Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[8-peacock-8]

What do you mean by the new Pokemon Trainer?

Turning into other Pokemon via illusions.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Turning into other Pokemon via illusions.

Problem with that is that Zoroark just mimics the appearance of other Pokemon with Illusion. He can't use any of their moves, and he reverts to normal when hit.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Problem with that is that Zoroark just mimics the appearance of other Pokemon with Illusion. He can't use any of their moves, and he reverts to normal when hit.

He asked why he's similar so i said why.

never said Zoroark will have their attacks.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Keep in mind that the rules of Pokemon don't apply to Super Smash Bros. Meaning that Illusion could function more like Transform and can copy the appearance and moves of the opponent, but with limitations. In the case of Super Smash Bros, not copying the weight and power of the opponent but copies everything else and similar to the games fades once a hit is recieved.

 

[Deleted member]

While the abilities and moves don't follow the same rules, they still have the same premise.

Rest, despite not healing Jigglypuff, and instead causing a surge of energy within it, still has Jigglypuff falling asleep (you know, RESTING).
Even Fly has Charizard flying upwards, despite not being "true" flight.
Illusion by definition is something that is non-existant but looks as if it exists. Being able to actually copy moves defeats the purpose of an illusion.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Pichu could still injure itself when it used it's electric attacks.

 

[Arcadenik]

Problem with that is that Zoroark just mimics the appearance of other Pokemon with Illusion. He can't use any of their moves, and he reverts to normal when hit.

Other Pokemon? Then I hope Zoroark randomly "transforms" into Meowth, Gardevoir, and other popular non-Legendary, non-Starter Pokemon who we know will never be playable in Smash on their own. That way, we could be able to play them through Zoroark.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Zoroark was capable of mimicking the capabilities of Entei, Suicune, and Raikou in the movie using illusions, so it's not too far off that Zoroark in Super Smash Bros would do something similar. Like I stated, the attacks wouldn't be exactly the same, and the attacks will have the same power and properties regardless of what Zoroark turns into. But of course being an illusion, it would be similar cosmetically.

 

[Deleted member]

Mimic, yes. But no actually COPY the attacks.

Which is the issue. Let's have this scenario:
Zoroark uses Illusion to appear as Mario.
Zoroark uses Fireball.
Fireball does nothing but APPEAR to throw a fireball. It does no damage nor does it actually hit the opponent.

That's what an illusion is. It appears to be real, but it's fake.

Alternate scenario:
Zoroark uses Illusion to appear as Kirby.
Zoroark uses Kirby's neutral combo.
It does nothing. (Or, it shows Kirby's, but still has the same hitbox and statistic's as Zoroark's, whatever it may be.)

 

[Arcadenik]

It doesn't have to be exactly the same as in the Pokemon games. Let's just make Zoroark the Shang Tsung of Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Hence I'm

Spoiler

slightly but not extremely

mad that a charatcer like Sheik with no relevance at all would still be in Smash and not King K.Rool. I'd be equally mad if we'd see the return of Captain Ganondorf, and we don't see Mewtwo back. And Ike would even be cut. If stupid choices like that happen, I probably won't buy a Wii U.

Spoiler

Unless the gameplay is awesome, and I mean really awesome.

I personally consider Sheik, along with Marth, C.Falcon, G&W, and the Ice Climbers to be Smash Bros. unique characters. Simply because they are characters that have in a way become a part of the franchise as their movepools and popularity as characters originated from the series. Taking them out now, would be like taking out Mitsurugi in SC, or Sagat or Blanka in SF, or Makoto or Taokaka in BlazBlue. They are, in a way, iconic representations of what Smash Bros is, without needing to be the main characters. Sure C.Falcon has his own very popular series, but really, the Falcon Punch is 100% Super Smash Bros.


I'll be honest with you, after some thought, I would much rather see Smash4 get a lot more cuts and replacements for the sake of a fresher roster with newer faces. As long as the Staple characters stay in, which will definitely be the case:

But if Ike, Toon Link, Diddy Kong, Lucas, Pokemon Trainer, Falco, Wolf, ROB, Lucario, Bowser, Ganon, Peach and even Sonic and Snake all got replaced by other characters, I don't think I would care so much anymore.

I know I'm in the minority when I say I would be OK, with 50-60% of the cast getting scratched out for new faces. I really, ultimately wouldn't mind what they put in as long as it was interesting, after all I'm not playing Smash for the characters as much as I'm playing it because it's a fun game. I would much rather see a balanced roster that fulfills the usual fighting game archetypes in a balanced way, and also adds unique characters into the mix, rather than the Clones'R'Us that were Melee and Brawl (sure a couple characters with similar play-styles that have some variation are OK, but with some diversity as Samus is to Zelda for example, not Fox to Falco).

I mean, we have a bunch of those archetypes in Smash already (Shotokan: Mario/Luigi, Ranged: Samus/Link/Ness, Trap Layers: Snake, Hit and Run: Marth, Dual Character: Ice Climbers, Transormers: Pkmn Trainer /Zelda, Close Range Choker: Sheik/Fox/C.Falcon, Joke: Wario/G&W, etc...), but are missing quite a few, where's my heavy weight Grappler a la Zangeif/Iron Tager/Potemkin (well, I suppose Dedede sorta fills that role), and my counter heavy character like Baiken/Hakumen, or my stance fighter like Voldo/Mitsurugi. Anyway, I think I made my point.

Personally, I favor newcomers that can bring interesting fighting style to the mix over fanboy wet dreams.

However, I feel a balanced Roster is not something I should worry about seeing as Namco is behind the development and they're very experienced with fighters as it is, after all the Tekken and Soul Calibur series are well renowned.

Anyway, just my two cents, this would make future installments less predictable and more exciting in the hopes that your favorite old school might show up once again, but also allow for more diversity across games, while still letting the old games retain their value without making future installments an "upgrade" to the last. But that's just me.

The same goes for Chrom, who seems to be more of an Ike retread. Zoroark and Chrom seemed to be too similar to Lucario and Ike to really take off. Game Freak and Intelligent Systems should be bolder next time for their next big Pokemon and lord.

Expecting Japanese companies to actually try something original... Seriously, Nintendo is like the exception. Japanese media tends to be nothing but overdone cliches and repeats of previous successes with small variations in the usual formula.

Really, tell me. How much has the Anime industry changed in the past decade? Sure, you have your unique gems, but they are either hit or miss in regard to popularity/sales. Your generic Shounen Battle Manga about friendship or typical Ecchi Harem anime where the main girl dashes of to school with toast in her mouth will still be much more well received. Japanese people tend to be very "status quo," attempts at uniqueness aren't generally well received. Hell, the same can be said for the west as well, just look how people are receiving DmC. So, don't expect IS or GF to change their approach any time soon. Both FE and Pokemon are series of cliches (albeit FE to a much lesser extent).

If Mewtwo is in the next movie with Genesect, Genesect's popularity is going to be riding a Mewtwo-powered rocket.

Don't you think maybe it's too late for that? Do you really think that the popularity of a character from here till release will increase his chances? Hell, character popularity from announce day to release will have less of an impact than character popularity from Brawl's development days. Remember, a lot of character didn't make Melee or Brawl due to time constraints. If the rumors that the roster is mostly finished are true, Genesect could singlehandedly become the MOST popular Pokemon ever, and it wouldn't mean anything really.

 

[BKupa666]

I'm thrilled that an openness to chopping 50-60% of Brawl's roster is a minority opinion that will not actually find its way into the final game.

At least IMO, the beauty of Smash among other fighters is its use of characters not to fill roles, but instead to create awesome crossover matchups between Nintendo All-Stars that would never exist elsewhere.

 

[Deleted member]

It doesn't have to be exactly the same as in the Pokemon games. Let's just make Zoroark the Shang Tsung of Smash.

It's not so much as making "exactly the same as in the Pokemon games" as it is not defeating the purpose of what an illusion is.

It's like people don't even know the DEFINITION of an illusion.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'm thrilled that an openness to chopping 50-60% of Brawl's roster is a minority opinion that will not actually find its way into the final game.

Let's face it, cutting half the roster would probably be the worst idea at this point. I mean, Mewtwo already got a lot of flack for being absent. Imagine if you applied something like that and times it by 18. My lord Sakurai and the fans will have a bloody onslaught.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm thrilled that an openness to chopping 50-60% of Brawl's roster is a hopeless minority opinion that will not actually find its way into the final game.

Well, think about it, it would certainly allow for a lot of the characters people want, while still keeping the roster at a reasonable size. It would allow for the removal of many clones, and also allow for a very balanced roster. Also, as I said before, it would allow for the Smash franchise to expand far beyond 4-5 games into future generations without much of a hitch, and it would make DLC additions much more exciting, and future rosters much less predictable/more fun.

I don't understand why Nintendo fans are always so opposed to the idea of seeing cuts (if you could explain this to me, I'd very much appreciate it). Keep in mind. This is not anything new. Many fighting game franchises go this route when their rosters become cumbersome (Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, etc...), especially the All Star Fighters (see Marvel vs Capcom series).

I'd much rather see a well balanced game than one with 100 characters that all fight the same (see Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3). Protip, one has more lasting appeal than the other.

However, don't fret. I'm neither proposing this will happen, nor am I saying that I'm going to push for it, therefore don't bother arguing against it, as I refuse. I'm simply saying that were it to happen, I would be fine with it, especially since the Staple characters will always stay in (It's like the Ryu, Ken, Chun-Li part of the cast). Outside of the original 12 + a handful of Melee & Brawl staples, imo, everyone else is very disposable.

 

[Deleted member]

Cutting half of the roster is unacceptable in my eyes.

I would skip the game if they did that.

Also, most fans of said "clone" characters would rather have their clone character in than an unique one to replace said character. Smash has always emphasized characters from Nintendo history over unique characters.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Well, think about it, it would certainly allow for a lot of the characters people want, while still keeping the roster at a reasonable size. It would allow for the removal of many clones, and also allow for a very balanced roster. Also, as I said before, it would allow for the Smash franchise to expand far beyond 4-5 games into future generations without much of a hitch, and it would make DLC additions much more exciting, and future rosters much less predictable/more fun.

I don't understand why Nintendo fans are always so opposed to the idea of seeing cuts (if you could explain this to me, I'd very much appreciate it). Keep in mind. This is not anything new. Many fighting game franchises go this route when their rosters become cumbersome (Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, etc...), especially the All Star Fighters (see Marvel vs Capcom series).

I'd much rather see a well balanced game than one with 100 characters that all fight the same (see Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3). Protip, one has more lasting appeal than the other.

However, don't fret. I'm neither proposing this will happen, nor am I saying that I'm going to push for it, therefore don't bother arguing against it, as I refuse. I'm simply saying that were it to happen, I would be fine with it, especially since the Staple characters will always stay in (It's like the Ryu, Ken, Chun-Li part of the cast). Outside of the original 12 + a handful of Melee & Brawl staples, imo, everyone else is very disposable.

Thing is with SSB is that you also have some casual fans, who probably wouldn't understand why a character such as toon link, a character that they love to play and has been in 2 games would be cut and then see guys such as Shulk or Saki, who they probably don't know, so you would lose an entire fan base

 

[N3ON]

I think K. Rool and Little Mac have good shots at being in the debut trailer, however, I think its:
Ridley>K. Rool
Takamaru>Little Mac

Ah, I didn't know you meant for the debut trailer, I thought it was just general likelihood. In that case, I agree Mewtwo and K. Rool aren't the most likely, both of them are IMO better off as unlockables (though K. Rool could go either way - but I agree that he's unlikely for the trailer). I also feel Ridley would be a better unlockable, but as this point he'd bring so much hype to the game, and is one of the last truly important characters left, so I would bet that if included, he'd be a starter, if just for promotional purposes.

My bets for debut trailer likelihood are:
Palutena
Ridley
Takamaru/Little Mac (only one - I'd give the edge to Takamaru)
and Megaman (or somehow another new 3rd party)

I also think if we get a new starter Mario character, they'll be shown during the debut trailer, though that's just a guess.

I disagree. I figure if they are going to do third party characters at all, one will be shown in the first trailer. It's not as clear cut this time, and there is a very good possibility they wont happen.

By no means did I mean to imply that I thought Megaman, or any third party, was more likely to be revealed after the initial trailer, just that it could be a possibility that, especially if we get two new 3rd parties, one might not get announced until later (debates over if/how many new third parties we get aside).

Personally I don't think it's the more likely option, I agree, but if we hypothetically did get two new third parties, it's possible that Sakurai might want to unveil the more "surprising" (aka not Megaman) one first in the trailer, and wait for Megaman's character reveal.

My bad, I should've been more clear. I definitely think it's way more likely third-party will have a presence in the initial trailer than not. And it will probably be Megaman, but a "surprise" 3rd party IMO can't be discounted entirely.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Again, Mewtwo alone caused backlash from being missing. So not expecting a huge outburst out of half the roster being cut is foolish.

 

[Deleted member]

Again, Mewtwo alone caused backlash from being missing. So not expecting a huge outburst out of half the roster being cut is foolish.

I suppose, I just find it curious how fans of other fighting games don't cause such a hissy fit over cuts. Whereas Nintendo fans feel the world is ending just because Roy didn't get in.

Forget about cutting 50% of the roster, that was just me expressing my personal attitude towards the roster itself as a fan of other fighting games as well. I just want to know why people are so opposed against cuts over all, on characters that could very well be replaced, if only temporarily. I feel that "all or nothing" attitude might eventually be Smash Bros.' own undoing.

If characters like Toon Link, Lucario, Wolf, Falco, or Lucas were replaced, it shouldn't matter so much. Especially, if it means a new fresh face either from the same franchise or not, I don't see why it's so bad.

I dunno, it's just you see it so often in other fighting games, I really don't see the big deal. I think it's worse that a character NEVER makes the cut because there is not enough room/etc... Than, your favorite character didn't return for this game. I mean, if the non-CENTRAL characters get cut, you can always pick up one of the new-comers. I mean, part of having a new game is trying out new characters, especially if the tier-lists change radically. Your old fave might not be as good as he used to. This happened to Fox and C.Falcon fans from Melee to Brawl.

So instead of cluttering the roster with soon to be irrelevant characters in their respective franchises, why not allow the Roster representation to evolve some with their franchises? Change is a natural part of life after all, and people have to learn to accept it.

You can always go back and play Melee, or 64 or Brawl and enjoy them for what they were worth. The Central representation will always represent the All-Star Cast. Outside of them, I don't think it's so bad that Toon Link or so gets cut.

If you couldn't tell, I'm one of those that didn't care for Roy or Mewtwo getting cut. I bit surprised on Mewtwo's end, but everyone else from Doc to Pichu to Roy was expected on my end.

 

[Reyson]

The main difference between cutting characters in Smash vs cutting them from most fighting games is that the Smash characters already have a huge fanbase as it is. Why people got all mad about Roy and Mewtwo is beyond me though, they got a lot of their (lasting) fame from SSBM.
You pointed out Marvel Vs Capcom, but when it became clear that Megaman wasn't in MvC3, the fans screamed bloody murder. It was as if not including him in that game meant that the franchise itself was dead.

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo was plenty famous before Melee. It's why he was in it to begin with.

You want to talk characters that got fame solely from Smash, then talk Captain Falcon.

 

[FlareHabanero]

To be fair though, not including Capcom's mascot in a Capcom crossover is always bizarre. It would be like Super Smash Bros. without Mario, or Sega All-stars without Sonic.

This especially noticeable when the vs. Capcom games get stuff like Roll, Zero, Tron Bonne, and a freaking Servbot, but Mega Man becomes absent for no reason. It seems the trend has notably started after Marvel vs. Capcom 2 in particular.

 

[BKupa666]

Well, think about it, it would certainly allow for a lot of the characters people want, while still keeping the roster at a reasonable size. It would allow for the removal of many clones, and also allow for a very balanced roster. Also, as I said before, it would allow for the Smash franchise to expand far beyond 4-5 games into future generations without much of a hitch, and it would make DLC additions much more exciting, and future rosters much less predictable/more fun.

I don't understand why Nintendo fans are always so opposed to the idea of seeing cuts (if you could explain this to me, I'd very much appreciate it). Keep in mind. This is not anything new. Many fighting game franchises go this route when their rosters become cumbersome (Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, etc...), especially the All Star Fighters (see Marvel vs Capcom series).

I'd much rather see a well balanced game than one with 100 characters that all fight the same (see Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3). Protip, one has more lasting appeal than the other.

However, don't fret. I'm neither proposing this will happen, nor am I saying that I'm going to push for it, therefore don't bother arguing against it, as I refuse. I'm simply saying that were it to happen, I would be fine with it, especially since the Staple characters will always stay in (It's like the Ryu, Ken, Chun-Li part of the cast). Outside of the original 12 + a handful of Melee & Brawl staples, imo, everyone else is very disposable.

I am very prepared to face cuts from Brawl, because it's clear characters aren't just given a free pass because they were popular in a previous game. If people expect all 39 Brawl characters to return unscathed, I think they may be in for a rude awakening. To dispose of characters who don't fit a playstyle role, however, is to shun a large portion of the audience who does not care about such trivialities. They play Smash because they love the fact that they can FALCON PUNCH a Pikachu in the face, or pit villains against heroes for once, not because a character fills some groundbreaking new playstyle role.

And I very much expect this approach to result in Smash being a finite series. Sakurai has even supported this through his interviews, claiming that "a limited number of characters are entitled to be playable" rather than that slots are essentially revolving doors. Is this a more suitable approach than to swap in characters and prolong the series' lifespan? It could be considered arguable...but not by many.

I hope my previous post didn't come off as too snippy, since cuts in general are well worthy of evaluation...just not at the expense of Bowser and the like.

 

[Deleted member]

This especially noticeable when the vs. Capcom games get stuff like Roll, Zero, Tron Bonne, and a freaking Servbot, but not Mega Man.

Except that in every vs. Capcom title that had Roll and Servbot, Mega Man was there.

Quite literally, the only vs. Capcom games out of all of them that don't feature any form of Mega Man at all are:

Marvel vs. Capcom 3/Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 (though Zero and Tron Bonne were playable and X was an alternate costume of Zero)

Capcom vs. SNK: Millennium Fight 2000 (though in reality, the only reason it's called "Capcom vs. SNK" and not "Street Fighter vs. SNK" is because of Morrigan)

Capcom vs. SNK 2 (though again, it's dominated by Street Fighter characters aside from Morrigan and Kyosuke from Rival Schools (which is in the same universe as Street Fighter))

SNK vs. Capcom: The Match of the Millenium (which AGAIN is dominated by Street Fighter with the exception of 3 Darkstalkers characters)

SNK vs. Capcom: SVC Chaos (which, ONCE AGAIN is dominated by Street Fighter, save for Tessa from Red Earth, Demitri from Darkstalkers, Firebrand (as Red Arremer), and Zero in his Mega Man Zero appearance. So yeah, there's at least SOMETHING from Mega Man here.)


That's only 5 (6 if Ultimate is counted) out of who knows how many, and only 1 (2 if Ulitmate is counted) are a big deal for him to be excluded.

 

[Starphoenix]

I think that if Waddle Dee gets in Smash and Toad didn't... what do you think might happen? I mean, Waddle Dee is part of King Dedede's moveset and yet more people are betting on Waddle Dee getting in Smash whereas Toad is part of Peach's moveset and yet more people are doubtful of Toad getting in Smash because of that. And there's the whole generic argument. So, Waddle Dee, a common enemy from the Kirby games, gets in Smash but Toad, a common NPC from the Mario games, didn't?

Just going to reach back and comment on this post real quick. First off, Bandana Dee is a darker, burnt orange than the common Waddle Dee's lighter orange, and he is slightly larger. One needs only look at the menu screen of Kirby's Dream Collection to notice that. Plus, the hats help set him apart. Secondly, it would be no different than having the common R.O.B enemies in Subspace Emissary, and having the playable R.O.B.

The difference between Toad and Waddle Dee right now is people see Waddle Dee as more capable to fight, whereas a lot of people question what kind of a moveset Toad would have. Does it make the argument valid? Not necessarily, but from what I have seen that is what the issue with Toad boils down to.

If Mewtwo is in the next movie with Genesect, Genesect's popularity is going to be riding a Mewtwo-powered rocket.

I would not mind this.

I'm thrilled that an openness to chopping 50-60% of Brawl's roster is a minority opinion that will not actually find its way into the final game.

At least IMO, the beauty of Smash among other fighters is its use of characters not to fill roles, but instead to create awesome crossover matchups between Nintendo All-Stars that would never exist elsewhere.

The moment someone can name ten valid characters that deserve to be in Super Smash Bros, without Google, can make a valid argument to cut characters.

 

[Deleted member]

- Ridley
- King K. Rool
- Mewtwo
- Mii
- Mega Man
- Toad
- Little Mac
- Roy
- Dixie Kong
- Palutena

The latter three are a little more shaky in regards to being deserving characters, but I definitely think that the first seven should absolutely be in. Then again, I don't consider characters deserving very easily.

(and this is without Google)

 

[Reyson]

Mewtwo was plenty famous before Melee. It's why he was in it to begin with.

You want to talk characters that got fame solely from Smash, then talk Captain Falcon.

That's what the "lasting" was meant for. Mewtwo rode on the popularity of the movie but I don't think he would still be popular if it wasn't for him making it to Melee. He'd just be one of the handful of characters that got a movie.
Cpt. Falcon represents the F-Zero franchise, Mewtwo/Roy had other characters representing theirs.

 

[Deleted member]

It doesn't matter whether the series "has other characters representing". That is irrelevant and is pulling at straws to make an argument.
Captain Falcon's "lasting" popularity is only due to his appearance in Smash. Had he not been in the series, I heavily doubt anyone would be supporting him at this point. This is incomparable to Mewtwo, who was heavily supported before his Smash debut.

As for Mewtwo, Mewtwo would be plenty famous even without being in Smash. He's not #2 of IGN's Pokemon list due to Melee, you know. Nor was he #10 on Japan's pre-Unova Pokemon list because of Smash (because Lucario and Jigglypuff aren't within the Top 10).
Melee also did not influence him being on a Boeing 747 alongside Mew. Nor did it influence him being on a coin for Niue.

By your logic, Jigglypuff should go since she "rode the popularity of the anime" but would not be as popular today if not for being in Smash. Also, she is unneeded since well, Pikachu represents the series already.

 

[Reyson]

It doesn't matter whether the series "has other characters representing". That is irrelevant and is pulling at straws to make an argument.
Captain Falcon's "lasting" popularity is only due to his appearance in Smash. Had he not been in the series, I heavily doubt anyone would be supporting him at this point. This is incomparable to Mewtwo, who was heavily supported before his Smash debut.

As for Mewtwo, Mewtwo would be plenty famous even without being in Smash. He's not #2 of IGN's Pokemon list due to Melee, you know. Nor was he #10 on Japan's pre-Unova Pokemon list because of Smash (because Lucario and Jigglypuff aren't within the Top 10).
Melee also did not influence him being on a Boeing 747 alongside Mew. Nor did it influence him being on a coin for Niue.

By your logic, Jigglypuff should go since she "rode the popularity of the anime" but would not be as popular today if not for being in Smash. Also, she is unneeded since well, Pikachu represents the series already.

Just because you say something is irrelevant doesn't make it so, atleast try to motivate why it would be. A character is easier to remove when there are others to fill in the role to represent a franchise, you'd pretty much be saying that the franchise has become too unimportant to have in the game.
You're saying that it would give a similar effect if say Olimar got scrapped vs replaced by the Pikmin3 lead?

Considering which characters that are now considered to be likely additions, I think Cpt. Falcon and F-Zero would've definitely have had a big enough resumé to make it in, even now. That is if he hadn't already been added in Melee or Brawl because of the popularity of F-Zero X and GX respectively.

As for the poll, I'm assuming you checked with everyone who voted to ask whether they meant the Mewtwo from Red/Blue or if SSBM helped them pick for Mewtwo? Seems like a pretty bold statement to say SSBM had nothing to do with it. Considering Mewtwo was one of the last pokemon you catch in those games, there's hardly the same attachment as there is with the starters.

As for being painted on the plane, there's also Clefairy, Snorlax, Psyduck, Bulbasaur,... on the plane, what's your point?

I've said that Mewtwo remained popular much longer due to being in Smash, yet most of what you say basicly comes down to "well he was popular around the time his movie came out", no ****ing ****!

You should also stop trying to act like I said something I didn't. I said that removing 1/4 Pokemon or 1/2 of Fire Emblem isn't as bad as removing the one representative of a game, which is likely why all the characters scrapped for Brawl were additional characters to existing franchises.

 

[ChronoBound]

This poll I did is the reason why a Namco character probably won't happen:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/64894091?results=1#1

No one can agree on who should be the Namco representative.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

This poll I did is the reason why a Namco character probably won't happen:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/64894091?results=1#1

No one can agree on who should be the Namco representative.

Lloyd over all just seems to be the best choice.

Also would Kos-Mos be considered a Namco rep, or a Monolith Soft rep? I'm just not sure if Nintendo or Namco owns the rights to her character, since Nintendo now owns Monolith.

 

[FlareHabanero]

KOS-MOS comes from Xenosaga which currently belongs to Namco. Here's a list of who owns what.

Xenogears = Squaresoft
Xenosaga = Namco
Xenoblade = Nintendo

Not that despite the name all three series are unrelated to each other and are only related in name only. Xenoblade wasn't originally going to be related to Xenogears or Xenosaga, but was instead going to be it's own thing originally called Mondo: Beginning of the World before changing the name as a tribute.

 

[Arcadenik]

Nor did it influence him being on a coin for Niue.

Mewtwo was on a coin for Niue? I thought it was just Bulbasaur, Charmander, Squirtle, Pikachu, and Meowth. No one else.

 

[Arcadenik]

The difference between Toad and Waddle Dee right now is people see Waddle Dee as more capable to fight, whereas a lot of people question what kind of a moveset Toad would have. Does it make the argument valid? Not necessarily, but from what I have seen that is what the issue with Toad boils down to.

Then they need to play Super Mario Bros. 2, Wario's Woods, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and New Super Mario Bros. U.

Whatever moves that Mario/Luigi/Peach had in those games, Toad could do the same (most of the time)... so in Smash, just give Toad moves that Mario/Luigi/Peach don't use in Smash.

Example 1: Mario/Luigi/Peach can pick up enemies in SMB2 just like Toad does but they don't do that in Smash, so give Toad this move.

Example 2: Mario/Luigi can use Propeller Mushrooms in NSMBWii/U just like the two Toads do but they don't do that in Smash (and I doubt they will), so give Toad this move.

 

[ChronoBound]

I just got done reading some topics on the Golden Sun: Dark Dawn message board at GameFAQs and they are really pessimistic about the future of that series. There are a few of them that think the only way to revitalize the series would be if Isaac were to be playable in Smash 4. Other than that a lot of them have pretty much resigned themselves to the fact that the series probably won't get another installment.

Also, throw in that the higher-ups at Golden Sun say that they will do a GS4 if there is enough demand for one, but then later on in the response admit it probably won't happen. The Camelot guy was also saying how difficult it is to write a story for a RPG and how much writing for Dark Dawn drained him, and went on and on about that.

I feel a lot of sympathy for the Isaac supporters, not only are they fighting for a character, they are fighting for a series. Isaac still has a lot of support in the West, however, lately Shulk has started to eat Isaac's lunch here too:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/64895787?results=1#1

I have not played the Golden Sun games, so I am neutral on Isaac in general though.

This may be a common theme for a lot of Nintendo characters that are being requested for Smash Bros. Inclusion in Smash Bros. means survival for a lot of them.

 

[Arcadenik]

I liked Dark Dawn. The second Golden Sun game I ever played and the only Golden Sun game I actually managed to defeat the final boss. I am still neutral between Isaac and Matthew mainly because they pretty much are the same person (gameplay wise) that I don't care which one gets in. Yes, Isaac gets the popularity vote but Matthew gets the relevancy vote and he's positioned as the main hero by Camelot.

 

[ChronoBound]

One thing that was said that made me feel old was when Golden Sun fans were discussing why Dark Dawn sold poorly relative to the GBA games. One person said that JRPGs are not as popular as they were a decade ago, and later mentioned Xenoblade as an example of a JPRG that was the highest praised JRPG this generation, yet go ho-hum sales, and that even if Dark Dawn was as acclaimed as its GBA predecessors, it still would not have sold as much as they did.

The gaming market has changed so much since 2006... It a different gaming world now than the one where when Brawl was released. Heck, just earlier this year, Hudson died. IGA probably won't do another Castlevania (Konami probably has him chained up in a dungeon somewhere). F-Zero may never get another new game. Things have changed so much.

I would like some users to comment on my previous post about some characters basically fighting for their futures by trying to get into Smash 4. I think there is a lot to it.

 

[8-peacock-8]

This poll I did is the reason why a Namco character probably won't happen:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/64894091?results=1#1

No one can agree on who should be the Namco representative.

Based on the poll, it seems that people agree that Pac-Man is the best choice for a rep. (I read the comments but a lot of them were for the "other" option) Lloyd being the second best.

In the end, it's up to the Namco Bandai team (and Sakurai) and not gamefaqs. (God help us all if Gamefaqs ends up as the group to decide game rosters) So i wouldn't say it wont happen. (Sakurai still has the final say though)

 

[ChronoBound]

Based on the poll, it seems that people agree that Pac-Man is the best choice for a rep. (I read the comments but a lot of them were for the "other" option) Lloyd being the second best.

In the end, it's up to the Namco Bandai team (and Sakurai) and not gamefaqs. (God help us all if Gamefaqs ends up as the group to decide game rosters) So i wouldn't say it wont happen. (Sakurai still has the final say though)

No, only a plurality of voters voted for Pac-Man. The majority votes for someone else. The fact that there is another option (Lloyd) that is competitive with Pac-Man means, that there is no consensus on who the Namco character should be.

If a similar poll was done here at SmashBoards, I would expect similar results (Pac-Man getting the most votes, but way less than 50%).

By comparison, if you did a poll for a Capcom character in Smash Bros., Mega Man would get way over 50% of the votes.

Even among people who want a Namco character in Brawl can't agree on Pac-Man as their choice.