Social Roy Social - R O Y B O Y Z

[Rango the Mercenary]

Yooooooooooo I think I remember you from the Ike boards in 2014 or early 2015. I think I encouraged you to use Ike for a local tournament before you got 1st out of 24th at it or something like that. I might have the wrong person, though.

I re-read and holy hell, Fatality. That's pretty good. Hopefully this means Ryo's Roy has been leveling up and that he'll pull him more. If you've been in touch with him, could you please let him know that we're interested in bringing him on board to the Roy discord? We have a lot we could help improve him on, and a lot we'd like to learn from him.

Dang, it's been a while since I don't remember you much at all.

But Ryo flat-out said Roy's neutral sucks. He said he won because he was conditioning Fatality.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Dang, it's been a while since I don't remember you much at all.

But Ryo flat-out said Roy's neutral sucks. He said he won because he was conditioning Fatality.

No worries, I wasn't around very long and mostly lurked. I didn't post much or leave a memorable impact. I changed my tag, and my avatar+mains are 100% different.


That's a shame. Hopefully we can continue to work on our neutrals as players and continue pushing Roy's movement options and unexplored or neglected tools to mitigate shortcomings in neutral.

Still, it's Roy 3-1'ing Fatality of all players. That's pretty good, and the outcome is there no matter what, even if Ryo doesn't believe in the character much. Roy shines most with conditioning and reads, and those are things that work even on the best players in the world. We just need to see what we can do with the tools given to us, and what tools we can build from here.

 

[The Merc]

I really am having a hard time understand why Skaurai hasn't buffed Roy yet.

Seriously, there is just so many spilt opinions about him it's not funny.

Some players say his good some don't

Some says certain aspects are good others aren't

Hell, this is even having amongst top players as just noted

I mean come on, when the users of the character can't agree on what exactly his like, there you should know you have a problem

 

[EnGarde]

Yooooooooooo I think I remember you from the Ike boards in 2014 or early 2015. I think I encouraged you to use Ike for a local tournament before you got 1st out of 24th at it or something like that. I might have the wrong person, though.

I re-read and holy hell, Fatality. That's pretty good. Hopefully this means Ryo's Roy has been leveling up and that he'll pull him more. If you've been in touch with him, could you please let him know that we're interested in bringing him on board to the Roy discord? We have a lot we could help improve him on as Roy, and a lot we'd like to learn from him.

Hey ahh, when it comes to inviting players to join the discord group, let's try not to be too pressuring, yeah? Don't want people to feel uncomfortable posting results here because they have to field requests to join other places. The discord is open to everyone that wants to join, but like, this is Ryo's friend here simply to inform us of results, not Ryo himself looking to connect with the Roy community. The context is wrong here for invitations lol.

---

I really am having a hard time understand why Skaurai hasn't buffed Roy yet.

Seriously, there is just so many spilt opinions about him it's not funny.

Some players say his good some don't

Some says certain aspects are good others aren't

Hell, this is even having amongst top players as just noted

I mean come on, when the users of the character can't agree on what exactly his like, there you should know you have a problem

http://buffpuff.club/

 

[LonkQ]

I really need to stop throwing out random Blazers to kill things.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Hey ahh, when it comes to inviting players to join the discord group, let's try not to be too pressuring, yeah? Don't want people to feel uncomfortable posting results here because they have to field requests to join other places. The discord is open to everyone that wants to join, but like, this is Ryo's friend here simply to inform us of results, not Ryo himself looking to connect with the Roy community. The context is wrong here for invitations lol.

---



http://buffpuff.club/

My bad, I'll leave it be then.

My apologies, Rango.

I really am having a hard time understand why Skaurai hasn't buffed Roy yet.

Seriously, there is just so many spilt opinions about him it's not funny.

Some players say his good some don't

Some says certain aspects are good others aren't

Hell, this is even having amongst top players as just noted

I mean come on, when the users of the character can't agree on what exactly his like, there you should know you have a problem

While I fully believe that Roy needs buffs, I don't think it's good to linger on those thoughts.

Sometimes I get too caught up in the idea of a potential buffed Roy, and the types of buffs Roy needs, and then I can't even work with the tools in front of me. It hurts my mindset, it hurts my growth, and it hurts how I treat the community.

We just need to continue pushing forward with the tools we have, and continue exploring the unexplored, since all of us have a lot to implement and improve on. There's so many things I need to do before my Roy is even close to optimized. We just need to keep playing and playing, leveling up, working with the tools in front of us.

All of my losses can be attributed to me being outplayed and approaching situations incorrectly, and I always know what to work on. So, buffs or not, I'll keep pushing forward.

 

[LordTakeo]

I really need to stop throwing out random Blazers to kill things.

But it's fuuuuun!

And hello you lots. Notifications are quite a b...
Well yeah. How are the brave fire fighters?

 

[Fledge]

Hi everybody, just another Roy main here, glad to see more players picking up the Wavebounce DED, it's a really great tool in Roy's arsenal. I'd like to mention that it not only can be used to reverse Roy's momentum jumping forwards, but it can also reverse his momentum if he jumps backwards as well, which can be useful in mindgames and spacing.

Just thought I'd chime in with something really, REALLY stupid that I didn't realize about the change in Smash mechanics until recently (probably bad habits from Melee, so MAYBE there are other folks here who didn't realize it either), but hanging from the ledge you can do a get-up DED if you jump and input side-B as early as possible. The DED comes out before Roy even jumps, and because the move kills momentum he stays right at the floor level and can complete the DED there. Timing can be a little tricky to get it perfectly before jump (you can tell you got it right because the jump poof cloud doesn't animate), but it's a good mixup for ledge getups that has advantages compared to regular attack getup (which is easily readable, can be shielded and then grabbed out of). You can also do this interrupted jump getup to side-B using Blazer, which has a pretty decent range from the ledge and can be just as unexpected, also good for mixups. I actually learned about this at first from some folks who thought it was a whole new technique, turns out it's just that Smash mechanics have changed (since Brawl apparently, can't believe I missed it all this time).

Sorry if it sounds really really dumb, but I mostly played Roy in Melee and had no idea this was now possible, and admittedly haven't seen many Roy mains on Youtube using it, so I figured I'd mention it in case it's useful to anybody.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

But it's fuuuuun!

And hello you lots. Notifications are quite a b...
Well yeah. How are the brave fire fighters?

My day is admittedly pretty nice. Normal day at my job, which is pretty nice. I love this job, I've hated my last two for the past four years, and it was a pretty slow day across the resort. You know those portable, silent things that aren't vacuums and don't use electricity in any way but still pick up stuff? They're pretty light, kinda small, you run them across carpets, and they sort of look vacuum-y. I don't know how to truly describe them, someone here might know a proper term.

Reason being, I'm known for making cleaning miracles happen with tools that shouldn't come close to working, despite not being anything exceptional at these cleaning jobs. My most recent case before this was making a broken plunger nobody had faith in take care of one of the biggest messes I've seen. My supervisor and a few other workers were thrown off pretty hard by it, we used walky-talkies across the resort when I was in housekeeping and word of it was exchanged through there. I switched departments recently because the type of housekeeping here is a really, really difficult job mentally and physically, and it kept getting worse. I put in my two weeks notice at a time where nobody wanted to work there and a few people quit already, and they asked if I wanted to change departments when I was quitting and about to work at 1 or 2 supermarkets. I'm still slowly coming off of those feelings, and I'm a lot happier now.

I made that little trooper (portable thing) clean a huge area of connected rooms and had to empty it so many times. It looked really nice, like someone used an actual vacuum. That thing's known for being awful at picking up anything. Maybe not anything truly interesting, but it was a pretty cool moment for me. I dunno, my day's barely started.

I'm just watching Raziek's videos on building fundamentals, and really enjoying them:

Might go to the gym later since I'm really focused on weight loss. I slouched after the first month, but I just need to keep going strong again like the last few days.

After typing that, I had a pretty big falling out with family I just need to center myself and come back and check on Fledge's post when I'm ready.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Hi everybody, just another Roy main here, glad to see more players picking up the Wavebounce DED, it's a really great tool in Roy's arsenal. I'd like to mention that it not only can be used to reverse Roy's momentum jumping forwards, but it can also reverse his momentum if he jumps backwards as well, which can be useful in mindgames and spacing.

Just thought I'd chime in with something really, REALLY stupid that I didn't realize about the change in Smash mechanics until recently (probably bad habits from Melee, so MAYBE there are other folks here who didn't realize it either), but hanging from the ledge you can do a get-up DED if you jump and input side-B as early as possible. The DED comes out before Roy even jumps, and because the move kills momentum he stays right at the floor level and can complete the DED there. Timing can be a little tricky to get it perfectly before jump (you can tell you got it right because the jump poof cloud doesn't animate), but it's a good mixup for ledge getups that has advantages compared to regular attack getup (which is easily readable, can be shielded and then grabbed out of). You can also do this interrupted jump getup to side-B using Blazer, which has a pretty decent range from the ledge and can be just as unexpected, also good for mixups. I actually learned about this at first from some folks who thought it was a whole new technique, turns out it's just that Smash mechanics have changed (since Brawl apparently, can't believe I missed it all this time).

Sorry if it sounds really really dumb, but I mostly played Roy in Melee and had no idea this was now possible, and admittedly haven't seen many Roy mains on Youtube using it, so I figured I'd mention it in case it's useful to anybody.

Glad to have you on board! Hopefully you enjoy your time here, especially as we continue to push our character forward.

Were you the one who commented on one of my videos suggesting wavebounce DED? At the time, I felt it was too difficult to implement, but I'm loving these new controls I'm getting adjusted to and putting good use to it. I had no clue I could wavebounce it easily with the cstick until I revisted an old video (I think My Smash Corner) and listened to them covering controls on their b-reverse and wavebounce video.

I'm enjoying the reversed momentum a lot, I'll lab it more soon. I'll also try the get-up DED, I do get-up counter sometimes but this is something I'm pretty interested in. I'll look into Blazer and see if it starts grounded so that I can do this instant getup to kill with Blazer, rather than what I usually do where I do Blazer after a neutral getup.

I'm really enjoying wavebounce DED to mix up my landings, approach and often bait someone to see how they react, to fade back if I read an option and punish it if the read works (being safe otherwise), punish landings, and edgeguard. My applications so far are pretty basic, but I have some ideas and I'll keep working on it.

 

[The Merc]

http://buffpuff.club/

But nobody likes Puff

Sometimes I get too caught up in the idea of a potential buffed Roy, and the types of buffs Roy needs, and then I can't even work with the tools in front of me. It hurts my mindset, it hurts my growth, and it hurts how I treat the community.

We just need to continue pushing forward with the tools we have, and continue exploring the unexplored, since all of us have a lot to implement and improve on. There's so many things I need to do before my Roy is even close to optimized. We just need to keep playing and playing, leveling up, working with the tools in front of us.

All of my losses can be attributed to me being outplayed and approaching situations incorrectly, and I always know what to work on. So, buffs or not, I'll keep pushing forward.

I know. But there is no harm in dreaming

 

[Fledge]

Glad to have you on board! Hopefully you enjoy your time here, especially as we continue to push our character forward.

Thanks for the warm welcome! It could've been me who commented on your videos about wavebounce DED, I've been scouring Youtube to find different Roy playstyles and learn/incorporate techniques from different players and have left comments on some videos about its advantages (your "Double Dairius" combo is really cool, catchy name to boot, and I've been incorporating it into my gameplay). I pretty much use the wavebounce DED for all the reasons you enumerated and just general spacing/mindgames/mixups, it feels great to pull it off.

I'm pretty sure the interrupted jump ledge getup Blazer also does come out at the ground-level, and IIRC the timing is more forgiving with Blazer than the DED. Hope some folks find it useful, I'm always scouring the net for different ways to expand Roy's repertoire and if it helps other Roy mains that would be great, I'd love to see Roy get better tournament showings so the world knows his true might! :D

 

[Lady Kuki]

But nobody likes Puff



I know. But there is no harm in dreaming

If you REALLY want Roy buffs that badly, get a group of Roy mains and write up an essay discussing Roy's flaws and compare him to other characters in his category that seemingly have it better. Especially mention how he's the worst DLC character and FE character in the game, and that he needs to not be bad in a game for once. (I don't believe this phrase 100%, but it is a common complaint I see.) I'm starting to see more and more top low tier mains write buff analyses on their character. If you are looking for Roy to be buffed, I suggest you guys start making such an analysis now. Post it on Reddit and other Smash related places so where people could see.

In the meantime, focus on your skill. This game is super balanced, even if Roy does seem under tuned compared to other characters. I truly believe that with enough determination and skill, you can get anywhere with almost every character. Sol is a very dedicated Mac main; I read on his little Mac buff analysis that even if he weren't buffed, he'd main him regardless. That is the mentality that all low tier mains should have, especially in a balanced game such as this one.

 

[EnGarde]

Found a pair of new Roy and Roy Koopa memes to share. Well, they're new to me at least lol.

Spoiler: Roy and Roy Koopa

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Thanks for the warm welcome! It could've been me who commented on your videos about wavebounce DED, I've been scouring Youtube to find different Roy playstyles and learn/incorporate techniques from different players and have left comments on some videos about its advantages (your "Double Dairius" combo is really cool, catchy name to boot, and I've been incorporating it into my gameplay). I pretty much use the wavebounce DED for all the reasons you enumerated and just general spacing/mindgames/mixups, it feels great to pull it off.

I'm pretty sure the interrupted jump ledge getup Blazer also does come out at the ground-level, and IIRC the timing is more forgiving with Blazer than the DED. Hope some folks find it useful, I'm always scouring the net for different ways to expand Roy's repertoire and if it helps other Roy mains that would be great, I'd love to see Roy get better tournament showings so the world knows his true might! :D

Yeah, one thing that stood out was the forgiving timing. I rag on aerial Blazer a lot, but I need to remember that it's somewhat like OoS Blazer in Melee: While it doesn't kill, it comes out fast, can beat opposing pressure, and it's not something to risk when I'm at kill percent, but eating a hit otherwise isn't a big deal. Unfortunately, the specials always start in the air, with DED and Counter floating down enough to make their startup deceptive. Flare Blade keeps our jump momentum going, and Blazer always starts in the air, it seems.

Tfw I'm too scrubby to implement my own combos I'll find out how to reliably footstool one of these days, I can never really find discussion or info on how to reliably footstool, or if there's controls that make it easier. Ryo makes it look so easy....

By the way, do you play online?

If you REALLY want Roy buffs that badly, get a group of Roy mains and write up an essay discussing Roy's flaws and compare him to other characters in his category that seemingly have it better. Especially mention how he's the worst DLC character and FE character in the game, and that he needs to not be bad in a game for once. (I don't believe this phrase 100%, but it is a common complaint I see.) I'm starting to see more and more top low tier mains write buff analysi on their character. If you are looking for Roy to be buffed, I suggest you guys start making such an analysis now. Post it on Reddit and other Smash related places so where people could see.

In the meantime, focus on your skill. This game is super balanced, even if Roy does seem under tuned compared to other characters. I truly believe that with enough determination and skill, you can get anywhere with almost every character. Sol is a very dedicated Mac main; I read on his little Mac buff analysis that even if he weren't buffed, he'd main him regardless. That is the mentality that all low tier mains should have, especially in a balanced game such as this one.

Do you have links to these buff analyses? It's something I may look into when I'm ready to handle it. Things didn't go well the last time I looked too much into Roy complaints, so I'll have to be ready if I approach this again and know when to take breaks or back out for a while.

And yeah, the focus on skill is super important. If we really push Roy's options and his potential as a character AND get buffs on top of that? That's a scary idea. Much morseso than people picking up the buffs from scratch or from their Summer Roys, or just waiting for them. We don't exactly know what buffs he'd get, so if we work on mitigating weaknesses and advancing strengths, we'd either cover blind spots that remain post-buffs or get things that are even more disgusting after buffs. For example, if he doesn't get much versus shield and we strengthen our approach against shield, we'll cover a blind spot that we'd neglect if we just waited for buffs. If up air gets more hitstun and we've been working on up air combos, we'd have our foundation plus room to find more. This would make post-buff combos and confirms scarier and easier to find. This can happen with anything, so hard work on any areas that pop up is key.

 

[Lady Kuki]

Yeah, one thing that stood out was the forgiving timing. I rag on aerial Blazer a lot, but I need to remember that it's somewhat like OoS Blazer in Melee: While it doesn't kill, it comes out fast, can beat opposing pressure, and it's not something to risk when I'm at kill percent, but eating a hit otherwise isn't a big deal. Unfortunately, the specials always start in the air, with DED and Counter floating down enough to make their startup deceptive. Flare Blade keeps our jump momentum going, and Blazer always starts in the air, it seems.

Tfw I'm too scrubby to implement my own combos I'll find out how to reliably footstool one of these days, I can never really find discussion or info on how to reliably footstool, or if there's controls that make it easier. Ryo makes it look so easy....

By the way, do you play online?



Do you have links to these buff analyses? It's something I may look into when I'm ready to handle it. Things didn't go well the last time I looked too much into Roy complaints, so I'll have to be ready if I approach this again and know when to take breaks or back out for a while.

And yeah, the focus on skill is super important. If we really push Roy's options and his potential as a character AND get buffs on top of that? That's a scary idea. Much morseso than people picking up the buffs from scratch or from their Summer Roys, or just waiting for them. We don't exactly know what buffs he'd get, so if we work on mitigating weaknesses and advancing strengths, we'd either cover blind spots that remain post-buffs or get things that are even more disgusting after buffs. For example, if he doesn't get much versus shield and we strengthen our approach against shield, we'll cover a blind spot that we'd neglect if we just waited for buffs. If up air gets more hitstun and we've been working on up air combos, we'd have our foundation plus room to find more. This would make post-buff combos and confirms scarier and easier to find. This can happen with anything, so hard work on any areas that pop up is key.

Here's a few:
Sol's Mac Analysis: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4fdxn6/sols_list_of_competitive_mac_fixes/
Dunnobro's Duck Hunt Analysis Analysis: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4cn8r6/duck_hunt_patch_suggestions_tip_he_doesnt_need/
Masonomace's Shulk Analysis: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4chsnc/my_shulk_patch_suggestions/
And our good ol' buddy RDR7 who visited Roy's social a few days ago. He posted his analysis on Jigglypuff: http://smashboards.com/threads/how-i-would-improve-jigglypuff-buffthepuff.433669/

Anyway, yeah. I forgot to mention that I especially wanted to work more on my skill as a player, because I went to a tournament a few days ago and got destroyed again. I realized that I'm not getting destroyed because of the character I'm using; I'm getting destroyed because there are players who are much better than I. It has driven me to care only about my skill as a player and not the tier of my character. I only would freak out over Roy if Smash 4 had no patches, or if Smash 4 were Brawl or Melee levels of balanced.

 

[LonkQ]

Honestly, I wish I was getting destroyed. I find myself being able to hold my own against the most of the higher placing people in my locals, but I end up tilting a lot. I tend to always lose after going 1-1 and with a lead in the third game. I really need to work on the emotional aspect of the game since I get so nervous when I'm near the top.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Honestly, I wish I was getting destroyed. I find myself being able to hold my own against the most of the higher placing people in my locals, but I end up tilting a lot. I tend to always lose after going 1-1 and with a lead in the third game. I really need to work on the emotional aspect of the game since I get so nervous when I'm near the top.

It happened to me a lot a week ago because of that, I'm going to play on Anther's a lot more so that I can feel out Best of 3's more often, have the incentive to win for ranking, and have the pressure of winning or losing. In healthy doses, of course.

Once Q2 season starts, and/or once the next patch rolls around, that's when I'm going to heavily consider starting an Anther's series on my channel. Roy mains will have another Roy to look at and study, and I'll be able to ask around for critique. If I give myself incentive to win, while at the same time losing pretty much nothing if I lose, it'll put me in those in-game win/lose pressure situations I need more.

Here's a few:
Sol's Mac Analysis: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4fdxn6/sols_list_of_competitive_mac_fixes/
Dunnobro's Duck Hunt Analysis Analysis: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4cn8r6/duck_hunt_patch_suggestions_tip_he_doesnt_need/
Masonomace's Shulk Analysis: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4chsnc/my_shulk_patch_suggestions/
And our good ol' buddy RDR7 who visited Roy's social a few days ago. He posted his analysis on Jigglypuff: http://smashboards.com/threads/how-i-would-improve-jigglypuff-buffthepuff.433669/

Anyway, yeah. I forgot to mention that I especially wanted to work more on my skill as a player, because I went to a tournament a few days ago and got destroyed again. I realized that I'm not getting destroyed because of the character I'm using; I'm getting destroyed because there are players who are much better than I. It has driven me to care only about my skill as a player and not the tier of my character. I only would freak out over Roy if Smash 4 had no patches, or if Smash 4 were Brawl or Melee levels of balanced.

I read all of them. It's intimidating how well these players are able to understand the nuances of frame data and document so well how it interacts within the game, while I barely understand how frame data works and what frame interactions happen when Roy loses in certain situations. I don't feel like I'd be suited for a similar project, these names are actually known and know infinitely more about the game than I do.

I don't know how I'd start, I'm not a name by any means, and I don't feel I could do a half-decent job at this. Because of that, I'll just focus on my gameplay for now, and I'd be willing to contribute if someone suited for the job were to take it on.

 

[Lady Kuki]

It happened to me a lot a week ago because of that, I'm going to play on Anther's a lot more so that I can feel out Best of 3's more often, have the incentive to win for ranking, and have the pressure of winning or losing. In healthy doses, of course.

Once Q2 season starts, and/or once the next patch rolls around, that's when I'm going to heavily consider starting an Anther's series on my channel. Roy mains will have another Roy to look at and study, and I'll be able to ask around for critique. If I give myself incentive to win, while at the same time losing pretty much nothing if I lose, it'll put me in those in-game win/lose pressure situations I need more.



I read all of them. It's intimidating how well these players are able to understand the nuances of frame data and document so well how it interacts within the game, while I barely understand how frame data works and what frame interactions happen when Roy loses in certain situations. I don't feel like I'd be suited for a similar project, these names are actually known and know infinitely more about the game than I do.

I'd be afraid of bringing something like this to reddit, because I think people there really don't want Roy to be better. I feel like they overall want him to be a scrub character or overhyped pick and not take any spotlight from Ike/Shulk/Marth or any other popular buffed swordsmen who aren't top tier but see a lot of use everywhere with a lot of people who feel they're underrated. It'd likely be a heavily-downvoted post, probably 67% upvoted at best, while I wouldn't be able to put the detail or information into it that would be needed to make it respectable on Smashboards either.

I don't know how I'd start, I'm not a name by any means, and I don't feel I could do a half-decent job at this. Because of that, I'll just focus on my gameplay for now, and I'd be willing to contribute if someone suited for the job were to take it on.

Well, if you yourself don't know the secrets behind frame data and how Roy interacts with every other character in the game, find people who know about this stuff. Find people who also want Roy to be buffed and are willing to help you with things such as frame data.

Also, about Reddit: Roy may not be as commonly requested for buffs as much as other characters are, but people do believe he needs buffs believe it or not. AceStar, a popular Roy detractor really thinks Roy needs buffs. Heck, I remember there was a thread a couple of weeks ago where we had put what characters we think needed buffs. I said Roy and explained my reasons. I got 20+ upvotes as a result, for a lot of people agreed with me. Trust me. Even though I do believe that many of Roy's detractors want him to remain "bad" and to remain a "worse Marth" (because the 14 year-old "Roy's bad in every game" joke is so funny amirite?), I'm sure Reddit and Smashboards would be appreciated to see a Roy buff analysis. Like I said, find people who are knowledgeable on frame data and Roy's flaws. Emphasize things like how Roy is seemingly outranged by many characters and has harder match ups with Luigi and Mario despite swordies usually having the advantage in the matchup. Talk about how his design is a weird cross between a fighter and a swordsman, and that he needs to have the frame data of either a fighter or a swordsman; nothing in between.

And for all of those thinking that I'm trying to bring negativity on the thread again, hear me out: People asked for Roy buffs and I'm telling them that getting together and writing an buff analysis for the character can help spread awareness of the character's flaws. If more people know about Roy's flaws, there will be a higher chance that he will be buffed. Sure, 1.1.5 may be the last patch, or the hypothetical patch 1.1.6 may not buff Roy at all, but if you were to write a buff analysis, at least you would feel more comfortable about him getting buffed, if he will get buffed at all, of course. You'll never know; we might get several patches after this, so it's best to not delay and get this analysis done as efficiently and as soon as possible.

Anyway, right now I'm just gonna work on my skill. While I think Roy buffs won't hurt at all, it's not like he's Zelda or Jiggly levels of bad. He can do a few things right at least. He just requires a lot more effort to do such things and if you are willing to put in that effort, you can make it work.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Well, if you yourself don't know the secrets behind frame data and how Roy interacts with every other character in the game, find people who know about this stuff. Find people who also want Roy to be buffed and are willing to help you with things such as frame data.

Also, about Reddit: Roy may not be as commonly requested for buffs as much as other characters are, but people do believe he needs buffs believe it or not. AceStar, a popular Roy detractor really thinks Roy needs buffs. Heck, I remember there was a thread a couple of weeks ago where we had put what characters we think needed buffs. I said Roy and explained my reasons. I got 20+ upvotes as a result, for a lot of people agreed with me. Trust me. Even though I do believe that many of Roy's detractors want him to remain "bad" and to remain a "worse Marth" (because the 14 year-old "Roy's bad in every game" joke is so funny amirite?), I'm sure Reddit and Smashboards would be appreciated to see a Roy buff analysis. Like I said, find people who are knowledgeable on frame data and Roy's flaws. Emphasize things like how Roy is seemingly outranged by many characters and has harder match ups with Luigi and Mario despite swordies usually having the advantage in the matchup. Talk about how his design is a weird cross between a fighter and a swordsman, and that he needs to have the frame data of either a fighter or a swordsman; nothing in between.

And for all of those thinking that I'm trying to bring negativity on the thread again, hear me out: People asked for Roy buffs and I'm telling them that getting together and writing an buff analysis for the character can help spread awareness of the character's flaws. If more people know about Roy's flaws, there will be a higher chance that he will be buffed. Sure, 1.1.5 may be the last patch, or the hypothetical patch 1.1.6 may not buff Roy at all, but if you were to write a buff analysis, at least you would feel more comfortable about him getting buffed, if he will get buffed at all, of course. You'll never know; we might get several patches after this, so it's best to not delay and get this analysis done as efficiently and as soon as possible.

Anyway, right now I'm just gonna work on my skill. While I think Roy buffs won't hurt at all, it's not like he's Zelda or Jiggly levels of bad. He can do a few things right at least. He just requires a lot more effort to do such things and if you are willing to put in that effort, you can make it work.

I do have one idea on who to approach, someone who might be down to lead the project and someone who is very knowledgeable on frame data and is respected in the community. A Roy main. I'll message them soon.

It's disheartening to hear how AceStar became a detractor. I haven't watched a lot of smashtubers in ages, but I remember how much he praised Roy on release. How bad is it, exactly? I couldn't really find him talking about Roy from a google search. If you don't want to bring it into the thread, my inbox is always open.

As for negativity, I edited out the reddit part of my post seconds after posting since I figured it'd bring a lot, and it didn't add much to my post. I couldn't figure a way to justify it, so I chopped it out in fear of bringing negativity or receiving backlash. That wasn't my intent, either, and I can't really justify posting it. So I apologize for any negative feelings it brought. You gave it a really good reply that helps me understand things a bit more and helps cut away a bit of inner negativity and fear, so it's not all bad. Again, I'm sorry about that.

 

[The Merc]

If you REALLY want Roy buffs that badly, get a group of Roy mains and write up an essay discussing Roy's flaws and compare him to other characters in his category that seemingly have it better. Especially mention how he's the worst DLC character and FE character in the game, and that he needs to not be bad in a game for once. (I don't believe this phrase 100%, but it is a common complaint I see.) I'm starting to see more and more top low tier mains write buff analyses on their character. If you are looking for Roy to be buffed, I suggest you guys start making such an analysis now. Post it on Reddit and other Smash related places so where people could see.

Yeah okay, I'll definitely do that as well (if my isn't trash compare to dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523 )
Though does anyone have a list of what Roy SHOULD have buff (not what we WANT buffed)?
Because there is a very fine line between the 2 and I personally think we need to focus on the buffs Roy needs to become better.
Also speaking of buff lists, is someone going to do the Roy's problems video?

I mean, I would but i don't have a capture card or anything.

In the meantime, focus on your skill. This game is super balanced, even if Roy does seem under tuned compared to other characters. I truly believe that with enough determination and skill, you can get anywhere with almost every character. Sol is a very dedicated Mac main; I read on his little Mac buff analysis that even if he weren't buffed, he'd main him regardless. That is the mentality that all low tier mains should have, especially in a balanced game such as this one.

You this reminds me of a match with a Mewtwo player (forgot what match) and they were saying how the Mewtwo had been playing him since basically release and he just developed his skills some much that when Mewtwo did get buffed, the player became a lot more scarier.

 

[apparently fuz]

This may seem a little brash, but I need some help formulating a non-biased opinion on the current viability of Roy. Where do you think he stands? The overarching consensus seems to be him lying in the lower tiers, perhaps rearing the bottom cluster of characters in the game. However, I can't help but notice that Roy players (understandably, that's their main) refute said point, but without much development or explanation on his tools, specs, or niches that prevent him from being cast aside as one of the worst in the game. Tell me, what are the strengths and weaknesses that Roy attains? Do they give him potential to reach the upper portions of the tier list? Or are his flaws too detrimental to make him a viable character?

 

[The Merc]

This may seem a little brash, but I need some help formulating a non-biased opinion on the current viability of Roy. Where do you think he stands? The overarching consensus seems to be him lying in the lower tiers, perhaps rearing the bottom cluster of characters in the game. However, I can't help but notice that Roy players (understandably, that's their main) refute said point, but without much development or explanation on his tools, specs, or niches that prevent him from being cast aside as one of the worst in the game. Tell me, what are the strengths and weaknesses that Roy attains? Do they give him potential to reach the upper portions of the tier list? Or are his flaws too detrimental to make him a viable character?

Well I'm not a personally player so don't take my word 100% but I personal think that Roy is definitely not top. He has the fundaments to take on Mid and high tier characters, But his problem is either he has flaws in specific areas that are hold him back or and what I think is the main problem, a lot of what Roy can do, other characters do better.

But that's just my 2 cents in a board view

 

[apparently fuz]

Well I'm not a personally player so don't take my word 100% but I personal think that Roy is definitely not top. He has the fundaments to take on Mid and high tier characters, But his problem is either he has flaws in specific areas that are hold him back or and what I think is the main problem, a lot of what Roy can do, other characters do better.

But that's just my 2 cents in a board view

Could you please elaborate on his 'flaws' and 'fundamentals'? What specifically does he do right in his kit, and where does he fall down in?

 

[The Merc]

Could you please elaborate on his 'flaws' and 'fundamentals'? What specifically does he do right in his kit, and where does he fall down in?

uh....

To be 100% honest, I don't really think i can. I'm only new to smash competitively. I mean, I can name a few of his flaws

Some of the mains ones are

- His damage out put is somewhat low compared to a number of other characters like him (i.e. Marth)

- The frame data on a few moves (not all) is a bit iffy and (again compare to Marth with his recents buffs) just isn't like others (His Fair is a really awkward move)

- While Roy does have combos, the are very read, DI and prediction heavy, so there not like "grab -> D-Throw -> free combo" like other characters

Uh, that's a few i can think of, but like i said, don't take my word 100% since I'm still a super noob and there are theory more personal players here that might give you a better understanding

 

[RDR7]

But nobody likes Puff



I know. But there is no harm in dreaming

I guess that makes me a nobody

Here's a few:
Sol's Mac Analysis: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4fdxn6/sols_list_of_competitive_mac_fixes/
Dunnobro's Duck Hunt Analysis Analysis: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4cn8r6/duck_hunt_patch_suggestions_tip_he_doesnt_need/
Masonomace's Shulk Analysis: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4chsnc/my_shulk_patch_suggestions/
And our good ol' buddy RDR7 who visited Roy's social a few days ago. He posted his analysis on Jigglypuff: http://smashboards.com/threads/how-i-would-improve-jigglypuff-buffthepuff.433669/

Anyway, yeah. I forgot to mention that I especially wanted to work more on my skill as a player, because I went to a tournament a few days ago and got destroyed again. I realized that I'm not getting destroyed because of the character I'm using; I'm getting destroyed because there are players who are much better than I. It has driven me to care only about my skill as a player and not the tier of my character. I only would freak out over Roy if Smash 4 had no patches, or if Smash 4 were Brawl or Melee levels of balanced.

And about my analysis. I encourage all of you to study with frame skipping! It really can show the design flaws or strong suits in your character. It helped me understand a lot more of what makes a move good and what makes a move bad. It also involved a lot of disappointment however I wasn't completely distraught as there were some fun parts to it. Personally I enjoyed studying my character's moveset and deciding what to buff and what to leave alone or just have some keen info in mind before I use that move. It's like making your own dream character. Hopefully the patches will make that dream into reality. The problem is it's just a dream, and as of now my character's patch history tells me that will most likely not happen. For the sake of confidence I'll keep hoping maybe someday I'll see a change next to my character in the patch notes. As for you guys, start frame skippin!
Here's a tutorial.
http://smashboards.com/threads/foxys-guide-to-testing-and-labbing.417822/

 

[LonkQ]

I wouldn't call myself a Roy pro, not even close, but I feel he's one of the weaker characters. Not to the point where I'd lump him with a character like Jigglypuff but he's got certain flaws that really hurt. Mediocre recovery is obvious, all he really has is Blazer and though it goes a surprising horizontal distance, your two viable options are to ledge snap or to just go and hit the guy going out to smack you. It's less effective against someone like Ike that can wait it out and the vertical distance leaves a lot to be desired. He has a lot of combo options, but the better ones are awkward to land. He's super susceptible to combos due to his physics, which sucks especially against characters that can kill off a grab. One problem I've had with Roy is fighting short characters. They're a bit easier to hit with Fthrow traps and strings for me, but they're so hard to combo. Non-tipper jab is hard to land, falling Uair and Nair are much less effective on them.

Out of all my Roy struggles, disadvantage has been the worst, while advantage has been up next. I haven't really had much trouble with his neutral, oddly enough. It's just the conversions that aren't enough. Low percent is easy, he gets fine enough damage there, it's higher percents that are troublesome since his kill combos involve either bad DI or a tipper Uair which is a pain to land. I listed a lot of disadvantages, I suppose the reason I don't see him at the absolute bottom is because I don't believe he's as flawed as someone like Zelda or Jigglypuff in terms of his moveset or mobility specs.

 

[Shaya]

I've made relatively extensive posts about Roy buff in here before.
I'm not a new-age social media ***** though... yet.
So I don't really get the relevance of needing some sort of proclamation on reddit for ideas to be relevant.

Roy may be in the lower regions of the cast, but at this stage it would be quite a large lower region. Probably a third of the cast with maybe 5ish characters noticeably worse/"bottom".

Roy would definitely like buffs. Some normalization things with what Marth got would be significant.
But I still rate his difficulties pretty high, the really good mobility specs tied to very awkward restrictions (aerial acceleration, dash to shield length, etc etc) which are probably intentional and at the same time not matched by any other character in the cast.

If you're playing Roy against Marth/other swordies often, you'll probably learn to recover better with him. Recovering high-ish is actually quite good, we also have instant ledge snaps with close up-bs, side-b with minor horizontal boosts, flare blade (or neutral b whatever it's called) as a dangerous trigger to attempt to breach. It's all about not being predictable and reacting to what your opponent does. If they run off stage, don't recover low - chances are they cannot cover you going high.

I'd say there's better intents involved with having people understand Roy better. The rhetoric that is building that he's bottom tier is pretty farfetched.
But IF HE IS bottom tier it's a matter of the entire cast being pushed up to his level. not that he was down there in the first place.

People need to get jabbed into blazer a few more times and then they'd probably think better of him. I'm getting good at reacting to them going high (which combos into blazer still - and is optimal spot for it actually to kill as early as possible) and further away in which you dash forward to cover landings. Understanding the nuances of DI and mixing up move usage so people are guessing which Di they should be doing results in goodness.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

This may seem a little brash, but I need some help formulating a non-biased opinion on the current viability of Roy. Where do you think he stands? The overarching consensus seems to be him lying in the lower tiers, perhaps rearing the bottom cluster of characters in the game. However, I can't help but notice that Roy players (understandably, that's their main) refute said point, but without much development or explanation on his tools, specs, or niches that prevent him from being cast aside as one of the worst in the game. Tell me, what are the strengths and weaknesses that Roy attains? Do they give him potential to reach the upper portions of the tier list? Or are his flaws too detrimental to make him a viable character?

I would like to discuss this further via inbox. A lot of users here are uncomfortable with said discussion being the focus of this thread, it's never had a positive history here and it's caused numerous problems. We don't really have a haven from the community's views on Roy and such, this is one of the few settings where we can unwind and focus on development for ourselves and our character without getting too caught up in the negativity or treated poorly. It's something I would like to personally discuss, but in a different setting. I would stress this being strictly limited to private chats or a group chat on the topic, if that's alright. It's not a topic that's healthy for this social, and one I'd like to avoid focus on here. I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong, but we've had new users randomly hop in here during heated periods from these discussions, and it's only happened during them. That's where the treated poorly part comes in. I will message you with my thoughts likely tonight.

I will get to other replies shortly, this is simply something I'd like to address before it gains more momentum. Honestly I wish I got to this sooner.

Yeah okay, I'll definitely do that as well (if my isn't trash compare to dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523 )
Though does anyone have a list of what Roy SHOULD have buff (not what we WANT buffed)?
Because there is a very fine line between the 2 and I personally think we need to focus on the buffs Roy needs to become better.
Also speaking of buff lists, is someone going to do the Roy's problems video?

I mean, I would but i don't have a capture card or anything.



You this reminds me of a match with a Mewtwo player (forgot what match) and they were saying how the Mewtwo had been playing him since basically release and he just developed his skills some much that when Mewtwo did get buffed, the player became a lot more scarier.

There is a solution to lack of a capture card, there's an in-game upload to YouTube feature for replays, with a handful of catches:

• Matches MUST be 3 minutes or less. You can sometimes get away with 3:19 or something if there's no sudden death.
• No custom stages or Miiverse.
• The music randomly cutting in and out for uploads is jarring, so whenever I have upload sessions, I turn the music setting off beforehand in Sound.

So if you're labbing or fetching an example, you can set the timer to 3 minutes.

If you catch one of Roy's issues in a match that's roughly 3 minutes or less, you can upload it to YouTube.

I use a dump uploads account, and I just download the videos and edit them later for my main channel if I decide to use them.

We could create a specific thread for core issues and such, I think that's the best place to gather info and examples.

With my two cents, no options that create more binary or limited flowchart-y play should be considered. Improvements that encourage more general use of our kit, or more creative usage of options should be considered most. If we get a ding-dong (Roy would have a pretty big one) or similar option, that would make our play more linear and reward us incorrectly, even if it'd be beneficial overall. Fixes or improvements to tools that often fail or don't have much use, and changes that would improve our matchups across the board are the most important to consider. Roy is a glass cannon swordsman who controls the ground and is strongly rewarded for getting into an opponent's range, so changes that don't alter his design too much and reward him properly for his gameplan are what should be considered.

Ultimately, I think you should still aim to do whatever you can for a potential project. I'm considering whether I want to tackle this or not and exactly how much, because I'm heavily invested in weight loss and finding balance in my life. Smash is a hobby, and as it stands, I don't know if I'm investing too much or not. Even if neither of us makes the best writeup, it can still serve as a foundation for anything in the future.

 

[TheSpnBrm]

I've made relatively extensive posts about Roy buff in here before.
I'm not a new-age social media ***** though... yet.
So I don't really get the relevance of needing some sort of proclamation on reddit for ideas to be relevant.

Roy may be in the lower regions of the cast, but at this stage it would be quite a large lower region. Probably a third of the cast with maybe 5ish characters noticeably worse/"bottom".

Roy would definitely like buffs. Some normalization things with what Marth got would be significant.
But I still rate his difficulties pretty high, the really good mobility specs tied to very awkward restrictions (aerial acceleration, dash to shield length, etc etc) which are probably intentional and at the same time not matched by any other character in the cast.

If you're playing Roy against Marth/other swordies often, you'll probably learn to recover better with him. Recovering high-ish is actually quite good, we also have instant ledge snaps with close up-bs, side-b with minor horizontal boosts, flare blade (or neutral b whatever it's called) as a dangerous trigger to attempt to breach. It's all about not being predictable and reacting to what your opponent does. If they run off stage, don't recover low - chances are they cannot cover you going high.

I'd say there's better intents involved with having people understand Roy better. The rhetoric that is building that he's bottom tier is pretty farfetched.
But IF HE IS bottom tier it's a matter of the entire cast being pushed up to his level. not that he was down there in the first place.

People need to get jabbed into blazer a few more times and then they'd probably think better of him. I'm getting good at reacting to them going high (which combos into blazer still - and is optimal spot for it actually to kill as early as possible) and further away in which you dash forward to cover landings. Understanding the nuances of DI and mixing up move usage so people are guessing which Di they should be doing results in goodness.

I believe normalization would be the best course of action, I believe our areas of focus can be focused in couple of different directions based on what we really believe Roy should functioning as. I personally have always viewed him ideally to become "The Spacing players Rushdown Character", as I generally don't enjoy rush down but highly enjoy Roy play style.

With this being said I believe our this is what I look for in a Potent Roy Buff that focuses on normalizing him towards the ideal of his Rushdown spacer niche with a brief explanation.

Giving Roy a Foxtrot similar to that of Clouds and a slight run speed increase. (Probably .03 to .05 increase?)
(If Roy is going to remain a Rushdown Character while focusing on disjoints he must retain full control of his ground movement at all times, due to his grabs losing their effectiveness at higher percents, with this change Roy can stop with full control highlighting his fast paced play style and giving the player the chance to properly use their disjoint.)

Shaving 1-2 frame on start up and ending on his tilts.

Similar to patch 1.1.4 on Double Edged Dance these changes give Roy better highlights of his play style allowing him to out speed more characters when within range, properly rewarding him for closing the distance while still allowing for the same room to punish him should not space well.

My last change I would suggest would be giving slight shield push to the middle hitbox of his Ftilt.

This change to better reward the tight spacing Roy is required to fight at when wanting to play safe, note that all sweet spot would still retain their
current on shield properties.


I believe that you have the best knowledge of Frame data and one of the biggest voice we have on smash boards so I give you what I believe would be useful towards an analysis of Roy. Though this is a small explanation I believe it gets the point across but should I need to give a deeper reasoning behind my suggestions let me know and I'd be willing to message whoever happens to take on this role.

 

[The Merc]

There is a solution to lack of a capture card, there's an in-game upload to YouTube feature for replays, with a handful of catches:

• Matches MUST be 3 minutes or less. You can sometimes get away with 3:19 or something if there's no sudden death.
• No custom stages or Miiverse.
• The music randomly cutting in and out for uploads is jarring, so whenever I have upload sessions, I turn the music setting off beforehand in Sound.

So if you're labbing or fetching an example, you can set the timer to 3 minutes.

If you catch one of Roy's issues in a match that's roughly 3 minutes or less, you can upload it to YouTube.

I use a dump uploads account, and I just download the videos and edit them later for my main channel if I decide to use them.

We could create a specific thread for core issues and such, I think that's the best place to gather info and examples.

With my two cents, no options that create more binary or limited flowchart-y play should be considered. Improvements that encourage more general use of our kit, or more creative usage of options should be considered most. If we get a ding-dong (Roy would have a pretty big one) or similar option, that would make our play more linear and reward us incorrectly, even if it'd be beneficial overall. Fixes or improvements to tools that often fail or don't have much use, and changes that would improve our matchups across the board are the most important to consider. Roy is a glass cannon swordsman who controls the ground and is strongly rewarded for getting into an opponent's range, so changes that don't alter his design too much and reward him properly for his gameplan are what should be considered.

Ultimately, I think you should still aim to do whatever you can for a potential project. I'm considering whether I want to tackle this or not and exactly how much, because I'm heavily invested in weight loss and finding balance in my life. Smash is a hobby, and as it stands, I don't know if I'm investing too much or not. Even if neither of us makes the best writeup, it can still serve as a foundation for anything in the future.

Yeah I would do that.....

If I could actually upload videos to Youtube. But unfortunately I can't.

Also what do you mean "no options that create more binary or limited flowchart-y play"?

Either way, while I can't make the video, I am definitely more than happy to try and write up a Roy analysis (with some help from you guys on what I should focus on) and post on Smashboards for you guys to share

I guess that makes me a nobody

Aw man, I'm sorry . I didn't mean to be hurtful. I have a friend over at the Pitthread Koiba who is a huge Puff fan and everytime I mention not liking Puff, she gets mad

I should have made it the more accurate statement "I don't like Puff". Seriously, I have a serious hate for Puff. At least Smash Puff. I love anime Poke Puff

 

[RDR7]

Yeah I would do that.....

If I could actually upload videos to Youtube. But unfortunately I can't.

Also what do you mean "no options that create more binary or limited flowchart-y play"?

Either way, while I can't make the video, I am definitely more than happy to try and write up a Roy analysis (with some help from you guys on what I should focus on) and post on Smashboards for you guys to share



Aw man, I'm sorry . I didn't mean to be hurtful. I have a friend over at the Pitthread Koiba who is a huge Puff fan and everytime I mention not liking Puff, she gets mad

I should have made it the more accurate statement "I don't like Puff". Seriously, I have a serious hate for Puff. At least Smash Puff. I love anime Poke Puff

Nah no need to be sorry, I respect your opinion. I guess you like the sassy character but don't like the campy baiting playstyle that comes with her? o:

 

[The Merc]

Nah no need to be sorry, I respect your opinion. I guess you like the sassy character but don't like the campy baiting playstyle that comes with her? o:

Yeah, I'm a huge fan of sassy/ smart*** characters (why I love Deadpool and Iron Man)

I honestly love her in anime Pokemon. In smash bros, it's no so much her campy style (hell I play Link and Robin, the camping kings) it just that I can never kill her, she never dies and her stupid *** wonky hitboxes that are huge for her size and how long the linger for. It's just so ****ing annoying

Oh, and you can't edge guard her.

 

[Koiba]

I love anime Poke Puff

Ok :^)))))

 

[The Merc]

View attachment 104542

Ok :^)))))

They're just so delicious XD

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I will discuss and go into buff ideas here despite my general standpoint, but I want to make it clear that I don't want to get too caught up in dreaming of buffs; I'd like to simply lay any groundwork for a potential buff analysis, if we decide to pull one together.

Yeah I would do that.....

If I could actually upload videos to Youtube. But unfortunately I can't.

Also what do you mean "no options that create more binary or limited flowchart-y play"?

Either way, while I can't make the video, I am definitely more than happy to try and write up a Roy analysis (with some help from you guys on what I should focus on) and post on Smashboards for you guys to share



Aw man, I'm sorry . I didn't mean to be hurtful. I have a friend over at the Pitthread Koiba who is a huge Puff fan and everytime I mention not liking Puff, she gets mad

I should have made it the more accurate statement "I don't like Puff". Seriously, I have a serious hate for Puff. At least Smash Puff. I love anime Poke Puff

Unfortunately, as someone who was a previous Ike main and sometimes used DK in tournament before Roy, I feel like their combo throw buffs ultimately made them play in a more linear fashion. Ike's play pretty much equates to dthrow or uthrow to fair and sometimes nair a jarring amount, it's almost all I see at lower percents and it's admittedly what has to be done to play him optimally. I use them when I play Ike in friendlies, because why not? They're free tools that benefit the character, I'd be dumb and overly-prideful to neglect them. DK's ding dong is really prevalent in his play and makes grabs much more valuable than the rest of his kit a lot of the time. These changes made how they play more limited and took some of the creativity out of playing them, in my opinion.
One thing I admire about Roy's design is that you constantly have to weigh and consider how much reward jab, fair, uair, fthrow, dthrow, nair, and single-hits reward you, and act accordingly. You have some moves like bair and dtilt that occasionally create followups with diligent use, and sourspots can sometimes create followups. You have to be creative at all points with your punish game and work hard to optimize, and good reads and frame traps are our best tools. If anything, I would prefer changes that polish his punish game up, where everything works at least just a bit better and fails less, rather than one or two new god-tier options. Overall fundamental building will give me similar things, which is why I dig it so much.

If Roy got a down or back throw that would combo into practically anything from 0 to 120 or something like that, then it would make Roy's optimal play to constantly go for grabs and abuse them. It would make his play more binary (limited to few options) or limit it to a small flowchart. The For Glory Roys who dthrow -> Blazer constantly no matter what would reign king. It would be unhealthy to our meta and use of the character, and his gameplan would flow less naturally and have a more fatty feel to it. We'd be swarmed more with players who want to abuse easy options to win. Plus with Roy's mediocre grab range, we're better off with general kit improvements. Roy could have one of the most beautiful smash designs imo if he was designed just a bit better, but patches can fix that, and maybe Roy's just underdeveloped and my work will create that design. I'll do everything I can over time to develop, it's not something that'll just come if I wish hard enough, and it's not good to linger in certain areas too long.

Even if I feel that way now, I wouldn't complain about this kind of buff if we did get it. I am overall overwhelmingly positive about the Ike buffs, even with my gripes about throwcharts. I'm grateful for anything noteworthy we'd get in the future.

I have a private writeup from last night that you might like, I'll send it your way soon.

I dig the new name, by the way.

I believe normalization would be the best course of action, I believe our areas of focus can be focused in couple of different directions based on what we really believe Roy should functioning as. I personally have always viewed him ideally to become "The Spacing players Rushdown Character", as I generally don't enjoy rush down but highly enjoy Roy play style.

With this being said I believe our this is what I look for in a Potent Roy Buff that focuses on normalizing him towards the ideal of his Rushdown spacer niche with a brief explanation.

Giving Roy a Foxtrot similar to that of Clouds and a slight run speed increase. (Probably .03 to .05 increase?)
(If Roy is going to remain a Rushdown Character while focusing on disjoints he must retain full control of his ground movement at all times, due to his grabs losing their effectiveness at higher percents, with this change Roy can stop with full control highlighting his fast paced play style and giving the player the chance to properly use their disjoint.)

Shaving 1-2 frame on start up and ending on his tilts.

Similar to patch 1.1.4 on Double Edged Dance these changes give Roy better highlights of his play style allowing him to out speed more characters when within range, properly rewarding him for closing the distance while still allowing for the same room to punish him should not space well.

My last change I would suggest would be giving slight shield push to the middle hitbox of his Ftilt.

This change to better reward the tight spacing Roy is required to fight at when wanting to play safe, note that all sweet spot would still retain their
current on shield properties.


I believe that you have the best knowledge of Frame data and one of the biggest voice we have on smash boards so I give you what I believe would be useful towards an analysis of Roy. Though this is a small explanation I believe it gets the point across but should I need to give a deeper reasoning behind my suggestions let me know and I'd be willing to message whoever happens to take on this role.

Yeah, we have similar opinions on how balance should work. Imo, the key thing would be shaving the fat off Roy's design and making it feel more realized. I like the idea of Cloud's foxtrot most, it wouldn't really polarize the other side of the MU for our good matchups, and it'd give us something pretty good in general that would help. It'd make sense, and it'd look beautiful to see in actual play. I think it'd give the community a lot of new focus on Roy, and a good amount of people would simply try Roy again or even start to invest in him again, in a more healthy way than something like a potent throw buff.

 

[TheSpnBrm]

Yeah, we have similar opinions on how balance should work. Imo, the key thing would be shaving the fat off Roy's design and making it feel more realized. I like the idea of Cloud's foxtrot most, it wouldn't really polarize the other side of the MU for our good matchups, and it'd give us something pretty good in general that would help. It'd make sense, and it'd look beautiful to see in actual play. I think it'd give the community a lot of new focus on Roy, and a good amount of people would simply try Roy again or even start to invest in him again, in a more healthy way than something like a potent throw buff.

Indeed *Nods* The goal behind my buffs ideas mainly push him toward two things one filling that niche of a disjointed rush down character and also giving him a playstyle that is a shout out to Melee which would hype a lot of players, myself included as a PM player. While I don't bank on buffs being the end all be all for us, I do believe we should be vocal about our character and how to refine him should the balance team be looking for ideas on how to change Roy without polarizing him. You never know whose lurking over our input.

 

[CloudStrife4Life]

I'm so happy he is back

whos not I mean come on roys a better clone than friken lucina

 

[Tahu Mata]

.....Well then, guys. It's been exactly 20 days since I was last here.

Sorry about that. Discord has completely taken over me.

 

[Valzy]

whos not I mean come on roys a better clone than friken lucina

Lucina is nothing at all like Marth