Rusty Guillotine Mafia | Ovah

[#HBC | Gorf]

From what I skimmed you did the same thing as Joey's case on me: You went in with a fixated opinion, telling yourself that J IS scum, therefore all actions he made are actions by scum. Take this as a reference to any future game you play as town: When you do rereads, don't have such a strong, fixated opinion on certain people's alignments. That kills the purpose of rereading. If you came back here with reasons stating why your original thought of Jscum was wrong, that'd be fine. I'm not saying that that's what you think, per se, but it's better than trying to scramble together a half a** case because you got too much pride to say you were wrong. Yes that was all advise, from "take this as a reference...", can't EXPLICITALLY judge you fairly cuz all I did was skim, but yea from the looks of it it's just you fixating J as scum and everything he does is scummy. But... I'll read it tomorrow.

The one thing that I noticed you DIDN'T do, however, is rag and ridicule to take up space, quanitatively, which is what Joey did in his case. But, once again, to be fair, I didn't read the whole thing, so I might've missed you doing that, or you might've done other stupid things, but so far meh.

Tl;dr imma read more tomorrow .

 

[July]

This is wrong, you have it backwards.



Cello
J
Gord
KevinM
Swords

But that's WIFOM to debate on NKs indicating scum members.

Your "case" as you call it seems more like a play-by-play as to what I have been doing all game but I do not see very many call backs besides gentle fists (lol Hinata reference) that do not really accuse me as scum. You point out some things that you would like to see as scummy but it just does not seem genuine. I liked the read but I did not really gain much from it besides my own interactions with people contorted (that's an ugly word I guess but meh I'm tired) into making them seem scummy. You have some conflicting views on the GLG situation where you use it against me when you can by saying "J uses this to seem more townie and now look at GLG's flip. His interactions with GLG point to a more scummy reaction." However when you choose to use this for your defense you say, "J is actually setting me up to look bad but you gotta admit GLG was the most scummiest people coming into the game when I made that case on him." Which is contradicting. I'm comfortable with getting you up to lynch and forcing a claim out of you because that "case" is lack-luster. You try and using everything and anything you can grasp your hands on to try and make me look worse but it's just a play-by-play which is the best way to describe it and doesn't really do much. I need to think more about your post but initial read-through of it is a no ty.

July, state clearly in a single paragraph or sentence, why I am scum to you. Talk about the KevinM vs. Smarg. What about Joey's affirmation Ryker is town? Talk about Cello as well. Is Gord town?

Sorry about #723, I misread I guess, my bad. I deff know that the GLG situation was conflicting, my issue was not with finding him scummy, that was fine. My problem was with the way you handled him after his claim, which was to shut down a townie voice immediately upon being revealed. And that's fine, I admit that the reason its a case study is because I lacked the time to pick things apart, I had to read and write and I couldn't put as much thought into it as I wanted to. I sat down and tried to be unbiased at the start but it didn't turn out that way, which is why I decided to do a case study, but I still couldn't make it unbiased, my thoughts just leaned towards you being scum and that's my bad as well. Tbqh, I couldn't make a case in its entirety because it felt too personal, it's hard for me to make something hard-hitting when I'm just not sure if my reads are correct and then feel like a ***** if they aren't.

To me, you are scum because you have been very cautious and controlled about your interactions, you made sure to push for Gord and GLG while they seemed scummy, but with me you waited until you had the support of Cello to even put pressure on me, making me think you want to play it safe and make sure you are on scummy people while they are scummy but don't reach too far and put yourself on blast for starting a lynch and actively convincing people that they are scum. Whether or not you are scum or not, waiting for me to make my case first was smart because it means if I'm lynched it's because of my own actions and not yours; I still hope people would look into you as scum while I'm on the guillotine.

I think that KevinM vs. Smarg I think KevinM has called Smarg out on valid issues with her play, like only taking easy bandwagons. Between the two I would say Smarg is more likely to be scum than Kevin, Smarg is my second strongest scum read, but scum team=/=J and Smarg, those suspicions would are separate. I think Joey's affirmation that Ryker is town is anti-town to be throwing around soo much and without any subtlety, but I do think Ryker is town. Cello honestly confuses me, I'm null on him but I would really like to see more from him. And yes, I think Gord is town, I've thought Gord is town since middle of D1 and that hasn't changed.

Also, can you tell me why your vote is not on me after you made that "case" which shows everyone why I am mafia?

I didn't want to post it with the big post and I really, really needed a break from mafia after posting that and then I needed to catch up, which I'm hopefully almost done with.

Unvote
Vote J

 

[ranmaru]

Smarg vs. KevinM I would like to see more of. People should let them duke it out a bit without any interference.



Swords/Ran, me no like.

But the both of them rarely post. Smarg voted him twice and he didn't say anything.

Elaborate.

 

[July]

From what I skimmed you did the same thing as Joey's case on me: You went in with a fixated opinion, telling yourself that J IS scum, therefore all actions he made are actions by scum. Take this as a reference to any future game you play as town: When you do rereads, don't have such a strong, fixated opinion on certain people's alignments. That kills the purpose of rereading. If you came back here with reasons stating why your original thought of Jscum was wrong, that'd be fine. I'm not saying that that's what you think, per se, but it's better than trying to scramble together a half a** case because you got too much pride to say you were wrong. Yes that was all advise, from "take this as a reference...", can't EXPLICITALLY judge you fairly cuz all I did was skim, but yea from the looks of it it's just you fixating J as scum and everything he does is scummy. But... I'll read it tomorrow.

The one thing that I noticed you DIDN'T do, however, is rag and ridicule to take up space, quanitatively, which is what Joey did in his case. But, once again, to be fair, I didn't read the whole thing, so I might've missed you doing that, or you might've done other stupid things, but so far meh.

Tl;dr imma read more tomorrow .

Thank you for the advice, I really do appreciate it. I really don't try to go into re-reads with fixed opinions, I didn't try to at least, there was just a lot of pressure for me to get this done and I didn't effectively divorce the re-read from my own opinion, and that's my bad. I still do think J is scum, but that's my opinion, I'm glad that I've stated it, I just know I could have done better in doing so but there is nothing I can do now.

 

[ranmaru]

Better to go in with what you have than be afraid to say it because others would suspect you for it.

It seems Gord leaves room to say that July is diet Joey basically. Gord would go after Joey first, then later he would say that July should go because even though she didn't ridicule, she had a strong fixation on J and that it would worry him.

 

[Xiivi]

J (1): July
smargaret (3): Sworddancer., Cello_Marl, Ranmaru
Ranmaru (0):
-Joey- (0):
Gordito (0):
July (2): J, Gordito
Sworddancer. (0):
Cello_Marl (2): Ryker, -Joey-
Ryker (0):
KevinM (1): smargaret

Not Voting (1): KevinM

6/10 | 03.04.11 11:59AM EST

 

[July]

I need to think more about your post but initial read-through of it is a no ty.

Lol J I just saw this, I deff appreciate the feedback but I already kinda knew you weren't going to say you are scum after this post, no matter how convincing I am : P

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

What do you mean? Please elaborate on that question. She is my girlfriend you know.

Ahahahaha I was just joshing with you tbh. Idk what Ryker wants but I was just kidding around.

At the time, Joey was voting KevinM, and yes, that is distancing when both parties are scum. I don't think it's distancing any more. Swords, since things have changed since you asked that that make it no longer relevant, why bring it up?

I voted Cello to get his attention and make him answer my question. Since he did that,

Unvote
Vote: KevinM

Things changed? I looked back, and no where did I see you change your stances. Even if you did, it wouldn't of mattered. You still ignored my question and it was most unappreciated.

Smarg I haven't read your case yet, going to do that now.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

EBWOP:

July I haven't read your case yet, going to do that now.

fix in bold. Smag was on my mind at the time. >.<

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

hmmm okay. Yeah July that case was kinda of tunnelly. A lot of time you were stated things like "this could be J with scummy intentions," but anyone could also swing that to be something along the lines of "this could be J with townie intentions." So which is it? How do you know for sure?

This was said two days ago, which means you're a day behind being finished. You have a decent amount done, I'm hoping? And do you think it's fair to ask for it to be done by tomorrow night? Or is it gonna be harder to try and make J look scummy?[/QUOTE]

So was this what you were getting at when you said that you wanted to see July's case?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Ebwop:

>=(

this was said two days ago, which means you're a day behind being finished. You have a decent amount done, i'm hoping? And do you think it's fair to ask for it to be done by tomorrow night? or is it gonna be harder to try and make j look scummy?

 

[KevinM]

That's more active then we've seen lately.

 

[July]

This was said two days ago, which means you're a day behind being finished. You have a decent amount done, I'm hoping? And do you think it's fair to ask for it to be done by tomorrow night? Or is it gonna be harder to try and make J look scummy?[/QUOTE]

So was this what you were getting at when you said that you wanted to see July's case?

>< For real guys, I am asking you to leave the time aspect alone, you are seriously acting like I'm sitting here plotting mafia all day instead of actually work on a presentation or working to secure a venue for a tournament or translating 200 lines of Latin for today. People always think they can determine something about my alignment based on when I post which is bs, because I post when I have time and at the time during the day in which I am awake and usually procrastinating (like now). Just an fyi for anyone who plays with me in the future.

Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare. Hehe fun with Latin : P

 

[July]

Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare. Hehe fun with Latin : P

Means "I think people in togas are plotting against me" btw.

 

[ranmaru]

It's fine I'm lazy and procrastinate too lol. Don't worry it's not like people here have been like SUPER ACTIVE MODE.

Also I don't think Swords was trying to rush you. He was asking Gord about his intent regarding your case.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Kevin, vote for someone.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@KevinM: You refferring to me?

@July: Yeah, Ran pretty much got it. Earlier Gord was like "cases arn't scummy, but- July I want to see your case." After which J responded saying that is seemed someone got where he was coming from. I asked Gord to "spoonfeed" me what he was getting at, and he told me to basically just wait until your case was done and tha I'll get it then. So yeah, that's basically just what I want to "confirm" right now.

 

[July]

@Swords: I understand, sorry that part you quoted just kept coming up a lot yesterday, but my response wasn't aimed against you, it was supposed to be in general, my bad.

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah, I think Gord is trying to go along with J. Don't know why.

Also, I don't know why Smarg has ignored my vote on her.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

So was this what you were getting at when you said that you wanted to see July's case?

No.

J said that some vets consider cases scummy. Rather than just telling July why cases are scummy so she can avoid it, I wanted to give her free will to make her case, which is also why I made that facepalm pic at Ryker.

@July

I'm not tryna call ya scummy solely based off of the time of posting the case. I wanted the case. Then, I REALLY wanted the case. That's all.

 

[ranmaru]

Go ahead and make the case. A case wouldn't be scummy, if it gave the victim a chance to argue back.

Now making a big case would be hurtful, because then the victim would have to reply quickly. The person who made the case had the time, but how are we sure the victim has the time to respond to it? Or what if they are just lazy?

But go ahead. Let's see what you think is scummy of J. Back it up.

It's not that cases are scummy. It's that-

July, I wanna see your case.

Yet you didn't notice my post, above. Plus, your post didn't seem the type to give "free will". I didn't see the message of "Sure, ignore J, go ahead".

J thought you agreed with him and you never paid attention to him in that regard. You never refuted as to why you thought cases were scummy or not.

Sure you posted a pic to Ryker, but why not to J?

Also you didn't explain "It's that-..." Can you finish this sentence?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Oh, July, what does this mean?

I didn't want to post it with the big post and I really, really needed a break from mafia after posting that and then I needed to catch up, which I'm hopefully almost done with.

You posted the big post at 9:14, and posted this other fairly large post at 10:20. What break was necessary from that time span that couldn't use a vote, or was that bit just to kinda cover up for accidentally not voting J?

 

[July]

No.

J said that some vets consider cases scummy. Rather than just telling July why cases are scummy so she can avoid it, I wanted to give her free will to make her case, which is also why I made that facepalm pic at Ryker.

@July

I'm not tryna call ya scummy solely based off of the time of posting the case. I wanted the case. Then, I REALLY wanted the case. That's all.

Kk, I understand, and I prefer that Gord avoided telling me about why cases can be scummy. I just didn't like that J was calling them scummy and trying to psych me out about it when yesterDay he said that to get me lynched he himself would have to make a case against me here:

July, I do find you scummy but I need to go and actually make a case on you if I want to get you lynched and I do not have the time to before toNight.

Don't worry, the little jabs will become some heavy-winded blows soon enougj. Not toDay and definetely when I'm not on my itouch.

Telling everyone that cases are scummy and refusing to make one until I made mine just seems really hypocritical to me. Also, I legit can't find where I said I was going to build a case on J and vote him toDay like he said here:

July, why is your vote not on me like you said you would be making a case on me toDay? Picking on the easy wagon? Nice.

Like I'd really like to know where I said this J, because all I remember saying is that I wanted your case against me yesterDay since you kept taking jabs at me all Day.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Making a long case:

- makes it hard for your target to respond. It serves no pro-town purpose whatsoever.
- impresses lazy and superficial players. Looking at things from a negative, you should assume the worst play of your fellow townies so some people my be persuaded by big but empty words.
- often serves to scare the target. The poster had ample time to make the case but the target is expected to make an instant answer. This is a HUGE reason why people should be MUCH more empathetic with the targets, listen to responses more and ALWAYS scrutinize these cases [look if quotes were taken out of context or if the poster is guilty of selective reading to make his case look bigger than it actually is].
- could usually be simplified without forfeiting the core message, making it easier to respond to and thus more constructive.

If you are town and you want to find scum, do you think randomly making a huge case out of nowhere is going to help you? If you have a bad feeling about somebody or a particular post bothers you you're always responding as soon as you see it. A case built on solid logic comes step by step and doesn't need long, complicated explanation.

Edit: Note that in your example, tHE-Man was scum that game.

Sure you posted a pic to Ryker, but why not to J?

J didn't specifically say why cases are scummy, and yes, Ryker's explanation is more on the correct side than yours.

Also you didn't explain "It's that-..." Can you finish this sentence?

It would've been me going on about why cases are scummy. But rather than explain, I just let July make the case and THEN talk about why cases are seen as scummy.

 

[ranmaru]

Well, cases wouldn't be scummy. They would be anti-town, buy yours was short enough.

 

[July]

Oh, July, what does this mean?



You posted the big post at 9:14, and posted this other fairly large post at 10:20. What break was necessary from that time span that couldn't use a vote, or was that bit just to kinda cover up for accidentally not voting J?

I posted it, and then I didn't want to look at mafia for a while since I had been re-reading and writing for hours, so I went to the store to get ice cream, then I ate it, then I came back to the comp and realized I hadn't voted for J. Then I caught up and voted for J. I had stuff to do after making that case, like eat ya know : P

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I posted it, and then I didn't want to look at mafia for a while since I had been re-reading and writing for hours, so I went to the store to get ice cream, then I ate it, then I came back to the comp and realized I hadn't voted for J. Then I caught up and voted for J. I had stuff to do after making that case, like eat ya know : P

Ice cream. It's always a good reason.

 

[ranmaru]

My previous post was in reference to July.

@Gord:

Your post wasn't really the reason that making cases are seen as scummy, so I didn't really care about your post.

No, meaning you weren't the one to give her free will. You didn't give your thoughts on it, and confused July.


It seemed J was reffering to your post, but yet you didn't say anything anyways, even if you have said things about cases before.


Yet you didn't respond to J at all. You don't really discuss much, eh? This has nothing to do with my talk about cases.


Well why did you say it like that? You didn't have to do that. Also you didn't explain anything after that.

Oh, the Gheb post? That's where I got that from, actually. Saw it in the social thread.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Your post confuses me Ran.

 

[July]

Well, cases wouldn't be scummy. They would be anti-town, buy yours was short enough.

No, meaning you weren't the one to give her free will. You didn't give your thoughts on it, and confused July.

Well, honestly I was happy being blissfully ignorant while I wrote my case of what they were getting at lol, like I said the only thing I didn't like was that J was throwing it out there after saying he would have to make a case on me, which I thought was to psych me out a bit.

@Gord: Agreed. And homemade cookies : P

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

If I spoonfed July and told her how to play pro town, she'd probably... well... do it to my standards. If I DIDN'T, she'd make the case to HER standards, and I'd be able to fairly judge said case. If you were supposed to climb a tree, and I gave you a latter, do you think it'd be easier to climb the tree with what I gave you or with what you had yourself? I wasn't gonna give her my latter just so she can climb the tree using that. You get what I'm saying?

 

[KevinM]

So are you saying you think the case is polluted? Or if it was fine as is.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Changes nothing.

July/Swords, vote Cello.

 

[smargaret]

sorry, I'll post something substantial tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | J]

Unvote
Vote: Cello_Marl

This is the right path for now but I am going to respond to July's case.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@KevinM I think her case ended up being a buncha fixated opinions of Jscum, so it's inevitably polluted. But meh... I still think she needs to die tbh, but July/Cello > Joey at this point, with a tad more leaning toward July. Everything from the end of D1 to now makes me think Celloscum, just because, well, he's doing zero to try and help town, and is basically prod dodging his life away at this point. My vote stays on July, unless we decide on a Cello lynch, in which case I'd be fine changing my vote.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

What about July's case makes Cello > July? I still don't understand.

We're not lynching until March 4th btw so that I can get as much out of this game as I can before being guillotined.

 

[#HBC | J]

Gord the friendly ghost.

Vote Cello.

July is a maybe now. Need more thinking.

July, if you want to live, you'll vote Cello_Marl.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Unvote Vote Cello

L-2.

 

[#HBC | J]

Swords, you should talk about Cello.

While you're here and all.