Social Roy Social - R O Y B O Y Z

[Valzy]

Wow blast from the past, how have you been? Do you still play pokemon?

Also, tips on Roy are sourspots. They are useful, but for true punishes, go in for sweetspots. He's a challenging character, though, so you might find an easier time getting back into smash with an easier character. (It's really hard to give solid advice on such a broad subject tbh lol, sorry if that was pretty insubstantial).

Life's been good! I do play Pokemon occasionally, but definitely not nearly as much as I used to, and I don't do anything competitive anymore. I bought FE Conquest the day it came out, and throughly enjoyed it, although I miss Awakening's post story.

I finally found my smash game after probably a year of having lost it and I discovered that there was a bunch of DLC characters, and since I loved Roy in Melee, I'm considering buying him, but I'm kinda scared that he'll be a bit too similar to the other FE characters.

 

[EnGarde]

Life's been good! I do play Pokemon occasionally, but definitely not nearly as much as I used to, and I don't do anything competitive anymore. I bought FE Conquest the day it came out, and throughly enjoyed it, although I miss Awakening's post story.

I finally found my smash game after probably a year of having lost it and I discovered that there was a bunch of DLC characters, and since I loved Roy in Melee, I'm considering buying him, but I'm kinda scared that he'll be a bit too similar to the other FE characters.

Good stuff lol. I've been enjoying Conquest too. Honestly I don't play pokemon much at all anymore, and haven't even logged in at Smogon in months lol (In case you forgot who I am, I'm the one that used to have the Lucina avatar and was in the Type of the Month Club lol). Might do so now, just to say I did. I occasionally do a few randbats on Showdown with friends, but not much more than that lol.

As for Smash, if you aren't going to get all of the DLC characters, I would say you'll probably get most bang for your buck by getting Corrin first tbh. I absolutely adore both Roy and Corrin, and while I personally prefer Roy (his playstyle is <3 for me), Corrin's moveset is super unique while still feeling like a Fire Emblem character. Corrin is also an easier character to just pick up and play. Not gonna lie, but I love Corrin's counter lol. If you have enough to spare, though, I would also recommend Roy simply because he really is a fun character to play as lol.

Why not like sass them back or something?

Either way, I'm really sorry you and other girls have had to go through. Seriously,

It's just a huge irony to all this that I don't understand why.

Lady Kuki, from the bottom of my heart, I am sorry about all this and after reading all these post on woman gamers in the community, I am embarrassed to be a man and I am ashamed. I wish there was more I could do, but unfortunately I do not have the power to.

Again, I am sorry.



Then there's Shaya popping in with a random comment. How Australian.

Though it is good to see I'm not the only one who likes using Dair from time to time

I keep going back and forth on whether I want to comment on this topic, but I think at this point I will. I don't advertise my gender on most forums because I find the anonymity better; cuts down on a lot of the weirdness. I don't exactly hide it, I just don't advertise it. Well, besides the whole month or so I had girl!Roy as my avatar lol. (inb4 Serew reminds me that I'm actually a 10 y/o boy lolol)

Anywho, I've had a few creepy experiences, and I do get a lot of extra attention, both online and locally, and because I'm naturally a nice person, I've had people try and ask too much of my time in ways that make me uncomfortable. But, you haven't done this to me, or to Kuki that I'm aware of, or to anyone else. I appreciate your earnestness, but you don't have to apologize and take on the ills of every creepoid out there, and you most certainly shouldn't feel ashamed for being male because other men do bad stuff.

---

I see you liking my posts @GunBlaze

Spoiler: lol

 

[Serew]

(inb4 Serew reminds me that I'm actually a 10 y/o boy lolol)

Did you forget that you are?

 

[Valzy]

Good stuff lol. I've been enjoying Conquest too. Honestly I don't play pokemon much at all anymore, and haven't even logged in at Smogon in months lol (In case you forgot who I am, I'm the one that used to have the Lucina avatar and was in the Type of the Month Club lol). Might do so now, just to say I did. I occasionally do a few randbats on Showdown with friends, but not much more than that lol.

As for Smash, if you aren't going to get all of the DLC characters, I would say you'll probably get most bang for your buck by getting Corrin first tbh. I absolutely adore both Roy and Corrin, and while I personally prefer Roy (his playstyle is <3 for me), Corrin's moveset is super unique while still feeling like a Fire Emblem character. Corrin is also an easier character to just pick up and play. Not gonna lie, but I love Corrin's counter lol. If you have enough to spare, though, I would also recommend Roy simply because he really is a fun character to play as lol.

Yeah, I just checked in on smogon for the first time in a long time and many of the people I used to talked to are dead.


Is Roy similar to how he is in Melee? I pulled out my gamecube and he's still a blast to play on that.

I'll definitely check out Corrin tho

 

[EnGarde]

Yeah, I just checked in on smogon for the first time in a long time and many of the people I used to talked to are dead.


Is Roy similar to how he is in Melee? I pulled out my gamecube and he's still a blast to play on that.

I'll definitely check out Corrin tho

Yep, exactly lol. I might go back to actively playing pokemon at some point in the future, but not really anytime soon tbh. Having too much fun playing smash lol.

As for Roy, he is much faster now. He has one of the best air and ground speeds in the game, though they gave him less range on some of his attacks when compared to Marth (notably ftilt, utilt, fair, and uair). His mobility can be kind of hard to control, because he doesn't weave as well in the air compared to other high mobility characters like Jigglypuff.

He still has the sweetspot mechanic (stronger at the base of the sword), and he has throws that go in favorable angles (except back throw, which isn't very useful in general), but a lot of his "combos" are reads based and many of them are centered around jab, chaining aerials, and falling uair, so can be harder to get used to.

His weaknesses are that he doesn't have any auto-cancel aerials out of a short hop, so he always lands with landing lag (not a lot, but still enough to get punished), he is really easy for the opponent to juggle and combo at low and mid percents, and his recovery is average at best. This is what makes him harder to play compared to other characters lol.

 

[Valzy]

Yep, exactly lol. I might go back to actively playing pokemon at some point in the future, but not really anytime soon tbh. Having too much fun playing smash lol.

As for Roy, he is much faster now. He has one of the best air and ground speeds in the game, though they gave him less range on some of his attacks when compared to Marth (notably ftilt, utilt, fair, and uair). His mobility can be kind of hard to control, because he doesn't weave as well in the air compared to other high mobility characters like Jigglypuff.

He still has the sweetspot mechanic (stronger at the base of the sword), and he has throws that go in favorable angles (except back throw, which isn't very useful in general), but a lot of his "combos" are reads based and many of them are centered around jab, chaining aerials, and falling uair, so can be harder to get used to.

His weaknesses are that he doesn't have any auto-cancel aerials out of a short hop, so he always lands with landing lag (not a lot, but still enough to get punished), he is really easy for the opponent to juggle and combo at low and mid percents, and his recovery is average at best. This is what makes him harder to play compared to other characters lol.

I don't understand half of what you just said

 

[The Merc]

I keep going back and forth on whether I want to comment on this topic, but I think at this point I will. I don't advertise my gender on most forums because I find the anonymity better; cuts down on a lot of the weirdness. I don't exactly hide it, I just don't advertise it. Well, besides the whole month or so I had girl!Roy as my avatar lol. (inb4 Serew reminds me that I'm actually a 10 y/o boy lolol)

Anywho, I've had a few creepy experiences, and I do get a lot of extra attention, both online and locally, and because I'm naturally a nice person, I've had people try and ask too much of my time in ways that make me uncomfortable. But, you haven't done this to me, or to Kuki that I'm aware of, or to anyone else. I appreciate your earnestness, but you don't have to apologize and take on the ills of every creepoid out there, and you most certainly shouldn't feel ashamed for being male because other men do bad stuff.

I mean yeah, that is total 100% fair. If people want to stay anonymous that's fine. They have every right to. The internet has become a dark place over the years. Like Ii've been here for a year and a bit and i am still yet to tell anyone my age.

Yeah i know. But I still can't help but feel responsible for the actions of others. I just don't understand why people act like this towards others. It just makes no sense and I just.... I just wish the world could be a nicer place.

 

[EnGarde]

I don't understand half of what you just said

rip lol

Roy is fast and hits hard, but also gets combo'd and edge-guarded by other characters lol.

 

[Shaya]

Then there's Shaya popping in with a random comment. How Australian.

If people want my opinion on something they can ask, but there was little to comment on that felt necessary.
I've been in this community for a long time involved in every level one could think of; and have seen a lot of the great and a lot of the extremely ugly.
If I was going to interject personally, I've traveled across continents and I rate my travels heavily by getting to meet new people - I've met hundreds if not thousands of Smash players and I dislike the negative stigma that makes how I say hello or introduce myself to a smasher in the exact same way oft has differences based on gender. I've long made it a point to at least be androgynous in online settings due to how silly "gender" is in impersonal situations of any sort. We're humans first, and then many many things before gender.
At the same time I've grown weary of the "plight" of female smashers while other minorities (such as those with disabilities or other health/social issues) get widely accepted flack everywhere but rarely will anyone stand up for them. So before I go further, this is why I don't participate in such discussions - a lot has moved forward and female smashers should know that we aren't all bad and that there are people who will support you if harassment or discrimination occurs due to gender (although I know instances of this not being the case in some places) - although it is difficult to know who to turn to when you're a new smasher (but I at least treat every new smasher the same way). But for all those who are harassed and discriminated against that get left behind I feel significant sorrow for, but don't let my tone fool you, ANYONE experiencing this deserves support and compassion, I'm just over it being categorized as a gender issue more so than the average human being thoughtless/selfish pricks issue.
EVERYONE SHOULD FEEL WELCOME AND SAFE IN OUR COMMUNITY.
For as long as they are willing to do the same.


.. As an aside, I'm generally referring to the in person/local communities. Twitch chat or other similar bull **** isn't pleasant and sets a tone that could alienate; but the barriers for exiting the internet world to the more human realms are oft pretty steep for anyone anyway (it's best done with friend(s) by your side).

 

[The Merc]

If people want my opinion on something they can ask, but there was little to comment on that felt necessary.
I've been in this community for a long time involved in every level one could think of; and have seen a lot of the great and a lot of the extremely ugly.
If I was going to interject personally, I've traveled across continents and I rate my travels heavily by getting to meet new people - I've met hundreds if not thousands of Smash players and I dislike the negative stigma that makes how I say hello or introduce myself to a smasher in the exact same way oft has differences based on gender. I've long made it a point to at least be androgynous in online settings due to how silly "gender" is in impersonal situations of any sort. We're humans first, and then many many things before gender.
At the same time I've grown weary of the "plight" of female smashers while other minorities (such as those with disabilities or other health/social issues) get widely accepted flack everywhere but rarely will anyone stand up for them. So before I go further, this is why I don't participate in such discussions - a lot has moved forward and female smashers should know that we aren't all bad and that there are people who will support you if harassment or discrimination occurs due to gender (although I know instances of this not being the case in some places) - although it is difficult to know who to turn to when you're a new smasher (but I at least treat every new smasher the same way). But for all those who are harassed and discriminated against that get left behind I feel significantsorrow for, but don't let my tone fool you, ANYONE experiencing this deserves support and compassion, I'm just over it being categorized as a gender issue more so than the average human being thoughtless/selfish pricks issue.
EVERYONE SHOULD FEEL WELCOME AND SAFE IN OUR COMMUNITY.
For as long as they are willing to do the same.


.. As an aside, I'm generally referring to the in person/local communities. Twitch chat or other similar bull **** isn't pleasant and sets a tone that could alienate; but the barriers for exiting the internet world to the more human realms are oft pretty steep for anyone anyway.

I never thought of it that way. Huh, maybe i'm not as open mind as I think I am.

But you've got a point, there are other issues out there for other groups that are just as big if no bigger than the female smashers.

In the end, no one should be discriminated against, not matter who they are.

Sadly, that is unlike to happen since we do no live in a perfect world and never will. But we sure as hell can try to make it better

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

(casually edits out post)

 

[JCav]

*INCOMING BLOG POST*

I have a few things I would like to touch on. First off, I mentioned some stuff with DED the other day. I've been messing around with it and I want to share what I've found. SH Fair > DED is a true combo in training mode, and potentially can do 38% if you get all of the hits on DED 4 down. At zero percent, you can do SH fair > DED without using a double jump. At percents from roughly 10-30%, you can do SH fair > double jump DED for a true combo.

Now I realize that this is a training mode combo, and I feel like it can be escaped with proper DI. It's also worth noting that this only works if you get a sweetspotted fair. On top of this, you pretty much have to buffer the DED right away for this to work, which is obviously a huge commitment and easy punish if you miss. My question is what do you guys think about SH fair > DED?

Kind of going off what I said earlier, I've been trying to find some uses for wavebounce DED (check this out if you haven't seen it yet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLh1LFcjeg ). The best utility I've come up with so far is SH fair > wavebounce DED. It pretty much sends you back after the fair, I think it could be useful if you hit a shield with fair. So yeah, I'm trying to think of more creative ways to wavebounce DED.

For the next part of this blog post I'd like to discuss a tournament I went to today, here's the bracket:

http://pulse-gaming.challonge.com/SFW34

I got 13th out of 72, and I feel pretty good about this. First set I had to play a DK (Shammon), and one which I've lost to before. It's the only tournament set that I had on stream today so I'll share the video when it get posted. Anyway, I OFFICIALLY HAVE A DK PROBLEM. I lost to one on Saturday, and this set was pretty close in game 3. A few things I like that I did was f throw > read the tech away > dash attack for a KO. The other thing I liked was first hit nair > up tilt for a KO. Things I didn't like are that I'm using nair WAAAAAYYYYY to much. I nair into shields way too often, and game 3 I take about 50% from doing this. I also try to catch a getup with nair too often, and I get punished for this as well. At least its a bad habit and I know I have to fix it. (PS, this is another matchup I would LOVE Wolf for)

I made a decent run through loser's to end up getting 13th. I beat one of the better Ryu players in state (exJORDANary) in a pretty close set. dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523 , I know you said this matchup was tough, but I really think it's even or even in Roy's favor. Ryu doesn't have a lot of range and his sword can beat a lot of Ryu's moves too.

My next match was against another DK (Runes), and it was another game 3, but I pulled this one out. I feel good about beating a DK even though I still need to learn this matchup. The range that DK has is really a problem for me right now.

I beat a Bayo (Ori) and only died to a dumb combo one time. I honestly feel like Roy can handle this matchup. The fact that she's pretty light is a great advantage, and once again having a sword really helps. A majority of people feel like she'll get nerfed soon, and this only helps us more.

I finally lost to a Yoshi (Meatbeef). This is the same Yoshi that I beat a few weeks ago, but he played the matchup better this time. I got spiked twice, which was pretty huge. I feel like Yoshi can exploit Roy's recovery pretty well, and it's very hard to go after Yoshi off stage of even try for a ledge trump. Despite Yoshi's advantages, this matchup is pretty close and might be even imo.

That's enough writing for now. In conclusion, I'm content with how I did today and understand a few areas that I have to improve on to get better. I'm looking forward to another tournament on Saturday where I hope to keep showing people what Roy can do.

 

[EnGarde]

*INCOMING BLOG POST*

I have a few things I would like to touch on. First off, I mentioned some stuff with DED the other day. I've been messing around with it and I want to share what I've found. SH Fair > DED is a true combo in training mode, and potentially can do 38% if you get all of the hits on DED 4 down. At zero percent, you can do SH fair > DED without using a double jump. At percents from roughly 10-30%, you can do SH fair > double jump DED for a true combo.

Now I realize that this is a training mode combo, and I feel like it can be escaped with proper DI. It's also worth noting that this only works if you get a sweetspotted fair. On top of this, you pretty much have to buffer the DED right away for this to work, which is obviously a huge commitment and easy punish if you miss. My question is what do you guys think about SH fair > DED?

Kind of going off what I said earlier, I've been trying to find some uses for wavebounce DED (check this out if you haven't seen it yet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLh1LFcjeg ). The best utility I've come up with so far is SH fair > wavebounce DED. It pretty much sends you back after the fair, I think it could be useful if you hit a shield with fair. So yeah, I'm trying to think of more creative ways to wavebounce DED.

For the next part of this blog post I'd like to discuss a tournament I went to today, here's the bracket:

http://pulse-gaming.challonge.com/SFW34

I got 13th out of 72, and I feel pretty good about this. First set I had to play a DK (Shammon), and one which I've lost to before. It's the only tournament set that I had on stream today so I'll share the video when it get posted. Anyway, I OFFICIALLY HAVE A DK PROBLEM. I lost to one on Saturday, and this set was pretty close in game 3. A few things I like that I did was f throw > read the tech away > dash attack for a KO. The other thing I liked was first hit nair > up tilt for a KO. Things I didn't like are that I'm using nair WAAAAAYYYYY to much. I nair into shields way too often, and game 3 I take about 50% from doing this. I also try to catch a getup with nair too often, and I get punished for this as well. At least its a bad habit and I know I have to fix it. (PS, this is another matchup I would LOVE Wolf for)

I made a decent run through loser's to end up getting 13th. I beat one of the better Ryu players in state (exJORDANary) in a pretty close set. dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523 , I know you said this matchup was tough, but I really think it's even or even in Roy's favor. Ryu doesn't have a lot of range and his sword can beat a lot of Ryu's moves too.

My next match was against another DK (Runes), and it was another game 3, but I pulled this one out. I feel good about beating a DK even though I still need to learn this matchup. The range that DK has is really a problem for me right now.

I beat a Bayo (Ori) and only died to a dumb combo one time. I honestly feel like Roy can handle this matchup. The fact that she's pretty light is a great advantage, and once again having a sword really helps. A majority of people feel like she'll get nerfed soon, and this only helps us more.

I finally lost to a Yoshi (Meatbeef). This is the same Yoshi that I beat a few weeks ago, but he played the matchup better this time. I got spiked twice, which was pretty huge. I feel like Yoshi can exploit Roy's recovery pretty well, and it's very hard to go after Yoshi off stage of even try for a ledge trump. Despite Yoshi's advantages, this matchup is pretty close and might be even imo.

That's enough writing for now. In conclusion, I'm content with how I did today and understand a few areas that I have to improve on to get better. I'm looking forward to another tournament on Saturday where I hope to keep showing people what Roy can do.

Added to the results spreadsheet.

I remember hearing about fair > DED before. iirc originally in the same context as dtilt > DED, specifically going with the down variant to break shields lol. Not true or guaranteed, mind, because they can roll to escape, but it's a fun thing if they don't know the MU. Good stuff though lol.

If we're talking about tournaments, I guess now is a good time to mention I went to Xanadu on Tuesday. It's a long drive but I'm going to try and go to them consistently. I got matched with the same olimar player as last time round 1, and lost again, though I think I did a little better this time. I'm still not quite sure what to do in this MU, and all the pikmin are pretty confusing lol. I won a set against a beginner Ryu, then lost a close set against a greninja player due to an SD (accidentally reversed my up+b ._.) . I feel like I had a better grasp on neutral than he did, but I ate a few uair juggles poorly, which was how he was able to tack on damage. I had some trouble KO'ing tbh, but that's an issue I have as a player. I'm also still fairly inconsistent, and I have trouble with technical execution (the SD being a prime example), but I think I'm improving, which is the most important point.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

God all of u goes write in pages how do guys have the patience

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

*INCOMING BLOG POST*

I have a few things I would like to touch on. First off, I mentioned some stuff with DED the other day. I've been messing around with it and I want to share what I've found. SH Fair > DED is a true combo in training mode, and potentially can do 38% if you get all of the hits on DED 4 down. At zero percent, you can do SH fair > DED without using a double jump. At percents from roughly 10-30%, you can do SH fair > double jump DED for a true combo.

Now I realize that this is a training mode combo, and I feel like it can be escaped with proper DI. It's also worth noting that this only works if you get a sweetspotted fair. On top of this, you pretty much have to buffer the DED right away for this to work, which is obviously a huge commitment and easy punish if you miss. My question is what do you guys think about SH fair > DED?

Kind of going off what I said earlier, I've been trying to find some uses for wavebounce DED (check this out if you haven't seen it yet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLh1LFcjeg ). The best utility I've come up with so far is SH fair > wavebounce DED. It pretty much sends you back after the fair, I think it could be useful if you hit a shield with fair. So yeah, I'm trying to think of more creative ways to wavebounce DED.

For the next part of this blog post I'd like to discuss a tournament I went to today, here's the bracket:

http://pulse-gaming.challonge.com/SFW34

I got 13th out of 72, and I feel pretty good about this. First set I had to play a DK (Shammon), and one which I've lost to before. It's the only tournament set that I had on stream today so I'll share the video when it get posted. Anyway, I OFFICIALLY HAVE A DK PROBLEM. I lost to one on Saturday, and this set was pretty close in game 3. A few things I like that I did was f throw > read the tech away > dash attack for a KO. The other thing I liked was first hit nair > up tilt for a KO. Things I didn't like are that I'm using nair WAAAAAYYYYY to much. I nair into shields way too often, and game 3 I take about 50% from doing this. I also try to catch a getup with nair too often, and I get punished for this as well. At least its a bad habit and I know I have to fix it. (PS, this is another matchup I would LOVE Wolf for)

I made a decent run through loser's to end up getting 13th. I beat one of the better Ryu players in state (exJORDANary) in a pretty close set. dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523 , I know you said this matchup was tough, but I really think it's even or even in Roy's favor. Ryu doesn't have a lot of range and his sword can beat a lot of Ryu's moves too.

My next match was against another DK (Runes), and it was another game 3, but I pulled this one out. I feel good about beating a DK even though I still need to learn this matchup. The range that DK has is really a problem for me right now.

I beat a Bayo (Ori) and only died to a dumb combo one time. I honestly feel like Roy can handle this matchup. The fact that she's pretty light is a great advantage, and once again having a sword really helps. A majority of people feel like she'll get nerfed soon, and this only helps us more.

I finally lost to a Yoshi (Meatbeef). This is the same Yoshi that I beat a few weeks ago, but he played the matchup better this time. I got spiked twice, which was pretty huge. I feel like Yoshi can exploit Roy's recovery pretty well, and it's very hard to go after Yoshi off stage of even try for a ledge trump. Despite Yoshi's advantages, this matchup is pretty close and might be even imo.

That's enough writing for now. In conclusion, I'm content with how I did today and understand a few areas that I have to improve on to get better. I'm looking forward to another tournament on Saturday where I hope to keep showing people what Roy can do.

Yoooo, Roy is my boy but I'm tempted to say Jcav is right now....

I'll experiment with DED wavebounce a lot more now, you've opened my eyes a bit on the option with that video when I didn't see as much in it beforehand.
I'm labbing it as I type this.
I'm using it after IASA fair, and I wish we could still wavebounce after it =(
Though it seems I can fair, jump in the tiny IASA window, then immediately cancel the jump with wavebounce DED for the same thing, but with even more options. It's extremely difficult but I'll invest in it, I can see it as a very noteworthy option versus shield if mastered.
I really like the idea of using it to veer away from someone's shield like that, one of Roy's core weaknesses is shields and this could open up a lot for our character and his potential, I'll have to test this.

SPEAKING of which, this is now making me think of wavebounce Flare Blade after fair IASA because of its low endlag and how safe of an option it could be. You could hit their shield after the fair to punish any baited drop shield to punish fair attempts, and you could hold the charge as a mixup. Is it possible to wavebounce Flare Blade reliably, but with cstick set to special? This could really mitigate fair's landing lag. If we have the option to fair and retreat like that with mixups from DED swings, Flare Blade, and wavebounce, it would give our character:

• Increased safety on shield
• New fair confirms
• Edgeguard opportunities
• Better recovery

Our biggest core issues would have a bit of help from one technique, the wavebounce. How much we push that help depends on how much we invest in that technique.

I've been experimenting a lot with control schemes. Right now I'm labbing with a GC controller scheme that's a hybrid of bidou and regular controls, so I can stick with it and rely on regular controls at the same time if I fail to pick up bidou enough to play regularly with it in time, or when lag murders bidou.

Things we should try with wavebounce DED:

• From shield, back facing away from opponent: While your back's facing them, short hop away from them and then wait a bit. Wavebounce DED into them. When they think you have no options at your back, they eat DED.
• Edgeguarding. After we swing, we wavebounce towards the stage. This way, we get more mileage out of our most minuscule resource and save our others, while extending how deep we can go.
• Recovery. Same as above.
• Fake-out/bait: Mostly useful when they're in the air. While moving towards them, wavebounce backwards and see how they react. Punish.
• Ledge: We can fake them out here too. When we swing with DED, we can space outside of certain attempts to hit us or move around us.
• Going below ledge: While we're onstage, due to our mobility, we can be a decent amount of distance away from the ledge, then wavebounce DED right below the stage while swinging a few times.
• Suicide move/gimp: If we tap characters who have linear recoveries with DED, we can sometimes KO them by them not being able to recover or by stealing their jump. There might be situations where we can trade a stock with wavebounce DED. I might be heavily overrating this, as I have no way to practice it right now.
• Kill confirm/combo starter? It launches them at a unique angle, namely with the tip hitbox, and we cover their escape and/or landing after. Roy is a beast at covering landings, and if we master our landing coverage, the stock's as good as ours once the DED 1 hits.

There's definitely going to be more uses as we get more creative. This is just from one basic lab session and I'm excited to try it out more. Of course I'm going to work on much-needed fundamentals, but it doesn't hurt to learn this alongside them, and it's all about the long-term goals for me.

My control scheme is:

(Gamecube)

L: Special Move (for bidou)
R: Shield (default)
Z: Grab (default)
Y: Grab (for pivot grabs)
X: Jump (default)
B: Special Move (default)
A: Attack (default)
C: Special Move (for wavebounce and bidou)

Rumble: Off (ew rumble)
Tap Jump: Off (no randomly-eaten DJ's )
A+B Smash: Off

I came off of default controls all this time from this weekend, so it's a definite shift. The next tournaments I'm going to are in May, and this isn't TOO huge of a change to have down by then, so I have plenty of time to learn and improve while shifting my muscle memory over to be capable of Roy's more potent technical tools.

I need to go do a few things, but I hope this sparks some ideas and gets some wavebounce seeds planted.

 

[TheSpnBrm]

I really like the idea of using it to veer away from someone's shield like that, one of Roy's core weaknesses is shields

On that subject I've been dabbling with Biduo myself. Biduo PP into Dtilt works well as a safe approaching tool due to it's shield push and also applies decent shield pressure. Mixing this Extended Dash Dances into a DED can pressure to the point of shield breaks.

Also question, is it possible to reverse wavebounce DED to aid in our recovery?

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

On that subject I've been dabbling with Biduo myself. Biduo PP into Dtilt works well as a safe approaching tool due to it's shield push and also applies decent shield pressure. Mixing this Extended Dash Dances into a DED can pressure to the point of shield breaks.

Also question, is it possible to reverse wavebounce DED to aid in our recovery?

You can also pp during your extended dash dance and dtilt, which is really nice. Another thing to try is pp shield after dtilt as a mixup to make it safer, and to try pp shield after other options.

I need to use this in matches so I can try it with recovery. I'm thinking this could mean lots of free distance from a wavebounce DED, think of it as Corrin's back air with probably more distance; it's pretty nice for Roy to possibly have since Corrin can't wavebounce his side-b like us and we can use this while we're facing away from the stage.

Since back air turns us around, we can use bair to position ourselves for wavebounces, for stage-related mixups and possibly recovery.

 

[TheSpnBrm]

You can also pp during your extended dash dance and dtilt, which is really nice. Another thing to try is pp shield after dtilt as a mixup to make it safer, and to try pp shield after other options.

I need to use this in matches so I can try it with recovery. I'm thinking this could mean lots of free distance from a wavebounce DED, think of it as Corrin's back air with probably more distance; it's pretty nice for Roy to possibly have since Corrin can't wavebounce his side-b like us and we can use this while we're facing away from the stage.

Since back air turns us around, we can use bair to position ourselves for wavebounces, for stage-related mixups and possibly recovery.

PP's really make our play quite safe on shield and the movement options help our neutral so much, oh while I remember. PP to full hop B reverse is a pretty safe neutral option. Hopefully I can pull some results soon, we just got a local in my area (I live in Cary NC) and we had a great turnout last week. Dandy Penguin lives in the area I believe and was there with his Duck Hunt and I believe he's going to be regularly attending. So needless to say there is a some healthy competition to bring my Roy up to par.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

PP's really make our play quite safe on shield and the movement options help our neutral so much, oh while I remember. PP to full hop B reverse is a pretty safe neutral option. Hopefully I can pull some results soon, we just got a local in my area (I live in Cary NC) and we had a great turnout last week. Dandy Penguin lives in the area I believe and was there with his Duck Hunt and I believe he's going to be regularly attending. So needless to say there is a some healthy competition to bring my Roy up to par.

I'm not liking what I'm getting out of perfect pivot into a full hop b-reverse Flare Blade, Roy doesn't really have any momentum from it for a proper b-reverse since the pp doesn't carry momentum and he sort of just throws it out while falling straight down vertically or floats down vertically while it's charging. It seems like it utilizes a lot of movement inputs for something that doesn't offer movement or safety. It also seems unnecessarily technical, since I could just walk/dash forward and Flare Blade rather than perfect pivot and b-reverse for the same direction and distance, with how we can jump at any point while grounded. I might be doing it wrong, could I please get a video with some examples if possible?

Yoooo Dandy Penguin!! I saw one of his combo videos recently, that's pretty cool. I wish you the best at your locals, how close/far are they?

EDIT: Here's some very basic wavebounce usage. Not the best, but it does show some opportunities for it, and like I said in the description, I just need to shake off the awkward feeling of implementation over time.

 

[TheSpnBrm]

I'm not liking what I'm getting out of perfect pivot into a full hop b-reverse Flare Blade, Roy doesn't really have any momentum from it for a proper b-reverse since the pp doesn't carry momentum and he sort of just throws it out while falling straight down vertically or floats down vertically while it's charging. It seems like it utilizes a lot of movement inputs for something that doesn't offer movement or safety. It also seems unnecessarily technical, since I could just walk/dash forward and Flare Blade rather than perfect pivot and b-reverse for the same direction and distance, with how we can jump at any point while grounded. I might be doing it wrong, could I please get a video with some examples if possible?

Yoooo Dandy Penguin!! I saw one of his combo videos recently, that's pretty cool. I wish you the best at your locals, how close/far are they?

EDIT: Here's some very basic wavebounce usage. Not the best, but it does show some opportunities for it, and like I said in the description, I just need to shake off the awkward feeling of implementation over time.

The PP is mostly for ease of use when in Biduo a RAR motion works fine with it as well (I just prefer doing it this way when in Biduo) . Make sure that you backflip as if you were going to jump over them, That's where the momentum will be coming from, It's mostly used when you want to fake a cross up and be safe while doing so versus just a raw neutral tool.

Thanks also, It'll be a great place to get my practice in and improve. It's really close to my house funny enough like, 7 mins I think? But yeah Danny's a pretty cool guy, he seemed pretty interested when I spoke to him about Biduo and it's applications on Roy saying that Roy's top tier speed could really pull something off with it given we find the right way to optimize it.

 

[Ura]

Forgot to mention that yesterday was the 1 year anniversary of the Royu leaks.

What a crazy day that was. I was so happy to see that Roy might have been returning to Smash and excited at the prospect of Ryu in Smash. Unfortunately their were a ton of people to rain down on our parade and out came a massive amount of hate for Roy in the coming days which made the road to E3 rather tedious having to go back and forth with these people.

It all paid off though...

 

[The Merc]

is it sad that i didn't know anything about these techniques for Roy?

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

is it sad that i didn't know anything about these techniques for Roy?

No, because now's the perfect time to look into and utilize them, and add more to your kit as a player while tapping more into Roy's unexplored tools.

 

[EnGarde]

The Merc Another picture for you.

Spoiler: Spiderman!

 

[Lady Kuki]

So like guys, came back from another tournament today! It was the same as always; got eliminated in both winners and losers 2-0.

Exceeept things were a little different...

I had to fight 6WX the first round. Like... wow. The funny thing is, I wasn't nervous in the match at all, and I didn't even know that 6WX even came to our tournament today. Really nice guy. We spoke but only a little. Hope I get to meet him again soon.

Also met some of the MVG Crew and other Floridian like Ryo, Cherubi and Saj. Again, really nice guys altogether.

Was playing some good ol' MVC3 for laughs. Had a guy help me how to play the game, was a blast.

Also met a fellow Zero fan; he let me borrow his Megaman Zero Collection for me to play and introduced me into an MMX OVA.

While I did have a lot of fun, I'm still feeling bummed out over being eliminated so early. I'm not salty or angry; just very disappointed. I am getting better, but I'm afraid I won't improve? Like, I'm afraid that Smash may not be my talent, and that's scary because I do want to be decent at it. Like I'm still having trouble reading and conditioning my opponents. I also have a hard time killing my opponents. It's like I sometimes wonder why I bother trying if I can't beat anyone at any of the tournaments I go to, not even anyone in friendlies. ._.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

So like guys, came back from another tournament today! It was the same as always; got eliminated in both winners and losers 2-0.

Exceeept things were a little different...

I had to fight 6WX the first round. Like... wow. The funny thing is, I wasn't nervous in the match at all, and I didn't even know that 6WX even came to our tournament today. Really nice guy. We spoke but only a little. Hope I get to meet him again soon.

Also met some of the MVG Crew and other Floridian like Ryo, Cherubi and Saj. Again, really nice guys altogether.

Was playing some good ol' MVC3 for laughs. Had a guy help me how to play the game, was a blast.

Also met a fellow Zero fan; he let me borrow his Megaman Zero Collection for me to play and introduced me into an MMX OVA.

While I did have a lot of fun, I'm still feeling bummed out over being eliminated so early. I'm not salty or angry; just very disappointed. I am getting better, but I'm afraid I won't improve? Like, I'm afraid that Smash may not be my talent, and that's scary because I do want to be decent at it. Like I'm still having trouble reading and conditioning my opponents. I also have a hard time killing my opponents. It's like I sometimes wonder why I bother trying if I can't beat anyone at any of the tournaments I go to, not even anyone in friendlies. ._.

Those are things that will come with time. We all get destroyed a lot before we grow. Nobody starts off winning tournaments, unless you're Ally, but like... there's countless pros who struggled for YEARS before they got anything done. The reason I look up to NAKAT so much is because he would talk about his early journey, about how he started off getting double 3-stocked and going 0-2, then hearing about his work over time. Now he's someone who wins tournaments. M2K was awful, but he put in thousands of hours to, at one point, become the #1 Melee player and #1 Brawl player in the world at the same time. I have not put in anything near that and really need to step it up before I can keep dwelling on the thoughts I dwell on.

My recent mental block is needing to represent Roy NOW, needing to be able to compare to Ryo's Roy NOW, and just feeling entitled over putting 9-10 months of Roy in this game and years in Melee and PM. I was really hard on myself lately for going 2-2 twice, when that shouldn't be my biggest concern or anywhere near it.
I'm still trying to work around it, it will take time, but I'm going to kick it and learn how to enjoy the game most and improve over time without trying to force or rush anything eventually.
I WILL fix this mentality that's continually given me issues, I know I can do better for myself and for those in the community. I will make this a better community and I will shape myself into who I want to be.

I'm willing to put in the months and years, and I'm letting burnout and laziness and entitlement keep a hold on me and drag me into low lows over and over. I'm working on balancing my energy and my highs and lows to accomplish this. I fail often, even now, but I'm getting better over time. I've had a lot of progress the last 3 days. I'm going to apply this to Smash.
I don't want to just prove to people I can do this, this is something I need to do for me, so I'll get it down regardless.

There was one point, where I played Project M friendlies with someone in 2013. Now, he doesn't play Peach. He picked Peach, only used side-b, and 3 or 4 stocked me. I will always remember that match. A little over a year later, I was already going to tournaments, making friends, watching sets, and labbing really hard to be good at Melee and PM. I really invested in Smash 4 when it was coming. I watched the invitational live, studied the official beta tournaments, and watched VGBootCamp's moveset videos. When the 3DS version came out in Japan, I watched streamers who put their matches on YouTube, and watched Shockwave when it first started. When the game came out, I was already traveling to play it, and putting in work even if my main didn't make it.

I played that same guy, and I was 2 or 3 stocking him consistently. Be it whether I used Marth, Falco, Sheik, Ike, Ness, DK, or Robin, I would really put the hurt on him. That's the most accomplished I ever felt with Smash, and the most I've seen come from my work.

I really got scrubbed on by a PM Ganondorf who was one of our state's best Melee/PM players at my first Smash tournament. A lot of people watched me go something like 0-22 to him in friendlies. I kept playing and playing because I wanted to see what he was doing to win. A while later, I was playing friendlies with him in Melee before he moved away. I was going even with him as Roy.

The difference between then and now? I've lost a lot of my constructive mentality and drive. It's still there, and I know I have to dig for it and get over a lot of recent stuff that's piled up first. I'm getting it back slowly. Once I have it, I'll likely be at that balance I'm striving for again.

But I believe in you. I will play you on wifi one of these days if you're willing, and I will do what I can to help. I find voice chat best for getting and giving advice on improvement, but if that's not ideal, I can jot down notes as we play. I think, by the end of the year, you could start placing a lot better as brackets go by.

 

[TheSpnBrm]

Those are things that will come with time. We all get destroyed a lot before we grow. Nobody starts off winning tournaments, unless you're Ally, but like... there's countless pros who struggled for YEARS before they got anything done. The reason I look up to NAKAT so much is because he would talk about his early journey, about how he started off getting double 3-stocked and going 0-2, then hearing about his work over time. Now he's someone who wins tournaments. M2K was awful, but he put in thousands of hours to, at one point, become the #1 Melee player and #1 Brawl player in the world at the same time. I have not put in anything near that and really need to step it up before I can keep dwelling on the thoughts I dwell on.

My recent mental block is needing to represent Roy NOW, needing to be able to compare to Ryo's Roy NOW, and just feeling entitled over putting 9-10 months of Roy in this game and years in Melee and PM. I was really hard on myself lately for going 2-2 twice, when that shouldn't be my biggest concern or anywhere near it.
I'm still trying to work around it, it will take time, but I'm going to kick it and learn how to enjoy the game most and improve over time without trying to force or rush anything eventually.
I WILL fix this mentality that's continually given me issues, I know I can do better for myself and for those in the community. I will make this a better community and I will shape myself into who I want to be.

I'm willing to put in the months and years, and I'm letting burnout and laziness and entitlement keep a hold on me and drag me into low lows over and over. I'm working on balancing my energy and my highs and lows to accomplish this. I fail often, even now, but I'm getting better over time. I've had a lot of progress the last 3 days. I'm going to apply this to Smash.
I don't want to just prove to people I can do this, this is something I need to do for me, so I'll get it down regardless.

There was one point, where I played Project M friendlies with someone in 2013. Now, he doesn't play Peach. He picked Peach, only used side-b, and 3 or 4 stocked me. I will always remember that match. A little over a year later, I was already going to tournaments, making friends, watching sets, and labbing really hard to be good at Melee and PM. I really invested in Smash 4 when it was coming. I watched the invitational live, studied the official beta tournaments, and watched VGBootCamp's moveset videos. When the 3DS version came out in Japan, I watched streamers who put their matches on YouTube, and watched Shockwave when it first started. When the game came out, I was already traveling to play it, and putting in work even if my main didn't make it.

I played that same guy, and I was 2 or 3 stocking him consistently. Be it whether I used Marth, Falco, Sheik, Ike, Ness, DK, or Robin, I would really put the hurt on him. That's the most accomplished I ever felt with Smash, and the most I've seen come from my work.

I really got scrubbed on by a PM Ganondorf who was one of our state's best Melee/PM players at my first Smash tournament. A lot of people watched me go something like 0-22 to him in friendlies. I kept playing and playing because I wanted to see what he was doing to win. A while later, I was playing friendlies with him in Melee before he moved away. I was going even with him as Roy.

The difference between then and now? I've lost a lot of my constructive mentality and drive. It's still there, and I know I have to dig for it and get over a lot of recent stuff that's piled up first. I'm getting it back slowly. Once I have it, I'll likely be at that balance I'm striving for again.

But I believe in you. I will play you on wifi one of these days if you're willing, and I will do what I can to help. I find voice chat best for getting and giving advice on improvement, but if that's not ideal, I can jot down notes as we play. I think, by the end of the year, you could start placing a lot better as brackets go by.

I'm very eager to be a nice rep for Roy out myself too MasonEliwood. It means a lot to me to show others what Roy is capable of and how swift he can be with a good player behind the wheel. That being said I've only recently made the jump from Online to Local tourneys and getting bodied is one of the most important parts of that process. Right now I'm learning how to stand my ground with my style of play and training myself to use Biduo, I'll be some losses but once everything is down I'll be able to use the faster paced Melee inspired playstyle I've envisioned and show people why I made the choice to place my time into learning Roy. But until then just learn to enjoy the process, and practice with others people who feel the same about their characters. Iron sharpens iron you know?

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I'm very eager to be a nice rep for Roy out myself too MasonEliwood. It means a lot to me to show others what Roy is capable of and how swift he can be with a good player behind the wheel. That being said I've only recently made the jump from Online to Local tourneys and getting bodied is one of the most important parts of that process. Right now I'm learning how to stand my ground with my style of play and training myself to use Biduo, I'll be some losses but once everything is down I'll be able to use the faster paced Melee inspired playstyle I've envisioned and show people why I made the choice to place my time into learning Roy. But until then just learn to enjoy the process, and practice with others people who feel the same about their characters. Iron sharpens iron you know?

Good stuff, I believe Roy specifically can really push these technical things you're aspiring for. Do you still play online? I can do 3DS if it's the only option, I'm limited with a few things by the system but I can still do just about everything fundamentally.

 

[EnGarde]

Like, I'm afraid that Smash may not be my talent, and that's scary because I do want to be decent at it.

If you only want to be decent at the game, and are only playing enough to be decent, you will find that forwards progress will come a lot slower, and there will be people that are hungrier for the win than you and that are putting in more work (or have been around longer and have put in that work earlier on) that you'll not beat.

If you want to improve at the game, you have to be honest with yourself about the quantity and, more importantly, the quality of practice time you're putting into the game. I have had Smash 4 and I've been playing it since it released, but being truly honest with myself (and not gonna lie ), I didn't start playing seriously and going to locals until the beginning of March. So, to de-toxify my own mindset, I keep in mind that I've only been playing seriously for about a month and a half at this point, and I remember not to get ahead of myself lol.

---

For those of you that are practicing bidou, did you know that you can pseudo-bidou using tilt stick and an attack button set to a shoulder option? I myself am not investing in bidou or tilt stick bidou atm, since I have quite a few other elements of my gameplay that I'm focusing on, but if you're investing in bidou, you might find that that's worth investigating as a way of keeping the benefits of attack stick for aerials and tilts while still getting some benefit of bidoof movement options.

Spoiler: Just Bidou it!

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

En touched on some things I've neglected. I can't stress enough how important it is to consistently play stronger players, build your core fundamentals, specifically focus on your weaknesses, and make everything in your neutral matter if you're looking for pure improvement.

Buckling down on your mindset first and foremost matters most, and lately I've been working on fixing and de-toxifying my mindset of performance now vs. building over time and my fun with the game.

If you only want to be decent at the game, and are only playing enough to be decent, you will find that forwards progress will come a lot slower, and there will be people that are hungrier for the win than you and that are putting in more work (or have been around longer and have put in that work earlier on) that you'll not beat.

If you want to improve at the game, you have to be honest with yourself about the quantity and, more importantly, the quality of practice time you're putting into the game. I have had Smash 4 and I've been playing it since it released, but being truly honest with myself (and not gonna lie ), I didn't start playing seriously and going to locals until the beginning of March. So, to de-toxify my own mindset, I keep in mind that I've only been playing seriously for about a month and a half at this point, and I remember not to get ahead of myself lol.

---

For those of you that are practicing bidou, did you know that you can pseudo-bidou using tilt stick and an attack button set to a shoulder option? I myself am not investing in bidou or tilt stick bidou atm, since I have quite a few other elements of my gameplay that I'm focusing on, but if you're investing in bidou, you might find that that's worth investigating as a way of keeping the benefits of attack stick for aerials and tilts while still getting some benefit of bidoof movement options.

Spoiler: Just Bidou it!

Thanks on the tilt bidou info! I thought it was only specials until now. I'll let a few people know about it, I would look into it myself if I wasn't loving cstick special so much. On cstick special, I'm really digging the easy wavebounce DED so far and it's been working out pretty well, I'm finding more applications as I go. I used it a good handful of times as a mixup when playing Samfish so far (Villager main from CO, he's one of our best and I try to get regular wifi spar sessions with him) and was able to put it to good use most of the time.

I used it to punish a roll read to rack up damage and unstale some moves, I used it to space myself at the ledge for edgeguarding to bait his options, and I used it to throw a move into him and be able to avoid retaliation. I could swing twice and back off, or if I hit by then or felt like finishing, I'd go for swings 3 or 4.

It's hard to get used to, though. Throwing out random counters when I wanted to stick an aerial was bad, but not as bad as randomly wasting waft =( ah well, I have a while to adjust, so it's no big deal.

That Bidoof pic... GOD DAMMIT LOL. Every time I see the downstairs gym at work or clean it, the walls are the same color as the green screen Shia's in front of, so he pops into my head every time. Now that thing's gonna pop into my head....

 

[TheSpnBrm]

Good stuff, I believe Roy specifically can really push these technical things you're aspiring for. Do you still play online? I can do 3DS if it's the only option, I'm limited with a few things by the system but I can still do just about everything fundamentally.

I do, however I'm switching between 3DS and Wii U atm to practice for locals so my play is kinda weird because 3DS limits what I can do. I'm terrible at performing dash dancing and perfect pivots there but I play nothing but swordsmen so my fundamentals are at least decent. Send me a friend request and we can play sometime, I'm helping my friend get a Wii U so we can practice there too so when that happens I'll share the ID.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I do, However I'm switching between 3DS and Wii U atm to practice for locals so my play. I'm terrible at performing dash dancing and perfect pivots on the 3DS, but I play nothing but swordsmen so my fundamentals are at least decent. Send me a friend request and we can play sometime, I'm helping my friend get a Wii U so we can practice there too so when that happens I'll share the ID.

Sweet! NNID's MasonEliwood.

 

[TheSpnBrm]

Sweet! NNID's MasonEliwood.

It should be like 2ish weeks before he gets it believe but I'll keep this in mind when he has it.

Also here's a quick general tip for everyone while I remember, did you know you can cancel your dash with a quick crouch like in Melee/PM?
The timing only slightly varies depending the dash animations I believe but doing this lets you dash into any neutral option which will make your lives a lot easier when trying to take stocks.

Using also lets you approach with D Tilt which is pretty safe.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

It should be like 2ish weeks before he gets it believe but I'll keep this in mind when he has it.

Also here's a quick general tip for everyone while I remember, did you know you can cancel your dash with a quick crouch like in Melee/PM?
The timing only slightly varies depending the dash animations I believe but doing this lets you dash into any neutral option which will make your lives a lot easier when trying to take stocks.

Using also lets you approach with D Tilt which is pretty safe.

I wonder, how many frames does it take for the dash to end and for Roy to crouch and dtilt? Roy would be ducking during the dash and even more with the crouch, which is pretty neat.

We could compare the frames of that to run up -> shield -> drop shield -> dtilt, and see when to use each.

Shaya , I believe you said something a while back about Roy's ftilt tip being underrated. I would like to hear more, I mainly use it as a general spacing tool at lower percents and I'd like to know how I can get the most mileage out of the move.

 

[Valzy]

While I did have a lot of fun, I'm still feeling bummed out over being eliminated so early. I'm not salty or angry; just very disappointed. I am getting better, but I'm afraid I won't improve? Like, I'm afraid that Smash may not be my talent, and that's scary because I do want to be decent at it. Like I'm still having trouble reading and conditioning my opponents. I also have a hard time killing my opponents. It's like I sometimes wonder why I bother trying if I can't beat anyone at any of the tournaments I go to, not even anyone in friendlies. ._.

I used to play melee and brawl a ton and I never got good at it, but I always had a ton of fun, and that's what really mattered to me. I doubt I'll ever be able to play smash competitively, but I still have a blast playing it.

 

[Shaya]

Tipper Jab on block: -13 to -11
Tipper Dtilt on block: -9 to -8
Tipper Ftilt: -17 to -15

Not exactly defining the argument, but just a reference.

Basically, tipper ftilt like our dtilt, fair, bair, nair have 'standard' base knockback and angles on the tips. That is the sakurai/45 degree angle knockback. It's growth is kinda high so just like those moves (bar dtilt) will have a good point where they're very useful and then less so as they send too far*. But we still opt for those moves in use, potentially being unsafe with our jumps, when ftilt is there - one of our better ranged moves (we step forward) that is always safe on hit and well spaced is a struggle for most characters to punish.

Now we can use ftilt out of our dashes and perfect pivots (with tilt stick, perfect pivot forward into ftilt is reallllly good); so considering how we can use it combined with mobility and it's never worse than any of our other tipper options (it's good damage too, at 8%) and that we can use it on the ground, means to me that it's a lot more usable than we give it credit for.

When we're looking at jab as the anti-airish space coverage get away from me and it's tipper hit doesn't often provide the best of rewards, (4.8% with no follow ups unless it's running off a platform/ledge or they DI up) we have the option of a move that's more consistent, with more range, and will be applying more pressure on hit than tipper jab will a lot of the time.

So why not use it as such?

* scales less in knockback than our tipper nair, bair. Should be roughly the same knockback as tipper fair at every percent. Early percent it will be roughly the same as second hit of sweetspot nair.

 

[TheSpnBrm]

I wonder, how many frames does it take for the dash to end and for Roy to crouch and dtilt? Roy would be ducking during the dash and even more with the crouch, which is pretty neat.

We could compare the frames of that to run up -> shield -> drop shield -> dtilt, and see when to use each.

Shaya , I believe you said something a while back about Roy's ftilt tip being underrated. I would like to hear more, I mainly use it as a general spacing tool at lower percents and I'd like to know how I can get the most mileage out of the move.

Good stuff, I'm not sure how it compares to Dash shield but in using it myself for a bit It def comes out faster than the standard Dash attack which is a good start.

My guess on when to use each would be Dtilt for the overall safest option due to the shield push on it, Jab at middle ish percents with follows up to Nair or Fair, FTilt or UTilt at kill percents depending on stage position.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Tipper Jab on block: -13 to -11
Tipper Dtilt on block: -9 to -8
Tipper Ftilt: -17 to -15

Not exactly defining the argument, but just a reference.

Basically, tipper ftilt like our dtilt, fair, bair, nair have 'standard' base knockback and angles on the tips. That is the sakurai/45 degree angle knockback. It's growth is kinda high so just like those moves (bar dtilt) will have a good point where they're very useful and then less so as they send too far*. But we still opt for those moves in use, potentially being unsafe with our jumps, when ftilt is there - one of our better ranged moves (we step forward) that is always safe on hit and well spaced is a struggle for most characters to punish.

Now we can use ftilt out of our dashes and perfect pivots (with tilt stick, perfect pivot forward into ftilt is reallllly good); so considering how we can use it combined with mobility and it's never worse than any of our other tipper options (it's good damage too, at 8%) and that we can use it on the ground, means to me that it's a lot more usable than we give it credit for.

When we're looking at jab as the anti-airish space coverage get away from me and it's tipper hit doesn't often provide the best of rewards, (4.8% with no follow ups unless it's running off a platform/ledge or they DI up) we have the option of a move that's more consistent, with more range, and will be applying more pressure on hit than tipper jab will a lot of the time.

So why not use it as such?

* scales less in knockback than our tipper nair, bair. Should be roughly the same knockback as tipper fair at every percent. Early percent it will be roughly the same as second hit of sweetspot nair.

I was labbing ftilt earlier, and I was pretty impressed by how it has a second sweetspot that's pretty lenient, a small tip, and a tip that still deals a lot of damage. The arc is wider than I thought now that I'm looking at it again, and I like the angle it swats people at. I neglected how it's a move we can regularly pivot out of a dash, especially when it's quicker and less committal than dash attack and fsmash, and I'll try it more as a pp spacing tool. I think being able to use it out of a dash as a regular pivot when our dash attack and pivot fsmash have much worse frame data might be its strongest aspect.

The tip's knockback is great to chase an opponent with. I was never used to the idea of running after someone after tipped ftilt, but now I'm excited to try it.

For tipper jab follow-ups? I like tipper jab into dashing up to regrab at times, I usually jab twice and/or time+space my grab attempt so a combo break nair from someone like Luigi, Yoshi, or Corrin won't interrupt it. It's pretty neat that tip ftilt does nearly twice as much damage as tip jab, roughly twice on the second sweetspot, so it also opens situations where I can opt for better (plus guaranteed) damage output and more horizontal range at the same time with it.

We can think of ftilt here somewhat like Roy's PM ftilt, where it's a great spacing tool which meshes really well with Smash 4's movement options. It's a slash unlike in PM, but it still covers a lot of horizontal range while being one of his few safe, horizontal moves. This could give us more grounded control and swat an area safely.

I enjoy your insight into ftilt, and now it's giving me a lot of ideas on how to use the move in matches tomorrow when I've been neglecting it possibly the most out of Roy's kit. I'm glad I remembered randomly and asked.

Good stuff, I'm not sure how it compares to Dash shield but in using it myself for a bit It def comes out faster than the standard Dash attack which is a good start.

My guess on when to use each would be Dtilt for the overall safest option due to the shield push on it, Jab at middle ish percents with follows up to Nair or Fair, FTilt or UTilt at kill percents depending on stage position.

I didn't even think about dash attack. Considering that dtilt is much safer and less committal as a move to start, that already places it above some other dash options in different scenarios. Along with more ftilt out of a dash and in general, I'm going to try ducking during a dash to dtilt. I know Sethlon utilizes the long movement of one of Roy's legs when he walks and goes into a crouch and sorta slides a bit from it, I saw it a lot recently. It seems really good into Roy's grab or any of his pokes, especially since we can do anything out of a walk or crouch.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I think you guys might like to know that Ryo beat Fatality in a money match 3-1. He was using Roy.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I think you guys might like to know that Ryo beat Fatality in a money match 3-1. He was using Roy.

Yooooooooooo I think I remember you from the Ike boards in 2014 or early 2015. I think I encouraged you to use Ike for a local tournament before you got 1st out of 24th at it or something like that. I might have the wrong person, though.

I re-read and holy hell, Fatality. That's pretty good. Hopefully this means Ryo's Roy has been leveling up and that he'll pull him more. If you've been in touch with him, could you please let him know that we're interested in bringing him on board to the Roy discord? We have a lot we could help improve him on as Roy, and a lot we'd like to learn from him.