Yeerk
Smash Journeyman
Roy already has a good ledgegrab range, and he can grab the ledge behind him at the top of his upB anyway. I don't think this adds anything to that.
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Roy: Tip and Tricks
- Thread starter moltenrokk
- Start date
Kally Wally
Smash Ace
I did actually end up using it to grab a ledge forward, after posting that video, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have grabbed it if I was facing the other way. Can't say for certain, though.
Yeerk
Smash Journeyman
I really hope that is the case, it would give more reason to use it if you can think of it in time. I have, however, been able to grab the ledge backwards from ridiculously far away. He's got hands like Mario's. It would be an awesome edgeguard to an illusion or something.
(I'm freezing at work, just wanted to get my fingers moving. That's why I'm beating this subject to death, not just being contrary.)
Kally Wally
Smash Ace
It's fine. I believe the situation was that I actually went to far up - he ended up knee-level with the ledge, and as the end of my video shows, he can't grab the ledge backward from that high up.
Ways to land D-air meteor smash:
- F-air -> D-air
- D-tilt -> D-air
- U-air -> D-air (This one seems to be more of a late reaction on my friend's part but it may work on fast fallers)
- You could fast fall onto them while doiing it because it can pop them up for a N-air
- SH -> D-air Great edgeguarding tool against CF if they go too high from underneath you
- U-tilt -> Dair This works if you sourspot it and they go straight up.
moltenrokk
Smash Journeyman
Whenever I spike with Roy, I use his feet as a marker. So when you jump into the air, get your feet to overlap your opponent and it should connect. I believe the spike is literally right on the hilt of his sword.
moltenrokk
Smash Journeyman
And just saying, Up Tilt is so GOD LIKE. If you stale it out it, you can get about 3-4 Utilts in for like 40+ damage and then an any Ariel or Ftilt for fast fallers. Also, Roys Counter, so good.
Kally Wally
Smash Ace
I thought stale moves didn't lose knockback, only damage. Am I wrong?
G13_Flux
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
- Messages
- 1,076
yeah i can see OOS being an issue for roy. grab is ranged enough to punish well in front of him, and uair surprisingly is decent too to jump right into combos (not the best option though if you are getting frame trapped with pressure). behind him, dair works well because of its range, but again, if you are being pressured with quick attacks (spacies, falcon, peach, psychic kids, mewtwo probably too), then its definitely not an option.
Im interested to see what kinds of combos people will start creating with a tipped bair. like, soft bair > fair > sweetspot bair. or soft bair > neutral b > double jump and recover. if you are still onstage, you can probably combo uair from a soft bair, and continue a large chain that works the opponent offstage. i feel that using roys sweetspotted bair out of fair (using the bair hitbox in front of roy, ie. not the blade hitbox behind him) will be very useful to finish combos that work the opponent offstage.
Im interested to see what kinds of combos people will start creating with a tipped bair. like, soft bair > fair > sweetspot bair. or soft bair > neutral b > double jump and recover. if you are still onstage, you can probably combo uair from a soft bair, and continue a large chain that works the opponent offstage. i feel that using roys sweetspotted bair out of fair (using the bair hitbox in front of roy, ie. not the blade hitbox behind him) will be very useful to finish combos that work the opponent offstage.
moltenrokk
Smash Journeyman
To answer you question, Stale move works for both damage and knockback.
Shadic
Alakadoof?
That's wrong. Stale moves only weaken KB in Brawl. Melee stale moves work mostly like Melee, except multi-hit moves don't stale mid-move.
moltenrokk
Smash Journeyman
Oh well. I tried. Seems that way to be though
Shin_Mazinkaiser
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2013
- Messages
- 234
My only qualm with Fsmash is the startup on the move. But I can deal with his flaws.
AbstractLogic
Smash Journeyman
A Protip for landing a guaranteed Dair sweetspot. If you and an opponent are on a platform, you can platform drop Dair and it always sweetspots. It's crazy good for punishing missed techs and can usually lead into another sweetspot Dair.
BigHairyFart
Salty Supreme
Couldn't you just do a normal Up-B?
Kally Wally
Smash Ace
Yes, but then you wouldn't be holding the sword out in front of you. It's a good disjoint, and Roy needs any edge he can get while recovering.
Player -0
Smash Hero
Going up the side of FD with that seems pretty legit.
Also the front tip of down air sends opponents forward somewhat decently at mid-higher percents. Dair has giant lag time though.
Blank Mauser
Smash Champion
How to combo with Roy:
Dtilt > Neutral-B (x5)
Dtilt > Neutral-B (x5)
moltenrokk
Smash Journeyman
Don't think we've said it yet................ROY' S OUR BOY!
moltenrokk
Smash Journeyman
on another note. I find that using the first hit dancing blade technique after a Dtilt can combo back into itself. So........Dtilt--->jump--->first DB--->first DB--->so on and so on till you hit ground, should auto cancel the dancing blade when you land. Then just Dtilt again. Seemed like the hitstun from DB was long enough to get off a guaranteed Dtilt. Try it out and let me know how it works.
RPGsFTW
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2007
- Messages
- 754
So Roy is fun as hell and feels pretty ok to me for the most part, but that recovery is just dreadful. Every time I see Roy get knee'd at, say, 40~%, he is pretty much dead off stage because his fall speed just drags him to his doom. Feels very bad, man.
I've been trying out a lot of stuff with roy. Most of my friends only play heavies, so that's what I know.
Against DDD at 0, I can get fthrowx2>utiltx3>nair/bair/neutral b (but I don't think he's that great at DI). I love finishing up combos with nair. It's so good. I'm not the best at spacing atm, so this move is really helpful for me.
Other heavies, I can get fthrow>ftilt (anything else and they can tech before a regrab or w/e). Then follow up with a fair or dtilt etc.
I love ftilt sooo much. I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but I'm pretty sure that ftilt when timed right will ALWAYS beat mk glide attack. Much better than just sitting in shield. Fsmash and neutral b aren't good options against glide attack, but I think that ftilt is the answer. Can someone with experience with my mk players confirm this? I think ftilt will also beat tornado, but I'm not sure. Tornado is pretty bad now anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter.
So I get bored waiting onstage for my opponent to recover a lot of the time. It's difficult to go offstage and not sd with roy, though. He's just got a ton of cooldown lag from his moves, like fair, nair, bair, dair (ok I just listed all his aerials lol). He's such a fast faller that you can't recover. HOWEVER, I found that neutral b is actually great for offstage! It's got pretty low cooldown compared to the others. It's super strong even when uncharged, has huge hitbox, and you can b-reverse it if you need to. Sometimes I just like to troll a bit; fullhop>dj offstage so it looks like you're going after them way out there, but then just charge b for a while going down until you have to recover. Dem mindgames, man. I also like finishing regular strings with neutral b too. It's an awesome move.
I think I heard someone say that fair is safe on shield when you l-cancel, so either I'm really bad at l-canceling, or this isn't true. I just always get shieldgrabbed. Does anyone know how much hitstun there is for fair, and does it differ for different parts of the sword? Someone above suggested nair on shield; I haven't tried that yet but it seems good. Does nair have a longer range than fair?
Against DDD at 0, I can get fthrowx2>utiltx3>nair/bair/neutral b (but I don't think he's that great at DI). I love finishing up combos with nair. It's so good. I'm not the best at spacing atm, so this move is really helpful for me.
Other heavies, I can get fthrow>ftilt (anything else and they can tech before a regrab or w/e). Then follow up with a fair or dtilt etc.
I love ftilt sooo much. I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but I'm pretty sure that ftilt when timed right will ALWAYS beat mk glide attack. Much better than just sitting in shield. Fsmash and neutral b aren't good options against glide attack, but I think that ftilt is the answer. Can someone with experience with my mk players confirm this? I think ftilt will also beat tornado, but I'm not sure. Tornado is pretty bad now anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter.
So I get bored waiting onstage for my opponent to recover a lot of the time. It's difficult to go offstage and not sd with roy, though. He's just got a ton of cooldown lag from his moves, like fair, nair, bair, dair (ok I just listed all his aerials lol). He's such a fast faller that you can't recover. HOWEVER, I found that neutral b is actually great for offstage! It's got pretty low cooldown compared to the others. It's super strong even when uncharged, has huge hitbox, and you can b-reverse it if you need to. Sometimes I just like to troll a bit; fullhop>dj offstage so it looks like you're going after them way out there, but then just charge b for a while going down until you have to recover. Dem mindgames, man. I also like finishing regular strings with neutral b too. It's an awesome move.
I think I heard someone say that fair is safe on shield when you l-cancel, so either I'm really bad at l-canceling, or this isn't true. I just always get shieldgrabbed. Does anyone know how much hitstun there is for fair, and does it differ for different parts of the sword? Someone above suggested nair on shield; I haven't tried that yet but it seems good. Does nair have a longer range than fair?
G13_Flux
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
- Messages
- 1,076
nair hits twice, might have a bit shorter range than fair, but has more range that points downwards in front of roy leading it to be better at powering through straightforward approaches. because of its hitbox location and multi hit effect id say its much more reliable as a SHFFL than the one hit downward arcing fair. i know that marths fair is safe from a shieldgrab performed accurately, but i havent heard anything on roy. we need some frame data from the PMBR here!
KFrosty
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2013
- Messages
- 96
to add to what others have said, if you are ever playing free for all, this move would be useful to prevent people from trying to attack you when you attempt to edge hog.
Blade-Fox
Smash Apprentice
I've been messing around with Roy and edge guarding.
DED 3 Down and DED 4 Down got some interesting results since they angle down a little and produce multiple hit boxes. Against low returning recoveries, they both made the ledge near impossible to grab. My friend got hit when he tried recovering with Lucas' tether as well pretty far out. I think the tether extended his hurtbox but he was at least a full "Lucas" away from the tip of the sword and was still hit by it so it might do some interesting things with tether recoveries.
DED also seems to carry people off stage for DED 3 Up. It has more power to it but it's still a meteor. I've had varying amounts of success killing with it.
There's also F-Tilt angled down. Had some success with that but I've been focusing on DED. Seems really interesting. Also, I've been able to Dair sweetspot characters coming from below Roy. I'm still testing it out but you don't have to "put them on your back" when trying to land the sweetspot like in Melee. I've only done it twice but it looked like I was hitting it from Roy's left knee (if he's facing right).
DED 3 Down and DED 4 Down got some interesting results since they angle down a little and produce multiple hit boxes. Against low returning recoveries, they both made the ledge near impossible to grab. My friend got hit when he tried recovering with Lucas' tether as well pretty far out. I think the tether extended his hurtbox but he was at least a full "Lucas" away from the tip of the sword and was still hit by it so it might do some interesting things with tether recoveries.
DED also seems to carry people off stage for DED 3 Up. It has more power to it but it's still a meteor. I've had varying amounts of success killing with it.
There's also F-Tilt angled down. Had some success with that but I've been focusing on DED. Seems really interesting. Also, I've been able to Dair sweetspot characters coming from below Roy. I'm still testing it out but you don't have to "put them on your back" when trying to land the sweetspot like in Melee. I've only done it twice but it looked like I was hitting it from Roy's left knee (if he's facing right).
Yeerk
Smash Journeyman
Roy's bair turns him around in midair, but not if he lands before the move is over. This can be used to ledgecancel > edgehog. You can even ledgehop > bair > ledgecancel > edgehog, but I've only managed it on Lylat, where the edge is slanted. I don't know if you can do it elsewhere.
Konta
Smash Rookie
I'm fairly new to the smash "technical" community, so I'm quite confused on what people mean by DACUS and DED? Can someone possibly clarify it for me?
Kally Wally
Smash Ace
DED: Double Edge Dance, Roy's side-B. Marth's is called Dancing Blade.
ItsRainingGravy did a good writeup about DACUS here: http://smashboards.com/threads/dacu...gs-applications-and-other-information.344701/
ItsRainingGravy did a good writeup about DACUS here: http://smashboards.com/threads/dacu...gs-applications-and-other-information.344701/
Yeerk
Smash Journeyman
Here's a thread with more terms if you need them.
http://smashboards.com/threads/terms-abbreviations-and-concepts.331757/
http://smashboards.com/threads/terms-abbreviations-and-concepts.331757/
Yeerk
Smash Journeyman
You can F-tilt toward the ledge and immediately turn around to fall off and grab the ledge.
You can actually do Roy's wavebouncing Up B without actually wavebouncing it (I did this on accident and can sometimes replicate it). You probably need a perfect, one frame timing for it, but all you need to do is hit the reverse direction on Roy's regular up B on the frame that his sword is first in front of him. It's actually easier to do if you hit someone with it since the frames will pause a little longer on the first hits. You get less hits with it but I think it works out because the enemy actually gets sent higher if you don't connect all the hits.
Also I need to double check, but I think I can recall reverse grabbing the ledge when I did it. Could be useful for edge guarding game.
Also I need to double check, but I think I can recall reverse grabbing the ledge when I did it. Could be useful for edge guarding game.
Chesstiger2612
Smash Lord
About that staling. In Project M, only percentage is staling knockback isnt at least directly. But the knockback formula is actually (at least in vBrawl) dependent on the move damage, even if only a little bit. So do the moves still stale knockback by a little bit or is the formula changed?
Player -0
Smash Hero
I feel the PMBR would've looked into that but good question, I'm wondering that too now.
When I looked up how to wave bounce, the first step was to change the C stick set up. You don't have to do that with Roy's up B. After playing some more matches, you can backwards grab the edge if you wave bounce Roy's up B. I think it could come in handy if you edge guard by falling off the edge and using roy's bair, since that turns him around. if you're decently close to the edge, wave bouncing the up B will give you the vertical recovery you need to get back up if you fell down pretty far.
Kally Wally
Smash Ace
No part of B-reverse, wavebounce, or any other technique that stems from that specific mechanical interaction, requires any control editing. They can all be done with just the control stick and the B button. The thing you described - "hit the reverse direction on Roy's regular up B" - is exactly what I was doing in my video. Being unpracticed in doing so is the reason I kept screwing it up.
Similarly, wavebouncing Blazer doesn't make a backward grab possible, because it's already possible - doing so makes it easier, because Roy can grab forward for a longer window of time than he can grab backward. He has to touch the ledge with the top half of his body to grab backward, wavebounce or not. Wavebouncing allows you to grab forward when you would normally be forced to grab backward.
Similarly, wavebouncing Blazer doesn't make a backward grab possible, because it's already possible - doing so makes it easier, because Roy can grab forward for a longer window of time than he can grab backward. He has to touch the ledge with the top half of his body to grab backward, wavebounce or not. Wavebouncing allows you to grab forward when you would normally be forced to grab backward.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Just wondering, which one of Roy's aerials has the most killing potential?
His b-air seems pretty weak, unless there's a certain sweet spot to it that's hard to hit with. His neutral air seems like it could be a better killer and covers a wider area, not to mention it covers his landing.
His b-air seems pretty weak, unless there's a certain sweet spot to it that's hard to hit with. His neutral air seems like it could be a better killer and covers a wider area, not to mention it covers his landing.