Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[TumblrFamous]

If people can please stop putting words in my mouth, I don't think Ridley is at all a bad choice, but I don't think ZSS was at all a bad choice to add in either. If I could have it my way, I'd put Ridley in Brawl and then ZSS in Brawl as well, or in the next game.

All I was saying was, and what I want to stress, is that ZSS's inclusion over Ridley is explainable. She was added as an extension of Samus, under the same slot that they share. It's not fair at all, in fact it's insulting, but Sakurai just found it more necessary to give Samus her Zero Suit, and in a probable case easier. Never did I once say Ridley was unimportant to the series. I said ZSS outprioritizes Ridley since she is the main hero, albeit only shown in one Metroid game, but was shared in one slot.

I don't think I was being quite clear. In fact, I don't think I'm being clear now, which for some could just be the understatement of the century, but I'd be happy to try and explain myself again.

EDIT: Can I also say that Ridley is essential to Smash? ZSS was not, but she was put in anyway. We would have been perfectly fine without ZSS.

 

[Johnknight1]

And all Mewtwo needed was a few buffs as to not be pathetically lobbed around like a pinball so easily.

Mewtwo IMO would be best served with a Pit-esk retooling of his moveset. He really just needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You realize Samus has been out of her suit in other games besides Zero Mission and is one of the more interesting and notable parts of that character, right? Now I ask if YOU have played Metroid.

That's opinion

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Spoiler

Time to find MatPat13

 

[?????????????]

You realize Samus has been out of her suit in other games besides Zero Mission and is one of the more interesting and notable parts of that character, right? Now I ask if YOU have played Metroid.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. What interesting and notable parts of that character? It's the same exact character.

If you're talking about weapons and playstyle, ZSS is pretty much a downgrade. In every way. Why do you think her Final Smash is turning back into Power Suit Samus? It's a reward (at least, that was the intention).

The only notable difference is sex appeal.

 

[BKupa666]

There are dozens of different reasons ZSS could have been added to Brawl instead of Ridley that have absolutely nothing to do with how important they are to the Metroid series.

 

[Espio264]

I'm curious. When the day comes and we finally know the entire roster, part of what you thought is dead on, and the other parts couldn't be farther from the truth, do you tell yourselves you knew it all along, or do you smile and happily await what we've been given?

In an unrelated matter, would a headless character fit in with Smash? A horseless headless character of course...

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So I'll take that as a no...that explains so much. Why not leave the discussion of Metroid to the people that actually play the games?

Right because somebody played Awakening and I didn't that makes them know more about Chrom's uniqueness than I do. Because we don't have the internet for this kind of stuff. Guess I'm not qualified to predict any Pokemon past Gen 2 or Takamaru. At least I knew Suitless Samus was in more than one game

DD played Tales and I didn't. I guess I have no right to say he's not more important than F-Zero, another game I haven't played.

It was never used in the same context as it was for Zero Mission. In Zero Mission it's a fast but weak form you use to sneak your way through the Space Pirate mothership, in every other game it's just her clothing and never used in any sort of combat ever, not even being able to play as Samus in said form either. And interesting and notable? The only thing interesting and notable is how much it shows off her ***.

And please, don't play sarcasm with me when you yourself haven't played Metroid.

You don't' have to be playable and do **** in every game to be important and notable. And that wasn't sarcasm, that was a legitimate question. I'm not saying she was more notable than Ridley, but enough to get in the game. I still however think she was a more ideal addition. Sometimes you can get in for just being more ideal.

Bowser wasn't in 64. Guess he wasn't essential. Oh wait, he was in Melee. As was Peach, Zelda, Falco, Ganondorf, Young Link, etc... Diddy Kong must not have been essential because he wasn't in Melee. Oh wait. He's in Brawl.

I don't know how you justify that. He was clearly essential in Melee and not Smash 64. Those both had very different Roster forms.

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo IMO would be best served with a Pit-esk retooling of his moveset. He really just needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

I would agree on certain aspects (such as Confusion and Disable), but bear in mind that the only changes we see of Pit so far is turning the HIYAYAYAYA into a new Raptor Boost, replacing Mirror Shield with a shield that covers both sides of him, and single direction flight as opposed to "infinite" flight.

That's not that much of a change tbh.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I'm curious. When the day comes and we finally know the entire roster, part of what you thought is dead on, and the other parts couldn't be farther from the truth, do you tell yourselves you knew it all along, or do you smile and happily await what we've been given?

In an unrelated matter, would a headless character fit in with Smash? A horseless headless character of course...

Does Super Meat Boy have a head? Hhhmmmmmm.....

 

[Johnknight1]

I get you like ZSS Noah, but great Scott, to say Ridley isn't important is crazy.

And truly, the only "necessary" characters are probably the original 8 (minus Fox) plus the likes of (characters like) Luigi, Bowser, Peach, Wario, and Zelda.

We passed "necessary" a long time ago. Now we're trying to get all the last Nintendo All-Stars that could be awesome as playable characters playable (people argue these are characters like Toad, Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, *insert some Pokémon here* and Miis), as well as lesser known Nintendo characters (pretty much every other character else suggested here, lol) as newcomers.

 

[N3ON]

I don't need to play Metroid to know that Ridley is the most iconic and basically the Bowser of the series, but that doesn't mean he's more essential to Smash than ZSS clearly.
We need to clarify that there is a difference between who is absolutely needed for Smash, and who clearly should be in it. God forbid somebody thinks ZSS is a better and more ideal addition then our almighty Ridley. Which one of those people is Sakura, btw.

Wait, wait. ZSS... absolutely needed for Smash? "Essential" even? Dear gawd no.

ZSS is an occasionally focused on aspect of Samus, that pre-Brawl had very little actual prominence in the series. Samus herself is essential to Smash, but in her most iconic form. ZSS is... ok, she's pretty well known at this point, and she's not going anywhere, but all that's needed of essential characters is their most iconic and enduring forms, stuff like Sheik and ZSS while nice additions are hardly crucial to the character, they could still exist totally independently of them and be fine additions, it wouldn't be like they were missing an indispensable aspect.

Ridley isn't in at the top of the list when it comes to overall necessity in Smash, I mean it took getting to the fourth game before he was considered "essential" but at this point, and for Metroid, he is the clear secondary character, not an alternate form of the protagonist. Is Sheik more necessary than Ganondorf? Apparently, according to you. Even though it's usual, Sakurai doesn't always add characters in order of merit, especially when it comes to transformation characters.

The point is fairly moot though, as it seems Sakurai doesn't even view Ridley as feasible, so really we can keep debating, but obviously the character Sakurai sees as feasible is going to be included before the one he doesn't. ZSS's role in Metroid, especially before Brawl, is absolutely minuscule compared to Ridley's. It really is like saying Tanooki Mario is more "essential" than Bowser.

 

[Johnknight1]

I would agree on certain aspects (such as Confusion and Disable), but bear in mind that the only changes we see of Pit so far is turning the HIYAYAYAYA into a new Raptor Boost, replacing Mirror Shield with a shield that covers both sides of him, and single direction flight as opposed to "infinite" flight.

That's not that much of a change tbh.

Pit's aerials seem vastly retooled, as do his tilts. That's a lot of changing.

I also think a smash attack or two of his might be changed or at least function differently.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I get you like ZSS Noah, but great Scott, to say Ridley isn't important is crazy.

When the holy mother of god did I say Ridley is NOT important or even mention that I liked ZSS!? I said Ridley is not a character that HAS to be playable. He should be, but he doesn't HAVE to be.

 

[MargnetMan23]

I would agree on certain aspects (such as Confusion and Disable), but bear in mind that the only changes we see of Pit so far is turning the HIYAYAYAYA into a new Raptor Boost, replacing Mirror Shield with a shield that covers both sides of him, and single direction flight as opposed to "infinite" flight.

That's not that much of a change tbh.

Personally I hope they just buff confusion somehow. Its CONCEPT of psychically lifting people and **** is just perfect =P

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I get you like ZSS Noah, but great Scott, to say Ridley isn't important is crazy.

And truly, the only "necessary" characters are probably the original 8 (minus Fox) plus the likes of (characters like) Luigi, Bowser, Peach, Wario, and Zelda.

We passed "necessary" a long time ago. Now we're trying to get all the last Nintendo All-Stars that could be awesome as playable characters playable (people argue these are characters like Toad, Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, *insert some Pokémon here* and Miis), as well as lesser known Nintendo characters (pretty much every other character else suggested here, lol) as newcomers.

I don't see how Mii is an All-Star. But I don't get why he/she gets so much hate

 

[MargnetMan23]

I don't see how Mii is an All-Star. But I don't get why he/she gets so much hate

Because we have no self esteem =P

 

[SuperBrawler]

I hope Smash never ends. (It probably will) There will be more and more Nintendo All-Stars every generation.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Right because somebody played Awakening and I didn't that makes them know more about Chrom's uniqueness than I do. Because we don't have the internet for this kind of stuff. Guess I'm not qualified to predict any Pokemon past Gen 2 or Takamaru. At least I knew Suitless Samus was in more than one game

DD played Tales and I didn't. I guess I have no right to say he's not more important than F-Zero, another game I haven't played.

You don't' have to be playable and do **** in every game to be important and notable. And that wasn't sarcasm, that was a legitimate question. I'm not saying she was more notable than Ridley, but enough to get in the game. I still however think she was a more ideal addition. Sometimes you can get in for just being more ideal.

What does any of this have to do with the fact that you're arguing in favor of something you know little to nothing about? And if that was a legitimate question while I literally explained a full part from Zero Mission, I'd seriously hate to see your sarcasm.

She only got into the game as basically and add-on for Samus, nothing more nothing less. Because that's what she is...just an add-on to Samus. Why? Because SHE IS SAMUS! It's not a real newcomer and was never intended to be.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Wait, wait. ZSS... absolutely needed for Smash? "Essential" even? Dear gawd no.

ZSS is an occasionally focused on aspect of Samus, that pre-Brawl had very little actual prominence in the series. Samus herself is essential to Smash, but in her most iconic form. ZSS is... ok, she's pretty well known at this point, and she's not going anywhere, but all that's needed of essential characters is their most iconic and enduring forms, stuff like Sheik and ZSS while nice additions are hardly crucial to the character, they could still exist totally independently of them and be fine additions, it wouldn't be like they were missing an indispensable aspect.

Ridley isn't in at the top of the list when it comes to overall necessity in Smash, I mean it took getting to the fourth game before he was considered "essential" but at this point, and for Metroid, he is the clear secondary character, not an alternate form of the protagonist. Is Sheik more necessary than Ganondorf? Apparently, according to you. Even though it's usual, Sakurai doesn't always add characters in order of merit, especially when it comes to transformation characters.

The point is fairly moot though, as it seems Sakurai doesn't even view Ridley as feasible, so really we can keep debating, but obviously the character Sakurai sees as feasible is going to be included before the one he doesn't. ZSS's role in Metroid, especially before Brawl, is absolutely minuscule compared to Ridley's. It really is like saying Tanooki Mario is more "essential" than Bowser.

The point I was trying to make is that you can do with out Ridley and that ZSS is a more ideal choice in my opinion. I'm only comparing them by who got in and who didn't. Not by who's more iconic. Although you could argue Suitless Samus is more iconic for being Samus and a recurring protagonist, while not essential for being Samus. Although I have to say comparing her to Tanooki Mario is not a good comparison.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Because we have no self esteem =P

Lol, (yes, I used a whole post, just to say lol)

EDIT:Now that I think about I used this post to say lol, post a funny pic in response to me describing what I I just said. I also edited it to explain everything I did in the post.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Wait, wait. ZSS... absolutely needed for Smash? "Essential" even? Dear gawd no.

ZSS is an occasionally focused on aspect of Samus, that pre-Brawl had very little actual prominence in the series. Samus herself is essential to Smash, but in her most iconic form. ZSS is... ok, she's pretty well known at this point, and she's not going anywhere, but all that's needed of essential characters is their most iconic and enduring forms, stuff like Sheik and ZSS while nice additions are hardly crucial to the character, they could still exist totally independently of them and be fine additions, it wouldn't be like they were missing an indispensable aspect.

Ridley isn't in at the top of the list when it comes to overall necessity in Smash, I mean it took getting to the fourth game before he was considered "essential" but at this point, and for Metroid, he is the clear secondary character, not an alternate form of the protagonist. Is Sheik more necessary than Ganondorf? Apparently, according to you. Even though it's usual, Sakurai doesn't always add characters in order of merit, especially when it comes to transformation characters.

The point is fairly moot though, as it seems Sakurai doesn't even view Ridley as feasible, so really we can keep debating, but obviously the character Sakurai sees as feasible is going to be included before the one he doesn't. ZSS's role in Metroid, especially before Brawl, is absolutely minuscule compared to Ridley's. It really is like saying Tanooki Mario is more "essential" than Bowser.

If anyone even cares, this is kinda what I was trying to get across. ZSS is not essential, Ridley is to a certain extent. And ZSS just simply got in, I don't know how else to explain it. She should never outprioritize Ridley, since he is clearly more important than just ZSS alone. But for some odd reason, ZSS outprioritized him in Brawl, she got in over him. To be frank, she pales in comparison to Ridley in general, just in Brawl she had more priority.

 

[Deleted member]

Personally I hope they just buff confusion somehow. Its CONCEPT of psychically lifting people and **** is just perfect =P

You should be able to just keep spinning them right 'round baby right 'round before letting go.

Pit's aerials seem vastly retooled, as do his tilts. That's a lot of changing.

I also think a smash attack or two of his might be changed or at least function differently.

By vastly retooled, you mean "buffed", right? Already said Mewtwo should have buffs.

I also don't condone in hypotheticals in arguments about confirmed information, so I can't count potential move changes until they happen in regards to your idea on Smash Attacks.

 

[Hotfeet444]

The point I was trying to make is that you can do with out Ridley and that ZSS is a more ideal choice in my opinion. I'm only comparing them by who got in and who didn't. Not by who's more iconic. Although you could argue Suitless Samus is more iconic for being Samus and a recurring protagonist, while not essential for being Samus. Although I have to say comparing her to Tanooki Mario is not a good comparison.

If we're going by that logic, Pichu is the more ideal choice than Genesect.

 

[Johnknight1]

I don't see how Mii is an All-Star. But I don't get why he/she gets so much hate

The way I view "All-Star" is like a character you think of right away.

In basketball, the players that come to mind are usually among the best players, like LeBron James, James Harden, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, and Tim Duncan.

I view it the same way with All-Stars. When I think of Nintendo, one of the first characters I think of is Miis, as do many, many, many gamers. If they didn't, hundreds of millions of Mii-related games wouldn't have sold. Now I'm not saying Miis sell those games (they don't), but man, after playing those games with Miis, they are thus remembered, and thus, are All-Stars.

However, the thing in smash unlike basketball is the view of whether or not you are an "All-Star" isn't so much performance-based as it is... well... perhaps taste-based on games, as well as based on how we perceive such characters.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

no, i want some heavy female characters

In Brawl the only heavyweight female was Samus.

Samus is lonely.

Pls give samus friends

I give you Impa.

 

[TumblrFamous]

She only got into the game as basically and add-on for Samus, nothing more nothing less. Because that's what she is...just an add-on to Samus. Why? Because SHE IS SAMUS! It's not a real newcomer and was never intended to be.

I agree with this statement, she was just another part of Samus added on, and it is why she got in over Ridley, simply because she was an add-on of Samus (that's what I was trying to say). Although she was technically showcased as a newcomer, so... she is, but she isn't.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Why are we all arguing about ZSS! She's already in. She's just as viable as Sheik (a main character in different clothes!)
Ridley is the next choice! So talk about Ridley and not ZSS! What the hell am I doing, I'm arguing against the Smash Bros community, it's like talking to a Brick wall.

 

[Johnknight1]

By vastly retooled, you mean "buffed", right? Already said Mewtwo should have buffs.

For Mewtwo and Pit I mean mostly changed. Mewtwo IMO shouldn't use any physical attack that doesn't have some sort of psychic method of dealing damage.

I also don't condone in hypotheticals in arguments about confirmed information, so I can't count potential move changes until they happen in regards to your idea on Smash Attacks.

Well that's based on my observations because it appears Pit's whole basis from Brawl is gone, and instead we're left with a much different and more finer tuned character than ever before. I can't imagine the disjointed aerials he had coming back without either new effects, ways of dealing damage, vast changes in how it works, or animations. I gotta say that is the case with a lot of Pit's moves IMO.

Honestly after seeing the few changes to Pit we saw, I gotta say I'm more hyped for Pit than I ever was for him in Brawl.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What does any of this have to do with the fact that you're arguing in favor of something you know little to nothing about? And if that was a legitimate question while I literally explained a full part from Zero Mission, I'd seriously hate to see your sarcasm.

Because this stuff isn't on the internet for us to research, clearly I couldn't possibly know ANYTHING about something I haven't played, I shouldn't even know who Mother Brain or Anthony is because I haven't played Metroid. (Now I'm being sarcastic.)

She only got into the game as basically and add-on for Samus, nothing more nothing less.

Well, she clearly had more diversity and the only thing they shared was that you had to obtain her through Samus's Final Smash.

Why? Because SHE IS SAMUS! It's not a real newcomer and was never intended to be.

So Dr. Mario & Squirtle aren't real newcomers because they are the same person/attached to another character. Sakurai said there were 39 characters, where the hell did the
other 4 come from?

 

[Hotfeet444]

I agree with this statement, she was just another part of Samus added on, and it is why she got in over Ridley, simply because she was an add-on of Samus (that's what I was trying to say). Although she was technically showcased as a newcomer, so... she is, but she isn't.

Sheik on her own was showcased as a veteran separate to Zelda, but we all know that's not true.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If we're going by that logic, Pichu is the more ideal choice than Genesect.

Because.......................why??? Pichu is a clone of Pikachu. Are you implying that I think ZSS is more ideal because she's the same person and also Pichu is not the same person???.......................I need some aspirin.

 

[MargnetMan23]

For Mewtwo and Pit I mean mostly changed. Mewtwo IMO shouldn't use any physical attack that doesn't have some sort of psychic method of dealing damage.

I liked Mewtwo in melee and if he comes back I doubt your wish would be granted but that would be ****ing awesome =P

 

[TumblrFamous]

Sheik on her own was showcased as a veteran separate to Zelda, but we all know that's not true.

Yeah. Zelda wasn't even shown as a playable character in the first trailer at E3. But still, they had Newcomer above her name in the trailer, so I count her. Granted, she's not a real newcomer, but she is one in Sakurai's eyes. Even in the Event Matches she has Samus and ZSS separate from each other for the all-star matches.

Do you at least understand what I was trying to say? Because I'm not good with getting points across.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Because this stuff isn't on the internet for us to research, clearly I couldn't possibly know ANYTHING about something I haven't played, I shouldn't even know who Mother Brain or Anthony is because I haven't played Metroid. (Now I'm being sarcastic.)

You obviously don't research enough if you think Samus in a change of clothes is more essential than Ridley.

Well, she clearly had more diversity and the only thing they shared was that you had to obtain her through Samus's Final Smash.

It doesn't change the fact that it's Samus in the end.

So Dr. Mario & Squirtle aren't real newcomers because they are the same person/attached to another character. Sakurai said there were 39 characters, where the hell did the
other 4 come from?

He counts the transformations as separate characters, when they essentially aren't. Not to mention Dr. Mario is actually a separate character, unlike the other four.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Why can't you all shut up about ZSS and Ridley. ZSS is practically a shoo in anyway. Ridley too. The End. Bye, I hope you guys learn something.

 

[N3ON]

The point I was trying to make is that you can do with out Ridley and that ZSS is a more ideal choice in my opinion.

So basically, because you prefer ZSS, she's necessary, and because Ridley is less-than-ideal in your mind, he's unnecessary.

I forgot you spoke for everyone.

I'm only comparing them by who got in and who didn't. Not by who's more iconic.

Great. By that logic Dr. Mario is the fifth most "essential" Mario character. By that logic a one-time transformation of a secondary character is more important than the overarching villain of a series. By that logic a popular but totally unremarkable Pokemon is more important than 149 others. By that logic, Snake is an addition "essential" to a Nintendo cross-over. There are many different circumstances, there's no universal rule of inclusion for everyone (other than the very most basic prerequisites). If a transformation gets in before the villain of a series, it doesn't mean that transformation is undeniably the second-most important aspect of that series, because she's not.

Although you could argue Suitless Samus is more iconic for being Samus and a recurring protagonist, while not essential for being Samus.

Does that make Bee Mario more iconic than Bowser? If so, does that mean Bee Mario should be added first?

Although I have to say comparing her to Tanooki Mario is not a good comparison.

Why not? They're both transformative aspects of a character. They both could be potential transformations, they both offer new attacks and a different moveset. One Samus loses her suit, the other Mario gains a suit. If anything Tanooki Mario is more iconic than ZSS was pre-Brawl.

 

[MargnetMan23]

Why can't you all shut up about ZSS and Ridley. ZSS is practically a shoo in anyway. Ridley too. The End. Bye, I hope you guys learn something.

But... MUH HOLES! D=

 

[ChronoBound]

I hope Smash never ends. (It probably will) There will be more and more Nintendo All-Stars every generation.

We're scrapping the bottom of the barrel with this game it seems.

The Wii/DS generation gave rise to prominence for series like Animal Crossing, Wii Fit, and Wii Sports/Play/Party. Punch-Out also had a very successful resurrection title.

I think the time has finally come for characters like Toad (New Super Mario Bros. Wii, New Super Mario Bros. U, Super Mario 3D World), and Palutena was the darling of Kid Icarus's resurrection (though it will probably end up being the last game in that series for a long time). Ridley also makes perfect sense to anyone that understands Metroid and the Western fanbase.

Throw in two well-known guest characters (Mega Man and Pac-Man), and Sakurai had enough newcomers with starpower left to justify this game.

Sidenote:

Those who worry about K. Rool not being in Tropical Freeze. It wouldn't surprise me if we face Vi-King K. Rool as a bonus, or maybe the main villain. Retro has been listening to fan suggestions afterall.

 

[Johnknight1]

Sheik on her own was showcased as a veteran separate to Zelda, but we all know that's not true.

Actually Sheik was revealed before Zelda for Melee, herpa derpa.

Zelda was the only one of the 14 Melee starters not shown off as playable in the launch trailer or in the early demos back in 2001.

Zelda wasn't shown until a few weeks before Melee launched if Japan if my memory serves me right.