Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Deleted member]

Sheriff would be needed to work on pretty hugely to make him stand out. And what a huge redesign he's in need of.

A revamp of this, maybe?

Perhaps with some of this mixed it:

And yes, those are taken from arcade cabinets and advertisments for the game.

 

[N3ON]

It's possible that G&W and ROB were added to represent Nintendo hardware moreso than Nintendo's history, in which case the Mii could hypothetically follow in their place for SSB4. Just speculation though.

If they were added due to their historical importance (which is entirely possible) then I would agree, other than Sheriff, or maybe Diskun (who could also be a hardware representative), no other character really could come close to comparing to them. However, I personally wouldn't be wild about having either of those characters I just mentioned playable, and I'm not even sure how Diskun would work anyway.

If they were just added for random WTFness (which many people think, but I doubt), then several characters could take that spot for SSB4, including the two above, but like I said, I doubt they were chosen on the basis of them being obscure or unexpected.

 

[Deleted member]

Ah, I forgot about Diskun, lol.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

My hope is that if a character like Saki or Issac gets in Sm4sh we could see some new stuff in their series. I mean, think about if for instance Saki became playable and was top tier in the game. We could possibly see a new Sin and Punishment in beautiful HD on the Wii U. And then if Issac were to get in (or even Mathew) we could even possibly see a new golden sun on the 3DS.
As for say a character like Shulk if he became playable, we could possible see a sequal there.

And don't get me started on retro characters being revived. With Nintendo's new motto of trying to be more with the hard core, could you imagine Takamaru getting a Mature, High action game? As well as a new punch out for Wii U would be awesome.

I might just be super optimistic, but stuff like this has happened in the past and it has me super hyped.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Ninka_Kiwi: I so wish for all this too. Sakurai though seems IMO unaware of giving something else than retro series "a second chance" by including them in Smash Bros. If he just didn't keep on being sorta biased against adding C-series as playables...I mean, I seriously think all of them missed their chance in Brawl.

I think I might blame the way Assist Trophy-concept was done. Because seriously, do casual fans even care about who these Assist Trophies even "are"? They're non-existent in Brawl's fanbase and community due being a mere pokeball knockoffs which are either more broken or even more annoying. To me this was just a flawed opportunity to try including these series.

Maybe if they tried to improve upon the AT-concept so it would be worth advertising the game with without making them feel non-existant to the game (except in casual setting), I think it'd give C-series and other missed potential newcomers their own place to shine.

One of my wishes for SSB4 would be revamped Assist Trophy-system where one could choose them in the selection screen and summon them ala Marvel VS Capcom. They'd at least be kept still in sidelines, but they can be optionally a part of the fight instead of always being absent and random due being some pokeball-knockoffs. With good balancing (which is likely due Namdai working on this), this would be sweet and very great alternative to include these characters IMO if we didn't get them as playables.
Well, I wouldn't at least mind it. They'd be still essentially there but have more of a significant role. Besides think about the fun matchups you can do with them along with your playable.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

Yeah I'm hoping that someone in the Namco team decides to say "Hey, let's make assist trophies actual assists." I could see that working a lot better, especially for assists like Dr. Wright, which were super situational and could never land a kill

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't think that being the first in whatever is a strong point for a character to get in Smash. It's gotta be more than that... look at Ninten and Ness. Ninten is the first protagonist of the Mother series and yet Ness is the one who got in. You listed Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B. but they contributed a huge part in Nintendo's history and sucess and it had nothing with being the first something.

And since you (not me) brought up Duck Hunt Dog. (he's sorta my Impa ) Duck Hunt helped contribute to Nintendo's history and success during the NES era, thanks to the NES Zapper. Now, yes, Wild Gunman is the first NES Zapper game but it didn't popularize the NES Zapper like Duck Hunt did. There's a reason Duck Hunt and not Wild Gunman was packaged with the NES in the West. The NES Zapper was succeed by the SNES Super Scope and later succeed by the Wii Zapper. The gaming concept of pointing your controller at the screen originated in the arcades and the NES Zapper brought that into our homes. I guess one could argue that Duck Hunt Dog could be used to represent the NES Zapper (hey, a Nintendo hardware!) and the light-gun genre (a genre that originated in the arcades as well).

In other words, being the first is not good enough unless we are going to add Pauline in Smash for being the first damsel-in-distress even though Peach popularized the video game archetypal role.

 

[Deleted member]

Ninka_Kiwi: I so wish for all this too. Sakurai though seems IMO unaware of giving something else than retro series "a second chance" by including them in Smash Bros. If he just didn't keep on being sorta biased against adding C-series as playables...I mean, I seriously think all of them missed their chance in Brawl.

I think I might blame the way Assist Trophy-concept was done. Because seriously, do casual fans even care about who these Assist Trophies even "are"? They're non-existent in Brawl's fanbase and community due being a mere pokeball knockoffs which are either more broken or even more annoying. To me this was just a flawed opportunity to try including these series.

Maybe if they tried to improve upon the AT-concept so it would be worth advertising the game with without making them feel non-existant to the game (except in casual setting), I think it'd give C-series and other missed potential newcomers their own place to shine.

One of my wishes for SSB4 would be revamped Assist Trophy-system where one could choose them in the selection screen and summon them ala Marvel VS Capcom. They'd at least be kept still in sidelines, but they can be optionally a part of the fight instead of always being absent and random due being some pokeball-knockoffs. With good balancing (which is likely due Namdai working on this), this would be sweet and very great alternative to include these characters IMO if we didn't get them as playables.
Well, I wouldn't at least mind it. They'd be still essentially there but have more of a significant role. Besides think about the fun matchups you can do with them along with your playable.

I could see the Assist Trophies work like the Support Komas in the Jump Super/Ultimate Stars games. It would be much better too, instead of the Glorified Pokeballs that we currently have.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Glad people agrees with my idea! I think I'd give them their own "tier" and they'd actually feel like part of the game! (~^<>^~)

Ninka_Kiwi: Most of Assists were quite dumb A.I'd and useless, namely Dr.Wright, Saki, Tingle, Nintendog, Starfy and Mr.Resetti. And Hammer Bro is useless because despite being able to move in his games (LETHAL ATTRIBUTE), he's absolutely static when he's dropped out. Devil's more of a situational.

Most of these could be taken out and work upon ones who actually assist and can use their moves to help out in a pinch. Maybe in a Wii U-pad there would be a little button where you can summon them when the meter's full or something. Multiple attacks/functions would endorse more strategic use of these summons and the meter would fill up only if you land hits in order to avoid camping for "buy time".

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think that being the first in whatever is a strong point for a character to get in Smash. It's gotta be more than that... look at Ninten and Ness. Ninten is the first protagonist of the Mother series and yet Ness is the one who got in. You listed Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B. but they contributed a huge part in Nintendo's history and sucess and it had nothing with being the first something.

And since you (not me) brought up Duck Hunt Dog. (he's sorta my Impa ) Duck Hunt helped contribute to Nintendo's history and success during the NES era, thanks to the NES Zapper. Now, yes, Wild Gunman is the first NES Zapper game but it didn't popularize the NES Zapper like Duck Hunt did. There's a reason Duck Hunt and not Wild Gunman was packaged with the NES in the West. The NES Zapper was succeed by the SNES Super Scope and later succeed by the Wii Zapper. The gaming concept of pointing your controller at the screen originated in the arcades and the NES Zapper brought that into our homes. I guess one could argue that Duck Hunt Dog could be used to represent the NES Zapper (hey, a Nintendo hardware!) and the light-gun genre (a genre that originated in the arcades as well).

In other words, being the first is not good enough unless we are going to add Pauline in Smash for being the first damsel-in-distress even though Peach popularized the video game archetypal role.

Your examples do not make sense.
For one, you're trying to compare the first Nintendo character in existance to the first in a particular series or the first in a particular archtype.

Two, popularizing a peripheral is not in the same vein as saving video games (R.O.B.), being an early success (G&W), or being the very first character (Sheriff).
I don't know why you think it is, but seeing as you stated DHD is your "Impa", it would probably be my best of interest to not argue the logic for the sake of my sanity.

 

[SmashChu]

The only two Mario characters they love at GameFAQs are Waluigi and Paper Mario, they especially love Waluigi.

I do think that roster I posted (minus Pac-Man) is most likely what's going to happen with Smash 4's roster. People will say 48 playable characters and only seven true newcomers is too low, but keep in mind that Sakurai is probably going to overhaul and re-design a lot of the veterans and make characters customizable (what they entails is unknown at this point).

It's not low. It's unrealistic.

Your taking what Sakurai has said too literally. He also says vague comments on the number of characters and he said similar thing during Brawl's development. He is always cautioning fans about characters.

Actions speak louder than words. Every Smash game has expanded on the roster more than the previous. 64 had 12 characters. Melee added 13 new ones. Brawl added 18 characters (16 if you want to count Pokemon Trainer as 1). So it just seems silly to say that there would only be 7 characters. Sure they may not add more than 18, but they will likely add at least 13. If Tekken Tag Tournament 2 can have 59 characters, then I'm sure SSB4 could muster up around 50.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

SmashChu: 11 newcomers? (-l.l-)

Well Sakurai had ruled out many series and included only Pikmin and Animal Crossing as worthy characters. We might not really expect much emphasis on newcomers Chu since most of the "worthy" characters seem in the low side and there's not been much new IPs or existing IPs standing out to make it in (Except Punch-Out and Xenoblade). Which is why we think we'll have less newcomers than in Brawl.

 

[Gamingboy]

Watch. Sakurai will put in some character that none of us have even mentioned in this thread. Like, he'll put in some super-obscure character from back when Nintendo was a company that made hanafuda cards and cheap toys, or something.

(Although Hanafuda Cards would be a better collectible than stickers...)

 

[8-peacock-8]

I don't think that being the first in whatever is a strong point for a character to get in Smash. It's gotta be more than that... look at Ninten and Ness. Ninten is the first protagonist of the Mother series and yet Ness is the one who got in. You listed Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B. but they contributed a huge part in Nintendo's history and sucess and it had nothing with being the first something.

And since you (not me) brought up Duck Hunt Dog. (he's sorta my Impa ) Duck Hunt helped contribute to Nintendo's history and success during the NES era, thanks to the NES Zapper. Now, yes, Wild Gunman is the first NES Zapper game but it didn't popularize the NES Zapper like Duck Hunt did. There's a reason Duck Hunt and not Wild Gunman was packaged with the NES in the West. The NES Zapper was succeed by the SNES Super Scope and later succeed by the Wii Zapper. The gaming concept of pointing your controller at the screen originated in the arcades and the NES Zapper brought that into our homes. I guess one could argue that Duck Hunt Dog could be used to represent the NES Zapper (hey, a Nintendo hardware!) and the light-gun genre (a genre that originated in the arcades as well).

In other words, being the first is not good enough unless we are going to add Pauline in Smash for being the first damsel-in-distress even though Peach popularized the video game archetypal role.

So being the first character of the company that Smash is celebrating means nothing? I can understand if you meant being first in something else, but being the first character of Nintendo is something different.

 

[Deleted member]

When Sakurai said "we've probably already reached the limit", couldn't he be referring to SSB4's roster being the limit? If he was referring to Brawl's roster being the limit, we'd be seeing minimal if any increase in the roster and quite a few cuts. I'm confident we're not getting any less than 44 characters (transformation included) and I am willing to bet on no more than two cuts maximum (I find cuts unlikely as is). The pool is indeed slim, but not so slim in that there's less than fifteen realistic contenders.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Watch. Sakurai will put in some character that none of us have even mentioned in this thread. Like, he'll put in some super-obscure character from back when Nintendo was a company that made hanafuda cards and cheap toys, or something.

(Although Hanafuda Cards would be a better collectible than stickers...)

And one of the stages will be a love hotel.

 

[Gamingboy]

I'm working on my prediction list, I'm assuming around 45 spots on the select screen and maybe around 50 or so characters when you count transformations.

 

[Gamingboy]

And one of the stages will be a love hotel.

That's one way for Nintendo to ditch the "kiddy" image!

 

[Arcadenik]

Noooo.... it's gotta be Maria the Nurse... she's definitely the first Nintendo character. She is from Nintendo's People House - a line of toy houses in 1968. She should totally get in Smash with Dr. Mario's old moveset. That way, Sakurai doesn't have to strain his imagination to come up with a moveset for Sheriff. And we totally need more female characters because GASP! she's the first female Nintendo character to boot!

 

[Starphoenix]

It's not low. It's unrealistic.

Your taking what Sakurai has said too literally. He also says vague comments on the number of characters and he said similar thing during Brawl's development. He is always cautioning fans about characters.

Actions speak louder than words. Every Smash game has expanded on the roster more than the previous. 64 had 12 characters. Melee added 13 new ones. Brawl added 18 characters (16 if you want to count Pokemon Trainer as 1). So it just seems silly to say that there would only be 7 characters. Sure they may not add more than 18, but they will likely add at least 13. If Tekken Tag Tournament 2 can have 59 characters, then I'm sure SSB4 could muster up around 50.

My problem isn't with the amount of characters, it's with the quality. I'm not sure, from Sakurai's perspective, there are thirteen characters worth adding before you have to start digging through the bottom barrel leftovers like Midna and Captain Syrup.

 

[Deleted member]

That's one way for Nintendo to ditch the "kiddy" image!

That and a Fire Emblem or Nintendo Girl Dating Sim/Porn game... The eroge industry is still relatively fresh... Hahahahaha.

I'm working on my prediction list, I'm assuming around 45 spots on the select screen and maybe around 50 or so characters when you count transformations.

I feel like making a prediction roster is somewhat redundant. I plan on making a prediction video, just covering the most likely characters to get in, but even then that's no fun. I might just make a Top 10 I wanna see, even though they have like... NO chance.

My problem isn't with the amount of characters, it's with the quality. I'm not sure, from Sakurai's perspective, there are thirteen characters worth adding before you have to start digging through the bottom barrel leftovers like Midna and Captain Syrup.

I can think up a good 20 or so 1st party characters that would be interesting in Smash before needing to get to boring side kicks like Midna.

 

[Deleted member]

Noooo.... it's gotta be Maria the Nurse... she's definitely the first Nintendo character. She is from Nintendo's People House - a line of toy houses in 1968. She should totally get in Smash with Dr. Mario's old moveset. That way, Sakurai doesn't have to strain his imagination to come up with a moveset for Sheriff. And we totally need more female characters because GASP! she's the first female Nintendo character to boot!

This is pretty much the most stupid thing I've read today.
Congradulations.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think Arcadenik is being serious.

 

[Gamingboy]

I'm not sure if Arcadenik is being serious.

I think he was being sarcastic.

That said, stuff like that would make a neat trophy....

 

[Starphoenix]

I won't lie, I badly want that bug in Super Smash Bros now. A cybernetic, predatory insect is a much better choice than a bipedal clown dog.

http://youtu.be/u-S6mTUV-9w

 

[Arcadenik]

What? The trollface didn't give off my sarcasm?

 

[Deleted member]

@Gamingboy: Changed it to reflect my thought.

Anyway, this is interesting. It doesn't mean much for Smash, but Star Fox was considered to be part of Nintendo Land.

@Starphoenix: Genesect's my pick for a 5th gen Pokemon newcomer as well. Unfortunately, it seems likely that he missed his shot, given that most of the newcomers were decided in August.

 

[Deleted member]

Unfortunately, it seems likely that he missed his shot, given that most of the newcomers were decided in August.

Again, you keep saying that. How about providing a source? If there is none, STOP SAYING IT.

 

[Arcadenik]

SSBF, if the newcomers has been decided on August 2012... then the plausible newcomers are the characters who had major roles (usually playable) in the major Nintendo games that came out after Brawl came out or were announced prior to August 2012.

 

[Starphoenix]

@Starphoenix: Genesect's my pick for a 5th gen Pokemon newcomer as well. Unfortunately, it seems likely that he missed his shot, given that most of the newcomers were decided in August.

Source?

Last time I checked, it took a year before Brawl's roster was finalized.

 

[Deleted member]

Again, you keep saying that. How about providing a source? If there is none, STOP SAYING IT.

What he meant to say was that it's MOST LIKELY the roster has been decided since August. The sauce has already been provided many pages back, I can go digging for it if you'd like.

I would still consider it rumor status, but it's better than nothing.

Also, calm down dude... No need to be so butthurt about it.

SSBF, if the newcomers has been decided on August 2012... then the plausible newcomers are the characters who had major roles (usually playable) in the major Nintendo games that came out after Brawl came out or were announced prior to August 2012.

I hate to be the grammar Nazi, but as an English Teacher it's bugging the ever living hell out of me, and you're not the first one to do it today.

It's HAD been decided. Past perfect, as you're giving a date. You're defining an action that took place in the past at a set date (on). If you were to use since, you'd still be wrong as newcomers is plural, and you would need to use have been, present perfect conjugated to 3rd person PLURAL.

Not to be a **** dude, so don't take it the wrong way. It's mostly for everyone else here that are also keep making simple mistakes on their grammar, I'm simply adding some constructive criticism. It's just your's pushed me over the edge...

 

[Deleted member]

This is what I'm talking about.

Masahiro Sakurai delivered a speech at this year’s CEDEC developers conference today. The session, called “Why Do You Make Games?”, lacked Smash Bros. news for the most part. Although, Sakurai did share one small nugget.

Famitsu transcribed the following quote from Sakurai:

“It’s fun making new skills for new characters.”

Well then… Geno confirmed for the next Smash Bros,! Ah, just kidding.

See the bolded. If Sakurai is making new skills for new characters, logic would say that he already decided the majority of newcomers. Realistically, when it comes to late additions, the only ones I can see are last-minute clones or third-parties.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not "butthurt". I get tired of people claiming things as fact, when there is no fact.

EDIT: Until Sakurai or someone within the development team actually flat out says that the characters have been decided, all you're doing is jumping to conclusions like everyone else does with that particular quote, only with a different conclusion.

What Sakurai said: "It's fun making new skills for new characters."

What Sakurai meant: "It's fun making new skills for new characters."

What Sakurai did not say: "Most characters have already been decided."

Logic dictates to not overthink what is being said. You should know this by now. Or do you not remember the "up until now" deal with Ness and Lucas?

 

[IntelliHeath1]

Chrono: I have reasons why I'm never attend places crawling with Sonic-fans despite being a huge fan of Sonic myself.

But true, at least we have our standards. But boy do I dread the day when people flock in here like crazy after Smash 4 trailer is released.

Yeah, I'm afraid of those days.

It's possible that G&W and ROB were added to represent Nintendo hardware moreso than Nintendo's history, in which case the Mii could hypothetically follow in their place for SSB4. Just speculation though.

If they were added due to their historical importance (which is entirely possible) then I would agree, other than Sheriff, or maybe Diskun (who could also be a hardware representative), no other character really could come close to comparing to them. However, I personally wouldn't be wild about having either of those characters I just mentioned playable, and I'm not even sure how Diskun would work anyway.

If they were just added for random WTFness (which many people think, but I doubt), then several characters could take that spot for SSB4, including the two above, but like I said, I doubt they were chosen on the basis of them being obscure or unexpected.

Well, that could make sense for Duck Hunt Dog, based on Laser Gun. It's just my biased opinion. I thought Duck Hunt Dog would be great wtf character even his chance was pretty much slim.

 

[lobotheduck21]

I won't lie, I badly want that bug in Super Smash Bros now. A cybernetic, predatory insect is a much better choice than a bipedal clown dog.

http://youtu.be/u-S6mTUV-9w

Why wouldn't you wan't snoop dog lion

Edit: Eevee ftw

 

[Arcadenik]

This is what I'm talking about.

See the bolded. If Sakurai is making new skills for new characters, logic would say that he already decided the majority of newcomers. Realistically, when it comes to late additions, the only ones I can see are last-minute clones or third-parties.

Ummm... please fix the link. It seems broken to me.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Ummm... please fix the link. It seems broken to me.

Same here

fi fi fi filler

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, I suspect by August 2012 Sakurai had a majority of the characters he wanted to include decided upon, but technically we don't have any official confirmation of anything, and I very much doubt the roster had been finalized or anything. I'm guessing several of whatever characters make up SSB4's equivalent to the Forbidden 7 have not yet been cut, and I wouldn't be surprised if not all the characters that will wind up in the finished game have been added yet.

Again, I do suspect the majority have been decided upon, however, yet as we really have nothing more than that statement to go by, right now it's just guesswork as to how far along the roster is.

Well, that could make sense for Duck Hunt Dog, based on Laser Gun. It's just my biased opinion. I thought Duck Hunt Dog would be great wtf character even his chance was pretty much slim.

I suppose so, but the Dog would need to use the gun in his moveset for him to actually represent it. Plus personally I don't think the light gun is at the same level of the things the others would represent, but who knows, if Sakurai does just pick the G&W/ROB-type characters for them being obscure/unexpected, then the Dog stands a decent chance I guess, however I doubt that is why they are chosen.

 

[Deleted member]

Logic dictates to not overthink what is being said. You should know this by now. Or do you not remember the "up until now" deal with Ness and Lucas?

No, I don't think I do, if you could freshen up my memory, it would be much appreciated.

Also, you don't need to be so volatile. You wanna get your point across, simply retort with a sarcastic remark, or laugh at them for saying something stupid, hell, even troll the **** out of them if you so wish, but getting upset is just plain immature.

Don't forget that a large potion of the userbase in this forum is underage teens. Most of whom lack the reasoning and sensibility a grown adult SHOULD have.

Also, I think the quote he's referring to isn't the one you're thinking about... I guess I'm gonna have to go looking for it after all. Can't you just search it yourself? I'd hate to post something I've already posted ITT once again.

 

[Deleted member]

http://nintendoeverything.com/96807...its-fun-making-new-skills-for-new-characters/

Link

@GoldenYuiitusin: I'm going by what we have here. The first thing Sakurai decides in the game are the characters. We saw this with Melee when the roster was decided in 1999 and Brawl when the roster was mostly finalized on July, 2005. He does this because adding characters later on is very difficult.

Sakurai saying he's making new skills for new characters should indicate that most of the newcomers have already been decided.