Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Curious Villager]

This is what I came up with for my Kitsune character for the OC thread, which has a similar ability.

Oh that sounds pretty interesting, but wouldn't that be more of a transformation than an illusion? But this does do a better job at fooling your opponent into thinking you're a different character. (except in vs mode when you blatantly choose Zoroark right in front of them but I guess that can't be helped)

She would certainly be a pretty interesting character though imo.

That's actually how I envision her as well. Because a lot of Dark type moves revolve around "dirty tricks", like Sucker Punch, Foul Play, Torment. etc, I think there could be some neat mind games with Zoroark. Yep, you won't see me complaining if she got in...And I do hope that if she does happen to get in she will live in harmony with Mewtwo, Lucario, and the rest of the Brawl Pokemon.

There could be indeed, and I hope she does get a cool moveset of tricks that she can make use of if she does become playable. She was fun to use in Pokemon, I can imagine her being pretty fun to play as in smash too.

Yeah I hope so too. ^_^

 

[Popsydoodles]

i could live with this duo as long as they were a duo character.

Also screw relevance in this case! I want another character like ice climbers!

 

[Moon Monkey]

Lanky and Cranky would be hot.

Cranky would be hilarious! Lankey was also my fav Kong in DK64. I just want more Kongs in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Dixie/Kiddy would be the next viable option for a Kong team. Though many people are against it because Kiddy isn't relevant.

I think it has less to do with Kiddy being irrelevant and more to do with Kiddy being an annoying piece of ****. Dixie is what pulled DKC3.


Diddy-Dixie would be the classic, regardless of what people say. DKC2 is considered by many to be the GOAT 2D platformer.

Yeah, I remember that there was an Issue of Gamepro where they speculated that Marth/Roy would be cut because Ike and Lyn would be "enough" to represent the franchise. Oh, and they also thought Jigglypuff and Ness might be cut.

Oh, if only....


Goddamn, we were so close last time.

It could have easily been Marth, Ike and Lyn.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Oh, if only....


Goddamn, we were so close last time.

It could have easily been Marth, Ike and Lyn.

No, they meant Lyn as an AT. They literally said something to the extent of "Ike being playable and Lyn being an AT might be enough for Fire Emblem, so Marth and Roy might not come back." I wish I still had the issue, but it's either at my parents house or it's been thrown out.

*facepalm*

 

[ChronoBound]

But you yourself mentioned how people considered clones to be Melee's biggest flaw.

I know people can grow to love them. But I'm sure people would love them more if there was a bit more creativity in the concept.

Only some people did. For most people, they did not mind them (the only clones they complained about were the altego ones such as Pichu, Dr. Mario, and Young Link).

Falco and Roy were among the most popular newcomers introduced in Melee, while Toon Link was a popular character as well (I am not going to count Lucas and Wolf as clones).

 

[Opossum]

So anyway, I made a roster update. Mainly in that I added Chrom, as I do feel that four FE characters would still be reasonable. After all, three were planned for Brawl.

The white space is because lolPaint.


I've also been considering swapping Chrom for a Chrom and Lucina duo, but I'm still on the fence as far as likelihood with it.

Anyway, I tried to keep the roster reasonable with a few surprises thrown in (mainly with Goroh, Starfy, and Muddy).

 

[Deleted member]

No, they meant Lyn as an AT. They literally said something to the extent of "Ike being playable and Lyn being an AT might be enough for Fire Emblem, so Marth and Roy might not come back." I wish I still had the issue, but it's either at my parents house or it's been thrown out.

*facepalm*

Well thats just dumb then...

However, they were half right, as it's almost what we got.

Marth is never getting cut though....

Only some people did. For most people, they did not mind them (the only clones they complained about were the altego ones such as Pichu, Dr. Mario, and Young Link).

Falco and Roy were among the most popular newcomers introduced in Melee, while Toon Link was a popular character as well (I am not going to count Lucas and Wolf as clones).

Wolf isn't a clone, but Lucas sure damn is...

A handfull of different moves don't change him enough. His and Ness strategies are near identical. In fact I think he only has 3 different moves and a tether to separate him from Ness.

Wolf has the benefit of his feral style and strategy being totally different from Fox and Falco, like literally the only similarity is the FS and reflector.

Toon Link was popular imo because he was a requested character. I would know, I was a supporter, but like I said, to me, and many others he was also a bitter disappointment. We tried to justify it for a while, but honestly it was a lame cop out.

 

[SmashShadow]

So it's pretty safe to say Ness will be coming back with Earthbound coming to the Wii U.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I think it has less to do with Kiddy being irrelevant and more to do with Kiddy being an annoying piece of ****. Dixie is what pulled DKC3.
Diddy-Dixie would be the classic, regardless of what people say. DKC2 is considered by many to be the GOAT 2D platformer.

I will admit that DKC 3 was not my fave, but hay Kiddy could have been more annoying...

Spoiler

 

[SmashShadow]

@Manly Lucas had wayyyy more than 3 moves different from Ness. Dash Attack, side tilt, up smash, down smash, jab, up tilt, forward air, down air, neutral air, down throw. A semi-clone but definitely not a full on clone.

 

[FalKoopa]

So it's pretty safe to say Ness will be coming back with Earthbound coming to the Wii U.

Ness is the face of the Mother franchise, and also a part of the original 12. He is as good as confirmed even without the VC release.

 

[Deleted member]

@Manly Lucas had wayyyy more than 3 moves different from Ness. Dash Attack, side tilt, up smash, down smash, jab, up tilt, forward air, down air, neutral air, down throw. A semi-clone but definitely not a full on clone.

I can't remember, I remember him having better moves than Ness, but still following the same strategy. I still say they should just merge the two and make a decent character out of them. Both are meek and pathetic and look near identical barring the hair. Lucas can very well be a costume like Doc Mario can.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I'm excited for Earthbound coming to the VC.

I've never actually played the game before but I've heard great things.

 

[FalKoopa]

I can't remember, I remember him having better moves than Ness, but still following the same strategy. I still say they should just merge the two and make a decent character out of them. Both are meek and pathetic and look near identical barring the hair. Lucas can very well be a costume like Doc Mario can.

Better luigify both of them instead.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I've also been considering swapping Chrom for a Chrom and Lucina duo, but I'm still on the fence as far as likelihood with it.

That is an interesting concept. It would work too Awakening did introduce the pair-up mechanic if i'm not mistaken.

 

[Curious Villager]

I've played Earthbound before (Through a rom though) and it was indeed such a fun experience. Itoi did a great job with this game. Glad to know I can finally actually purchase this game... once I have a Wii U... ^^;

 

[Popsydoodles]

I can't remember, I remember him having better moves than Ness, but still following the same strategy. I still say they should just merge the two and make a decent character out of them. Both are meek and pathetic and look near identical barring the hair. Lucas can very well be a costume like Doc Mario can.

nope. Lucas is just way to awesome to not be his own character. I'd rather have him then ness and that stupid yoyo.

 

[SmashShadow]

I can't remember, I remember him having better moves than Ness, but still following the same strategy. I still say they should just merge the two and make a decent character out of them. Both are meek and pathetic and look near identical barring the hair. Lucas can very well be a costume like Doc Mario can.

The difference is, Ness and Lucas are different characters. It would be like someone suggesting you combine Mario and Luigi to make a better Mario/Luigi. Besides, it's not like they can't be made to have a more diverse moveset. Final smash is already likely to change and possibly a special or 2 as well.

 

[Deleted member]

On the subject of clones, I used to completely dislike the concept (because like with my Krystal support in the past, it was more or less the hive mind complex because people were so vocal about it), but as time went on and I started to think to myself, I became less disliking of clones as long as they made sense as clones. Situations like Captain Ganon however, are unacceptable to me.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I find it weird how Manly thinks Ness and Lucas are hardly different, yet thinks that Fox and Wolf are hardly similar. Don't know, but that sounds kind of odd to me.

 

[Popsydoodles]

The difference is, Ness and Lucas are different characters. It would be like someone suggesting you combine Mario and Luigi to make a better Mario/Luigi. Besides, it's not like they can't be made to have a more diverse moveset. Final smash is already likely to change and possibly a special or 2 as well.

I play Lucas the most out of all the characters in Brawl (I would say main but i play casually and with all the characters pretty frequently) and tbh i don't really ever use his down b or neutral b. though I try to fit them in they are just pointless most of the time

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Lucas should have his moveset from P:M. Less clone-y and more faithful to how he actually plays in Mother 3. Problem solved.

 

[Oasis_S]

I wish I was back in the Brawl days so I could use Earthbound's VC release as evidence for a BOOST IN CHANCES for Porky.

 

[Croph]

I can't remember, I remember him having better moves than Ness, but still following the same strategy. I still say they should just merge the two and make a decent character out of them. Both are meek and pathetic and look near identical barring the hair. Lucas can very well be a costume like Doc Mario can.

I am curious as to why you think the two follow the same strategy. Now, I'm just a casual mind you, but I wouldn't think about using the same strategies I use with Lucas with Ness. When I play Lucas, I like to play more offensive, spam/space PK Fire short hops, as well as focus on some mind games like Zap Jumping, Magent Pull, reverse Maget Pull, PKT2, etc...there's just so much different moves/techniques that differentiate the two...idk maybe it's just me...

 

[ChronoBound]

Well thats just dumb then...

However, they were half right, as it's almost what we got.

Marth is never getting cut though....


Wolf isn't a clone, but Lucas sure damn is...

A handfull of different moves don't change him enough. His and Ness strategies are near identical. In fact I think he only has 3 different moves and a tether to separate him from Ness.

Wolf has the benefit of his feral style and strategy being totally different from Fox and Falco, like literally the only similarity is the FS and reflector.

No, Roy was almost what we got. Lyn was always planned as an Assist Trophy.

As for your stuff about Lucas, you are completely wrong. Lucas only shares five moves with Ness (the same amount as Wolf does with Fox). Heck, it may only be four moves if you count PK Freeze as different from PK Flash. All of Lucas's A-moves and throws are different from Ness.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I presume Lyn would of at least have been considered if the bulk of the support for the character happened prior to the roster being finalized in 2005. Most of Lyn's support was strongest around 2006-2007-ish, when the roster was finalized barring Sonic.

Same applies to other characters like Saki, Issac, and Goroh.

 

[ChronoBound]

I presume Lyn would of at least have been considered if the bulk of the support for the character happened prior to the roster being finalized in 2005. Most of Lyn's support was strongest around 2006-2007-ish, when the roster was finalized barring Sonic..

It was after the Brawl unveil that Lyn became a more dominant choice for a FE newcomer (due in large part to Sakurai's statement pertaining to ZSS). Before then, she was no more requested than Hector and Ephraim (or Ike for that matter). Lots of female character fanbases were invigorated by Sakurai's statement for ZSS, and misinterpreted it as Sakurai saying he would choose a female character over a male character competing for a spot.

After Brawl's Lyn's support depreciated massively (even to a larger extent than Geno and Krystal). Much of her fanbase moved onto Micaiah, even after Brawl was released. After a while the Micaiah fanbase moved on to Caeda/Sheeda.

 

[Deleted member]

I find it weird how Manly thinks Ness and Lucas are hardly different, yet thinks that Fox and Wolf are hardly similar. Don't know, but that sounds kind of odd to me.

Maybe it's because I just don't like Lucas's design in general. I also haven't played Mother 3 mind you...

Hey, I'm allowed to be biased too.

I am curious as to why you think the two follow the same strategy. Now, I'm just a casual mind you, but I wouldn't think about using the same strategies I use with Lucas with Ness. When I play Lucas, I like to play more offensive, spam/space PK Fire short hops, as well as focus on some mind games like Zap Jumping, Magent Pull, reverse Maget Pull, PKT2, etc...there's just so much different moves/techniques that differentiate the two...idk maybe it's just me...

Well, both are long range zoners using the same tools to get the job done. Perhaps if Lucas had boost moves, or something else to really set him aside from Ness, he'd be more acceptable. But every time I play Lucas I wish he had some of Ness's moves, and everytime I play Ness I wish he had some of Lucas's moves. It's just both are so mediocre.

 

[FalKoopa]

After a while the Micaiah fanbase moved on to Caeda/Sheeda.

So where are they now? Lucina?

 

[Frostwraith]

So where are they now? Lucina?

Nope, Nowi is where they are! They're just being quiet...

 

[ChronoBound]

So where are they now? Lucina?

Divided between Lucina, Anna, and some My Unit.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I am well aware of the whole female fiasco, but I was pointing out that if a certain character (not just Lyn) was popular enough prior to 2005 when the roster was complete, the character might of at least been considered. For example, most of Saki's support came in 2007, but because the majority of the support came around that time and there wasn't a desire for late additions, Sakurai "did the best he could" by making him an Assist Trophy. Theoretically if the support came a few years back, Saki might of been potentially on the roster.

 

[FalKoopa]

Nope, Nowi is where they are! They're just being quiet...

Divided between Lucina, Anna, and some My Unit.

Quite surprised no one brought up Tharja.

 

[ChronoBound]

Wolf was far more popular than Krystal in the West back in 2005 (and even during her height she was merely even with him, it was really after 2006 with Sakurai's ZSS statement that she really took off), so maybe you are onto something.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well I just looking back by looking at varies information as a form of speculating for the future. In Brawl, since the roster was finished in 2005 and there wasn't a desire for late additions (barring Sonic), all later support were compensated by giving them a certain role. In other words, while the character isn't on the roster, they are still recognized in some way and included in the most productive way possible. Which is probably why characters like Saki and Lyn are Assist Trophies, and why Ridley gets two boss fights instead of the typical one like the other bosses have.

I speculate a similar situation might happen with the 4th game. Any late support will be compensated in some way, like an Assist Trophy cameo.

 

[Popsydoodles]

Well I just looking back by looking at varies information as a form of speculating for the future. In Brawl, since the roster was finished in 2005 and there wasn't a desire for late additions (barring Sonic), all later support were compensated by giving them a certain role. In other words, while the character isn't on the roster, they are still recognized in some way and included in the most productive way possible. Which is probably why characters like Saki and Lyn are Assist Trophies, and why Ridley gets two boss fights instead of the typical one the other bosses have.

geno...as an....AT...

 

[ChronoBound]

and why Ridley gets two boss fights instead of the typical one like the other bosses have.

Ridley was very popularly requested in the West since Melee's unveil in May 2001.

 

[Croph]

Wait, so Saki could of potentially been playable if he was popular before the completion of Brawl's roster? If I may ask, how popular was he during pre-Brawl? I'm guessing the release of S&P on VC made his support go up?

 

[FalKoopa]

OK guys, we will start supporting Duck Hunt Dog after E3.