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Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

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ChronoBound

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No, he said that there was a finite amount of characters where balance is a feasible thing. Meaning, at around 50-60 is about as high as you can go for a balanced roster before it comes almost impractical.
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You are thinking of the quote that Sakurai said last year (about reaching the limits of what's feasible). There was a quote shortly after Brawl's release where Sakurai talked about the "worth" of characters themselves to be placed into Smash Bros.

which is why I find it kind of weird how much more popular K. Rool seems to be
Why do you say K. Rool seems to be more popular than Ridley. Their popularity is pretty much similar to one another.
 

Hoots

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It's been theorized that this Japanese resentment extended to the entire Country franchise for quite some time, starting with Miyamoto allegedly calling it mediocre when pressured to give Yoshi's Island similar graphics and continuing with Nintendo Tokyo calling Rare's characters 'not fresh enough' during Jungle Beat's development. Now that DKCR is in the books (by Miyamoto's request, no less), it's safe to say this era is over, though K. Rool's fate is still up in the air to some extent (partially a product of DK not getting as many games as he used to).
Because "Ninjapes," essentially just evil Donkey Kongs, are the definition of 'fresh.' The hubris is astounding. At least Paon kept the Kremlings alive for a time (although the quality of that 'life' is debatable). My biggest worry is the fact that Sakurai actually thinks that all the K. Rool disguises are actually brothers. This shows that he really doesn't know/care about K. Rool enough to even consider him for the game. The only thing that gives me hope is that even Japanese Smash fans love K. Rool and think he should be playable. The lack of a new poll is a little disconcerting though.

Edit @ Dark Phazon: I completely agree. No video game company will ever be able to hold a candle to golden age Rare.
 

FlareHabanero

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Also just for clarification, but don't over analyze what would be an iconic. It's not the absolute determining thing for inclusions in Super Smash Bros., and even then it's very debatable.

The only thing that gives me hope is that even Japanese Smash fans love K. Rool and think he should be playable.
K. Rool is surprisingly popular in Japan as far as I know. I think he's within the top 5 even, but I'm not sure.
 

Dark Phazon

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You are thinking of the quote that Sakurai said last year (about reaching the limits of what's feasible). There was a quote shortly after Brawl's release where Sakurai talked about the "worth" of characters themselves to be placed into Smash Bros.
Could you please if you dont mind post his aftee quote i havent read it i think.
 
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That MAD skit kind of reminds me of another one called "Diary of A Wimpy Kid Icarus", where it was basically a reflection of Pit and Kirby going through high school and Mario, Donkey Kong, and Mega Man were school bullies. The skit ends in a Super Smash Bros. parody where the 5 fight in a similar fashion, and (I think) Pit came out victories by the skin of his teeth.

It's weird because I'm not a fan of MAD. But it's odd how Mega Man was the only one that isn't in a Super Smash Bros. game as of yet, but maybe I'm just simply over analyzing things.
Wait, seriously? I gotta see this.

K. Rool, too, would have scaly skin, metallic accessories, and flowing cloth. So I guess there's that going for K. Rool.
"With these FAAAAAAANGS, and this scaly skiiiiiiin, there's no question that we're family, next of kiiiiin~"
 

Oasis_S

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Why do you say K. Rool seems to be more popular than Ridley. Their popularity is pretty much similar to one another.
Isn't K. Rool more internationally popular? WHICH ITSELF IS WEIRD, since it was my understanding that Metroid was popular in Japan, just not the Prime series. So you'd think Ridley would be more popular after his appearance in Other M (which was relatively successful in Japan, yeah?).
 

Ridley_Prime

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Reminds me of when I went onto a forum discussion about Metroid's 25th and why Nintendo hasn't done anything yet. Mentioned to them that Metroid wasn't a major franchise in Japan and that it wasn't one of the Big 3/5 in terms of sales, there was several pages of nonstop flaming because of it.
Blame Other M's failure for Nintendo not caring enough to do anything about Metroid's 25th like they did their precious Zelda. They were right about it not being big in Japan though, or partly.

My biggest worry is the fact that Sakurai actually thinks that all the K. Rool disguises are actually brothers.
... what?

Haven't been this dumbstruck in awhile...
 

ChronoBound

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Isn't K. Rool more internationally popular? WHICH ITSELF IS WEIRD, since it was my understanding that Metroid was popular in Japan, just not the Prime series. So you'd think Ridley would be more popular after his appearance in Other M (which was relatively successful in Japan, yeah?).
Yes, K. Rool is definitely much more requested than Ridley is in Japan. But in the West its another story.

Metroid has not been a big seller in Japan since Super Metroid (which sold over 700K). Since then the only Metroid game to have sold over 150K in Japan was Metroid Fusion.

Every other Metroid game since then sold under 100K. And no, Other M sold pretty poorly in Japan too. Both Prime 1 and Prime Hunters sold better than Other M did in Japan.
 
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Lol, that is one of the few MAD things I like. (Though nothing beats out the Donkey Strong skit. :troll:)
 

BKupa666

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Favorited that MAD video in a heartbeat.

The 'K. Rool brothers' error could mess up series canon, but it wouldn't keep the character out of Smash, since it wouldn't be the first time a character (or a series of characters) has 'learned' moves from friends.
 

FlareHabanero

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Anyway on the subject of K. Rool being popular in Japan.

At first I was kind of baffled by it, considering that villains of his stature are normally not the fan favorite over there. But I guess it does make some sense considering the Donkey Kong Country trilogy were just as strong saleswise, and actually a tad stronger in the case of the second and third games. Not to mention from what I've understand the Donkey Kong Country cartoon actually has a bigger cult status in Japan, even having exclusive material based around the show.
 

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I think Duck Hunt Dog is pretty famous for someone who only appeared in one NES game in 1985 (as far as the general population knows). I am baffled over the fact he is pretty much the only Nintendo character to get over 1,000 likes on Facebook.
 

Oasis_S

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Yes, K. Rool is definitely much more requested than Ridley is in Japan. But in the West its another story.

Metroid has not been a big seller in Japan since Super Metroid (which sold over 700K). Since then the only Metroid game to have sold over 150K in Japan was Metroid Fusion.

Every other Metroid game since then sold under 100K. And no, Other M sold pretty poorly in Japan too. Both Prime 1 and Prime Hunters sold better than Other M did in Japan.
HURM. Any idea why K. Rool gets so much love then over THERE. It is a little surprising, right?
Bunch of ingrates. How dare they not love Ridley as much as I DO. HUUUARRGH *FONT 1 FLEX*

EDIT: WELL OKAY.
 

ChronoBound

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Anyway on the subject of K. Rool being popular in Japan.

At first I was kind of baffled by it, considering that villains of his stature are normally not the fan favorite over there. But I guess it does make some sense considering the Donkey Kong Country trilogy were just as strong saleswise, and actually a tad stronger in the case of the second and third games. Not to mention from what I've understand the Donkey Kong Country cartoon actually has a bigger cult status in Japan, even having exclusive material based around the show.
Even DKC3 sold like 1.8 or 1.9 million copies in Japan alone. DK64 was a million-seller too despite the N64 only having a 5.5 million install base in Japan (meaning DK64 sold to almost 20% of people who owned a 64).

So yeah, a part of how popular K. Rool is in Japan is owed to how massively successful Rare's DK games were in Japan.

Melee sold around 1.5 million copies on a installbase of only four million for the GameCube in Japan.
 

BKupa666

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Anyway on the subject of K. Rool being popular in Japan.

At first I was kind of baffled by it, considering that villains of his stature are normally not the fan favorite over there. But I guess it does make some sense considering the Donkey Kong Country trilogy were just as strong saleswise, and actually a tad stronger in the case of the second and third games. Not to mention from what I've understand the Donkey Kong Country cartoon actually has a bigger cult status in Japan, even having exclusive material based around the show.
The Donkey Kong Country cartoon is accepted as canon in Japan. :troll:
 

FlareHabanero

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The stronger popularity of Donkey Kong Country 2 & 3 (especially the latter) might also be a reason why Dixie Kong has more popularity in Japan then everywhere else.
 

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Really? DKC3 is more popular in Japan than in the West? Ohhhh, I hope Sakurai reconsiders a Kong team for SSB4 with Dixie & Kiddy instead of Diddy & Dixie. :awesome:

Shoot! It would even give hackers appropriate models to make Dixie & Kiddy look like original Tiny & Chunky. Hell, hack Kiddy to look like Donkey Kong Jr., too. ;)
 

Bowserlick

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Ridley would also give all those sword-wielders a dragon to fight.

Event Mode: Slay the Dragon
 

Shorts

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I'm hoping Sakurai didn't simply see Dixie as an "addition" to Diddy, and scrapped her completely because she doesn't stand on her own in his eyes. Because, we know she was scrapped because of the duo not working out. But, what scrap her completely? For the same reasons as Mewtwo/Roy, or... did she just get scrapped completely?

And yeah, Mewtwo could have a sort of Jun revival.

Bowser, Mewtwo, Ganondorf, Ridley, Wolf, King K. Rool, would be a nice set of villains. Wario and Dedede I suppose could be considered as well.
 

Bowserlick

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Forgot about Charizard. Bowser doesn't count because he doesn't have wings. Only a flying clown car.
 

ChronoBound

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The stronger popularity of Donkey Kong Country 2 & 3 (especially the latter) might also be a reason why Dixie Kong has more popularity in Japan then everywhere else.
A few years ago, I was looking at Japanese software charts during the late 1990's, and damn did DKC3 have long legs. It was still selling a modest amount even in 1998. However, DKC1 and DKC2 definitely did sell more overall (I think DKC2 sold over 2.5 million in Japan, and DKC1 sold over three million in Japan).
 

FlareHabanero

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Also slightly unrelated, but I wonder why people in Japan don't really care much for the retro stuff. Even the Japanese exclusive ones like Nazo no Murasame Jo and Panel De Pon are rarely brought up much.
 

ChronoBound

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Also slightly unrelated, but I wonder why people in Japan don't really care much for the retro stuff. Even the Japanese exclusive ones like Nazo no Murasame Jo and Panel De Pon are rarely brought up much.
I really have no idea. Lip was popularly requested during pre-Melee, and her name was still thrown around a bit during pre-Brawl. I think for at least Panel de Pon maybe the Japanese Lip fans lost hope after Lip not getting in for Melee and Brawl? And possibly further demoralized by Intelligent Systems hiding Lip in the closest for the last two Panel de Pon releases (which had a generic theme for those games, although a Lip theme was unlockable in the Japanese version of Panel de Pon DS).
 
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Not to mention from what I've understand the Donkey Kong Country cartoon actually has a bigger cult status in Japan, even having exclusive material based around the show.
This may explain why DK has the Giant Punch, considering that he used it in the pilot episode.

The Donkey Kong Country cartoon is accepted as canon in Japan. :troll:
Wait, seriously? Or does the trollface mean you're joking?
 
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I'm pretty disappointed that we're probably never going to get an SNES retro rep.

Lip would have been a great addition and I would very much enjoy a puzzle rep in Smash (which is why I also entertain the idea of Professor Layton though to a lesser extent and don't mind Dr. Mario either). Sadly, Lip, like half the characters I want, are likely just dream characters.
 

FlareHabanero

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I really have no idea. Lip was popularly requested during pre-Melee, and her name was still thrown around a bit during pre-Brawl. I think for at least Panel de Pon maybe the Japanese Lip fans lost hope after Lip not getting in for Melee and Brawl? And possibly further demoralized by Intelligent Systems hiding Lip in the closest for the last two Panel de Pon releases (which had a generic theme for those games, although a Lip theme was unlockable in the Japanese version of Panel de Pon DS).
You'd think at least the cameo of Lip in Captain Rainbow and the Lip theme in the Japanese version of Planet Puzzle League would of at least ensured that Intelligent Systems has not forgotten Lip entirely and prevented stagnation to an extent, but whatever.

Lip would have been a great addition and I would very much enjoy a puzzle rep in Smash (which is why I also entertain the idea of Professor Layton though to a lesser extent and don't mind Dr. Mario either). Sadly, Lip, like half the characters I want, are likely just dream characters.
I'm kind of in a similar boat. Lip to me would be a character that would be kind of like Jigglypuff or Peach; looks docile but is actually very lethal. Could bring something new to the table like the ability to inflict the flower status naturally or have the ability to gain power from preforming combos.
 

BKupa666

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This may explain why DK has the Giant Punch, considering that he used it in the pilot episode.

Wait, seriously? Or does the trollface mean you're joking?
I'm not joking, based on what I've heard...the trollface is my reaction, considering how shunned the cartoon is by most everyone else (and called 'Lord Harry' by some, just so they avoid attaching the DKC label to it).
 

ChronoBound

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You'd think at least the cameo of Lip in Captain Rainbow and the Lip theme in the Japanese version of Planet Puzzle League would of at least ensured that Intelligent Systems has not forgotten Lip entirely and prevented stagnation to an extent, but whatever.
For at least Captain Rainbow, that game bombed very badly in Japan (it sold less than 10K), so only a few Panel de Pon fans probably knew about her appearance in that game. Also, you had to be very good at Panel de Pon in order to meet the conditions to unlock her theme in Panel de Pon DS.

Panel de Pon DS fwiw sold around 155K in Japan, which was better than what the latest installments for Famicom Wars, Punch-Out, Sin & Punishment, Custom Robo, Starfy, and Golden Sun sold in Japan.

Intelligent Systems saying that they eventually revisit their franchises makes me think we will probably eventually see a new Panel de Pon (it will either be a 3DS or 3DSWare title though).
 
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My choices for retros will be Takamaru and Sheriff until I start seeing more of the game to make any possible changes.

I wonder if Japan really likes to stay current or something.
 
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I'm not joking, based on what I've heard...the trollface is my reaction, considering how shunned the cartoon is by most everyone else (and called 'Lord Harry' by some, just so they avoid attaching the DKC label to it).
Wow. If it's really seen as canon, then that DEFINITELY is why DK has Giant Punch.
Now I'm going to have to see if there is anything in it that possibly inspired Headbutt....or Spinning Kong......or even Diddy's Monkey Flip.....
And in that case, I can see K. Rool being given a Klaptrap Kannon of sorts.....
 

FlareHabanero

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I'm pretty sure Headbutt, Spinning Kong, and Monkey Flip are improvised attacks and are not related to the cartoon. I've seen the cartoon myself, so I can clarify if possible.
 
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Are you sure? Headbutt definitely seems like something that would come from it at the very least.

And K. Rool with Klap-Blaster semi-confirmed. :troll:
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I'm certain Nintendo has no problem using ideas from other mediums as long as the character them self originated in a video game
 
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