting are town. So it's both easy and accurate to assume that scum is within the nulls.

None of what you said explains why you have a town read on JTB, just a null read.

Town on Allegory.

I said in that post you quoted that I liked that he was going into things and that I haven't seen anything I want to look at up his way yet so it's a town-lean.

I'm finding it hard to believe you have so many town reads in this phase.

Ah true my bad.
Do you feel this way about Swiss as well? His reads have come to be the same as mine other than Allegory. I find it odd that you HAVENT gotten the town reads. I feel you're trying to keep options open. Like how do you not have an obv town read on Zapp, AM, and Soup by now.

I did say I had town leans on Soupa/Zapp....

AM is odd because I haven't played with WL in a loooooong time so I have absolutely no clue yet. Most of the things they have posted aren't the most original nor have they been doing much themselves yet.

I usually tend to look at Swiss' scum-reads more than town-reads. I also don't recall a synergy between both your reads.

See no. You literally left your options open for every single player. You don't give a single direct stance. Everyone is null/leaning.

glg could be scum
swiss is leaning town
i want soupa to be town
zapp i like regardless of how they are
allegory leaning

All of your options are left open.

I know town J by now would have some harder stances. Your line of questioning is also fake. Why are you asking Swiss who he would lynch out of TAWWN and Zapp if he has town reads on both of them and you have town/null reads on them?

God you are slow this game. I seriously can't tell if all the sudden I got super better or if everyone else just got super slow. Seeing as Seph's reads are the same and even ahead of mine I'm looking towards the latter.

What?

That last line is not even true because if you even go back and check our hydra chats from our last couple of games you of all people would know I never have hard stances D1. At best, I have one solid scum-read or one/two good town reads.

If someone is leaning town, I'm not going to be lynching them soon especially over the scum-reads/nulls I have. Line of questioning is fake? I did not recall Swiss have town-reads on either slot and plus I even said I wouldn't mind losing TAWNN in a post or two afterwards in response to you. I also asked that question to see if he agreed which of the two were scummier, he seemed to have picked Zapp>TAWNN and that is something I don't really agree to but he is picking in between town-reads so yeah.

The only options I have said that I would like for the lynch toDay are Allegory/GLG/TAWWN(in the sense of they can go).

*I never have hard stances D1, regardless of alignment.

Forgot to add that in there. What you are trying to use as a scum-tell is one of my null-tells.

Yeeeeeah not like this. Don't like. You're scum.

I feel enlightened by seeing your gracious deductive skills which have pointed you in my direction as scum apparently.

lol man. Xdijffdsiohd wow k I gotta talk this over with my other half. You're definitely my top read.

While you are barking up the wrong tree, I'm going to go find scum. Kay thanks.

Time to get to work on looking more in-depth into Allegory.

Hmph, well I just re-read Allegory and couldn't find exactly what was giving me the bad vibes surrounding him. The post that makes me wanna pressure him more is the one where he says that he is alright to be pressured. Most of his posts just come off cautious and not really full-gung-ho about what he is doing. He is in the background and hasn't really moved his vote from TAWNN, but the thing I thought he hadn't been doing he actually has been doing. (I thought originally he hadn't been pressuring him but he has also been pressuring others while remaining consistent with his TAWNN suspicion)

I'm not comfortable with having my vote on him.

Unvote

Swiss, what was it you were seeing that made you dislike Allegory?

Going to look at the popular wagons now (GLG/S-Tier) to see my opinion on where I may go. I also plan to look at TAWNN again.

Here is showing the agreement of others in what I was saying about J. As I was saying above my points were legit, not some bs to try and get him lynched:

Seeing it

Vote: J

This game is weird.

Actually, nevermind. J bothers me more than S-tier right now.

unvote

No Name, I like your case on J but I have a different perspective in seeing it, it's not about the reads. #585 from S-tier.



Self-meta. Nasty.

I don't get the hoopla over me self-meta'ing myself w.r.t. Zen. Nor is it scummy, its just poor defense at best.

Soupa, can you explain what exactly you like of No Brain's case?

Then why do it? If you admit that it's poor defense then why succumb to it. It's scummy as **** and you should know better.

EBWOP: Wow bad wording: Fake as in this agression/meanness.

It's not scummy as **** yet you are trying to make it seem as such.

I self-meta with Zen specifically and only him in almost every game we are in together. I see nothing out of the ordinary with this game.

Vo te: J

How does that get a vote for explaining that the attitude in most my posts are fake because of a restriction...? Out of all my posts to vote me, you picked the weirdest one.

Soupa, explain to me how you know what Zen is talking about here. Since it's not my reads that are bothering you, but this post in particular gives you enlightenment.

Ngl, I kinda like this post.

Ngl, I kinda like the J hate. Consider this half on board with the wagon, but still in discontent with S Tier.

S Tier I will not answer one question you have regarding that sentence.

This is grimy.

This read will be worth your while AM.

Now for the juice of disproving your theory. I had all this support in the case I was making against J d1 (as shown in the last part of the collapse above) yet he was not my main beef for the day. That my friend was JTB. Your lyncher theory completely falls a part here. I went off of J and used all my might to pursue a JTB lynch. I don't even know if I voted J during the time I was looking into him. I just know that my other half wanted to pursue JTB over J and that's exactly what we did. Once we found JTB to be town we went after Soup and then ended up waffling between Soup and J. And then instead decided to support the Spidey wagon.

Now let's get to D2: We go directly for Soup. Dabuz to get something out of the day. But our main lynch choice had always been Soup. Even if you want to say it was dabuz, that clearly shows we had no intention of lynch J that day. Which I could have claimed YESTERDAY when I had my first dream. So once again your lyncher suspicion is only from Glyph speculating "why would scum Stier be doing this now". You're ignoring the fact that J has not been my main concern this game, but FINDING SCUM has been. Get out of here with that.

 

[S-Tier]

Oh wow, that totally sounds like lyncher. Yeah he's first.

unvote vote: S-tier

Right now I am all for this idea. I haven't seen anything between them that is TvT.

Vote:s-tier

Lol @ the noob bregade jumping on

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I'm sure I don't have to read your response to know what my response is, so I'll just throw it out there:

Why so against being lynched first? We've had two proper lynches in a row and a total of ONE NK. Yes this is me saying you seem defensive to your lynch, but why not go with it if you know we're gonna lynch your dude toMorrow on your town flip? And then from there, we lynch dabuz and this game will be over. I mean the game might not be a perfect wrap up from that point but hey it'll still be wrapped up and in the end isn't that all that matters?

Now... for that post...

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

You're making an assumption and then forming your argument in a way to fit your assumption while ignoring the evidence that goes against.

You can't even tell us what you're role does, so till you can let's not accuse people of making assumptions.

 

[S-Tier]

Read it. It shows clearly why I am not lyncher as well as scum points against J. Don't assume that it isn't worth reading. Don't skim either, because you are just so completely wrong in this.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

D1: J is one of our greatest allies when he is town. We had a neutral view on him until he posted and showed his scum. J and I are able to read each other fairly well. So yes his early posts had already gave me scum vibes. You can see if you actually read my posts instead of trying to conclude that I tunneled him day one that I actually was fine with him living even though he was inactive. He wasn't someone I wanted to lynch d1 just for inactivity. I only put inactive people that I feel wouldn't catch up as people I'd be willing to inactive lynch: ie glg and Glyph.

That's direct evidence against your accusation of I've been trying to get him lynched since the start. Now then let's continue to the point where I actually found J to be scummy.

This actually seems like how I'd play lyncher: don't lynch em D1, but build up in finding em scummy. Btw this has a lot of assumptions in it too so let's go ahead and, once again, not accuse AM for being Mr. Assumption.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

As you see with the happysheep I was glad that J finally entered the game which goes with my point above that I was looking forward to playing the game with J. I didn't want him dead at all.

You should know this isn't alignment indicating, and isn't even something disproving. Unless of course you can deduce a scum tell from that but hey.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Lol @ the noob bregade jumping on

And people say you can't make jokes! Hahahahaha

 

[S-Tier]

I'm sure I don't have to read your response to know what my response is, so I'll just throw it out there:

Why so against being lynched first? We've had two proper lynches in a row and a total of ONE NK. Yes this is me saying you seem defensive to your lynch, but why not go with it if you know we're gonna lynch your dude toMorrow on your town flip? And then from there, we lynch dabuz and this game will be over. I mean the game might not be a perfect wrap up from that point but hey it'll still be wrapped up and in the end isn't that all that matters?

Now... for that post...

You can't even tell us what you're role does, so till you can let's not accuse people of making assumptions.

God I swear Gord you two have been extremely ******** this game. I'm not even defensive of being lynched. I'm just pissed off that you two don't believe me and how extremely bad you are playing.

Why on earth would I agree to being lynched and then for town following a layed out plan based on it. We still have unknowns on Swiss and glg.

For the last time I've told you what my role does, I just don't know what it's called which isn't important at all. I really did delete my pm but it has nothing to do with what I know about my ability. I simply forgot what the hell Ryker named it which I don't even care about at all. I just knew someone would think I was faking if I didn't know it.


I will explain to you once again:

I get a story each night of 3 people, 1 of which is scum. The difference with the EM role is that it also has a town and the one I got last night was all flavor.