Roy: Tip and Tricks

[FirexBolt]

I'm surprised people haven't mention U-air -> F-smash as much. I mean I've been doing it since I first used P:M Roy. If you catch a Marth off guard, as difficult as that can be, then it works really well. Regardless, I feel like this MU is more-so mind games. I used Marth WAY before Roy and watched Ken's Marth Tutorial to improve my Marth, and after I started using Roy I was able to do a lot of stuff I did with Marth while using Roy.

Tips I'd recommend:

• F-air camp, cuz Roy's sourspot on the F-air can be good from my experience tho I could be wrong
• Run in -> Wavedash back so they throw out some laggy move hopefully
• Poke at them with F-tilt
• For the love of the lord, please, please, please, please, PLEASE don't get grabbed

 

[Oddyesy]

Dash attack is pretty good for comboing into itself if people suck at DIing.

 

[Azureflames]

Dash attack is pretty good for comboing into itself if people suck at DIing.

The only problem i have with dash attack and why i try not to use it that much is that its typically a pretty punishable move. I feel like trying to string multiple dash attacks is a waste of better options for Roy for some situations (but by all means if they're that bad at DI'ing i guess its fine). I guess it depends which way you're facing if you wanna utilize which way the dash attack throws the opponent. I stick to only using one Dash attack as a mix up maybe on tech chases or something to get a free combo string.

 

[Oddyesy]

The only problem i have with dash attack and why i try not to use it that much is that its typically a pretty punishable move. I feel like trying to string multiple dash attacks is a waste of better options for Roy for some situations (but by all means if they're that bad at DI'ing i guess its fine). I guess it depends which way you're facing if you wanna utilize which way the dash attack throws the opponent. I stick to only using one Dash attack as a mix up maybe on tech chases or something to get a free combo string.

Yeah, I love using highly punishable moves and whiffing them. Just a part of my playstyle. But when I do get a hit in, I'll either see if they suck at DI and follow up with dash attack again or another aerial or some such.

 

[ShadowGanon]

Is Yoshi's Island beneficial for Roy in any way?

 

[Blade-Fox]

Is Yoshi's Island beneficial for Roy in any way?

The rising and falling platforms help mitigate Roy's recovery problems and give him more options when returning. The big middle platform helps with approaching and dodging and general movement. The edges are tilted meaning Neutral B, Side Smash and D-tilt extend even further below the edge and have a much better chance at hitting people before they reach the ledge.

 

[Sethlon]

I've found that the middle platform of Yoshi's Island helps against some of the characters that dthrow combo Roy really hard, like Ness and Link. Probly nice against Mario as well.

 

[ShadowGanon]

And all of these stages are beneficial to Roy as well?

Fountain of Dreams, WarioWare, Yoshi's Story, Green Hill Zone, and Lylat

 

[Foxy K]

And all of these stages are beneficial to Roy as well?

Fountain of Dreams, WarioWare, Yoshi's Story, Green Hill Zone, and Lylat

You'd have to be really careful recovering on Lylat, but otherwise, yes.

 

[Azureflames]

• For me personally its somewhat dependent on the character im playing against.
• In most every case i like Fountain of dreams, wario ware, yoshi's story, green hill zone, and battlefield.
• Against some characters i have a hard time with resetting momentum so i tend to like bigger stages that give me some room to breath like PS2, draculas castle, and dreamland.
• I'm starting to like skyworld a bit more since the cloud platforms are useful for aerial zoning and optional recovery mix ups, on top of being a somewhat small stage where Roy can zone people.
• I really dont like yoshi's island and lylat. For me the placement of the platforms can be nice for roy but can also work against him as well.
• It's overall harder to maneuver for me and reset momentum if im getting behind. Yoshi's island moveable platforms (or Randal II as me and my friend calls them) always mess with me on recovery and sometimes cost me stocks from it.
• I have trouble recovering on Lylat at times since theres a weird lip/ledge that sticks out which im never able to sweetspot (I always end up catching the lip and going under the stage or get totally punished by a smash)

 

[Shokio]

Don't know if anyone has done this yet, but I just discovered that Bair into Flare Blade is an actual thing.

I was fighting one of my friends on Smashville and the platform was off to the right side. Standing on the edge of it, I used DThrow --> Bair --> Midair Hop --> Flare Blade and got the kill with it.

The midair hop was a jump read. It was on Ganon and of course it was at low percentage, so I don't really know if these will work on anyone who isn't a heavyweight. But seeing as how it'll take people off-guard (because they only know Bair as a combo ender/kill move), I think it'll make for a nice off-stage combo option whenever you're near a blast zone or on stages like Yoshi's and Wario Ware.

It's seems extremely situational though, so I don't think it'd be very viable to actively try to pull it off.

(I also managed to get an Up-Smash spike kill on him during a match on Battlefield, it felt so great to pull off xD. My day was good.)

 

[Oaty]

I'm pretty sure that Bair to the flare blade isn't something people shouldn't go for too often it seems like a valid mix up though. It also seems like it could be punished pretty easily.

 

[Blade-Fox]

I'm still fiddling with the percents but this seems to be a pretty good combo on many characters at mid percentages:

U-tilt > FH F-Air > U-Air > FH B-Air

I usually get it when people are coming from above Roy. You hit with the back/ending part of U-Air that goes behind Roy and it pops them up just long enough for the B-Air.

 

[Oddyesy]

Don't know if anyone has done this yet, but I just discovered that Bair into Flare Blade is an actual thing.

I was fighting one of my friends on Smashville and the platform was off to the right side. Standing on the edge of it, I used DThrow --> Bair --> Midair Hop --> Flare Blade and got the kill with it.

The midair hop was a jump read. It was on Ganon and of course it was at low percentage, so I don't really know if these will work on anyone who isn't a heavyweight. But seeing as how it'll take people off-guard (because they only know Bair as a combo ender/kill move), I think it'll make for a nice off-stage combo option whenever you're near a blast zone or on stages like Yoshi's and Wario Ware.

It's seems extremely situational though, so I don't think it'd be very viable to actively try to pull it off.

(I also managed to get an Up-Smash spike kill on him during a match on Battlefield, it felt so great to pull off xD. My day was good.)

Note to self: use neutral b more often.

I'm pretty sure that Bair to the flare blade isn't something people should go for too often it seems like a valid mix up though. It also seems like it could be punished pretty easily.

Sounds like my kind of move. But it won't be too easy to punish, granted that you hit. But maybe sourspot bair to Flare Blade would work on mid/light weights or I'm totally misremembering bair's trajectory (and general forgetfulness of everything.)

 

[ShadowGanon]

I was just cruising the Marth boards, and I saw some guy talking about using wavebouncing for recovery. I'm assuming that would mean you would wait for hitstun to end and use the knockback that you received to get back to the edge. Now, in my mind that doesn't sound like it should work because by the time you're out of hitstun, you shouldn't have much momentum left from the launch... I would test it, but I'm busy today. So what do you guys think?

EDIT: Yes, he meant using side-b.

 

[G13_Flux]

actually it could work. you still can have momentum after hitstun ends. it might not change the distance too much, but it could serve to mix up how you get back to the stage to throw off an edge guarder.

also, sourspot bair > flare blade could work too. the problem is that the percent window where it works i think is pretty small, and sourspot bair isnt really the easiest hitbox to hit with. i think sourspot bair might actually be the least useful tool out of roys entire moveset. theoretically, theres a lot of combos that can work off of it (i think mostly from DI mixups) but when in game, you realize that his other options are usually better and its hard to hit with it.

 

[Oddyesy]

I was just cruising the Marth boards, and I saw some guy talking about using wavebouncing for recovery. I'm assuming that would mean you would wait for hitstun to end and use the knockback that you received to get back to the edge. Now, in my mind that doesn't sound like it should work because by the time you're out of hitstun, you shouldn't have much momentum left from the launch... I would test it, but I'm busy today. So what do you guys think?

Are you talking about wavebouncing Blazer? It seems to me that that would just result in a reverse up b. Or maybe a wavebounced Flare Blade to double jump to first hit DED and then Blazer when appropriate.

actually it could work. you still can have momentum after hitstun ends. it might not change the distance too much, but it could serve to mix up how you get back to the stage to throw off an edge guarder.

also, sourspot bair > flare blade could work too. the problem is that the percent window where it works i think is pretty small, and sourspot bair isnt really the easiest hitbox to hit with. i think sourspot bair might actually be the least useful tool out of roys entire moveset. theoretically, theres a lot of combos that can work off of it (i think mostly from DI mixups) but when in game, you realize that his other options are usually better and its hard to hit with it.

Yeah. Honestly, sweetspot bair might be Roy's best killing move. Low lag all around, probably the easiest thing ever to sweetspot, not that hard to set up into. It's also the most satisfying thing to hit with, when your opponent just flies off into the distance. Roy probably has the easiest and hardest attacks to sweetspot, with bair and dair respectively.

 

[Player -0]

Don't forget about those Platform Drop sweetspot dairs (when your opponent is on the platform with you).

 

[Oddyesy]

Don't forget about those Platform Drop sweetspot dairs (when your opponent is on the platform with you).

Ah, that just reminded me of my favorite thing to do with Roy. Get them on the top platform of BF or Yoshi's Story or whatever at like 100%, jump, dair sweetspot them so they bounce off the platform and you get a star KO. So satisfying.

 

[Blade-Fox]

Let's talk about the DED x recovery.

When Roy first came out, I read that his DED x would only stall him once and every other DED x wouldn't. I tried doing multiple DED x's to test it and it seemed to be true. Watched other Roy's and they also only used one to recover, even when recovering high.

Did something change in 3.0.1 and 3.0.2 or something because it seems like Sethlon is getting at least two stalls offstage.

 

[Oddyesy]

Let's talk about the DED x recovery.I funny

When Roy first came out, I read that his DED x would only stall him once and every other DED x wouldn't. I tried doing multiple DED x's to test it and it seemed to be true. Watched other Roy's and they also only used one to recover, even when recovering high.

Did something change in 3.0.1 and 3.0.2 or something because it seems like Sethlon is getting at least two stalls offstage.

I don't think the PMBR releases changelogs, so I guess we should ask Sethlon. I always do multiple first hit DEDs because it makes me feel safer. But that's just me. Best to ask Sethlon, though. I read somewhere that the properties of your next DED relied on what you previously did in the air, so...

 

[Sethlon]

The first DED gives the most amount of additional distance as far as recovery goes. The second gives only a little, and the third and on give pretty much none IIRC. The "float" of the DEDs doesn't get recharged until you touch stage. Nothing about that was changed between 3.01 and .02.

 

[Kally Wally]

Worth noting: "touch the stage" seems to mean "don't be in the middle of a waveland."

I learned that one the hard way.

 

[Blade-Fox]

The first DED gives the most amount of additional distance as far as recovery goes. The second gives only a little, and the third and on give pretty much none IIRC. The "float" of the DEDs doesn't get recharged until you touch stage. Nothing about that was changed between 3.01 and .02.

Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Sethlon]

Yeah, its definitely worth noting that "touch the stage" pretty much means "landing from the air onto the stage". Stuff like grabbing the ledge doesn't refresh it, nor does getting up from the ledge or doing a get up attack from it, you almost always have to get back into the air and land to have it refresh.

 

[Player -0]

So if I do a bunch of DED 1 in the air I'll only get boost from the first one?

 

[Oaty]

So if I do a bunch of DED 1 in the air I'll only get boost from the first one?

Yea.
So to regain the boost all I have to do is land correct?

 

[ShadowGanon]

So if I do a bunch of DED 1 in the air I'll only get boost from the first one?

The first one will give you a boost, the second one will give you a very slight boost, and any performed after those two won't give you a boost at all.

Yea.
So to regain the boost all I have to do is land correct?

Yes.

 

[BirdyBirds]

how exactly does roy side special work? i get 2 hits into the 'combo' and have no idea what i'm doing.

 

[Oddyesy]

how exactly does roy side special work? i get 2 hits into the 'combo' and have no idea what i'm doing.

Alright. Roy's side b can output 10 different hits, of which 4 can be done at a time. The first hit of DED cannot be changed, the second hit can be angled up, and the last two change depending on if you tilt your stick forward, up, or down (or back for the fourth hit).

To be able to get them all out, you have to be able to time your b presses instead of mashing them like you can with Marth in Brawl. It's kinda like the combo system in Mother 3 (I don't know what else I can liken this to, except for maybe DK's final smash).

Also third hit up is a meteor.

Also first hit DED can give you some air, and any consequent uses of it prior to retouching the ground results in less air, as you can see in our discussion above.

 

[ShadowGanon]

...The first two hits of DED cannot be changed...

Umm... Their are two different swings for the second hit of DED. Their is DED>> and DED>^.

 

[Oddyesy]

Umm... Their are two different swings for the second hit of DED. Their is DED>> and DED>^.

Really? I never knew. I'll edit.

 

[BirdyBirds]

It's kinda like the combo system in Mother 3

oh god, i have to hit b in time with the background music!!

but seriously, thanks. very informative! ^^

 

[Player -0]

What does the second hit up do?

 

[ShadowGanon]

What does the second hit up do?

[collapse=DED>^]

[/collapse]
Credit: Sethlon

 

[YaBoy]

What does the second hit up do?

in the "using DED" thread : http://smashboards.com/threads/using-ded.354494/

@ G13_Flux says that tilting the second hit up makes it come out faster. hitbox wise: 2nd up hits them up and back, where as 2nd foward hits them up and forward. Its not a huge difference but its there

regaurding refreshing the aerial stalls with DED, is it not refreshing from rolling onto stage and other such actions a bug or the intended purpose? seems like an unnecessary flaw.

 

[G13_Flux]

you can look in the frame data thread, but yes, >^ comes out 1 frame quicker, and is generally better for comboing. it its them more towards you and sets up well for >>^ which is really the only reliable way to connect with the fourth hits. you can also easily end after the second hit to get a grab or an fsmash or something else. the only time that the >> is more useful in my experience is if your opponent starts to really anticipate >^ and DIs towards you, since many characters can jump out of it at that point or avoid follow ups altogether. DIing towards you on >> is pretty much the worst DI possible in that case, as it will set them up perfectly for subsequent hits. so mixing up your second hit is quite crucial to avoid escapes through DI.

 

[BirdyBirds]

so, i'm playing roy. and if i try and Dair, it takes a LOOONG time for me to be able to jump and do other things. so, trying to jump and spike someone, i might get the spike then it just takes so long for me to be able to jump again that i end up killing myself as well. am i doing something wrong? also, it seems like when i watch sethlon or other roys, they can do their aerials a lot quicker than i can. like two Fairs in quick succession.

 

[G13_Flux]

so, i'm playing roy. and if i try and Dair, it takes a LOOONG time for me to be able to jump and do other things. so, trying to jump and spike someone, i might get the spike then it just takes so long for me to be able to jump again that i end up killing myself as well. am i doing something wrong? also, it seems like when i watch sethlon or other roys, they can do their aerials a lot quicker than i can. like two Fairs in quick succession.

I would recommend entirely against using dair offstage unless it's after a dtilt or in conjunction with a ledge hop. Use neutral b and fair instead. They are far more reliable.

Also, you just need to get the hang of not trying to press the next input to quickly, like in the case of successive fairs. try to aim for the very first actionable frame. Practice in training mode to get the hang of it

 

[BirdyBirds]

thanks, gonna practice that.