Roy: Tip and Tricks

[Yeerk]

Bair is by far his strongest aerial. The closer to his body you hit, the stronger the attack. That goes for all of his moves.

 

[FlashingFire]

There's a video link in my signature that might help you understand the mechanics of his Bair.

 

[FlashingFire]

There's a video link in my signature that might help you understand the mechanics of his Bair.

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks! That helps a ton.

 

[Blade-Fox]

Just wondering, which one of Roy's aerials has the most killing potential?

His b-air seems pretty weak, unless there's a certain sweet spot to it that's hard to hit with. His neutral air seems like it could be a better killer and covers a wider area, not to mention it covers his landing.

I'd say it would be B-Air, D-Air, N-Air in that order (D-Air and N-Air feel interchangeable though).

B-Air has a sweetspot that is great for killing. You can also sweetspot it with the reverse hitbox making it possible to kill people in front of you but it's very easy to mess it up and send them back toward the stage instead of outward. It is also quick making it safer than N-Air offstage.

D-Air can meteor spike people but can also kill off the top.

N-Air can kill but I don't think it's nearly as strong as B-Air. N-Air always seems like you need to be offstage to kill with which is bad for N-Air because it lasts so long and Roy is...well, Roy.

 

[Sethlon]

Fun fact; Dair meteor sweespot will actually kill most grounded characters faster than Bair will, lolz

Outside of that, knockback goes Bair, Flareblade (nB), and then Nair.

 

[Xinc]

Isn't Nair used mainly as a GTFO move? I still need to find uses for the nB. DX

 

[Vigilante]

Your killing actions really depend on enemy DI. If they are airborne and close behind you, B-air sweetspot does the trick. If they DI in front of you, Flare blade packs a punch, and neutral air has a great angle for killing as well.

Sure, N-air is mostly used as a GTFO move, but near a ledge, it'll kill the likes of Falco with ease.

 

[Werbenjagermanjensen]

Hey Vigilante, two questions:
1) Is there anywhere you or the PMBR could provide some frame data for Roy and the like of characters? Like maybe compile it into a huge stickied post? Or is out of the question right now?
2) Since you were a huge part of designing Roy, I'd like to ask: How do you deal with shield pressure and OOS options? Some chars I can just NAir OOS, but Fox/any other fast character can be a ***** to deal with sometimes. I know Roy's defense and OOS is terribad compared to other chars, but still.

 

[Player -0]

Since Roy's Up B has a strong initial hit box could it be a a viable option if you B Reverse it? Especially if you make it extremely horizontal (Marth can't do this) and land on a platform to make it more safe.

@ Werbenjagermanjensen WD OoS is always an option I think, I've done it a bit and it feels really good. You get to make space while being able to put out an attack like F Tilt.

___________________________________
Would I ever be able to get an idea (from a PMBR member) why Roy's Up air and Down air end lag is the same as Marth's?

 

[Spralwers]

^^ It is on Jigglypuff depending on where you are relative to the ceiling :D

 

[T-Murder]

Dair to bair.

 

[OliClutch117]

Hey just recently picked up Roy and was wondering if I could get some tips on my Marth MU. I have been having problems getting in on Marth and was curious if you guys knew which moves could help with spacing against him.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Am I the only one who thinks that fast falling a uair into grab is just the best thing ever? It's SOOO hard for them to punish, because they either get hit by the uair when they try to shield grab, or they stay in shield, and get grabbed by you. Or, of course, they don't shield at all, and just get hit by it. Even if they try to crouch cancel it, it pops a lot of characters up. The grab comes out so quickly, I feel like it works every single time. They have to preemptively punish your jump in to stop it.

 

[iwinatu]

I don't think I've ever lost a set where my opponent counter picks marth lol. I just know what they're thinking when they choose him haha, "Oh, so he's Roy eh... well Marth is just the same but with a bigger sword, so I'll pick him and I'll be sure to win!!!!!" But actually, Roy's range is maybe an inch or too smaller than marths, but where Roy gets a sour spot, Marth will get a sweet spot, so it can be really scary going up against that feeling of "Oh man, if I'm imperfect at all I'm about to get bopped." But what I have to say is just trust your range. What I've encountered is Marth's won't actually use their full range to their advantage, so you have to know yours. It's like an underdog mentality; because you've been outclassed for so long in range, you've become more aware of what you have to work with, to the point where you can throw out moves and know without a doubt how far away someone has to be. You basically have to be better at spacing with Roy than if you were playing Marth because the downside of not is you get wrecked 100% of the time. Also Roy is faster than Marth, so you should be able to navigate the map a little quicker, get under Marth a little faster, get into position more easily. This means you can dictate the flow of the match better.

Fair is longer than you think, I guarantee it. Your Dtilt is shorter for sure, but again, if you use your better mobility, you can get in to use it. Nair stays out longer and has a more continuous hitbox so you can actually time it in between his.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Yeah, I tend to have a healthy respect for Roy's space and juggling options when I play him. Roy happens to be at that weight that Marth can go pretty ham on him and proper spacing does indeed mess Roy up fierce. Tippers on Roy are also just less forgiving than strong hits on Marth, given Roy's fall speed and Marth's superior edgeguarding ability. (Roy is good at edge-guarding too, but he needs to be very careful off-stage and has overall fewer options. DTilt -> FSmash on an attempted sweetspot is my favorite Roy combo, tho.)

Point being: Roy no longer loses the match-up at CSS. He still has to work. One Counter/Dtilt from Marth while you're offstage (which Marth can get you easily) and it's baby Bye Bye Bye.

 

[Player -0]

If you read a Marth spacing with Fair you can probably sneak a F-Tilt in since it's so long.

 

[Azureflames]

Really solid thread guys. I've been keeping some personal tabs for my own game and thought it might be useful for some to write out a quick list of some of the tentative combo possibilities and tactics mentioned so far in this thread...


Comboing /pressuring / approach

Fair>grab

Fair>Ftilt

Fair>Dtilt>(anything ,really)

Fair>Dtilt>Fsmash

Fair>Dtilt>Fair

Fair>Dtilt>Dair

Fair>Dtilt>nB

Fair>Dtilt>Nair

Fair>Dtilt>Bair

Fair>Dsmash

Uair>Dsmash

Nairrrrrrrr

UAir> grab

Uair> grab> dtilt

Uair> Fsmash

Uair> dtilt> Fsmash

Dtilt> standing A

Dashing> dtilt

Empty hop> grab

Grounded combos-

Dtilt>SH> first hit of sideb> first hit of sideb>Dtilt>repeat?


Meteor options-

Uair>Dair

Fair>Dair

Dtilt>Dair


Edgeguarding options-

Nair offstage

Fsmash

nB

DTilt> nB or Fsmash or Ftilt

Short hop > Fair/nB against jump over recovering from edge

work on spacing/ dash dancing for grabs on their rolls/ shield>grab ledge getup attacks

DownB (spacies and non-sweet spotted recoveries)

DED third hit xx^ downward spikes for a kill.



misc things I tend to keep focused on

Fthrow chaingrabs >Fsmash or Ftilt

spacing the DED third hit xx^ for spike on edge

make use of DED third hit xx> for kill move mix up

***on that note always mix up kill move options (Fsmash/Ftilt/Bair**/DED xx>/nB)

Uair> Fsmash or Uair > WD backward>dash grab> combo

Reverse Dair meteor?

Grabs, Grabs, and more grab

Never stop moving and always play hot and cold mix up depending on opponents style/mannerisms

 

[adlp]

good post azure thats very useful for me

 

[Player -0]

Nair offstage? That sounds like suicide.

More edgeguard:
- Edgehog, if they end up on stage then edgehop Bair.
- D-Tilt -> Neutral B
- EFF SMAAASHSHHH
- Neutral B
- Edgehop Bair


I'm wondering if there's enough hitstun after a footstool to fall below them and then DJ -> Dair Meteor.

 

[Acorn]

Neutral B is really strong. The range/power is great and you can use it as a killing move in the air. Weak f-air to Neutral B works really well and can even KO off the top of short stages. The hitbox actually starts above and behind Roy's head and arcs down in front of him, so you can sometimes find really goofy hits.

I'm not sure if this is true, I need to test it, but it feels like you can use it really fast after using an aerial. Faster than you could use any other aerial. If I whiff a greedy forward air, I sometimes can still get a hit with Neutral B immediately after and it seems really fast compared to trying to get another aerial.

Also, what can't Nair do? This move covers so many options and can be used for so many things. I use it as much as I use Falco's Dair probably. It's a solid option in the neutral game, it can combo into everything, it covers like 3 tech options (sometimes) because it's so large, it's sometimes a kill move, etc...

Roy just feels really fun to play, even though his recovery sucks, but I'm used to that.

What do you guys do off of grabs though? Against floaty characters like Mewtwo all his throws knock them too far away to be useful.

 

[iwinatu]

Nair offstage really isn't that bad. its Uair and Dair that're the killers lol.

For approaches though, you have practically EVRYthing leading with a Fair. I wouldn't really recommend using Dsmash for an approach too since the lag is so long, unless you're like trying to push them off the edge, or push yourself on an edge....20XX. Try thinking of Fair as more of a combo move than an approach, because always jumping isn't that great cuz you can get swatted or just read if you do it too much (because I used to approach with Fair like 100% of the time).

For approaches I'd add Run>Dtilt. Like literally run at them and then crouch and start Dtiliting. Of course its not good from really far away, but for that mid range distance, and especially when your percent makes it so you really don't want to be in the air, the Dtilt is fantastic, and can usually chip a lot of shield away/shield poke (which then, the combos can get started). Just watch some vidos of Sethlon's, he's so good at doing this (but you really gotta make sure you get that control stick down, or you'll just do a delayed dash attack which gets punished pretty badly if shielded lol).

Also, the sour spot on Uair is weak enough to where you can jab reset people. It also starts REALLY low, like, at your feet low. So a good mix up is Uair>Fsmash, or Uair>Dtilt>Fsmash. If they're shielding, Uair>Grab, or Uair>Grab>Dtilts if you want to poke. Use Uair only as a mix up from the sky though because you're mainly gonna be using Fairs, Dairs, Nairs mainly for approaches and reads while airborne. So don't abuse the Uair or you'll get punished pretty badly if they read it lol.

 

[Blade-Fox]

I'm hesitant on using F-Air as his main approach tool. I get a lot of mileage out of U-Air, N-Air, Empty Hop > Grab, D-Tilt > Standing A and many other little variations. I'm generally trying to get a grab though in most situations.

What do you guys do off of grabs though? Against floaty characters like Mewtwo all his throws knock them too far away to be useful.

At low percents, I use F-Throw > F-Throw. Throughout the match though, it's good to mix it up with a D-Throw or B-Throw since they'll be expecting the F-Throw after a certain point.

 

[Azureflames]

Ill be sure to edit some of my earlier post. I agree on the feedback. My biggest habit is SHFFL fair dtilt and become pretty predictable. I like all the uair ideas though. I havnt played uair much outside after UThrows and catching on platforms. Ill be sure to mix up more NAirs and UAirs into my game.

On another note, can any of you give me some pointers on playing species in terms of overall approach ideas, tech chasing, and dealing with heavy shield pressure? My friend mains wolf and hes been giving me a really hard time lately. I figure I just need to mix up approaches more and try to get more grab combos? Also my spacing might just suck or something lol ( wolfs dash attack, double shine, and FSmash are the most noteworthy things giving me trouble)

 

[Blade-Fox]

You can shield grab the F-Smash and Dash Attack I believe. You can also use N-Air as a "get off me, respect my space" tool but in general, I think it's going to be stage dependent for your approaches. I really don't think Roy has a go to approach. I think he just has to use everything because as soon as people catch on to his pressure strings, he's gonna get punished hard. It's not like with say, Fox where you have obvious approach options.

Basically, none of Roy's approaches are really "safe". You're gambling big just about every time and sometimes your only option is a hard read on someone. At least in my experience when playing him in Melee and PM.

You're gonna have to pressure your Wolf friend but be careful of OOS Shines. If you can get a grab or D-Tilt, you can go into U-Throw chain grabs. If you have platforms, use wavelands to help use them as an approach option. Roy has good movement and I think it's one of his strongest/most important tools.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

So, generally, when can you use counter?
Obviously, if you know [your reaction time] before, that the hit will get you and you know that after [your reaction time + first hitbox] the opponent is in your counter range and couldn't grab before.
In this case counter is successful. Which moves are generally good to be countered?

 

[Azureflames]

Thanks for the tips. I usually have luck with ftilt for a gtfo move since it comes out so fast and dtilt has been by best friend againt most everyone. .. for getting pressured I have problems getting nair off though since hes pretty good at getting behind me and the animation hits higher up behind roy.disengaging after he gets behind me is the hardest thing for me since he'll fsmash to catch up to me pretty fast so I cant just dash and the upward hit on dash attack screws with me sometimes. I think I just need to work on spacing, tech chasing, and really getting down the combo execution

 

[Azureflames]

So, generally, when can you use counter?
Obviously, if you know [your reaction time] before, that the hit will get you and you know that after [your reaction time + first hitbox] the opponent is in your counter range and couldn't grab before.
In this case counter is successful. Which moves are generally good to be countered?

Since the window for roys counter is so small I only use it on the edge for recovering space animals or marth on occation for when he misses sweet spot. I know when it does hit its amazing, can be a kill move depending on the move its countering. I read that his counter does damage scaling off the move countered, so the more damage countered, the harder the counter will hit

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Maybe also against an input error Falcon / Warlord punch (depending on your reaction time also Falcon Kick or Wizards Foot) or more realistic a projectile-covered approach as Falco's laser nair.
Against recoveries with lasting hitboxes (although neutral B is mostly better in this)?
Moves that once initiated are difficult /impossible to stop for the initiator (Wario's or Luigi's side b).
I thought of those, they are situational but useful. I don't think the counter is really a main tool but are there more applications?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

uair is basically my favorite aerial. That, and bair. I really don't use nair very often. I usually just get them in the air by either uthrowing, utilting, or dtilting, and then go to town with uair. My strategy is not terribly complicated with Roy.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

does roy have any frame data?

 

[FlashingFire]

I know his jumpsquat is 4 frames. Other than that, I'm not sure.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

kay

10kays

Edit: eww this character feels really clunky

 

[Nail.exe]

I just thought I'd stop by and share one of my favorite tricks with Roy- it's flashy, it's hype, and the fire is 5up4-h07.

Short hop away from enemy who's approaching -> b-reversed Flare Blade (nB).

You'll make a small amount of vertical and horizontal distance between you and your opponent before returning to almost exactly the same spot with a slightly charged Flare Blade to slam into their face. Great to punish dash attack approaches or mix up recovery gimps.

It's more for mind games than for bread and butter, but I always get a reaction when I pull it out on somebody.

Keep in mind (because terminology can be hazy) that the definition that I use here for b-reversal is the same as it is used in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nYWNayYVLo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nYWNayYVLo

 

[ImmaAsian]

One thing I can't seem to master is landing the meteor spike (d-air) off the edge. I always just go through my opponent and land nothing and fall to my death. My momentum doesn't seem to really stop, how can I master landing it properly? Thanks.

 

[Kally Wally]

Don't think of it as a sword attack, think of it as a flaming headbutt. Jump up from under your opponent to make it easier.

 

[Azureflames]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxmaDsJoZv4 this video helped a bit for his meteor hitbox. Honestly though, the way that i practiced it was setting the stage to pokemon stadium 2 (in training mode), setting the bot percentage high enough where they would get popped up with Dtilt. First i'd just practice regularly with the bot on the platform and dash from the lower spot and running Dair sweetspot to get the timing down. After i did that i would aim to Dtilt>Dair. Dtilt>Dair can be done close to the edge at like...65-130 percent for mid size characters into meteor spike off the edge. If you're still having trouble with the hitbox, put them up on the platform and instead of dashing into it, just sit under them on the lower level and jump up into it.

 

[iwinatu]

#theyshouldmakeitintoatruespikesinceitssofreakinghardtoland

 

[Foxy K]

#theyshouldmakeitintoatruespikesinceitssofreakinghardtoland

It's not so much for that as it is for glorious, fiery ground bounce top kills.

 

[Player -0]

Anyone thought of substituting meteor smash Dair with a footstool when going offstage?

It puts Roy in a better spot and you need to be in the same spot to get sweetspot Dair as a footstool.