• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Social Roy Social - R O Y B O Y Z

RDR7

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
62
I wish his mobility could beat at least any defensive options and he had more than t-rex grab range to compliment it. Everything's still pretty unsafe and he can't really utilize that mobility like better characters.

I got merced by people running around and holding shield the whole match while I couldn't do anything to so much as pressure them any, it was annoying to fight. I got utilt shoryukened from 17 to 70/80 and died to rage shoryuken multiple times. People counted the utilts on one stock. 22 of them while I was smash DI'ing in a lot of directions and I watched myself fall out and get hit while in hitstun or landing again. I got utilted pretty hard by a bad Toon Link and they got me to kill percent on my second stock even though I won, it bothered me because he was pretty bad and had an FG playstyle. Bayonetta destroyed me and I couldn't do anything. I got utilt combo'd and edgeguarded at low percents when I choked on recovery to Mario. I struggled really hard against characters like Corrin and Cloud who have a lot of safe stuff and just weren't balanced as DLC swordfighters with Roy in mind, so he was left in the dust. I let down my partner in doubles, even if it was friendlies, because Roy didn't have the tools to handle a 2v1 vs. Corrin and Cloud, and just got grabbed and died.

I've been dedicated to competitive play and Roy for a while and I'm still getting poor results and making the character look worse. I feel like I struggle trying to win with my character, and that as a player I can't contribute here at all even when I try. I single out every single thing to improve on and work on it asap for hours, but when I so much as let a little of frustration out, people immediately say they'll do it with hard work and it creates more pressure. I get it, I'll never do it, but people are so quick to count me out as soon as I feel even a little frustration which hurts. Though they're not wrong to.

I feel like my colon's going to pop in neutral. I feel like my combo throws don't combo properly at all, people keep falling out of DED and punishing me or it stops linking after 2-3 hits, punish windows are so close and never go through, DI completely butchers some of his kill moves, Roy can't kill without committing really hard or reading, and so many things just don't work. I'm working so hard for any reward while my opponents get it so easily. Blazer and up smash's "linking" hitboxes are such a joke. His confirms are really difficult and unsafe.

I know I'll never win a tournament or do well otherwise, so I don't know why I'm thinking about it so much. All I can do is hope for results, hope for buffs, or never see anything. It's just a repeat of Melee where Roy's a worse version of Marth nobody wants to play and I don't want to go through it again, where I'm incapable yet again, but it is what it is. I just have to embrace and accept it so that the community goes easier on us, I guess. If people get negative enough about Roy, he'll more likely see the buffs he needs to succeed in competitive play. That's really the only thing I can hope for. That's why I just stopped caring, because he needs them.

Playing Roy in tournaments again made me realize how poorly he's designed for tournament play. Other characters have been balanced for tournament play for a while for some reason. It hurts knowing Roy might never get a DK/Ike/Mewtwo/Marthcina treatment, he's poorly designed and has no real strengths or good matchups while he struggles with so much and gets so little reward. I invest so much and try so hard, but it feels like I'm going nowhere and like I'm so limited and struggling hard.

I'll keep pushing the character, sure, but I'm ready to continue being 0-to-deathed, losing to dumb stuff in neutral I can't do anything about from so many characters, and getting clipped or destroyed even when I'm trying to be safe. I'm not going to lie to myself when playing Roy is depressingly difficult with a game community and ongoing development team who keep making it harder every time. Maybe he'll get results someday, but I don't know why I play if I know I don't have a chance at being that amazing player. Bang's been in Smash 4 for three months with Diddy and he's learned so many fundamentals I still struggle with. He's doing better against good players than I ever will. I'm not cut out for this game, my passion's useless and so is my favorite character.
Aye I feel you so hard dude. We play different characters but we see eye to eye. My character went from top tier to utterly horrible from Melee to Brawl and she hasn't been the same since. It was the hardest nerf in the series. From nerfed hitboxes, nerfed frame data, nerfed mobility, to damage nerfs, everything across the board was worse. So being the naive player I was back in 2012 I gave Puff a chance not knowing what a tier list is. Maining Puff in Brawl was an excruciating experience for me, but it helped me learn fundamentals, insane offstage play, and how to tank through a bad matchup. Getting bodied left and right, and having no motivation due to the lack of professional puff players with the exception of Dapuffster (who quit puff for mii brawler) was hard for me. I didn't win much but again, I learned a lot from that experience and eventually became a respected player in my region. However with Jigglypuff only being slightly buffed from Brawl, looking over some of her nerfed frame data and insanely questionable design choices infuriates me.

With everyone getting buffed and changed except Puff I don't see any reason as to why she isn't visible to the developers when her flaws can be easily fixed. My throw game is almost useless, I'm on my toes in some matchups even at 60 percent, my reward for punishing isn't good enough, my best OOS option isn't safe on hit until low midpercent (dash attack), rage benefits me the least and actually works against me more than it helps me, blast KOs off the top can make rest unsafe on hit and to add more salt in the wound rest doesn't kill early enough for that punishment to be anywhere near reasonable. I have a lot more gripes but these are only a few.

On top of this my character is ignored heavily by the devs never getting buffs, always talked down on in the competitive impressions thread or almost anywhere on smashboards, heavily underestimated, and I've even had shots fired at me for maining a "crappy character" instead of being like everyone else and maining Cloud/Bayonetta or just joining the top tier train. It hurts me on the inside really badly, but I manage to get results off of hard studying, ballsy decisions, and in the end blow some minds making people question their own opinion. So to me in my eyes anyone can do it, with the right mentality, enough confidence, and loyalty. I respect you for being persistent, constantly trying, constantly pushing it, and going into a bad matchup knowing how flawed your character is. That's how low tier heroes are born. I encourage you to keep pushing it with Roy, however if you switch to Diddy it's understandable. Just know either way I'll be rooting for you. Fight for our boy.
 

Serew

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
115
Location
Ze Nedderlends
Mason, this has been your first local tournament in a while right? You played lots of online and it's ALOT different. There's a big difference between online and local play. I think there's only one thing that's stopping you from getting better, and that's your current mindset. If you're gonna keep looking at what's bad in such a negative way, you're gonna blame too much on your character and not improve. You seem to focus alot on results and pushing Roy even though you think Roy is way too bad, and you (and everyone) still has a very long way to go. Never get ahead of yourself.

We're not the best character in the game, We're not the worst. If we get buffs, that's nice. If we don't get buffs, It's all okay with it.
Alot of the mistakes i make i feel like are my own, even though some other characters might get away with those. Maybe we need to read to get alot of kills, but then you just need to learn to read. Our read punishes are very strong and can lead to very early kills.
Our few confirms are just not as straightforward.
Besides, Roy is a good learning character IMO if you're not gonna get the end results you want with him.
 
Last edited:

JCav

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
1,217
Location
Michigan
I had a similar experience to that of Mason's this weekend. Drowned in pools after given the first seed was extremely disappointing. One of my set losses was to a ZSS. It was dead even up to game 3, and we were at Duck Hunt. Both of us around 70% and we were on the tree, I tried to drop through the platform because I knew he was looking to up-b with ZSS. I got hit by it and died off the top at 79%. He told me that he won because of cheese but I still had a chance to make it out of pools.

Next up I played a Mii Fighter, which I never have never fought before. We split the first two games and he switched to DK for game 3. Again last hit, last stock situation. I rolled from the ledge and died from an up-tilt. I was extremely salty after this set because I really felt like I should have won. I've lost to DK before and I really think that's a hard matchup for Roy. DK's range is really hard to deal with.

In addition to singles, I was drafted for a crew battle tournament. I'm at the beginning of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnu8fxPumFs&list=PLg44i0CClXG5fxSRc_wNQovYHxQ7aaUgX&index=3

This was disappointing because I nearly got 3 stocked by the same ROB player I played at my last tournament that I got 3rd at. I felt like the last set we played, I was a few hits away from things going my way and I got BODIED this time around. Next I had to play a Lucario player. I REALLY wanted to beat this kid because he called me out. He posted a video of me getting double 2 stocked in a money match to a Samus player (another matchup which I find extremely difficult). I only had one stock to his three and I wanted to take one before he took mine but I didn't.

I got 7th in doubles with my static partner who mains G&W. We played decently but lost to the teams who got 1st and 2nd. I still feel like we could have done better than this too. Check out some of our sets here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bysa3A85aMs&list=PLg44i0CClXG5fxSRc_wNQovYHxQ7aaUgX&index=13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVeehgB0cIc&list=PLg44i0CClXG5fxSRc_wNQovYHxQ7aaUgX&index=14

Overall, I feel like I didn't play my best. I definitely wasn't playing at the level I was when I got 3rd. Even though I don't like the DK matchup, I feel like its not unwinnable by any means. This tournament there weren't any matchups I didn't think that I couldn't win. One of the players that I beat at the last tournament got 3rd and my doubles partner got 7th, I feel like I'm closer to that level than where I placed.

Also, I was messing around with Marth yesterday and I couldn't believe how superior he feels to Roy. His tippers are so rewarding to land, they have so much knockback and his recovery is easily better.

I'm frustrated with my performance but I'm really trying to stay positive and just work on my weaknesses as a player. I still believe in Roy but I also realized that I still have a lot of improvement to make.
 

EnGarde

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
654
3DS FC
4914-3671-9440
Going to a smashfest today, looking to be a lot of fun. :)

As for the rest of the stuff, c'est la vie. That's life lol. I know I still have to put quite a bit more time into the game before I see results, and I know I'm not playing a top tier character, so I'm going to have to work extra hard for it. I'm fine with that.

---

Also, was pinteresting again, this time for general Fire Emblem stuff, thought I'd share some jokes images lol.

 

Lady Kuki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
490
Location
US
NNID
PetraRal01
3DS FC
4854-7185-6306
Hey guys! Let's stop focusing on buffs and all. It's something we can't directly control. I'm salty over Roy being inferior to Marth yet again as well, but that's just how it is. If you want to win tournaments as fast as possible, you can always pick a high or top tier. No one's stopping you. It's your decision.

Orrrr like I said: Make a video. Cover all of Roy's points and show your frustration. If we are getting more patches, the balance team will probably notice at one point and buff him... or not. It's better than not trying.

Moooving on, I drew Robot Roy today guys:

Lol JK it's Zero

I drew him in MS Paint with a mouse. Took me like four hours or so. Here's the Twitter for it if you want to share it: https://twitter.com/LadyKuki1/status/719671469903622144

He kept my mind off Roy's tier placement and all. I use him in MVC3 and I use him for laughs too. When I heard he was top tier, it made me feel better; IDK why. It made me want to look him up and learn more about Mega Man. If you're really bummed about Roy and all, it's best to just take a break and move on to something different. c:
 

Serew

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
115
Location
Ze Nedderlends
Worked alot on a Roy-Rosa MU Doc today, i will bring the results tomorrow. it needs a few finishing touches before fully done and it's late now :D
 

Airpoizon

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
91
NNID
(Private)
3DS FC
0946-2898-1267
Roy, I don't think he's high on low tier. He should be kept at mid for the time being. There is to much controversy over his moveset and abilities. We shouldn't judge Roy because no one plays him.

I also don't understand when people say Roy is bad for his recovery when ZSS and Ryu just shoot up there. Those two have no vertical movement, like at all.

(This doesn't mean their bad, just saying)

Then people say he's slow.
...
I'll let you think about that.
 

EnGarde

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
654
3DS FC
4914-3671-9440
They might be talking about his frame data, otherwise I dunno lol.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Roy most definitely is not slow. His air acceleration really does hurt his air speed though. Mewtwo suffers from the same issue.
 

Schnizzle Fits

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
71
Location
A Taco Stand
Ok so the thing about Zero is that he was just as broken in TvC, when he was announced I mentioned that if they didn't nerf his moveset he'd be top tier in MvC3 then I found out that MvC3 Zero operated 90% like TvC Zero. Zero was meant to be top tier and they knew it I mean look at Frank West, they changed everything about him because he sucked.
 

ArikadoSD

the cream of the crop
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
1,466
Location
Dublin
NNID
ArikadoSD
3DS FC
0748-2790-0166
it's only canon that zero is top tier/op..

he's supposed to be that way in the mega man series lmao
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
1,296
I've been reflecting a lot on my pessimism and just generally feeling overwhelmed lately.

I'm playing for popularity (even if it's for the sole intent of my character, it's still trying to get my name out there via my performances) and feeling concerned on that, so it creates this pressure that hinders me both in bracket and in the long run. It takes a toll mentally, and I'm not looking at these brackets as stepping stones and learning experiences as much.

I'm looking at them as end-all experiences where I have to catch up to VoiD, Ryo, Sethlon, etc. right away and make everyone aware of what my character can do by performing well or else I've failed. My pride and playing Roy almost every day for 9-10 months while some good player could just pocket Roy with almost no investment or some new blood could surpass me easily really just tears at my brain and makes me feel useless.

I know comparing ourselves to others really hurts artists in different forms of art, so I should look at it the same way as a competitor. Some of us aren't meant to amount to anything truly successful in things we're passionate about (it's happened to me in particular a lot), some people who seem that way keep drilling until it hits (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKZmZfiIsto&t=8m55s, M2K needed years and thousands of hours to start doing well), and some of us are naturals who just understand what's needed.

These amazing players I feel inferior to have built the fundamentals they need to succeed no matter what they do, and they're putting in the same (if not more) time as me or have put in the time long, long ago. Some are just naturals or have found the secrets to how to maximize time spent. If I keep comparing myself, I'll never build myself up properly. Results will come naturally with time and fundamentals, and even if they don't, the rest of the ride is worth it. I focus too much on one or two things and let them drag my mental state down. I need to have some fun and loosen the grip a bit. If I focus so much on the wrong things, then the chance of me building myself up decreases. I need to remember that it takes years, it takes continued hard work rather than 3-6 month bursts, and it takes patience.

RDR7 RDR7 , I don't intend to switch to Diddy, since he's never been my character and I don't think I could do well with anyone besides Roy. However, there's a Diddy in Colorado who's only been playing Smash Bros. for 3 months named BANG and making many upsets happen, and I doubted him at first after hearing about him. That's what I meant when I talked about Diddy. I figured BANG was just a gimmick, that he was overhyped, yada yada, but I sat down to play him in friendlies and I was amazed. His fundamentals, option coverage, reaction time, and ability to make decisions were above my own and terrifying to play against. I naturally felt extremely envious, like my work for the game was all for nothing. I've been playing in tournaments and practicing a lot for this game ever since I was able to watch tournaments and streams of Japanese 3DS copies, and I played Brawl/Melee/PM 2.1 to the end of 3.0 competitively, so I had that entitled veteran feeling that cut at my pride more. I watched the first Shockwave the day the YouTube uploads went up. Little Mac, Villager, and Sheik being some of the first characters to make WF/LF/GF was a pretty cool experience.

My biggest weakness (maybe my biggest, I have a lot of big weaknesses as a person) is envy. I get really envious when I work hard on something only for others to do better, especially when I feel like I'm working harder. It's happened with programming, it's happened with Spanish, it's happened with Smash, it's happened in my family a LOT, it's happened with friendships, and it's happened with relationships over and over in hard-hitting ways that make it hard for me to trust anyone or feel like I have any future in them. I get two-timed or left for better guys (in two cases, girls) no matter how much things look up and it just eats at me over time. I can never avoid it and I feel more useless each time. The future looks brighter each time, and I get closer, but the same thing happens. I'm still not over something from January and might not be for a long time. It's this empty feeling in my core (probably my chest lolol) that just sucks. Knowing that I wasn't good enough but somebody else who didn't work as hard is, well. It's happened a lot, and I hate the feeling. It's part of what makes me think living isn't worth it now and then, just on principle of how the world works and how it repeats so easily whenever I finally feel secure again.

Getting that out helped me relieve a bit on my mind, don't mind it too much.

I just need to keep building, having fun, putting in time, and not worry so much. The future is uncertain and I have to invest in what could give me the most while putting faith in, rather than questioning like 20 paths at once and the immediate. I will keep investing in Roy and hopefully I can make you proud too.





Thank you Lady Kuki Lady Kuki for helping pick me back up and checking to make sure if I really felt like that. I've been rude to you time and time again as recent as a few weeks back and acting in ways that might distance or make you feel alienated from the community. You don't deserve that and I feel terrible thinking on what else could have happened, especially since these are all meant to be safe spaces that don't need the convicting I've done. We're all here for the same reasons. I do look up to you and think you're pretty cool, I'm just, well, not an exemplary being of non-confusing communication. That sentence might be a good example of how :p I'm really happy to see you speak with a lot of strength and conviction lately, it inspires me when I've been trying to put up a facade for the longest time out of desperation while losing steam. I desperately want my character to be a threat competitively, and if I didn't throw everything I had into making myself or others believe in any scrap of potential, I'd fail. I got on peoples cases and threw everything I had into it.

When that facade fell apart, it polarized. I figured that if I just gave up, buffs would be more likely and it'd be much easier to avoid getting too passionate. People would respect me more, and outsiders would leave me alone. I mean, is it worth it? I can improve myself without doing that, which took until yesterday/today to realize. I don't know if Roy has competitive potential or not as he stands, but I do cool things with him and surprise people, and I have a lot of fun. It's not fair to lean towards the negative automatically just because I see core issues that I haven't optimized and just gave up on.

All of my losses this weekend can be attributed to my weaknesses and being outplayed, this is a stepping stone where I know what I need to work on.

I read your post before going to bed last night, and I thought about it that night and at work a lot. I was ready to take a break, but with my TV now next to my desktop and no more gamepad smash, I felt like sitting back and playing some FG before bed. I just messed around with Roy, did some really cool things I saved replays of, and occasionally picked someone like Robin or Falcon to mess around with. I did this for a few hours, off of some gut instinct despite knowing I'd lose hardcore sleep for the first time in a really long time. I slept for four hours, but it was worth following. I felt like I gained or learned something from that, and I messed around on FG today while sleep deprived with work fatigue. Work didn't really take a hit at all from a lack of sleep, I did fine. I'm just not gonna make this a habit. That messing around is helping me lean towards finding balance in things again and just putting my mind back in gear. It feels like my mind's a lot more clear now. I'll have to see if I missed anything later and finish this message, I know I had something deeper or cooler to say. Something with superpowers. Maybe. Maaaaaybe. I have doubts.








I wish I could proofread and write more, I'm having a lot of trouble completing proper sentences and proofreading. It's almost 2AM, I've been up since 7AM with 4 hours of sleep after a long trip. A lot feels abrupt or unrevised, but I'm posting anyways
> : )) it'll give people time to look at this first before I catch up properly.

I feel like I'm gonna topple, and I can't read anything properly, so zzzzzzz I'll check back tomorrow and see what I missed.

I'll probably regret sentence structuring and some of how I used English in the morning, not really messages themselves besides rambling in a more chaotic manner than usual while not getting to everything yet.
 
Last edited:

JCav

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
1,217
Location
Michigan
Hey guys! Let's stop focusing on buffs and all. It's something we can't directly control. I'm salty over Roy being inferior to Marth yet again as well, but that's just how it is. If you want to win tournaments as fast as possible, you can always pick a high or top tier. No one's stopping you. It's your decision.

Orrrr like I said: Make a video. Cover all of Roy's points and show your frustration. If we are getting more patches, the balance team will probably notice at one point and buff him... or not. It's better than not trying.

Moooving on, I drew Robot Roy today guys:

Lol JK it's Zero

I drew him in MS Paint with a mouse. Took me like four hours or so. Here's the Twitter for it if you want to share it: https://twitter.com/LadyKuki1/status/719671469903622144

He kept my mind off Roy's tier placement and all. I use him in MVC3 and I use him for laughs too. When I heard he was top tier, it made me feel better; IDK why. It made me want to look him up and learn more about Mega Man. If you're really bummed about Roy and all, it's best to just take a break and move on to something different. c:
I know my post could have been interpreted as being negative towards Roy. I was pretty disappointed after my performance this weekend and I feel like I understand where dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523 dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523 is coming from, a lot of time invested for results that feel like you under performed. However, I think it's a positive if we can compare our tournament experiences because I think we all go through similar things like dealing with tournament nerves. We're all here to push Roy to the limits that we believe he has, I tell everyone that I play that I think Roy is better than nearly everyone thinks. It's discouraging at first, but Mason seems focused, and I'm over my bad performance and determined myself.


Also, I have some thoughts on DED that I'll post later, I have to do school stuff for a little while. :psycho:
 

Lady Kuki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
490
Location
US
NNID
PetraRal01
3DS FC
4854-7185-6306
I've been reflecting a lot on my pessimism and just generally feeling overwhelmed lately.

I'm playing for popularity (even if it's for the sole intent of my character, it's still trying to get my name out there via my performances) and feeling concerned on that, so it creates this pressure that hinders me both in bracket and in the long run. It takes a toll mentally, and I'm not looking at these brackets as stepping stones and learning experiences as much.

I'm looking at them as end-all experiences where I have to catch up to VoiD, Ryo, Sethlon, etc. right away and make everyone aware of what my character can do by performing well or else I've failed. My pride and playing Roy almost every day for 9-10 months while some good player could just pocket Roy with almost no investment or some new blood could surpass me easily really just tears at my brain and makes me feel useless.

I know comparing ourselves to others really hurts artists in different forms of art, so I should look at it the same way as a competitor. Some of us aren't meant to amount to anything truly successful in things we're passionate about (it's happened to me in particular a lot), some people who seem that way keep drilling until it hits (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKZmZfiIsto&t=8m55s, M2K needed years and thousands of hours to start doing well), and some of us are naturals who just understand what's needed.

These amazing players I feel inferior to have built the fundamentals they need to succeed no matter what they do, and they're putting in the same (if not more) time as me or have put in the time long, long ago. Some are just naturals or have found the secrets to how to maximize time spent. If I keep comparing myself, I'll never build myself up properly. Results will come naturally with time and fundamentals, and even if they don't, the rest of the ride is worth it. I focus too much on one or two things and let them drag my mental state down. I need to have some fun and loosen the grip a bit. If I focus so much on the wrong things, then the chance of me building myself up decreases. I need to remember that it takes years, it takes continued hard work rather than 3-6 month bursts, and it takes patience.

RDR7 RDR7 , I don't intend to switch to Diddy, since he's never been my character and I don't think I could do well with anyone besides Roy. However, there's a Diddy in Colorado who's only been playing Smash Bros. for 3 months named BANG and making many upsets happen, and I doubted him at first after hearing about him. That's what I meant when I talked about Diddy. I figured BANG was just a gimmick, that he was overhyped, yada yada, but I sat down to play him in friendlies and I was amazed. His fundamentals, option coverage, reaction time, and ability to make decisions were above my own and terrifying to play against. I naturally felt extremely envious, like my work for the game was all for nothing. I've been playing in tournaments and practicing a lot for this game ever since I was able to watch tournaments and streams of Japanese 3DS copies, and I played Brawl/Melee/PM 2.1 to the end of 3.0 competitively, so I had that entitled veteran feeling that cut at my pride more. I watched the first Shockwave the day the YouTube uploads went up. Little Mac, Villager, and Sheik being some of the first characters to make WF/LF/GF was a pretty cool experience.

My biggest weakness (maybe my biggest, I have a lot of big weaknesses as a person) is envy. I get really envious when I work hard on something only for others to do better, especially when I feel like I'm working harder. It's happened with programming, it's happened with Spanish, it's happened with Smash, it's happened in my family a LOT, it's happened with friendships, and it's happened with relationships over and over in hard-hitting ways that make it hard for me to trust anyone or feel like I have any future in them. I get two-timed or left for better guys (in two cases, girls) no matter how much things look up and it just eats at me over time. I can never avoid it and I feel more useless each time. The future looks brighter each time, and I get closer, but the same thing happens. I'm still not over something from January and might not be for a long time. It's this empty feeling in my core (probably my chest lolol) that just sucks. Knowing that I wasn't good enough but somebody else who didn't work as hard is, well. It's happened a lot, and I hate the feeling. It's part of what makes me think living isn't worth it now and then, just on principle of how the world works and how it repeats so easily whenever I finally feel secure again.

Getting that out helped me relieve a bit on my mind, don't mind it too much.

I just need to keep building, having fun, putting in time, and not worry so much. The future is uncertain and I have to invest in what could give me the most while putting faith in, rather than questioning like 20 paths at once and the immediate. I will keep investing in Roy and hopefully I can make you proud too.





Thank you Lady Kuki Lady Kuki for helping pick me back up and checking to make sure if I really felt like that. I've been rude to you time and time again as recent as a few weeks back and acting in ways that might distance or make you feel alienated from the community. You don't deserve that and I feel terrible thinking on what else could have happened, especially since these are all meant to be safe spaces that don't need the convicting I've done. We're all here for the same reasons. I do look up to you and think you're pretty cool, I'm just, well, not an exemplary being of non-confusing communication. That sentence might be a good example of how :p I'm really happy to see you speak with a lot of strength and conviction lately, it inspires me when I've been trying to put up a facade for the longest time out of desperation while losing steam. I desperately want my character to be a threat competitively, and if I didn't throw everything I had into making myself or others believe in any scrap of potential, I'd fail. I got on peoples cases and threw everything I had into it.

When that facade fell apart, it polarized. I figured that if I just gave up, buffs would be more likely and it'd be much easier to avoid getting too passionate. People would respect me more, and outsiders would leave me alone. I mean, is it worth it? I can improve myself without doing that, which took until yesterday/today to realize. I don't know if Roy has competitive potential or not as he stands, but I do cool things with him and surprise people, and I have a lot of fun. It's not fair to lean towards the negative automatically just because I see core issues that I haven't optimized and just gave up on.

All of my losses this weekend can be attributed to my weaknesses and being outplayed, this is a stepping stone where I know what I need to work on.

I read your post before going to bed last night, and I thought about it that night and at work a lot. I was ready to take a break, but with my TV now next to my desktop and no more gamepad smash, I felt like sitting back and playing some FG before bed. I just messed around with Roy, did some really cool things I saved replays of, and occasionally picked someone like Robin or Falcon to mess around with. I did this for a few hours, off of some gut instinct despite knowing I'd lose hardcore sleep for the first time in a really long time. I slept for four hours, but it was worth following. I felt like I gained or learned something from that, and I messed around on FG today while sleep deprived with work fatigue. Work didn't really take a hit at all from a lack of sleep, I did fine. I'm just not gonna make this a habit. That messing around is helping me lean towards finding balance in things again and just putting my mind back in gear. It feels like my mind's a lot more clear now. I'll have to see if I missed anything later and finish this message, I know I had something deeper or cooler to say. Something with superpowers. Maybe. Maaaaaybe. I have doubts.








I wish I could proofread and write more, I'm having a lot of trouble completing proper sentences and proofreading. It's almost 2AM, I've been up since 7AM with 4 hours of sleep after a long trip. A lot feels abrupt or unrevised, but I'm posting anyways
> : )) it'll give people time to look at this first before I catch up properly.

I feel like I'm gonna topple, and I can't read anything properly, so zzzzzzz I'll check back tomorrow and see what I missed.

I'll probably regret sentence structuring and some of how I used English in the morning, not really messages themselves besides rambling in a more chaotic manner than usual while not getting to everything yet.
Duuuude it's okay. I never thought you were being rude to me at all. You just had me worried. You're a passionate guy and to see you sink so low kinda bothers me. That, and I've really had the drive to work on Roy lately, so to see comments about people doubting Roy gets me down. I want to look past his weaknesses and lack of buffs so that I may become really good with him.

I know how you feel with the whole talent thing. I'm an artist. I'm in my last year of high school. It's rare, but occasionally I'd see people on the internet who would be drawing at my level at a very young age no less! I'd start getting depressed and I'd start to compare myself to that person. "Oh, only if I did X at this age would I have been a better artist!" Ohhh they're so lucky to be drawing so well at that age! They must have a bright future ahead of them. Why am I even bothering with art if I'm X years old and I can't draw as well?"

But you know what Smash has taught me? It has taught me not to care.

I go to tournaments pretty much every Saturday now. There's this young Sonic main I know. He's reaaally talented. I don't exactly know HOW old he is, but he is probably no older than sixteen. I'm not an adult yet, but I'm very close to being one; I'm just a few years off. Despite him being so talented at Smash at such a young age, I didn't care. Wanna know why? I don't know what it took for him to get there. He must have sacrificed something to get to the level he was at. I'm here to play Smash in order to have fun. I will improve in time. So what if there are a couple of younger people who are more talented than I? As long as I work hard, I will get to the level I will want to get. Talent is a good thing to have, but if you lack the will to improve, your talent will may as well be useless.

That Sonic main isn't even the only talented kid I know. There's a Bowser main on our PR list who's fifteen. I won't even stop there; ZeRo got really good at Smash at a young age, I can imagine, and like Nairo is only nineteen years old. When I saw that there were many, many young and talented Smashers in my area, I became desensitized. I stopped looking at their ages and I began to look more at their skill. As you get older, people won't give a darn about what you could do at your age; people will look at what you can do NOW and will judge you from there. Don't think people will invalidate your skill just because it took you X amount of time to get to that level. If a person invalidates your skill because of that, then it's best just to ignore them; they're few in number anyway.

Also Mason, do keep in mind that Roy probably isn't top or high tier; he's probably mid at best. Due to him not having nearly as many options available, it will be harder to be consistent with him. He's not like Sheik or ZSS where he has several answers to several problems. He's pretty much an honest character. By nature it will be harder to be successful with Roy than like say, Mewtwo or Meta Knight. I mean that's what we've signed up for! If you don't feel like you have the drive to be successful with Roy, you can always try a different character like I've said. Just because you can't do extremely well with Roy in an X amount of time, doesn't mean you can't do well with him at all, or that you can't get good with any other character in the game.

You do you. Don't compare yourself to VoiD or Ryo; they're not just talented with Roy, they're talented with many other characters due to their strong fundamentals. When I lose in tournaments, I get happy, especially when I ask a top player to help watch the match for me. I get happy because I can spot out some of the flaws in my play and try to get rid of them. I used to roll a lot, but now I don't roll anymore. I used to struggle in neutral, now I've gotten much better at neutral. Now at this point, I have to worry about my landing options as well as my spacing. Again, Roy isn't as "blessed" as others when it comes to his kit; he has to work harder when it comes to things such as landing and spacing and I'm okay with that. I like Roy a lot in this game. I would use a few of the other characters I like in this game, but my goal is to become good with Roy. If I were to play another character, it would hinder my process to get good with him, you know? I'm kinda playing to get fame too, although I will mostly keep Smash as a hobby. I'm not playing it for money really; I just wanna give hope to those who are maining "low tiers" as well as girls who want to get into the Smash community.

I'm glad you're starting to feel better, bro. With enough drive, almost anything is possible. I think I'm talented to a degree, but my drive is much stronger than my talent. Because of this, I can get to places I wouldn't even imagine.

Ok so the thing about Zero is that he was just as broken in TvC, when he was announced I mentioned that if they didn't nerf his moveset he'd be top tier in MvC3 then I found out that MvC3 Zero operated 90% like TvC Zero. Zero was meant to be top tier and they knew it I mean look at Frank West, they changed everything about him because he sucked.
it's only canon that zero is top tier/op..

he's supposed to be that way in the mega man series lmao
Oh man, yeah. I've heard that MVC3 isn't the only game where he is absurdly powerful. I'm not surprised by this at all; I read about him on the Mega Man Wikia, and it states that his long combos is apart of his fighting style as well as his personality; he's ruthless when it comes to fighting.

I've noticed that I tend to like swordsman characters, especially if they're a glass cannon. I also like characters who are speedy and hit hard. Apparently Zero's no different. I heard in MVC3, he suffers from fighting zoners, just like Roy haha!

I do wonder what it would be like for Zero to be in Smash. Long combos are a canon thing for him apparently. I hope that if they ever do decide to put him in Smash Bros, they won't make him a Bayo 2.0. I'd hate to be treated with disgust just because I play a "broken" character. I only pick top tiers if the top tier just so happens to be a character I like. I usually just latch on to low or mid tier characters other wise. I'd kinda know how the Bayonetta mains would feel if Zero came into Smash with a lot of crazy moves, lol. I can already kind of feel that when looking at some of the comments in Zero MVC3 vids.

Speaking of which, I think I now know why ZeRo's the best Smash 4 player now. ;)

I also do notice that I like zoning characters. I don't play Mega Man seriously in Smash anymore, but I did love his projectile barriers and his ability to stop a character in their tracks. I also played Villager and Ness as well as the post patch Mewtwo. It appears that I favor either glass cannon swordies or zoning characters in fighting games. It's mostly glass cannon swordies that I like though.

Edit: Found more things that make Zero similar to Roy; he prefers close combat and is more difficult to use. If any of you MMX fans know any better though, feel free to correct me on this, lol.
 
Last edited:

Sethlon

Smash Champion
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 20, 2004
Messages
2,551
Location
Dallas, Texas
Ok so the thing about Zero is that he was just as broken in TvC, when he was announced I mentioned that if they didn't nerf his moveset he'd be top tier in MvC3 then I found out that MvC3 Zero operated 90% like TvC Zero.
And then they buffed him in Ultimate, after nerfing all of the other top tiers from Vanilla. SMH...
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
27,654
Location
/人◕‿‿◕人\ FABULOUS Max!
NNID
ShayaJP
I feel like my Roy's leveled up so much having an understanding of controlling his aerial mobility in neutral better.

Also have been combining my c-stick nair usage (kinda essential for Cloud, makes ff nair easier on ZSS so that's my origin) with dash in retreating aerials to do ff single hits of nair1 as fast as possible.
Roy's SHFF is 20 frames, so doing retreating shff nair1 ideally is a 24 frame start up action with 11 frames cool down. You can somewhat reactively nair on the rise of your jump if you see someone moving in immediately. At the same time you can choose just to land, slight backwards (or forwards) and abuse your initially really good walk speed and do various other things. Retreating jump and fast falling into a dash forward is clean and crisp :O

For his total air time, roy covers a lot of space in a jump. "Abusing" this has been my focus as of late~

Although the engine mechanics and literary numbers on some things may not be completely congruent to how he ideally plays, I think I now have a pretty solid understanding of how Roy works.

As an aside, tipper jab someone near the ledge or platforms into run off aerials? Perhaps better for it than down tilt?
Although down tilt has less cool down than jab, as the tipper jab is hitting up higher off the ground and has a higher knockback angle (38 to dtilt 30) they're going to be closer to you from burst horizontal movement then from down tilt.

And as I've been focusing a lot more on movement, and thinking how a lot of Roy's things are setting up tech chases, that maximising coverage of multiple options from hitting people into the ground should be a heavy future focus.

Also tipper ftilt is probably a lot more usable than we give it credit for.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
1,296
Duuuude it's okay. I never thought you were being rude to me at all. You just had me worried. You're a passionate guy and to see you sink so low kinda bothers me. That, and I've really had the drive to work on Roy lately, so to see comments about people doubting Roy gets me down. I want to look past his weaknesses and lack of buffs so that I may become really good with him.

I know how you feel with the whole talent thing. I'm an artist. I'm in my last year of high school. It's rare, but occasionally I'd see people on the internet who would be drawing at my level at a very young age no less! I'd start getting depressed and I'd start to compare myself to that person. "Oh, only if I did X at this age would I have been a better artist!" Ohhh they're so lucky to be drawing so well at that age! They must have a bright future ahead of them. Why am I even bothering with art if I'm X years old and I can't draw as well?"

But you know what Smash has taught me? It has taught me not to care.

I go to tournaments pretty much every Saturday now. There's this young Sonic main I know. He's reaaally talented. I don't exactly know HOW old he is, but he is probably no older than sixteen. I'm not an adult yet, but I'm very close to being one; I'm just a few years off. Despite him being so talented at Smash at such a young age, I didn't care. Wanna know why? I don't know what it took for him to get there. He must have sacrificed something to get to the level he was at. I'm here to play Smash in order to have fun. I will improve in time. So what if there are a couple of younger people who are more talented than I? As long as I work hard, I will get to the level I will want to get. Talent is a good thing to have, but if you lack the will to improve, your talent will may as well be useless.

That Sonic main isn't even the only talented kid I know. There's a Bowser main on our PR list who's fifteen. I won't even stop there; ZeRo got really good at Smash at a young age, I can imagine, and like Nairo is only nineteen years old. When I saw that there were many, many young and talented Smashers in my area, I became desensitized. I stopped looking at their ages and I began to look more at their skill. As you get older, people won't give a darn about what you could do at your age; people will look at what you can do NOW and will judge you from there. Don't think people will invalidate your skill just because it took you X amount of time to get to that level. If a person invalidates your skill because of that, then it's best just to ignore them; they're few in number anyway.

Also Mason, do keep in mind that Roy probably isn't top or high tier; he's probably mid at best. Due to him not having nearly as many options available, it will be harder to be consistent with him. He's not like Sheik or ZSS where he has several answers to several problems. He's pretty much an honest character. By nature it will be harder to be successful with Roy than like say, Mewtwo or Meta Knight. I mean that's what we've signed up for! If you don't feel like you have the drive to be successful with Roy, you can always try a different character like I've said. Just because you can't do extremely well with Roy in an X amount of time, doesn't mean you can't do well with him at all, or that you can't get good with any other character in the game.

You do you. Don't compare yourself to VoiD or Ryo; they're not just talented with Roy, they're talented with many other characters due to their strong fundamentals. When I lose in tournaments, I get happy, especially when I ask a top player to help watch the match for me. I get happy because I can spot out some of the flaws in my play and try to get rid of them. I used to roll a lot, but now I don't roll anymore. I used to struggle in neutral, now I've gotten much better at neutral. Now at this point, I have to worry about my landing options as well as my spacing. Again, Roy isn't as "blessed" as others when it comes to his kit; he has to work harder when it comes to things such as landing and spacing and I'm okay with that. I like Roy a lot in this game. I would use a few of the other characters I like in this game, but my goal is to become good with Roy. If I were to play another character, it would hinder my process to get good with him, you know? I'm kinda playing to get fame too, although I will mostly keep Smash as a hobby. I'm not playing it for money really; I just wanna give hope to those who are maining "low tiers" as well as girls who want to get into the Smash community.

I'm glad you're starting to feel better, bro. With enough drive, almost anything is possible. I think I'm talented to a degree, but my drive is much stronger than my talent. Because of this, I can get to places I wouldn't even imagine.



Oh man, yeah. I've heard that MVC3 isn't the only game where he is absurdly powerful. I'm not surprised by this at all; I read about him on the Mega Man Wikia, and it states that his long combos is apart of his fighting style as well as his personality; he's ruthless when it comes to fighting.

I've noticed that I tend to like swordsman characters, especially if they're a glass cannon. I also like characters who are speedy and hit hard. Apparently Zero's no different. I heard in MVC3, he suffers from fighting zoners, just like Roy haha!

I do wonder what it would be like for Zero to be in Smash. Long combos are a canon thing for him apparently. I hope that if they ever do decide to put him in Smash Bros, they won't make him a Bayo 2.0. I'd hate to be treated with disgust just because I play a "broken" character. I only pick top tiers if the top tier just so happens to be a character I like. I usually just latch on to low or mid tier characters other wise. I'd kinda know how the Bayonetta mains would feel if Zero came into Smash with a lot of crazy moves, lol. I can already kind of feel that when looking at some of the comments in Zero MVC3 vids.

Speaking of which, I think I now know why ZeRo's the best Smash 4 player now. ;)

I also do notice that I like zoning characters. I don't play Mega Man seriously in Smash anymore, but I did love his projectile barriers and his ability to stop a character in their tracks. I also played Villager and Ness as well as the post patch Mewtwo. It appears that I favor either glass cannon swordies or zoning characters in fighting games. It's mostly glass cannon swordies that I like though.

Edit: Found more things that make Zero similar to Roy; he prefers close combat and is more difficult to use. If any of you MMX fans know any better though, feel free to correct me on this, lol.
I want more women in the Smash community. It's impressive that Smash covers so many barriers, the only major one I can think of missing is gender. We have players from the mountains, the rich neighborhoods, the Bronx, the Thomsalands, and a lot of average joe areas. We have white people, black people, hispanic people, asian people, and just people from all over the world at any given event. Smashfest is pretty much a term equivalent to sausagefest, and I want to see that change someday just because of one observation a buddy made when he first got into Smash on how he'd like to see more women. It really hit to hear from a perspective of someone who is new to the scene.

If we reached out more to women who might be interested, I think it'd go a long way.

We need to encourage hygiene for players as well, it's not hard to take a 5-10 minute shower, brush teeth, and throw on deodorant before an event. Nobody should smell like butt, or some weird cheese, and I'm going to stop there because I feel a bit of nausea from remembering smells. It goes both ways, nobody should smell like they spilled a bottle of Axe or perfume on themselves.

I also knew a few female smashers who had to deal with a lot of thirsty guys in the scene, players just need to keep it in their pants and remember that people aren't there to date or find a boyfriend.

I dated a female smasher online for a few months this winter (hey don't look at my post that way, I'm no hypocrite at this very moment in time, she approached me initially like that >:o), and it was funny and weird seeing the attention she'd get. It didn't make me feel envy, it was unrelated things outside of that she which caused that.

Back to the guys, I would laugh or cringe a lot at their comments. They would approach in creepy manners that came off strong, and gave her a lot of special treatment for being female. They would say the corniest or straightforward things that were just.... UGHSHFSHFSFHSFK WHOA BUDDY. People would buy her things and hope to get their e-***** sucked, she was fairly popular. She gets white knighted a lot, and a lot of her personality revolves around publicity. If she complains about something, people will mindlessly join in to try and get the attention they want from a girl. She would use this to validate and justify a lot of her actions, and if I said something to challenge her behavior or some red flag of hers to try and work around it, she'd just run to one of her close guy friends and use them as a diary and act.... weird, towards them. In ways that made me REALLY uncomfortable. Let's just say putting up with this longer than I should, well, that's something better for an inbox or private conversation. It damaged me.

Basically, we need to welcome female Smashers, but not approach them like they need a boyfriend or be nice to them only for ulterior motivates. We need to treat them as equals without making them feel differently for their gender, or else we'll drive them off or give them things that they can build unhealthy mechanisms from. I would be down to work on ways to introduce women to the scene, and ways to show men how to treat women in the scene properly, if it's a project any of us could tackle.

Have you ever been treated in notably different ways for gender? If it's a topic that makes you uncomfortable, I don't want to pressure you into answering.









I have to go soon, but I want to know everyone's thoughts on this matchup chart:


It's contrary to some of my previous thoughts, but I sat down a lot and thought about it. It's ultimately a rough draft and something I want to collect more ideas for.
 

The Merc

Hyrule's "Light"
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
5,186
Location
Hyrule
Duuuude it's okay. I never thought you were being rude to me at all. You just had me worried. You're a passionate guy and to see you sink so low kinda bothers me. That, and I've really had the drive to work on Roy lately, so to see comments about people doubting Roy gets me down. I want to look past his weaknesses and lack of buffs so that I may become really good with him.

I know how you feel with the whole talent thing. I'm an artist. I'm in my last year of high school. It's rare, but occasionally I'd see people on the internet who would be drawing at my level at a very young age no less! I'd start getting depressed and I'd start to compare myself to that person. "Oh, only if I did X at this age would I have been a better artist!" Ohhh they're so lucky to be drawing so well at that age! They must have a bright future ahead of them. Why am I even bothering with art if I'm X years old and I can't draw as well?"

But you know what Smash has taught me? It has taught me not to care.

I go to tournaments pretty much every Saturday now. There's this young Sonic main I know. He's reaaally talented. I don't exactly know HOW old he is, but he is probably no older than sixteen. I'm not an adult yet, but I'm very close to being one; I'm just a few years off. Despite him being so talented at Smash at such a young age, I didn't care. Wanna know why? I don't know what it took for him to get there. He must have sacrificed something to get to the level he was at. I'm here to play Smash in order to have fun. I will improve in time. So what if there are a couple of younger people who are more talented than I? As long as I work hard, I will get to the level I will want to get. Talent is a good thing to have, but if you lack the will to improve, your talent will may as well be useless.

That Sonic main isn't even the only talented kid I know. There's a Bowser main on our PR list who's fifteen. I won't even stop there; ZeRo got really good at Smash at a young age, I can imagine, and like Nairo is only nineteen years old. When I saw that there were many, many young and talented Smashers in my area, I became desensitized. I stopped looking at their ages and I began to look more at their skill. As you get older, people won't give a darn about what you could do at your age; people will look at what you can do NOW and will judge you from there. Don't think people will invalidate your skill just because it took you X amount of time to get to that level. If a person invalidates your skill because of that, then it's best just to ignore them; they're few in number anyway.

Also Mason, do keep in mind that Roy probably isn't top or high tier; he's probably mid at best. Due to him not having nearly as many options available, it will be harder to be consistent with him. He's not like Sheik or ZSS where he has several answers to several problems. He's pretty much an honest character. By nature it will be harder to be successful with Roy than like say, Mewtwo or Meta Knight. I mean that's what we've signed up for! If you don't feel like you have the drive to be successful with Roy, you can always try a different character like I've said. Just because you can't do extremely well with Roy in an X amount of time, doesn't mean you can't do well with him at all, or that you can't get good with any other character in the game.

You do you. Don't compare yourself to VoiD or Ryo; they're not just talented with Roy, they're talented with many other characters due to their strong fundamentals. When I lose in tournaments, I get happy, especially when I ask a top player to help watch the match for me. I get happy because I can spot out some of the flaws in my play and try to get rid of them. I used to roll a lot, but now I don't roll anymore. I used to struggle in neutral, now I've gotten much better at neutral. Now at this point, I have to worry about my landing options as well as my spacing. Again, Roy isn't as "blessed" as others when it comes to his kit; he has to work harder when it comes to things such as landing and spacing and I'm okay with that. I like Roy a lot in this game. I would use a few of the other characters I like in this game, but my goal is to become good with Roy. If I were to play another character, it would hinder my process to get good with him, you know? I'm kinda playing to get fame too, although I will mostly keep Smash as a hobby. I'm not playing it for money really; I just wanna give hope to those who are maining "low tiers" as well as girls who want to get into the Smash community.

I'm glad you're starting to feel better, bro. With enough drive, almost anything is possible. I think I'm talented to a degree, but my drive is much stronger than my talent. Because of this, I can get to places I wouldn't even imagine.



Oh man, yeah. I've heard that MVC3 isn't the only game where he is absurdly powerful. I'm not surprised by this at all; I read about him on the Mega Man Wikia, and it states that his long combos is apart of his fighting style as well as his personality; he's ruthless when it comes to fighting.

I've noticed that I tend to like swordsman characters, especially if they're a glass cannon. I also like characters who are speedy and hit hard. Apparently Zero's no different. I heard in MVC3, he suffers from fighting zoners, just like Roy haha!

I do wonder what it would be like for Zero to be in Smash. Long combos are a canon thing for him apparently. I hope that if they ever do decide to put him in Smash Bros, they won't make him a Bayo 2.0. I'd hate to be treated with disgust just because I play a "broken" character. I only pick top tiers if the top tier just so happens to be a character I like. I usually just latch on to low or mid tier characters other wise. I'd kinda know how the Bayonetta mains would feel if Zero came into Smash with a lot of crazy moves, lol. I can already kind of feel that when looking at some of the comments in Zero MVC3 vids.

Speaking of which, I think I now know why ZeRo's the best Smash 4 player now. ;)

I also do notice that I like zoning characters. I don't play Mega Man seriously in Smash anymore, but I did love his projectile barriers and his ability to stop a character in their tracks. I also played Villager and Ness as well as the post patch Mewtwo. It appears that I favor either glass cannon swordies or zoning characters in fighting games. It's mostly glass cannon swordies that I like though.

Edit: Found more things that make Zero similar to Roy; he prefers close combat and is more difficult to use. If any of you MMX fans know any better though, feel free to correct me on this, lol.
You and I seem to share some similar intreset in characters. I love characters with swords. Even more if they have a projectile (that is literally a must for with a character with the exception of say Roy or Falcon/Lil Mac). And Even more more if they are speed.

That's literally one of the reasons I love Young Link so much. He fits all those things. Sword, speed and projectiles. Plus his super cute to boot.

I wish he was back in Smash....

I want more women in the Smash community. It's impressive that Smash covers so many barriers, the only major one I can think of missing is gender. We have players from the mountains, the rich neighborhoods, the Bronx, the Thomsalands, and a lot of average joe areas. We have white people, black people, hispanic people, asian people, and just people from all over the world at any given event. Smashfest is pretty much a term equivalent to sausagefest, and I want to see that change someday just because of one observation a buddy made when he first got into Smash on how he'd like to see more women. It really hit to hear from a perspective of someone who is new to the scene.

If we reached out more to women who might be interested, I think it'd go a long way.

We need to encourage hygiene for players as well, it's not hard to take a 5-10 minute shower, brush teeth, and throw on deodorant before an event. Nobody should smell like butt, or some weird cheese, and I'm going to stop there because I feel a bit of nausea from remembering smells. It goes both ways, nobody should smell like they spilled a bottle of Axe or perfume on themselves.

I also knew a few female smashers who had to deal with a lot of thirsty guys in the scene, players just need to keep it in their pants and remember that people aren't there to date or find a boyfriend.

I dated a female smasher online for a few months this winter (hey don't look at my post that way, I'm no hypocrite at this very moment in time, she approached me initially like that >:o), and it was funny and weird seeing the attention she'd get. It didn't make me feel envy, it was unrelated things outside of that she which caused that.

Back to the guys, I would laugh or cringe a lot at their comments. They would approach in creepy manners that came off strong, and gave her a lot of special treatment for being female. They would say the corniest or straightforward things that were just.... UGHSHFSHFSFHSFK WHOA BUDDY. People would buy her things and hope to get their e-***** sucked, she was fairly popular. She gets white knighted a lot, and a lot of her personality revolves around publicity. If she complains about something, people will mindlessly join in to try and get the attention they want from a girl. She would use this to validate and justify a lot of her actions, and if I said something to challenge her behavior or some red flag of hers to try and work around it, she'd just run to one of her close guy friends and use them as a diary and act.... weird, towards them. In ways that made me REALLY uncomfortable. Let's just say putting up with this longer than I should, well, that's something better for an inbox or private conversation. It damaged me.

Basically, we need to welcome female Smashers, but not approach them like they need a boyfriend or be nice to them only for ulterior motivates. We need to treat them as equals without making them feel differently for their gender, or else we'll drive them off or give them things that they can build unhealthy mechanisms from. I would be down to work on ways to introduce women to the scene, and ways to show men how to treat women in the scene properly, if it's a project any of us could tackle.

Have you ever been treated in notably different ways for gender? If it's a topic that makes you uncomfortable, I don't want to pressure you into answering.









I have to go soon, but I want to know everyone's thoughts on this matchup chart:


It's contrary to some of my previous thoughts, but I sat down a lot and thought about it. It's ultimately a rough draft and something I want to collect more ideas for.
I have no idea about girls and even less idea about half the things you said :upsidedown:

In regards to your match up list

Ryu +2?

Really?

Outside getting comboed hard, I persoanlly thing Roy does good against Ryu. Especially if he can get Ryu of stage, since he has a sword and can challenge things like his Tatsumaki

Also I not sure about ZSS, Rosaluma's, Yoshi's and Fox's placing but other than that the others seem pretty right.

:135:
 

Serew

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
115
Location
Ze Nedderlends
Yeah shaya, Ftilt is very good. It's one of my main kill options since it's alot safer than fsmash. (at higher %, might as well just ftilt instead of fsmash unless you need the range :p)

For the matchup chart, There are some things i don't really feel right about, but i think it's best to not make a matchup chart now cause of our current skill and people not knowing how to deal with Roy as well :p

On the women subject: I don't think there would be a real way of making it a "project" just simply because it's : Don't be thirsty and be yourself :p but alot of people can't help being thirsty, not sure if there's alot to do about it. Besides, the female friends i have just ignore the attention and stick to the actual friends they have. I think it's more cause most girls are less interested in gaming, and smash is still a smaller game compared to other games :p
It might still be less welcoming to some girls cause of some guys, but just be yourself and be some sort of gateway into the community. Don't overdo the friend thing either, just treat them as any other. IMO this is the best way to go about it :D

Also mason, THOMSAlands? :O
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member

Guest
I want more women in the Smash community. It's impressive that Smash covers so many barriers, the only major one I can think of missing is gender. We have players from the mountains, the rich neighborhoods, the Bronx, the Thomsalands, and a lot of average joe areas. We have white people, black people, hispanic people, asian people, and just people from all over the world at any given event. Smashfest is pretty much a term equivalent to sausagefest, and I want to see that change someday just because of one observation a buddy made when he first got into Smash on how he'd like to see more women. It really hit to hear from a perspective of someone who is new to the scene.

If we reached out more to women who might be interested, I think it'd go a long way.

We need to encourage hygiene for players as well, it's not hard to take a 5-10 minute shower, brush teeth, and throw on deodorant before an event. Nobody should smell like butt, or some weird cheese, and I'm going to stop there because I feel a bit of nausea from remembering smells. It goes both ways, nobody should smell like they spilled a bottle of Axe or perfume on themselves.

I also knew a few female smashers who had to deal with a lot of thirsty guys in the scene, players just need to keep it in their pants and remember that people aren't there to date or find a boyfriend.

I dated a female smasher online for a few months this winter (hey don't look at my post that way, I'm no hypocrite at this very moment in time, she approached me initially like that >:o), and it was funny and weird seeing the attention she'd get. It didn't make me feel envy, it was unrelated things outside of that she which caused that.

Back to the guys, I would laugh or cringe a lot at their comments. They would approach in creepy manners that came off strong, and gave her a lot of special treatment for being female. They would say the corniest or straightforward things that were just.... UGHSHFSHFSFHSFK WHOA BUDDY. People would buy her things and hope to get their e-***** sucked, she was fairly popular. She gets white knighted a lot, and a lot of her personality revolves around publicity. If she complains about something, people will mindlessly join in to try and get the attention they want from a girl. She would use this to validate and justify a lot of her actions, and if I said something to challenge her behavior or some red flag of hers to try and work around it, she'd just run to one of her close guy friends and use them as a diary and act.... weird, towards them. In ways that made me REALLY uncomfortable. Let's just say putting up with this longer than I should, well, that's something better for an inbox or private conversation. It damaged me.

Basically, we need to welcome female Smashers, but not approach them like they need a boyfriend or be nice to them only for ulterior motivates. We need to treat them as equals without making them feel differently for their gender, or else we'll drive them off or give them things that they can build unhealthy mechanisms from. I would be down to work on ways to introduce women to the scene, and ways to show men how to treat women in the scene properly, if it's a project any of us could tackle.

Have you ever been treated in notably different ways for gender? If it's a topic that makes you uncomfortable, I don't want to pressure you into answering.









I have to go soon, but I want to know everyone's thoughts on this matchup chart:


It's contrary to some of my previous thoughts, but I sat down a lot and thought about it. It's ultimately a rough draft and something I want to collect more ideas for.
I'm wondering, how'd you get that font for "WE DEM ROYZ"? It looks really cool. I've seen other people change fonts on these charts and I have no idea how.

also, just to poke a 'lil fun



The legends are true. A skilled Roy can beat any Fox. :4fox:

But legit talk, I'll share my thoughts. It looks pretty solid, I just disagree with a couple since I play some of these characters.

  • I'm not seeing how:4cloud:is even, honestly. He has the advantage over Roy in most areas, and I'd imagine Roy would have trouble dealing with a Cloud who properly spaces and traps Roy's landings well with up air or utilt.
  • Curious on how Rosa and ZSS are potentially +1 for Roy. Can't really say much since I don't play either so I wanna hear from somebody else's perspective lol
  • :4samus: should be -1 imho. 1.1.5 gave her important tools in the MU she previously was lacking in
that's really it tho', I still like it
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
1,296
You and I seem to share some similar intreset in characters. I love characters with swords. Even more if they have a projectile (that is literally a must for with a character with the exception of say Roy or Falcon/Lil Mac). And Even more more if they are speed.

That's literally one of the reasons I love Young Link so much. He fits all those things. Sword, speed and projectiles. Plus his super cute to boot.

I wish he was back in Smash....



I have no idea about girls and even less idea about half the things you said :upsidedown:

In regards to your match up list

Ryu +2?

Really?

Outside getting comboed hard, I persoanlly thing Roy does good against Ryu. Especially if he can get Ryu of stage, since he has a sword and can challenge things like his Tatsumaki

Also I not sure about ZSS, Rosaluma's, Yoshi's and Fox's placing but other than that the others seem pretty right.

:135:
I prepared the Ryu matchup info at work during some downtime, while I didn't do it for anyone else, so it's going to be a LOT more detailed and organized than my insight into other matchups.

Ryu Matchup:
  • We lose in neutral; Ryu's two projectiles force us to give up stage control or commit to dealing with it. They linger quite a while, move slowly, and can follow-up into more stuff. It reminds me of how a good handful of projectiles work in Dissidia: Final Fantasy. The S. Hadoken is multi-hit and forces us to stay in shield unless we use other options to deal with it, and the Ryu should be covering those and punishing us if we stay in shield. The two hadokens vary enough to both be useful mixups in comparison to each other.
  • Ryu wins in recovery and edgeguarding; he can control Tatsumaki's distance and get a free one when he's launched at certain angles, which often happens vs. Roy due to Roy launching him at high angles often. He can outspace or trade our recovery with a strong back air (to knock us far away or stage spike) or dair (to spike us) more easily than other characters can challenge our recovery directly.
  • Ryu has pretty safe tools in general and can hit our shields pretty hard. Roy's OoS options don't work as well against Ryu as they do in other matchups, namely due to Ryu's shieldstun on block and how well he can space things. Ryu has really good spacing tools and can limit+cover our options pretty handily.
  • An additional -1 from my thoughts on the MU come from his up tilt alone, Ryu's punish game ultimately makes me list the MU as a -2. Combined with Ryu's completely fair and balanced rage Shoryuken that kills early vertically, with no startup, no endlag, and startup invincibility frames, he should kill us on the spot if he lands a utilt. Even with SDI, the Ryu can follow and punish our options, and if we don't use our second jump with timing of the gods, that's a free infinite for Ryu while unstaling everything in his movepool except 9 utilts and 1 shoryuken. If he catches us in the air after our second jump, yeah.
He WILL hit you with an up tilt unless you play with Hungrybox levels of reaction and spacing, and even then, it's Roy's frame data vs. Ryu's, so he'll get one anyways :p in general, it forces us to always respect and fear him, we have to play differently and it's an extra layer of conditioning in his favor.
Experience:
  • Best player in CO secondaries Ryu, I play him from time to time.
  • One of our best players solo mains Ryu, and I lost to him 0-2 in bracket last weekend. I did pretty well until he landed utilts, even though I was spacing and playing around them the whole time, and I died at low percents multiple times. Even when I was SD'ing like meth, the hitstun of the move and being forced to land while it has no cooldown let him follow whatever I did. Even saving my second jump on one string got me back into it because I played like a dummy and the player was a monster at catching the slightest things with up tilt.
  • A handful of good friends who are average players main Ryu, and I've played them often since June.
  • I've played Ryus of different skill levels on Anther's, Discord, and a few legit Ryus on For Glory.
  • I pocket Ryu, even if it's for the sake of a specific joke. I feel pretty comfortable vs. Roy and I don't even use the utilt lock since he's just a for fun character.

I feel that Ryu in casual play is nowhere near as polarizing as fighting him in tournament play, which is how the matchup is so hard when these two characters have been released alongside each other.

ZSS Matchup:
Honestly not bad.

She's still a really strong character in competitive play, but Roy's a ground-based character and ZSS has a lot of poor or punishable moves on the ground, so Roy can reliably weave around her.

If she takes to the air, the amount of things she can do is somewhat limited, and you can punish her landings pretty reliably. Her landing options are linear and easy to catch for Roy.

You can b-reverse Flare Blade or wavebounce DED to avoid a lot of her options reliably and a lot of empty hops and good grounded movement in neutral can maneuver around her quite well.

Roy has a lot of tools to punish her general options, her landing, and sometimes her recovery, by swatting her away with a well-spaced aerial. I like using nair's active frames to challenge her down-b sometimes. You can catch it with up smash for free stocks at the right percents, especially with rage.

Since her grab takes time to come out, you can space fair into her shield and then immediately jab or dtilt. If you cover both her drop shield -> jab (outspace) and grab (frame advantage) options, her shield is pretty free for you until she gets hit or retreats.
It's pretty similar to this:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1040769642604169/permalink/1080184611996005/
I have a Project M background from the start of 2.1 in 2012 to the end of 3.0 in mid/late 2014, so I'm used to abusing the shield options and tether grabs from characters such as ZSS, Link, Toon Link, Samus, Lucas, Olimar, and Ivysaur there and spacing aggression against those. It's a really important concept there that carries well here, and I think more players should exploit it, especially with Roy's fair into jab or dtilt on a tether character's shield.

Her projectile isn't really threatening to Roy's sheer mobility, you can punish it from a lot of angles or just avoid it in neutral entirely from your mobility alone. It's not as good vs. Roy as Corrin's charge shot or Ryu's hadokens in my opinion.

Roy's mobility alone is a godsend in this matchup. It's why so many punish opportunities and the ability to avoid her attacks is really prevalent for Roy in particular here. It's why I feel Roy wins in neutral. ZSS has trouble counterplaying it, moving around, and controlling space in the matchup. Roy doesn't have much trouble weaving around her and controlling the pace of the match.

Both characters punish each other pretty hard. ZSS is at a good combo weight for Roy, though, and things like dthrow -> jab -> regrab or fair/nair combos can carry her across the screen handily, she doesn't really have anything to break Roy's combos or landing punishes that well. She's at a weight+fall speed where Roy can combo her well and kill her at decent percents.

She shouldn't really be edgeguarding us if we mix up our recoveries correctly, and we can branch to cover tether, down-b, and up-b for the stock when she recovers with a lot of dedication and focus on her resources. If we cover correctly, we'll get the stock, but otherwise, one read is all it takes.

The key thing to keep in mind with Roy's mobility is that he's also moving around with a disjointed sword. This sword can cut through paralyzer shots and ZSS's long smooth legs pretty well.

I think +1 is pretty reasonable for this MU, with how well Roy can control neutral and the pace of the match, as well as how hard Roy can punish her.

Experience: Several ZSS players in CO with one of them being a notable PR player who always placed well (currently inactive), LOTS of Anther's matchups, playing the MU several times in bracket before and after Roy's release and not losing it yet.

Rosalina and Luma matchup:
In neutral, you can space around her often linear options well with your disjoint and mobility, and she really throws her large hitbox out there. While she has a lot of sheer spacing and outspaces us, keep in mind that we outspace her in a certain way because our sword will stop her hitboxes before they reach us if we time them right versus her aerials.

She'll use tilts, aerials, jab mixups, and star bits to space around us, and our sword is pretty good at cutting around those if we counteract her gameplan properly.

On the ground, our jab can trap Rosalina (explained more in Thomsa's notes at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wr59aiRBezYokEWB6y72EPlQSZvs4KpjSCD3Xj_NjO4/edit?pref=2&pli=1) and force her into a situation where Roy can jab Luma to death, unstaling his other moves and forcing Rosalina to either do something to save Luma, which we punish, or let Luma die, which gets rid of Luma for a while.

Roy naturally does well against floaty characters in this game and can combo them well, and Rosalina is, well, big and floaty. Due to no great combo breakers, Roy can continue tossing Rosalina across the screen and punishing her landings handily otherwise. Run a nair or fair train on her azzzzzzzzz.

Luma helps her in neutral and certain punishes, but with others? Take Flare Blade at the ledge, for instance. We can charge it freely at the ledge, spacing outside of her getup attack. What does it cover?

Getup Coverage:
Neutral getup: Due to hitting Luma, the hitlag of the move increases if you hit the poor star, giving Flare's hitboxes more active frames to hit Rosalina. This will cover the gap between her invulnerability and ability to act. If you act too late and she shields, it will break her shield. Roy can kill off a shield break at any percent, so there you go. If you act too late and she tries to jump onstage or act otherwise, you'll likely still hit her.
Roll in: Due to Rosalina's stature, spacing outside of the getup attack range still hits her roll in and kills. If you hit the Luma, it will extend the hitlag of this move, making it even more reliable.
Jump offstage: Timed just right, you can hit Rosalina with whatever she challenges you with or tries to weave around with. If you're spacing outside of getup attack range, it'll be harder for her to do something like drop off and up air you. If she regrabs the ledge, she's dead.
Getup attack: If you space around this properly, it's an easy reaction and free stock.

I don't know if Flare Blade is absolutely perfect vs. her on the ledge, and the timing will sometimes be inconvenient with wanting to hit her after the maximum duration of the charge or with needing the stronger, larger, more active hitboxes of the move at times. Either way, the low cooldown will allow you to drop the Flare Blade and act, sometimes still catching her while she's vulnerable. Say you misspace Flare Blade on her roll in, you can still fsmash the roll in with a beefy amount of damage and knockback.

With edgeguards, you want to mix up recovery vs. her well, as her options are linear. She can space around Blazer in a Ryu-esque manner, but I feel safer against her edgeguard attempts than other characters who do similar things.

There's a few Luma gimmicks with edgeguarding covered in that doc, I don't want to copy too much of what's in there since there's really good concepts in there and it covers a lot of what I want to say. They're all avoidable and shouldn't really hinder you in the matchup if you play around them correctly.

Onto Counter, I feel that it's an underrated tool in this matchup and hurts Rosalina harder than other characters. If she's fishing for a smash attack or you get the read on one otherwise, it can kill her pretty early. It works against up air, aerial approaches, Luma, basically whatever she tries to kill you with or box you out with. Which is a lot. She doesn't have much she gets off grabs often, besides DI mixups or just wanting to back throw you offstage because that's a Rosalina thing for some reason. :p

Experience:
I used to frequently play a dedicated Rosalina before Roy's release, we played in Grand Finals of a decent-sized wifi bracket.
I used to have a few other Rosalinas I regularly sparred with, they either switched mains or stopped playing Smash.
I've played Rosalina in bracket many times, both before and after Roy, and I was known as a Luma slayer before my hiatus. I have yet to drop a set against any Rosalina I've played.
An inactive PR member who pretty much disappeared mained Rosalina and Sheik. I had to beat him to make it out of pools at Springs Scene VII.
I've played a few good ones on Anther's, I suppose that counts.
I've approached the matchup a handful of times as different characters before Roy, and have the post-Roy insight I need, so I can compare even/advantaged/disadvantaged matchups to how Roy plays vs. her. I played different characters competitively while building fundamentals a lot, and ran into her a decent number of times in 2014 and early to mid 2015. On this alone, I feel that Roy is a definite, unquestionable +1 for me vs. her.

As for JOSHi:
Not even Boy escape Yosho.
https://www.facebook.com/bipbume/ph...0.1460566871./150033235193711/?type=3&theater

With eggs, you can dash under them, and dash attack tears through any eggs that are spaced closely to Yosho. You either dash under them, cut through them, or both with it, while hitting Master Roshi. Roy's low dash in this matchup helps, especially with dash into shield, an aerial, or dash attack versus eggs and some other quirks.

Dash attack covers Yosh's unique double jump at the ledge really well, and sometimes his eggs near the ledge. You either cut through the eggs or trade while the dash attack hitbox slams him. I also like dtilt a lot to cover both the double jump and egg options for recovery, because I either gimp him or set up a gimp. If I mess up, it's free damage and the neutral goes to a point where I'm covering the ledge or his next landing and have the advantage. If Joshey goes high or plays around away from the ledge, you can swat him and either gimp/kill or force resources out of him until he lands and resets neutral. You do need to be careful when edgeguarding or recovering in this matchup, because a trade with his fair is never worth it. Take careful note of your spacing and what Yoshi can do.

Yuraboshi's at that floaty fall speed and nice weight for Roy combos and follow-ups. You can outspace his nair break attempts. If he's landing, wait until he can't nair to run up and punish. You'll often have to jab him multiple times rather than go for one jab when you're going for run up -> grab or something. Fthrow is pretty handy in this matchup, I'd have to say. You can DED or nair chain him from it for big damage.

It all comes down to spacing when he's in the air. If you space correctly, you can drag him across the screen and continue punishing his attempts to land. Nair is really good at this. His tongue and b-reverse with it are both great landing mixups you should watch for, but they're not too difficult to play around.

Since his tongue takes time to come out as a grab, you can fair his shield and then jab or dtilt safely, similar to what I covered with ZSS.

Yoshi's roll is slow, while you have a lot of mobility, so you can run up and up smash, dash attack, grab, or aerial to catch his roll. Keep in mind that Roy is one of the few characters to have more mobility than Booshi, a bit of trivia often neglected with this matchup that really helps Roy in neutral as well as giving him more punish opportunities.

Yoshi's (I'm done with this dumb name gimmick) another one of those matchups where Counter can really work wonders if used well. He's going to just throw out a lot of moves, because, lol Yoshi's frame data, but you want to take advantage of this. When he's running around with up smashes, trying to desperately fsmash you because Yoshi, trying to fair you mindlessly because he's Yoshi, or trying to up air you for the stock because it's actually pretty smart to go for, save that counter for a crucial moment. When Yoshi overextends while he's not used to the counter, catch him and his stock right then and there. Afterwards, they'll play a bit more safely and second-guess themselves a lot of the time. You can feel them out safely in neutral to see if they do this or not.

Even when you can't nab the stock with counter, if their constant fairs/nairs or other things that involve mashing the big green button because of the big green dinosaur's frame data are walling you out, then counter 1-2 times just for damage and mindgames. They'll probably second guess their aggression and remember that all control schemes, even the wiimote, have more buttons than jump and A. It's just something we should mess around with in friendlies and maybe pull in bracket as a gimmick if we feel overwhelmed or annoyed, as long as we don't play on-tilt from it.

Like I said earlier, Yoshi should have trouble landing against you. You can usmash or counter down-b landings, you can cut through his aerial tongue, you can outspace his nair, and you can hurt him even harder when he expends his recovery resources before landing. Like ZSS and Rosalina, he's one of those characters that Roy is better at frame-trapping and juggling than usual, which I feel is pretty common in his +1's.

Ftilt and jab are pretty good punish tools against Yoshi, and they cut into him a bit. Not much to say.

Nair alone is REALLY good in this matchup, it's the main thing that Yoshi mains note whenever I talk to them about the matchup and why they feel it's a -1 for them. I'm really good at using nair to outspace, combo, frame trap, edgeguard, and limit Yoshi's options, and it really goes a long way in this matchup in particular if used properly. Being able to cut twice and stay out a long time is a godsend vs. this character. It's the main reason why I think it's in Roy's favor.

With Roy and Yoshi in neutral, you have different ways to approach him safely. You can get inside his space more safely than he can weave into yours, and your mobility works more against him than his does to yours. A lot of what you can do outspaces or cuts through his stuff, while he has to use fast and safe frame data with shorter moves to play around it, but he can't really force much out of you. I definitely feel advantaged here. Roy's low dash and how his moves (especially nair) cut through eggs means that they shouldn't be a problem if played against optimally.
Yoshi's combo breaks and landings don't work as well against Roy as they do vs. others, I feel.

You can edgeguard Yoshi well, use recovery mixups since he's too floaty to really capitalize if you're using your full aerial momentum and mixups to recover, while Yoshi's aerials don't seem good at edgeguarding a lot of angles Roy can fly in from, yada yada, I wish I had more time atm to cover it.

You can punish him pretty hard, it seems his punishes vs. Roy aren't too noteworthy in the MU compared to Yoshi's others. I WISH I had time to think of more, I don't think I've made too convincing of a case that it's +1 yet. I may finish rambling on about this matchup later. If you're not convinced on why it's +1, and want to know Yoshi's good tools against Roy, I can go into that later. I have to go to a free banquet soon

Experience:
JFK (Yoshi who often wins tournaments) in CO mains Yoshi and uses him most of the time, he won GF's recently at an 84 man tournament I was at Saturday. I played him ONCE and never really discussed the MU with him, but I have the EXP from it.

Brax (Solo Yoshi) is a pretty good CO player who places well, we've played friendlies and exchanged notes a few times.

CO has a LOT of Yoshi, I've played a good handful at smashfests and on WiFi, and they very commonly feel disadvantaged in the MU.

Obligatory "yea I played a few yoshis on anther's wifi ;o" comment which is a trend for me on these super professional matchup analyses.

I will get to Fox, Cloud, and Samus later, I can try and justify any of the placings on this list. I'm fine with being wrong, I'm not a high-level player by any means or even close. I'm not a super-knowledgeable Roy either, just someone with basic matchup ideas and concepts that I give scores to and enjoys doing this kind of thing. :p




I will also get to other replies unless I end up overwhelmed or sidetracked. I wish I had more time to proofread and finish my current thoughts, but I should be back this evening.
 
Last edited:

TTTTTsd

Gordeau Main Paint Drinker
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
3,999
Location
Canada, where it's really cold
NNID
InverseTangent
I can slap Cloud vs. Roy notes here if you want. I don't think Roy goes even but it's not worse than -1 for him honestly. He had the better Cloud MU compared to Marth before Marth's range got buffed, now I think Marth's is slightly better than his vs. Cloud.
 
Last edited:

The Merc

Hyrule's "Light"
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
5,186
Location
Hyrule
Thirsty as in guys going after girls cause they're girls, wanting them to be their GF or just give them attention
....

I wish I never asked....

I prepared the Ryu matchup info at work during some downtime, while I didn't do it for anyone else, so it's going to be a LOT more detailed and organized than my insight into other matchups.

Ryu Matchup:
  • We lose in neutral; Ryu's two projectiles force us to give up stage control or commit to dealing with it. They linger quite a while, move slowly, and can follow-up into more stuff. It reminds me of how a good handful of projectiles work in Dissidia: Final Fantasy. The S. Hadoken is multi-hit and forces us to stay in shield unless we use other options to deal with it, and the Ryu should be covering those and punishing us if we stay in shield. The two hadokens vary enough to both be useful mixups in comparison to each other.
  • Ryu wins in recovery and edgeguarding; he can control Tatsumaki's distance and get a free one when he's launched at certain angles, which often happens vs. Roy due to Roy launching him at high angles often. He can outspace or trade our recovery with a strong back air (to knock us far away or stage spike) or dair (to spike us) more easily than other characters can challenge our recovery directly.
  • Ryu has pretty safe tools in general and can hit our shields pretty hard. Roy's OoS options don't work as well against Ryu as they do in other matchups, namely due to Ryu's shieldstun on block and how well he can space things. Ryu has really good spacing tools and can limit+cover our options pretty handily.
  • An additional -1 from my thoughts on the MU come from his up tilt alone, Ryu's punish game ultimately makes me list the MU as a -2. Combined with Ryu's completely fair and balanced rage Shoryuken that kills early vertically, with no startup, no endlag, and startup invincibility frames, he should kill us on the spot if he lands a utilt. Even with SDI, the Ryu can follow and punish our options, and if we don't use our second jump with timing of the gods, that's a free infinite for Ryu while unstaling everything in his movepool except 9 utilts and 1 shoryuken. If he catches us in the air after our second jump, yeah.
He WILL hit you with an up tilt unless you play with Hungrybox levels of reaction and spacing, and even then, it's Roy's frame data vs. Ryu's, so he'll get one anyways :p in general, it forces us to always respect and fear him, we have to play differently and it's an extra layer of conditioning in his favor.
Experience:
  • Best player in CO secondaries Ryu, I play him from time to time.
  • One of our best players solo mains Ryu, and I lost to him 0-2 in bracket last weekend. I did pretty well until he landed utilts, even though I was spacing and playing around them the whole time, and I died at low percents multiple times. Even when I was SD'ing like meth, the hitstun of the move and being forced to land while it has no cooldown let him follow whatever I did. Even saving my second jump on one string got me back into it because I played like a dummy and the player was a monster at catching the slightest things with up tilt.
  • A handful of good friends who are average players main Ryu, and I've played them often since June.
  • I've played Ryus of different skill levels on Anther's, Discord, and a few legit Ryus on For Glory.
  • I pocket Ryu, even if it's for the sake of a specific joke. I feel pretty comfortable vs. Roy and I don't even use the utilt lock since he's just a for fun character.

I feel that Ryu in casual play is nowhere near as polarizing as fighting him in tournament play, which is how the matchup is so hard when these two characters have been released alongside each other.

ZSS Matchup:
Honestly not bad.

She's still a really strong character in competitive play, but Roy's a ground-based character and ZSS has a lot of poor or punishable moves on the ground, so Roy can reliably weave around her.

If she takes to the air, the amount of things she can do is somewhat limited, and you can punish her landings pretty reliably. Her landing options are linear and easy to catch for Roy.

You can b-reverse Flare Blade or wavebounce DED to avoid a lot of her options reliably and a lot of empty hops and good grounded movement in neutral can maneuver around her quite well.

Roy has a lot of tools to punish her general options, her landing, and sometimes her recovery, by swatting her away with a well-spaced aerial. I like using nair's active frames to challenge her down-b sometimes. You can catch it with up smash for free stocks at the right percents, especially with rage.

Since her grab takes time to come out, you can space fair into her shield and then immediately jab or dtilt. If you cover both her drop shield -> jab (outspace) and grab (frame advantage) options, her shield is pretty free for you until she gets hit or retreats.
It's pretty similar to this:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1040769642604169/permalink/1080184611996005/
I have a Project M background from the start of 2.1 in 2012 to the end of 3.0 in mid/late 2014, so I'm used to abusing the shield options and tether grabs from characters such as ZSS, Link, Toon Link, Samus, Lucas, Olimar, and Ivysaur there and spacing aggression against those. It's a really important concept there that carries well here, and I think more players should exploit it, especially with Roy's fair into jab or dtilt on a tether character's shield.

Her projectile isn't really threatening to Roy's sheer mobility, you can punish it from a lot of angles or just avoid it in neutral entirely from your mobility alone. It's not as good vs. Roy as Corrin's charge shot or Ryu's hadokens in my opinion.

Roy's mobility alone is a godsend in this matchup. It's why so many punish opportunities and the ability to avoid her attacks is really prevalent for Roy in particular here. It's why I feel Roy wins in neutral. ZSS has trouble counterplaying it, moving around, and controlling space in the matchup. Roy doesn't have much trouble weaving around her and controlling the pace of the match.

Both characters punish each other pretty hard. ZSS is at a good combo weight for Roy, though, and things like dthrow -> jab -> regrab or fair/nair combos can carry her across the screen handily, she doesn't really have anything to break Roy's combos or landing punishes that well. She's at a weight+fall speed where Roy can combo her well and kill her at decent percents.

She shouldn't really be edgeguarding us if we mix up our recoveries correctly, and we can branch to cover tether, down-b, and up-b for the stock when she recovers with a lot of dedication and focus on her resources. If we cover correctly, we'll get the stock, but otherwise, one read is all it takes.

The key thing to keep in mind with Roy's mobility is that he's also moving around with a disjointed sword. This sword can cut through paralyzer shots and ZSS's long smooth legs pretty well.

I think +1 is pretty reasonable for this MU, with how well Roy can control neutral and the pace of the match, as well as how hard Roy can punish her.

Experience: Several ZSS players in CO with one of them being a notable PR player who always placed well (currently inactive), LOTS of Anther's matchups, playing the MU several times in bracket before and after Roy's release and not losing it yet.

Rosalina and Luma matchup:
In neutral, you can space around her often linear options well with your disjoint and mobility, and she really throws her large hitbox out there. While she has a lot of sheer spacing and outspaces us, keep in mind that we outspace her in a certain way because our sword will stop her hitboxes before they reach us if we time them right versus her aerials.

She'll use tilts, aerials, jab mixups, and star bits to space around us, and our sword is pretty good at cutting around those if we counteract her gameplan properly.

On the ground, our jab can trap Rosalina (explained more in Thomsa's notes at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wr59aiRBezYokEWB6y72EPlQSZvs4KpjSCD3Xj_NjO4/edit?pref=2&pli=1) and force her into a situation where Roy can jab Luma to death, unstaling his other moves and forcing Rosalina to either do something to save Luma, which we punish, or let Luma die, which gets rid of Luma for a while.

Roy naturally does well against floaty characters in this game and can combo them well, and Rosalina is, well, big and floaty. Due to no great combo breakers, Roy can continue tossing Rosalina across the screen and punishing her landings handily otherwise. Run a nair or fair train on her azzzzzzzzz.

Luma helps her in neutral and certain punishes, but with others? Take Flare Blade at the ledge, for instance. We can charge it freely at the ledge, spacing outside of her getup attack. What does it cover?

Getup Coverage:
Neutral getup: Due to hitting Luma, the hitlag of the move increases if you hit the poor star, giving Flare's hitboxes more active frames to hit Rosalina. This will cover the gap between her invulnerability and ability to act. If you act too late and she shields, it will break her shield. Roy can kill off a shield break at any percent, so there you go. If you act too late and she tries to jump onstage or act otherwise, you'll likely still hit her.
Roll in: Due to Rosalina's stature, spacing outside of the getup attack range still hits her roll in and kills. If you hit the Luma, it will extend the hitlag of this move, making it even more reliable.
Jump offstage: Timed just right, you can hit Rosalina with whatever she challenges you with or tries to weave around with. If you're spacing outside of getup attack range, it'll be harder for her to do something like drop off and up air you. If she regrabs the ledge, she's dead.
Getup attack: If you space around this properly, it's an easy reaction and free stock.

I don't know if Flare Blade is absolutely perfect vs. her on the ledge, and the timing will sometimes be inconvenient with wanting to hit her after the maximum duration of the charge or with needing the stronger, larger, more active hitboxes of the move at times. Either way, the low cooldown will allow you to drop the Flare Blade and act, sometimes still catching her while she's vulnerable. Say you misspace Flare Blade on her roll in, you can still fsmash the roll in with a beefy amount of damage and knockback.

With edgeguards, you want to mix up recovery vs. her well, as her options are linear. She can space around Blazer in a Ryu-esque manner, but I feel safer against her edgeguard attempts than other characters who do similar things.

There's a few Luma gimmicks with edgeguarding covered in that doc, I don't want to copy too much of what's in there since there's really good concepts in there and it covers a lot of what I want to say. They're all avoidable and shouldn't really hinder you in the matchup if you play around them correctly.

Onto Counter, I feel that it's an underrated tool in this matchup and hurts Rosalina harder than other characters. If she's fishing for a smash attack or you get the read on one otherwise, it can kill her pretty early. It works against up air, aerial approaches, Luma, basically whatever she tries to kill you with or box you out with. Which is a lot. She doesn't have much she gets off grabs often, besides DI mixups or just wanting to back throw you offstage because that's a Rosalina thing for some reason. :p

Experience:
I used to frequently play a dedicated Rosalina before Roy's release, we played in Grand Finals of a decent-sized wifi bracket.
I used to have a few other Rosalinas I regularly sparred with, they either switched mains or stopped playing Smash.
I've played Rosalina in bracket many times, both before and after Roy, and I was known as a Luma slayer before my hiatus. I have yet to drop a set against any Rosalina I've played.
An inactive PR member who pretty much disappeared mained Rosalina and Sheik. I had to beat him to make it out of pools at Springs Scene VII.
I've played a few good ones on Anther's, I suppose that counts.
I've approached the matchup a handful of times as different characters before Roy, and have the post-Roy insight I need, so I can compare even/advantaged/disadvantaged matchups to how Roy plays vs. her. I played different characters competitively while building fundamentals a lot, and ran into her a decent number of times in 2014 and early to mid 2015. On this alone, I feel that Roy is a definite, unquestionable +1 for me vs. her.

As for JOSHi:
Not even Boy escape Yosho.
https://www.facebook.com/bipbume/ph...0.1460566871./150033235193711/?type=3&theater

With eggs, you can dash under them, and dash attack tears through any eggs that are spaced closely to Yosho. You either dash under them, cut through them, or both with it, while hitting Master Roshi. Roy's low dash in this matchup helps, especially with dash into shield, an aerial, or dash attack versus eggs and some other quirks.

Dash attack covers Yosh's unique double jump at the ledge really well, and sometimes his eggs near the ledge. You either cut through the eggs or trade while the dash attack hitbox slams him. I also like dtilt a lot to cover both the double jump and egg options for recovery, because I either gimp him or set up a gimp. If I mess up, it's free damage and the neutral goes to a point where I'm covering the ledge or his next landing and have the advantage. If Joshey goes high or plays around away from the ledge, you can swat him and either gimp/kill or force resources out of him until he lands and resets neutral. You do need to be careful when edgeguarding or recovering in this matchup, because a trade with his fair is never worth it. Take careful note of your spacing and what Yoshi can do.

Yuraboshi's at that floaty fall speed and nice weight for Roy combos and follow-ups. You can outspace his nair break attempts. If he's landing, wait until he can't nair to run up and punish. You'll often have to jab him multiple times rather than go for one jab when you're going for run up -> grab or something. Fthrow is pretty handy in this matchup, I'd have to say. You can DED or nair chain him from it for big damage.

It all comes down to spacing when he's in the air. If you space correctly, you can drag him across the screen and continue punishing his attempts to land. Nair is really good at this. His tongue and b-reverse with it are both great landing mixups you should watch for, but they're not too difficult to play around.

Since his tongue takes time to come out as a grab, you can fair his shield and then jab or dtilt safely, similar to what I covered with ZSS.

Yoshi's roll is slow, while you have a lot of mobility, so you can run up and up smash, dash attack, grab, or aerial to catch his roll. Keep in mind that Roy is one of the few characters to have more mobility than Booshi, a bit of trivia often neglected with this matchup that really helps Roy in neutral as well as giving him more punish opportunities.

Yoshi's (I'm done with this dumb name gimmick) another one of those matchups where Counter can really work wonders if used well. He's going to just throw out a lot of moves, because, lol Yoshi's frame data, but you want to take advantage of this. When he's running around with up smashes, trying to desperately fsmash you because Yoshi, trying to fair you mindlessly because he's Yoshi, or trying to up air you for the stock because it's actually pretty smart to go for, save that counter for a crucial moment. When Yoshi overextends while he's not used to the counter, catch him and his stock right then and there. Afterwards, they'll play a bit more safely and second-guess themselves a lot of the time. You can feel them out safely in neutral to see if they do this or not.

Even when you can't nab the stock with counter, if their constant fairs/nairs or other things that involve mashing the big green button because of the big green dinosaur's frame data are walling you out, then counter 1-2 times just for damage and mindgames. They'll probably second guess their aggression and remember that all control schemes, even the wiimote, have more buttons than jump and A. It's just something we should mess around with in friendlies and maybe pull in bracket as a gimmick if we feel overwhelmed or annoyed, as long as we don't play on-tilt from it.

Like I said earlier, Yoshi should have trouble landing against you. You can usmash or counter down-b landings, you can cut through his aerial tongue, you can outspace his nair, and you can hurt him even harder when he expends his recovery resources before landing. Like ZSS and Rosalina, he's one of those characters that Roy is better at frame-trapping and juggling than usual, which I feel is pretty common in his +1's.

Ftilt and jab are pretty good punish tools against Yoshi, and they cut into him a bit. Not much to say.

Nair alone is REALLY good in this matchup, it's the main thing that Yoshi mains note whenever I talk to them about the matchup and why they feel it's a -1 for them. I'm really good at using nair to outspace, combo, frame trap, edgeguard, and limit Yoshi's options, and it really goes a long way in this matchup in particular if used properly. Being able to cut twice and stay out a long time is a godsend vs. this character. It's the main reason why I think it's in Roy's favor.

With Roy and Yoshi in neutral, you have different ways to approach him safely. You can get inside his space more safely than he can weave into yours, and your mobility works more against him than his does to yours. A lot of what you can do outspaces or cuts through his stuff, while he has to use fast and safe frame data with shorter moves to play around it, but he can't really force much out of you. I definitely feel advantaged here. Roy's low dash and how his moves (especially nair) cut through eggs means that they shouldn't be a problem if played against optimally.
Yoshi's combo breaks and landings don't work as well against Roy as they do vs. others, I feel.

You can edgeguard Yoshi well, use recovery mixups since he's too floaty to really capitalize if you're using your full aerial momentum and mixups to recover, while Yoshi's aerials don't seem good at edgeguarding a lot of angles Roy can fly in from, yada yada, I wish I had more time atm to cover it.

You can punish him pretty hard, it seems his punishes vs. Roy aren't too noteworthy in the MU compared to Yoshi's others. I WISH I had time to think of more, I don't think I've made too convincing of a case that it's +1 yet. I may finish rambling on about this matchup later. If you're not convinced on why it's +1, and want to know Yoshi's good tools against Roy, I can go into that later. I have to go to a free banquet soon

Experience:
JFK (Yoshi who often wins tournaments) in CO mains Yoshi and uses him most of the time, he won GF's recently at an 84 man tournament I was at Saturday. I played him ONCE and never really discussed the MU with him, but I have the EXP from it.

Brax (Solo Yoshi) is a pretty good CO player who places well, we've played friendlies and exchanged notes a few times.

CO has a LOT of Yoshi, I've played a good handful at smashfests and on WiFi, and they very commonly feel disadvantaged in the MU.

Obligatory "yea I played a few yoshis on anther's wifi ;o" comment which is a trend for me on these super professional matchup analyses.

I will get to Fox, Cloud, and Samus later, I can try and justify any of the placings on this list. I'm fine with being wrong, I'm not a high-level player by any means or even close. I'm not a super-knowledgeable Roy either, just someone with basic matchup ideas and concepts that I give scores to and enjoys doing this kind of thing. :p




I will also get to other replies unless I end up overwhelmed or sidetracked. I wish I had more time to proofread and finish my current thoughts, but I should be back this evening.
Huh, those are actually a pretty fair points and you do have experience to back it up. Though there are a still things I'm iffy about

- With Ryu Hadouken's, you can literally beat them with anything. No need to shield. Just either walk away from them or jab to get rid of them.
- i think you forgot with the ZSS match up that while Roy can do well against her from what you are saying, I think you forgot to mention that if ZSS gets on you or gets a grab, Roy is kind of screwed.
- I not sure what it is, but for some reason, I still imagine that Roy doesn't do well against Rosaluma. I don't want it is. Might be Luma's ****ing annoyance.
- What if Yoshi throws the eggs were you will be rather than were you are? That could stuff around with the match up a lot.

That's just my 2 cents. I have literally no human matchup experience, so my word really means' nothing

:135:
 

Guineapig126

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2014
Messages
283
Location
New Jersey
I want more women in the Smash community. It's impressive that Smash covers so many barriers, the only major one I can think of missing is gender. We have players from the mountains, the rich neighborhoods, the Bronx, the Thomsalands, and a lot of average joe areas. We have white people, black people, hispanic people, asian people, and just people from all over the world at any given event. Smashfest is pretty much a term equivalent to sausagefest, and I want to see that change someday just because of one observation a buddy made when he first got into Smash on how he'd like to see more women. It really hit to hear from a perspective of someone who is new to the scene.

If we reached out more to women who might be interested, I think it'd go a long way.

We need to encourage hygiene for players as well, it's not hard to take a 5-10 minute shower, brush teeth, and throw on deodorant before an event. Nobody should smell like butt, or some weird cheese, and I'm going to stop there because I feel a bit of nausea from remembering smells. It goes both ways, nobody should smell like they spilled a bottle of Axe or perfume on themselves.

I also knew a few female smashers who had to deal with a lot of thirsty guys in the scene, players just need to keep it in their pants and remember that people aren't there to date or find a boyfriend.

I dated a female smasher online for a few months this winter (hey don't look at my post that way, I'm no hypocrite at this very moment in time, she approached me initially like that >:o), and it was funny and weird seeing the attention she'd get. It didn't make me feel envy, it was unrelated things outside of that she which caused that.

Back to the guys, I would laugh or cringe a lot at their comments. They would approach in creepy manners that came off strong, and gave her a lot of special treatment for being female. They would say the corniest or straightforward things that were just.... UGHSHFSHFSFHSFK WHOA BUDDY. People would buy her things and hope to get their e-***** sucked, she was fairly popular. She gets white knighted a lot, and a lot of her personality revolves around publicity. If she complains about something, people will mindlessly join in to try and get the attention they want from a girl. She would use this to validate and justify a lot of her actions, and if I said something to challenge her behavior or some red flag of hers to try and work around it, she'd just run to one of her close guy friends and use them as a diary and act.... weird, towards them. In ways that made me REALLY uncomfortable. Let's just say putting up with this longer than I should, well, that's something better for an inbox or private conversation. It damaged me.

Basically, we need to welcome female Smashers, but not approach them like they need a boyfriend or be nice to them only for ulterior motivates. We need to treat them as equals without making them feel differently for their gender, or else we'll drive them off or give them things that they can build unhealthy mechanisms from. I would be down to work on ways to introduce women to the scene, and ways to show men how to treat women in the scene properly, if it's a project any of us could tackle.

Have you ever been treated in notably different ways for gender? If it's a topic that makes you uncomfortable, I don't want to pressure you into answering.









I have to go soon, but I want to know everyone's thoughts on this matchup chart:


It's contrary to some of my previous thoughts, but I sat down a lot and thought about it. It's ultimately a rough draft and something I want to collect more ideas for.
 
Last edited:

Lady Kuki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
490
Location
US
NNID
PetraRal01
3DS FC
4854-7185-6306
I want more women in the Smash community. It's impressive that Smash covers so many barriers, the only major one I can think of missing is gender. We have players from the mountains, the rich neighborhoods, the Bronx, the Thomsalands, and a lot of average joe areas. We have white people, black people, hispanic people, asian people, and just people from all over the world at any given event. Smashfest is pretty much a term equivalent to sausagefest, and I want to see that change someday just because of one observation a buddy made when he first got into Smash on how he'd like to see more women. It really hit to hear from a perspective of someone who is new to the scene.

If we reached out more to women who might be interested, I think it'd go a long way.

We need to encourage hygiene for players as well, it's not hard to take a 5-10 minute shower, brush teeth, and throw on deodorant before an event. Nobody should smell like butt, or some weird cheese, and I'm going to stop there because I feel a bit of nausea from remembering smells. It goes both ways, nobody should smell like they spilled a bottle of Axe or perfume on themselves.

I also knew a few female smashers who had to deal with a lot of thirsty guys in the scene, players just need to keep it in their pants and remember that people aren't there to date or find a boyfriend.

I dated a female smasher online for a few months this winter (hey don't look at my post that way, I'm no hypocrite at this very moment in time, she approached me initially like that >:o), and it was funny and weird seeing the attention she'd get. It didn't make me feel envy, it was unrelated things outside of that she which caused that.

Back to the guys, I would laugh or cringe a lot at their comments. They would approach in creepy manners that came off strong, and gave her a lot of special treatment for being female. They would say the corniest or straightforward things that were just.... UGHSHFSHFSFHSFK WHOA BUDDY. People would buy her things and hope to get their e-***** sucked, she was fairly popular. She gets white knighted a lot, and a lot of her personality revolves around publicity. If she complains about something, people will mindlessly join in to try and get the attention they want from a girl. She would use this to validate and justify a lot of her actions, and if I said something to challenge her behavior or some red flag of hers to try and work around it, she'd just run to one of her close guy friends and use them as a diary and act.... weird, towards them. In ways that made me REALLY uncomfortable. Let's just say putting up with this longer than I should, well, that's something better for an inbox or private conversation. It damaged me.

Basically, we need to welcome female Smashers, but not approach them like they need a boyfriend or be nice to them only for ulterior motivates. We need to treat them as equals without making them feel differently for their gender, or else we'll drive them off or give them things that they can build unhealthy mechanisms from. I would be down to work on ways to introduce women to the scene, and ways to show men how to treat women in the scene properly, if it's a project any of us could tackle.

Have you ever been treated in notably different ways for gender? If it's a topic that makes you uncomfortable, I don't want to pressure you into answering.









I have to go soon, but I want to know everyone's thoughts on this matchup chart:


It's contrary to some of my previous thoughts, but I sat down a lot and thought about it. It's ultimately a rough draft and something I want to collect more ideas for.
Man, I love the idea of bringing more female players to Smash, but there's just one, teensy, little problem with that:

In society, women are not encouraged to play video games. Gaming is generally considered a male hobby. Women are more encouraged to be involved in social activities or activities that are good for your mental and physical health.

Look at your average video game commercial. See any girls? Nope, not really. You would only see women in gaming commercials if:
A. It's a commercial advertising a game made for casuals. EX: Mario Party, Just Dance etc.
B. Sexy advertising. Either a hot girl is advertising the game, or a hot girl from the game is advertised in the commercial.
or
C. If the commercial is advertising a game for girls. You know those types of games. The Petz series, Fashion games, Barbie games and all that jazz.

Not only are women not encouraged to be involved in gaming, but the way women are treated in the gaming community is atrocious to say the least.
I've been playing this MMO for a very long time. I won't tell you the name, because I'm honestly still afraid that the weirdos are stalking me to this day. I was playing it since I was a little kid. In the MMO, I'd usually dress up as a guy or a Pokemon since I found it kind of fun to play as a character that wasn't me. When I told people what gender I was, I got the following responses:

"Lol, what are you? A transexual?"
"She's just playing this game for attention."
"You're a girl? That's hot."

I mostly got the third response, and that response made me very uncomfortable. There was a marriage system in the game and there was one guy who always asked me if I could marry him. Guys would randomly treat me like crap and would tell me they would only stop if I gave them nudes. I was like what... eleven or twelve when this all happened too. My computer shut down in early 2010, so I couldn't play the game anymore. I wanted to go back since I had fun with it, but after contemplating for a few months, I realized that it was a good thing that I couldn't play that MMO any longer. It was at that point where I just gave up on MMOs and went on social media. I get treated much better on there. Plus, MMO's are distracting anyway. I'm glad I no longer have many time consuming stuff holding me down anymore.

Regardless of how I am treated in the gaming community, I'm still involved in it. I avoid MMO's like the plague now, but I'm still involved in games like Pokemon, Smash Bros etc. I don't ever want to truly leave the gaming community; I love playing video games. It's my second favorite hobby after drawing. I can't leave completely just because a few perverts ruined my day. I can't find many other things that I like as much as gaming.

Man, I still get harassed when I go out to tournaments, but honestly I get harassed in many places I go. It's not often, but harassment is everywhere. It's something I have to deal with. A few weeks ago, I was hanging out with my friends at a Smash/Fighting game regional, and this guy was flirting with me. I felt uncomfortable, and one of my friends knew, so he got me out of the situation as soon as possible. I really like the Smash community. I may get creepy cat calls every now and then, but the people are too cool for me to leave. I've made friends with a lot of people. My social life has improved immensely. I feel at home. I no longer feel weird for being a girl who's into cartoons and video games. School didn't give me this, so I'm glad gaming communities exist.

Also, I think another thing that causes girls to be harassed are the gamer girls. You know, the girls who play games just to attract boys? Those girls get on my nerves. Gamers would think that girls who play video games only do it for the attention, and that is simply not true. I think what makes this worse are some of the girls that do sexy cosplay. I think it ruins the way gamers think of us, because they think that all girls want to do is be sexy and cute all the time while gaming. It attracts both people who think girls are "attention seekers" and perverts who think girls only exist for sex.

Don't forget the Twitch chat. Literally every time a girl shows up, guys start to go crazy. Like, is it so hard to treat a girl like a human being and not a sex toy? Geez...

I think I have a strong enough will to make a mark in the gaming community. I think I can deal with being harassed and cat called. After all, this type of stuff has been happening to me since I was twelve. I want to inspire more girls who want to be in gaming. I want female gamers to be a mainstream thing. I was thinking about getting into Game Design as well. I can make games that could appeal to both genders, and perhaps inspire more women to get into Game Design. If we get more women into gaming, stereotypes will die and female gamers will no longer be a taboo.
 
Last edited:

The Merc

Hyrule's "Light"
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
5,186
Location
Hyrule
I don't know if this makes you feel better, but if I saw or heard anyone doing that, i would go right up to them and give a piece of it. Hell I'd go as far as slapping the crap out of them

:135:
 

EnGarde

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
654
3DS FC
4914-3671-9440
I haven't played Smash in a long time, anyone have any tips on Roy?
Wow blast from the past, how have you been? Do you still play pokemon?

Also, tips on Roy are sourspots. :p They are useful, but for true punishes, go in for sweetspots. :) He's a challenging character, though, so you might find an easier time getting back into smash with an easier character. (It's really hard to give solid advice on such a broad subject tbh lol, sorry if that was pretty insubstantial).
 

Schnizzle Fits

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 23, 2015
Messages
71
Location
A Taco Stand
Best of luck Lady Kuki. My older sister was who I played Smash alot, she did enter our locals a year ago and managed to get 8th out of 28. She doesn't put up with it and would likely shove their shoe down their own throat but because its small its a non issue.

I digress, I've played Smash since 64 with my Sister and I know a female can be competent at Smash. Her choice to pick Marth in Melee made me pick Peach because I was sick and tired of being edge guarded. I played WoW for too many years than Im proud of and in that time only 1 female was the "gamer girl".
 

Jiom

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
474
On the topic of male/female social interactions, something that I agree should be discussed more, especially in the smash community;

I think that some male's act that way towards females because simply put, they legitimately don't know how to act around females in a social environment(even private environment). Sure, there are reasons for this. Maybe they just don't have much exposure to girls in a social setting, maybe they are sexually frustrated, maybe they are just completely unaware, maybe they have little to no social experience with girls in the first place.

Whatever the reason, it still shouldn't happen in the first place and girls shouldn't feel like they are being singled out, when in the first place, the smash community should be the opposite of that. People have their reasons for getting into the smash community, A lot of people's reasoning is just to get away from the stress of our daily lives and temporarily forget what goes on in our lives that other people don't know about, or just those close to us know about.

If people can't get that type of comfort, regardless of gender, but in this case more catered towards females, people will be less inclined to want to attend smash related events. If they just have to deal with the same type of bs that they deal with in their daily lives, it's like why even bother.


Anyway it's pretty late here and I myself don't have too much experience with other people's take on the smash community, but it honestly doesn't seem to different from what happens in social environments like some schools or places that are generally male dominated by population.

It's something that should change, and for the better, but it will take some time and with a hell of a lot of scolding to boot. There is a lot people can learn about acceptable behavior in public places so it might not be that easy of a task either, but if people are more willing to be open about their social experiences and openly willing to discuss it, I'm sure the information will fall into the right hands and maybe even change a lot of negative attitudes or social stigmas that people currently hold, for the better.

Difficult topic to discuss, something earnest, but I respect every post in relation to it.
 
Last edited:

Shaya

   「chase you」 
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
27,654
Location
/人◕‿‿◕人\ FABULOUS Max!
NNID
ShayaJP
Thought of the day - SHFF Dair hits on frame 16-17 and lands on frame 20, for -17 (or -16) on block. If you were to delay dairing for 3-4 frames you'd get a technically safer -13, but you probably wouldn't have given yourself as much distance.
Full aerial momentum jumping forward (or maybe backward) and crossing over a shield before hitting with it is kind safe used sporadically, and the reward for hitting it is pretty okay as it sends them directly up and is 15%.

This could also feasibly be an okay out of shield option.
 

The Merc

Hyrule's "Light"
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
5,186
Location
Hyrule
Man, I love the idea of bringing more female players to Smash, but there's just one, teensy, little problem with that:

In society, women are not encouraged to play video games. Gaming is generally considered a male hobby. Women are more encouraged to be involved in social activities or activities that are good for your mental and physical health.

Look at your average video game commercial. See any girls? Nope, not really. You would only see women in gaming commercials if:
A. It's a commercial advertising a game made for casuals. EX: Mario Party, Just Dance etc.
B. Sexy advertising. Either a hot girl is advertising the game, or a hot girl from the game is advertised in the commercial.
or
C. If the commercial is advertising a game for girls. You know those types of games. The Petz series, Fashion games, Barbie games and all that jazz.

Not only are women not encouraged to be involved in gaming, but the way women are treated in the gaming community is atrocious to say the least.
I've been playing this MMO for a very long time. I won't tell you the name, because I'm honestly still afraid that the weirdos are stalking me to this day. I was playing it since I was a little kid. In the MMO, I'd usually dress up as a guy or a Pokemon since I found it kind of fun to play as a character that wasn't me. When I told people what gender I was, I got the following responses:

"Lol, what are you? A transexual?"
"She's just playing this game for attention."
"You're a girl? That's hot."

I mostly got the third response, and that response made me very uncomfortable. There was a marriage system in the game and there was one guy who always asked me if I could marry him. Guys would randomly treat me like crap and would tell me they would only stop if I gave them nudes. I was like what... eleven or twelve when this all happened too. My computer shut down in early 2010, so I couldn't play the game anymore. I wanted to go back since I had fun with it, but after contemplating for a few months, I realized that it was a good thing that I couldn't play that MMO any longer. It was at that point where I just gave up on MMOs and went on social media. I get treated much better on there. Plus, MMO's are distracting anyway. I'm glad I no longer have many time consuming stuff holding me down anymore.

Regardless of how I am treated in the gaming community, I'm still involved in it. I avoid MMO's like the plague now, but I'm still involved in games like Pokemon, Smash Bros etc. I don't ever want to truly leave the gaming community; I love playing video games. It's my second favorite hobby after drawing. I can't leave completely just because a few perverts ruined my day. I can't find many other things that I like as much as gaming.

Man, I still get harassed when I go out to tournaments, but honestly I get harassed in many places I go. It's not often, but harassment is everywhere. It's something I have to deal with. A few weeks ago, I was hanging out with my friends at a Smash/Fighting game regional, and this guy was flirting with me. I felt uncomfortable, and one of my friends knew, so he got me out of the situation as soon as possible. I really like the Smash community. I may get creepy cat calls every now and then, but the people are too cool for me to leave. I've made friends with a lot of people. My social life has improved immensely. I feel at home. I no longer feel weird for being a girl who's into cartoons and video games. School didn't give me this, so I'm glad gaming communities exist.

Also, I think another thing that causes girls to be harassed are the gamer girls. You know, the girls who play games just to attract boys? Those girls get on my nerves. Gamers would think that girls who play video games only do it for the attention, and that is simply not true. I think what makes this worse are some of the girls that do sexy cosplay. I think it ruins the way gamers think of us, because they think that all girls want to do is be sexy and cute all the time while gaming. It attracts both people who think girls are "attention seekers" and perverts who think girls only exist for sex.

Don't forget the Twitch chat. Literally every time a girl shows up, guys start to go crazy. Like, is it so hard to treat a girl like a human being and not a sex toy? Geez...

I think I have a strong enough will to make a mark in the gaming community. I think I can deal with being harassed and cat called. After all, this type of stuff has been happening to me since I was twelve. I want to inspire more girls who want to be in gaming. I want female gamers to be a mainstream thing. I was thinking about getting into Game Design as well. I can make games that could appeal to both genders, and perhaps inspire more women to get into Game Design. If we get more women into gaming, stereotypes will die and female gamers will no longer be a taboo.

Why not like sass them back or something?

Either way, I'm really sorry you and other girls have had to go through. Seriously,

It's just a huge irony to all this that I don't understand why.

Lady Kuki, from the bottom of my heart, I am sorry about all this and after reading all these post on woman gamers in the community, I am embarrassed to be a man and I am ashamed. I wish there was more I could do, but unfortunately I do not have the power to.

Again, I am sorry.

Thought of the day - SHFF Dair hits on frame 16-17 and lands on frame 20, for -17 (or -16) on block. If you were to delay dairing for 3-4 frames you'd get a technically safer -13, but you probably wouldn't have given yourself as much distance.
Full aerial momentum jumping forward (or maybe backward) and crossing over a shield before hitting with it is kind safe used sporadically, and the reward for hitting it is pretty okay as it sends them directly up and is 15%.

This could also feasibly be an okay out of shield option.
Then there's Shaya popping in with a random comment. How Australian.

Though it is good to see I'm not the only one who likes using Dair from time to time

:135:
 
Top Bottom