Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Deleted member]

Isn't that where we get a lot of captain falcons moves?

I'm not certain. I'm no expert.

Not really; Falcon's moves are generally original to Smash, but notably his Specials seem to be based off of actions you can take while piloting an F-Zero machine.

 

[BKupa666]

Are you sure? Headbutt definitely seems like something that would come from it at the very least.

And K. Rool with Klap-Blaster semi-confirmed.

Well, one episode had a hilarious pun about DK "using his head"...

 

[Deleted member]

Well, one episode had a hilarious pun about DK "using his head"...

Double entendre?
Although, I'm not sure how well puns translate to Japanese...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Not really; Falcon's moves are generally original to Smash, but notably his Specials seem to be based off of actions you can take while piloting an F-Zero machine.

Which actions?

I can't see the connection.

I suppose Falcon Kick might be Boost and Falcon Dive could be the spinning attack (and that's if I'm streching, A LOT) but what about Falcon Punch and Raptor Boost?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Falcon Punch and Raptor Boost?

Falcon Punch could possibly be based on a move used by Kamen Rider, which involves using a powerful punch in a similar fashion. Not 100% sure on Raptor Boost though, that might be more improvised.

 

[~automatic]

Raptor boost is an uppercut kinda move he uses in the F-Zero comic to punch a guy with a laser gun.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Falcon Punch could possibly be based on a move used by Kamen Rider, which involves using a powerful punch in a similar fashion. Not 100% sure on Raptor Boost though, that might be more improvised.

I was talking to Golden about Falcon's specials being based on actions from the F-Zero games.

Unless I've been playing F-Zero wrong all these years I don't remember a Kamen Rider maneuver.

But yeah, you're correct regardless.

 

[Deleted member]

Which actions?

I can't see the connection.

I suppose Falcon Kick might be Boost and Falcon Dive could be the spinning attack (and that's if I'm streching, A LOT) but what about Falcon Punch and Raptor Boost?

Falcon Dive is actually more in line with using Jump Plates, though the grab and explode aspect is original to Smash (Maybe that's based off the mine obstacles?).
Raptor Boost is seemingly based off of the Side Attack, especially in that the move leaves you totally helpless if you fall off the edge while using it. (Kind of like how you can miss tackling someone and fall off the track)
Falcon Kick is seemingly based on, like you said, the Boost Power. It also doubles as a parallel to the Rider Kick from Kamen Rider.
As for the Falcon Punch, inspiration might be from the Spin Attack, as both moves are strong hits that require good timing to be effective. Or possibly even the mine obstacles, as those are explosive, take a chunk of Energy, and send you flying fast. Or it could be an alternative take to the Side Attack, similar to how both Fire Fox and Fox Illusion draw from Boosting in the Star Fox series. Or it could even just be a completely original move to go with the Falcon Kick to draw more direct parallels to Kamen Rider and the Rider Punch.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Although, I'm not sure how well puns translate to Japanese...

Puns in general are very difficult to translate between languages. When it comes to dubs, ether the pun in question is dropped entirely, replaced with something that would make more sense, or simply left as it is. It depends really.

One example of what I'm talking about is a certain pun in Kid Icarus: Uprising, where in the Japanese version Pit gets confused on whether Palutena is talking about the "eggplant" or "nurse" curing him due to their Japanese names being similar (nasu and na-su respectively). In the English version, it's replaced by Pit remarking that he's been in the hospital so much that they named the place after him, called "hosPITal".

 

[Deleted member]

Puns in general are very difficult to translate between languages. When it comes to dubs, ether the pun in question is dropped entirely, replaced with something that would make more sense, or simply left as it is. It depends really.

One example of what I'm talking about is a certain pun in Kid Icarus: Uprising, where in the Japanese version Pit gets confused on whether Palutena is talking about the "eggplant" or "nurse" curing him due to their Japanese names being similar (nasu and na-su respectively). In the English version, it's replaced by Pit remarking that he's been in the hospital so much that they named the place after him, called "hosPITal".

I see.
So I wonder if such a pun about DK "using his head" would even work in Japanese....

 

[Oasis_S]

Now that you bring up the spinning attack in F-Zero, can't help but imagine Samurai Goroh spinning around like a top with his sword out, and you have to control his balance in order to keep the move going.

 

[bobadz]

In the public eye, the entire Donkey Kong franchise dropped off the face of the earth between DK64 and DKCR for all intents and purposes. There's a reason some DK fans label it the "decade of nothing," not the least of which is that, out of its eleven games released between 2001-2009, only two (DKC GBA and Diddy Kong Racing DS) cracked a million sales, and only barely (source, DK Vine). Some, like Barrel Blast, flopped miserably.

Still, the series' comfortable spot as Nintendo's fourth-best seller (fifth behind Wii paraphernalia) is a testament to DKC's popularity in the 90s. As such, though many players may not have beaten the games and seen K. Rool, the number of people who have may be proportionally close to or greater than those familiar with Ridley, based on series sales alone.

Then, of course, the Smash series comes along and laughs heartily at my little counterpoint. But that's a different debate.

This is very true. DKCR revived the series popularity. In 2006, Diddy was in almost the same situation as K Rool's in now. Ridley had an appearance in Prime 3 and Other M. K Rool's last appearance was in a Mario Sports game.

 

[---]

Personally I always thought Captain Falcon's moveset was borrowed from the remains of the the proto-type Smash game: Dragon King.

 

[bobadz]

Personally I always thought Captain Falcon's moveset was borrowed from the remains of the the proto-type Smash game: Dragon King.

I heard it was.

 

[ChronoBound]

I would not say Diddy Kong during pre-Brawl was in the same boat as K. Rool is in now. For one Diddy Kong was making regular appearances in both the Mario spinoffs and DK games at the time (the only DK game he missed was Jungle Beat). In contrast, K. Rool and Dixie Kong have not been in a Mario spinoff since 2008, and have been absent from the DK series since 2007. Though to be fair the only new DK game made since Brawl (aside from the Mario vs. Donkey Kong games) was Country Returns (and a port of it).

 

[Deleted member]

Until we see more of Dragon King, I do not think we can actually say Falcon's moveset comes from it. The model most likely is taken from the prototype and refined, but I'm not too convinced that the moves are.

 

[Oasis_S]

Personally I always thought Captain Falcon's moveset was borrowed from the remains of the the proto-type Smash game: Dragon King.

Be honest, you only think that because they all have human-shaped models, don't you.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

In reality jigglypuff's attacks were based on that game

 

[---]

Be honest, you only think that because they all have human-shaped models, don't you.

Why? Would it help Mach Rider get a moveset?

And yes in part. The pic does remind me a lot of Falcon, and it does make some sense that they would apply some parts of the prototype fighters for an unconventional character, with barely anything (at the most) to draw from for a moveset, that at the same time would honestly work well with together. Not to mention other factors like a small budget, not much time (no Bowser/Mewtwo/D3 or Final Smashes), and maybe the desire to keep some of the original concepts alive. OF COURSE THIS IS ALL JUST A THEORY.

 

[Neanderthal]

Be honest, you only think that because they all have human-shaped models, don't you.

I think there's more reason to believe so.
His fighting style seems to be derived from nowhere in his games or anywhere else. If they were going to come up with their own made up moveset from scratch, they might as well have made him a clone of their prototype who has the same physical figure.


Also if they were to make him from scratch without making him a clone of the prototype.... then surely they would have incorporated the gun he always carries in his holster into his moveset?

 

[Oasis_S]

He probably didn't borrow moves any more than any other character did, and his attacks are inspired by actions from his game. Sakurai also saw him as your typical Japanese super hero type, and he was made to reflect that. It hardly seems like some cobbled together effort.

 

[Angiance]

'Ey y'all. Sakurai should like, be a selectable character in Smash 4, 'n we can finally KO beat the fluff out of him for making them silly Brawl decisions-thginK ateM, gnippirt, etinifni gnigdodria, etc.

 

[Neanderthal]

He probably didn't borrow moves any more than any other character did, and his attacks are inspired by actions from his game. Sakurai also saw him as your typical Japanese super hero type, and he was made to reflect that. It hardly seems like some cobbled together effort.

I've never played any F-Zero games but I've been told his moveset is quite independent of his games.

This says otherwise too:
"The following appearances of Captain Falcon are considered non-canon since his personality and such differ from his established in the main F-Zero games and are not part of the Alt. time lines of F-Zero.

Super Smash Bros
The fighting game released on the Nintendo 64, Captain Falcon makes an appearance here as a hidden character, using a fighting style greatly different from his shown in the F-Zero comic for the original game. His personality is also quite different in that he's loud and boastful. He also poses like a Sentai Super Hero when he wins a fight."
http://www.comicvine.com/captain-falcon/4005-83955/

And like I mentioned before, he doesn't even use the gun that he always carries around in his holster which is another big hint.

Sakurai has also implied before that a clone must have the same body frame as the original to assume their moveset (When he was talking about making G'dorf a clone of Falcon). So this does make it much much more likely that he borrowed moves from the prototypes, if not being a flat out clone with some small mods.

I'm curious though which moves were taken from actions from his game?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

'Ey y'all. Sakurai should like, be a selectable character in Smash 4, 'n we can finally KO beat the fluff out of him for making them silly Brawl decisions-thginK ateM, gnippirt, etinifni gnigdodria, etc.

Halfway though that did you just decide to make up words?

 

[Vintage Creep]

I'm curious though which moves were taken from actions from his game?

None.
I'm pretty sure too he's the remains of Dragon King.

 

[Neanderthal]

None.
I'm pretty sure too he's the remains of Dragon King.

That's what I thought.

 

[Deleted member]

Take my FE poll plox:

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=51763efee4b0bd1609c69c04

 

[Vintage Creep]

I don't know Fire Emblem that well, so I voted Lucina to piss off Marth's fans.

'Ey y'all. Sakurai should like, be a selectable character in Smash 4, 'n we can finally KO beat the fluff out of him for making them silly Brawl decisions-thginK ateM, gnippirt, etinifni gnigdodria, etc.

One of the events I realized in one of my topics:


Event N.2 - Revenge Is A Dish Best Served Bloody
What? Sm4sh got delayed again? Time to teach Mr. Sakurai a lesson.
Playable: Yourself in Mii form (can be played in co-op with another Mii)
Vs: Masahiro Sakurai in Mii form
Game mode: special home-run contest.
Stage: home-run contest.
Notes: in this match you fight against a defenseless Sakurai-Mii which tries to escape while continuously tripping. You can beat him as much as you want for 15 seconds, then he stops and you have to hit him to launch him as far as you can with the home run bat. Sakurai can't be pushed outside the platform before the time runs out. Sakurai is also mysteriously holding his right arm in pain.
Unlockable: launch Sakurai at least 1500 feet away and you get Set A for Mii's customization.

 

[bobadz]

Here's why Sakurai Left HAL labs. It's really an eye opener.

It was tough for me to see that every time I made a new game, people automatically assumed that a sequel was coming. Even if it's a sequel, lots of people have to give their all to make a game, but some people think the sequel process happens naturally.

With times as they are, it's really difficult to make any money for yourself, and I know that I'm taking a big risk here. It's entirely possible that I could just fade right away without ever seeing the light of day again. But even if that happened, I've already decided to myself that I should keep on doing the work I can do, even if it's not all about games.

When I look across the entire game industry, I think we're at a point where we can't get away with being lazy. The game industry is in big trouble, don't you think? Not a lot of people can survive off game sales these days, and the possibilities that games have to offer are growing smaller and smaller, I think. If games were able to receive a certain amount of support-if people had fun with them, if they sold well-then we should be seeing more innovative, more positive games come out one after the other. But that's not the future I'm seeing right now. The risks are so big that misfiring with one title can flatten an entire company.

That's why you see places trying to stay alive by putting out tons of budget titles and re-releases. Every game company, no matter who they are, is desperate right now. So one possibility is that people will say 'I can't live off this anymore' and leave the game industry in droves. You see a lot of people use terms like 'console wars' and compare the whole thing to a fight for territory. You [the interviewer] and lots of other people in the game industry get termed 'Nintendo people' or 'Some other console's people' by someone you've never even met. But this is no time for that, I don't think.

If I want to keep producing games as a business, then staying at HAL would be a more stable place to do that. HAL has its advantages. I get a reasonable amount of pay, living in Yamanashi prefecture isn't that bad, the rent's cheap, and I get national insurance, you know?

But I don't care about that sort of stability. Right now I'm far more concerned about the fact that the game industry, which is built from the balance between developers, publishers, and users, is beginning to fall apart at the seams. I think it's possible for me, as a developer, to have people think about this problem through the development work I do. If I stay in one spot, then I can only communicate this to a limited number of people around the company, but if I can go out and reach more people, I think there are lots of people with far greater abilities than myself out there in the world. I mean, I'm entirely focused on games and I really can't do all that much myself, but if I can get in touch with people that have other great talents, then I think that will set off a chemical reaction and in the end we'll have a chance to make new games and better things. People with these talents might be at a loss at what games to make, and perhaps I can help make up for that in exchange for lending me their talent. This may sound idealistic, but it's really what I think.

If one game sells 40,000 copies and another one sells 20,000 copies, then one sold twice as much as another, right? But if you work for a company, this isn't reflected much in your salary. No matter if your game sells or not, you'll get money deposited in the bank every month on the month, so sometimes you see cases where developers get indifferent towards money and lose the feeling that they're really earning what they make. On the other hand, gamers take money out of their wallets and use it to buy your game. This difference is making gamers and developers drift farther and farther away from each other.

I talked with different people from around the industry about this, and it always seemed like the people who understood what gamers want the most are the guys in sales or the guys working in the stores. But isn't that messed up? It's completely messed up that the people actually making the games are the farthest away from what gamers want. I want to do something about that. I'm not saying I want to change the game industry or anything huge like that, but I just want to do something.

But coincidentally enough-we didn't arrange this or anything-some people in this same industry, people that are fairly well known as developers go, are leaving or moving around in their companies. Other things are going on besides [Yoshiki] Okamoto's new company... It may all be a coincidence, but there are lots of people who think the way things are right now is no good, and I think it's great to see these people going in a new direction and taking the rest of the industry along with them.

I don't think I can take any large-scale work for a while, so I doubt I'll suddenly become director on some grandiose project. There is a chance I'll be involved in several titles at once, but I'll need to think over the balance involved carefully. I may be seriously involved in some, but on others I may let the director and staff at the office take care of it and stick

 

[Vintage Creep]

Well it's kinda confusing actually. Sakurai is working on big projects right now.
Anyway he is an interesting person.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's why Sakurai Left HAL labs. It's really an eye opener.

When was this posted? Link would be nice.

 

[FalKoopa]

Okay, I was gone for a couple of days. Can someone provide a brief summary of what happened after the flood of poorly drawn avatars?

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno, I've been watching South Park while drawing and trying to sell a car.

 

[Frostwraith]

Okay, I was gone for a couple of days. Can someone provide a brief summary of what happened after the flood of poorly drawn avatars?

Nothing very interesting. Just the usual mumbo jumbo about character movesets, some off topic stuff and a FE discussion next door at Golden's Speculation Chart.

 

[Vintage Creep]

It'll be the same old story till June 15th probably.

And then at least 1000 pages in a few weeks in which we analyze EVERY SINGLE PIXEL OF EVERY SINGLE FRAME of the trailer.

 

[Angiance]

Halfway though that did you just decide to make up words?

The last few words are reversed ;D

 

[Deleted member]

Nothing very interesting. Just the usual mumbo jumbo about character movesets, some off topic stuff and a FE discussion next door at Golden's Speculation Chart.

>FE discussion...

More like FE ****storm if you ask me.

 

[8-peacock-8]

SO how about those SUPER SECRET launch dates rumors from yesterday?

 

[Bowserlick]

Luckily, we all came to the conclusion that Marth and Ike are enough for FE.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So wouldn't that make... FE Awakening nonexistent?

Unless lol Chrom AT and rest is music from Awakening.

You know, I would actually see Brawl-roster unchanged, not much new additions.