Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[---]

You are thinking of Dream Fighter Mix TV, and no Namco was not involved with that at all.

Oops, my bad then. Think I forgot the companies involved in that one, can only remember Konami & Hudson.

EDIT: Yeah, got Bandai and Takara/Tomy Toys mixed up.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I sure hope they don't put the same amount of effort they put into SoulCalibur V... a super disappointing game from a fairly poorly designed fighting series. I kind of hope they just contribute ideas like "People love unlocking alternate costumes and accessories!" and "People love our customization options!" and not bring in the crappy mechanic-building that Namco's done in SoulCalibur.

I'll be honest. I'm mostly irritated that playing SCV versus a button-mashing 8-year old leads to a 50-50 win ratio.

That being said, I still want Namco characters in Smash.

Damn you for reminding me about that game's existence. Just, damn you! I didn't even buy it and it pissed me off with most of the decisions they made on the game. SCIV I could at least consider a guilty pleasure with the Star Wars characters.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Sounds like it's your fault for not knowing scrub tactics. A lot of times when they're mashing, you should be able to jab out of certain parts.

You shouldn't actually have to be wholly versed in all of a fighting game's tactics to play it. Button mashing in Smash gets you nowhere, you're actually encouraged to learn how to play the game... but at the same time, it's easy to pick up. You can attack, you can block, and you can move.

In SoulCalibur, a lot of the gameplay is about memorizing the every attack animation and sequence of every possible enemy in order to know if a high attack or a low attack is coming so you can block it, and in the fifth game you can't even master the special guard techniques because they made attempting them cost a valuable resource. Also, the computer AI doesn't even pretend to emulate players, so there's no friendly way to learn how to actually play the game. Furthermore, even highly experienced people have trouble with the game's teching system, making getting up without taking damage a constant battle so a better player who gets the first combo in will completely decimate a novice. The series is just so completely hostile to new players who want to get better.

But, still, it is a very popular series and I'm sure they'll have a lot of experience to bring to Smash. Grumble.

Edit: Besides, "jabbing out of certain parts" kind of implies that your opponent is just repeating the same attack over and over. Button mashing in this case means "pressing every button on the controller while not looking at the screen and running around the room screaming". No rhyme or reason, no pattern to follow... I think that was my main problem, trying to actually play the game. I did quite well when I started button mashing myself.

 

[Deleted member]

Likely the very reason Namco is on board. At least they're still around. Seriously, why is it that Sakurai gets work for hire instead of acquiring permanent employees?

I have no idea. Maybe because of his philosophy that every game must be as completed as possible?

Hopefully Sakurai uses this opportunity to include DLC so that everything he wants (or at least close to it) can get in. This is the main reason why I haven't ruled out the possibility of us getting more than fifty-three characters in the next game (although I'm not expecting it).

 

[Deleted member]

I posted them over in both the Smash and FE sections of GameFAQs and NeoGaf.

I see DLC being one or two unqiue characters (Pac-Man, Tingle) and two or three semi clones. (Pichu, Chrom, Medusa)

Thanks Shorts. I knew I could count on you man!

Alright people!

I'm curious and made a poll. So....

What do you guys think they should do with Pokemon Trainer?

http://www.yourfreepoll.com/zlukhneasp.html

Tell me what you think? And Manly, could I get you to link this to 4chan?

Voted! and I posted it on /v/ and /vp/.

 

[Shorts]

NP Manly ~

And here's the quote of the morning for everyone.

Adding characters from other series and from other worlds, really, outside the Nintendo universe, is an incredibly difficult process. In some ways it's more difficult from just building a game from the ground up because you're really trying to make everything match and in some ways that creates limitations. I hope that people can understand that's the reason we can't include more characters from outside the Nintendo universe. And, of course, I believe that when you increase the number of worlds, you're also increasing the number of people who could potentially enjoy that videogame and the series that you're putting in there. But there are also problems because having these non-traditional characters in there -- even with just Snake and Sonic -- has resulted in a number of people who do dissent in seeing these characters put into the Smash series. It's not a simple matter of adding as many worlds and characters from other games as possible -- you can't be careless in doing that sort of thing, you have to be careful. Internally and externally, there have been people who have raised objections to it.

Thoughts?

 

[Deleted member]

Probably the quote I take the most seriously in regards to a potential new third-party rep. The quote essentially destroys the chance of nearly every potential third-party candidate out there as it will show just how picky Sakurai will be in regards to a new third-party appearing ("narrowing down focus" further cements this as well).

It's down to Mega Man, Professor Layton, Pac-Man and Geno at this rate and only one, maybe two, will get in (assuming there's even a new third-party). I will bet hard cash that anyone outside of these four will not get in.

 

[Shorts]

Probably the quote I take the most seriously in regards to a potential new third-party rep. The quote essentially destroys the chance of nearly every potential third-party candidate out there as it will show just how picky Sakurai will be in regards to a new third-party appearing ("narrowing down focus" further cements this as well).

It's down to Mega Man, Professor Layton, Pac-Man and Geno at this rate and only one, maybe two, will get in (assuming there's even a new third-party). I will bet hard cash that anyone outside of these four will not get in.

I like that you left Geno in there. He's a wildcard IMO. One that I believe Sakurai has invested prior time looking into.

 

[Deleted member]

I like that you left Geno in there. He's a wildcard IMO. One that I believe Sakurai has invested prior time looking into.

Wildcard suits Geno perfectly. I feel as if Sakurai were to go after any third-party, it'd probably be Mega Man due to having overall, much more things going for him, but if Sakurai were to go after anyone else, it'd be Geno (mainly because of his pre-Brawl popularity that still exist in a decent amount today).

So he's not "realistic" so to say, but I'm not going to rule him out as a curveball addition just yet.

 

[Shorts]

Wildcard suits Geno perfectly. I feel as if Sakurai were to go after any third-party, it'd probably be Mega Man due to having overall, much more things going for him, but if Sakurai were to go after anyone else, it'd be Geno (mainly because of his pre-Brawl popularity that still exist in a decent amount today).

So he's not "realistic" so to say, but I'm not going to rule him out as a curveball addition just yet.

Exactly. He's not "realistic" like Pac-Man, Layton, or Megaman. And under MOST circumstances he wouldn't be given the time of day. I just feel there was enough Pre-Brawl hype, and of course some indications of a "Nintendo character not owned by Nintendo who didn't show up in Brawl" not being used. It's like, possible, IF SAKURAI WANTS IT TO BE. And I think he may want/have wanted it to be.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think Geno is a possible "curveball" third-party newcomer too. Though I think for all of the "curveball" or "shock" third-party characters, their chances are shot after E3 2013.

 

[Deleted member]

One thing's for sure, it'll be interesting to see what Sakurai goes with for a third-party (or two).

Does Sakurai go after Mega Man, who is quite likely the most wanted newcomer and by far the most wanted third-party character? Will Layton get a Snake-like treatment thanks to a likely Hino push for his inclusion? Would Sakurai consider Pac-Man's super iconic status as worthy enough of playable status? Or does he blow all of our expectations away and include a fan favorite from the pre-Brawl era?

We'll have to see.
---
As for Geno, would people think that he would have an easier time fitting in than other third-parties? The licensing issues will obviously be very difficult to deal with, but the only major role he played in was a Mario game. Geno always felt more like a Mario character because of this, so I think that integrating him into the game would be easier to do than for the other candidates. Perhaps that might give him an edge as well.

 

[BKupa666]

I am confident the "people" Sakurai hopes will understand his conservative attitude toward third parties are not just the fans, but the advocates for a Namco character within his team as well.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Iwata new Nintendo NA CEO
Iwata confirmed for SSB4

 

[splat]

As for Geno, would people think that he would have an easier time fitting in than other third-parties? The licensing issues will obviously be very difficult to deal with, but the only major role he played in was a Mario game. Geno always felt more like a Mario character because of this, so I think that integrating him into the game would be easier to do than for the other candidates. Perhaps that might give him an edge as well.

I never owned a Nintendo 64 (I had a Playstation), so I missed Super Mario RPG.

So when I played Mario & Luigi, and Geno showed up in a minigame to explain the rules, I had no clue who he was. I just remember thinking he felt completely out of place, his design not fitting the universe. As a huge Marioverse fan, I enjoy pretty much any design that is found in the Mario games, but Geno just doesn't seem to fit. Perhaps it's just me, but I think he'd be a better fit in the Final Fantasy 1 world.

 

[Deleted member]

I am confident the "people" Sakurai hopes will understand his conservative attitude toward third parties are not just the fans, but the advocates for a Namco character within his team as well.

From what we know so far, based off the Tales team leaving it up to Sakurai and the Tekken team only pushing for one if one becomes "popular enough", I'd say that at least some part of the team would understand Sakurai's conservative nature towards third-parties.

What I find more interesting is that we've heard nothing in regards to Pac-Man being in Smash from Namco so far. Granted, it's possible that they're keeping a big secret from fans, but the fact that Namco has mentioned both a Tales and a Tekken rep before Pac-Man makes me feel as perhaps Namco may not be all that interested in getting Pac-Man in and instead, want to try to get a Tales or a Tekken rep in (and those are big ifs). If this is a case, then Namco essentially sealed their chances of getting a rep because I absolutely don't see Sakurai seeing those two as worth the effort.

And I have a hard enough time seeing us getting Pac-Man.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I never owned a Nintendo 64 (I had a Playstation), so I missed Super Mario RPG.

So when I played Mario & Luigi, and Geno showed up in a minigame to explain the rules, I had no clue who he was. I just remember thinking he felt completely out of place, his design not fitting the universe. As a huge Marioverse fan, I enjoy pretty much any design that is found in the Mario games, but Geno just doesn't seem to fit. Perhaps it's just me, but I think he'd be a better fit in the Final Fantasy 1 world.

Mario RPG was on the SNES anyway.
And I agree, Geno sucks. He's one of those character that became popular because his fanbase was loud. Like Waluigi, or Black Shadow. Characters which don't deserve a spot at all but now are almost priorities.

 

[Deleted member]

And before anyone else ask for the link: http://press.nintendo.com/articles.jsp?id=38483

 

[Deleted member]

Probably the quote I take the most seriously in regards to a potential new third-party rep. The quote essentially destroys the chance of nearly every potential third-party candidate out there as it will show just how picky Sakurai will be in regards to a new third-party appearing ("narrowing down focus" further cements this as well).

It's down to Mega Man, Professor Layton, Pac-Man and Geno at this rate and only one, maybe two, will get in (assuming there's even a new third-party). I will bet hard cash that anyone outside of these four will not get in.

Imo, there's nothing we can predict about 3rd parties until E3. Then we can make more solid conclussion. As Chrono said, all the wildcards have to either be shown there or not at all.

So far, our shot for 3rd party: is anyone is eligible, and has equal standing as long as they coincide with Sakurai's rules.

For all we know, Smash 4 could forego 3rd party guests all-together.

As for Sonic and Snake returning or not, that's something we'll have to endure for quite a while if you ask me. On the plus side, after E3, expect more interviews to crop up. Hopefully one will answer this question early on...

 

[Gene]

I hope The Dojo gets announced after Smash 4's reveal. It would be great if the dojo got started early, but of course drag out the reveal of more info that will appear on the dojo.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Did anyone else see this?

http://wiiudaily.com/2013/04/f-zero-for-wii-u/

 

[Metal Overlord]

Won't get my hopes up now, but a new F-Zero would be amazing!

 

[Deleted member]

Did anyone else see this?

http://wiiudaily.com/2013/04/f-zero-for-wii-u/

OH****OH****OH****OH****!!!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

This thread will head to retirement sooner than planned if users keep posting off-topic stuff outside of the general discussion thread.

I know that I signaled a last warning earlier, but this is the true final warning to all.

 

[FalKoopa]

Did anyone else see this?

http://wiiudaily.com/2013/04/f-zero-for-wii-u/

I have doubts that it's fake, mostly due to how directly he said "we have something in the works", because it is in Nintendo's interest to keep any new F-Zero announcemen secret until E3.

But if it is true, it considerably bolsters the chances of a new F-Zero rep.

 

[Big-Cat]

In SoulCalibur, a lot of the gameplay is about memorizing the every attack animation and sequence of every possible enemy in order to know if a high attack or a low attack is coming so you can block it, and in the fifth game you can't even master the special guard techniques because they made attempting them cost a valuable resource. Also, the computer AI doesn't even pretend to emulate players, so there's no friendly way to learn how to actually play the game. Furthermore, even highly experienced people have trouble with the game's teching system, making getting up without taking damage a constant battle so a better player who gets the first combo in will completely decimate a novice. The series is just so completely hostile to new players who want to get better.

Let me explain a couple of things. Those strings are something you learn from playing the game over time and you start to learn how to counter them. Smash and other fighting games are the same in this regard with attack patterns. Special guard techniques (if they're anything like alpha counters) costing some resource is to be expected if the move is a get-off-me move. You can't just get out of a situation for free. Same with teching. That's the okizeme game which is incredibly important to a game's tactics.

As for the AI, that can be said for all games in general. The AI might have humanly impossible reactions, but they cannot match human serendipity.

Edit: Besides, "jabbing out of certain parts" kind of implies that your opponent is just repeating the same attack over and over. Button mashing in this case means "pressing every button on the controller while not looking at the screen and running around the room screaming". No rhyme or reason, no pattern to follow... I think that was my main problem, trying to actually play the game. I did quite well when I started button mashing myself.

That's not what I was implying. The vast majority of strings in 3D Fighters have portions of moves that can be sidestepped, ducked, or simply jabbed out of (it's like the one thing to stop scrub Kazama players in Tekken). The jabbing is incredibly important if they're using strings that transition to stances which combined with the startup of the followup attack as they're never fast enough to beat jabs if the previous move was blocked.

EDIT: PM me if you like since this thread doesn't have much life left.

 

[Deleted member]

EDIT: PM me if you like since this thread doesn't have much life left.

I want in on this, send me an invite when you do.

 

[Starphoenix]

This thread will head to retirement sooner than planned if users keep posting off-topic stuff outside of the general discussion thread.

I know that I signaled a last warning earlier, but this is the true final warning to all.

Why don't you just consolidate the two threads for the time being? Asking for people to stay on topic right before E3 is like asking a hungry dog not to eat food a foot away. Once the trailer is released, and whatever new characters come, there will be things worth discussing and this thread will probably correct itself.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Star: Finally someone gets it... I mean, I'm not even visiting this place much due the sheer lack of anything on-topic anyway. But then I guess we ALL SHOULD NOT VISIT this place altogether if we so wish to preserve this thread for the time where we finally receive the ripe subjects for discussion and speculation, definitely after E3.

Anyway M&S Guy, just please, cut us some slack. We don't know what to discuss at this point, so we're trying to make up for that time with friendly bonding and games. I guess. There's still some moral bells here so don't get too worried.

 

[~automatic]

Why don't you just consolidate the two threads for the time being? Asking for people to stay on topic right before E3 is like asking a hungry dog not to eat food a foot away. Once the trailer is released, and whatever new characters come, there will be things worth discussing and this thread will probably correct itself.

The other thread is for what is generally discussed in this thread (general speculation and stuff). This thread is supposed to center around characters and the roster and not everything else.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

http://www.yourfreepoll.com/zlukhneasp.html

So I'm a bit surprised with the results so far.

The top score with 49 points is to keep Pokemon Trainer as he is.

But second place with 33 points is that he should use a combination of different Gen starters?

What do you think this means for Pokemon Trainer? What do you think Sakurai thinks?

@M&SG
I'll try to keep it on topic.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I don't think Sakurai gives a **** really.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well if staying off topic will apparently lead to the apocalypse, we could always go back to talking about Fire Emblem YET AGAIN for the time being.

Seriously, we've beaten every dead horse to a bloody pulp. How are we going to stay on topic if everything has been answered multiple times?

 

[Curious Villager]

I feel sorry for those dead horses even if they are already dead... Welp, guess we don't have much else to do but to wait for E3... >_>

 

[Deleted member]

Imo, there's nothing we can predict about 3rd parties until E3. Then we can make more solid conclussion. As Chrono said, all the wildcards have to either be shown there or not at all.

So far, our shot for 3rd party: is anyone is eligible, and has equal standing as long as they coincide with Sakurai's rules.

For all we know, Smash 4 could forego 3rd party guests all-together.

As for Sonic and Snake returning or not, that's something we'll have to endure for quite a while if you ask me. On the plus side, after E3, expect more interviews to crop up. Hopefully one will answer this question early on...

I'm hoping that when we figure out something about the fate of Sonic and Snake, that it won't be when the roster is entirely leaked. Their cuts (assuming it happens) is already going to be painful enough, but saving it until the very end are going to make things a lot worse.

 

[Deleted member]

inb4thestupidlock

Let's all just not post until E3. Maybe then we'll have something to talk about and a certain someone won't have his knickers in a twist.

 

[Deleted member]

If this thread gets closed, so be it. It's not like we're suddenly going to stop discussing characters just because the topic moves to the Wii-U thread over at the General section. Plus there's many character threads along with Golden's speculation chart.

I'll try to cobble my thoughts together on possible E3 reveals for this game along with finally explain my E3 prediction that I've sticked to for the longest time.

I'll also post this here for Shortie since I'm curious about his answer (as well as others who want to comment):

I'd also like to hear your thoughts on if one of Snake/Sonic (not both as one gets confirmed and the other gets deconfirmed) and a new third-party character got confirmed. Would you feel similar odds for Mega Man as you would if a new third-party character gets revealed but Sonic and Snake are cut?

 

[hiramsthoughts]

Probably the quote I take the most seriously in regards to a potential new third-party rep. The quote essentially destroys the chance of nearly every potential third-party candidate out there as it will show just how picky Sakurai will be in regards to a new third-party appearing ("narrowing down focus" further cements this as well).

It's down to Mega Man, Professor Layton, Pac-Man and Geno at this rate and only one, maybe two, will get in (assuming there's even a new third-party). I will bet hard cash that anyone outside of these four will not get in.

I have no idea why people keep using Pac-Man over Lloyd as a Namco rep. Sakurai borrowed the man behind the Tales RPGs, Yo****o Higuchi, The producer of Tales also asked his fans to beg Sakurai to include a Tales character. He also mentioned how he desperately wants his characters in the game so Tales might increase its familiarity in the West.

 

[LaniusShrike]

At this point, I do feel like both Sonic and Snake deserve to be in Smash...

But Megaman does deserve it more than those two. I've played a few of these character's games on Nintendo, but I've played... I think, like, literally a dozen different Megaman games on Nintendo platforms.

So, I'd be sad if I saw some 3rd person people leave, but I'd be happy to see Megaman introduced-- especially if he had an interesting mechanic. He'll be kind of hard to design well compared to most other characters, though.

 

[BKupa666]

I think the possibility of Pac-Man has been way overhyped by fans since the announcement of Namco's involvement. Barring the aforementioned possibility of him being some big secret reveal that Namco is steering attention away from by mentioning Tales/Tekken characters, his chances stem from more of a sense that he's entitled to playability due to being an icon, rather than due to making sense as an advertisement or a fan favorite. In that regard, he's basically the 'Toad' of third party characters.