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Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

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Swamp Sensei

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After some more refining, I feel my roster is now at a state of it not needing to be messed with untill E3 comes around. The only things I'm iffy about is the fact that I'll probably keep switching between Crom, Roy and Ike as far as FE spots go, as well as their potential designs. Also kinda curious to see if any other project rainfall characters are viable, as Aeron from Pandora's Tower sounds awesome.
All it really needs is Lucario
 
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I was thinking, I would really like it IF we ended up getting two Fire Emblem characters that one go to Roy/Chrom, and the other to a more "interesting" Fire Emblem character.

How would your FE roster look under this criteria?

Marth
Roy
Ike
Micaiah

would be mine.
It's impossible to have a selection that would make everyone happy in regard to FE, however, if you wanna please the majority of the fanbase, the ideal route would be:

Marth
Ike
Roy
Lyn

I don't think many would complain with that.

However, we'll all just have to bear it and grin as we'll most likely have:

Marth
Ike
Chrom
 

BKupa666

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One thing to keep in mind that it's being consistent even after a whole year since the release of Kid Icarus: Uprising. So it's more then simply a petty bandwagon.
Not to boast too much, buuuut...it's nice to be validated regarding the popularity of Uprising characters. At times a few years back, it felt like I was an outlier for saying Medusa wasn't a lock for SSB4 back during the trailer phases of Uprising, where people declared her as such just for existing. Now, we have a great important and popular character in Palutena that we have every reason to get behind as a potential newcomer.
 

Fastblade5035

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However, we'll all just have to bear it and grin as we'll most likely have:

Marth
Ike
Chrom
I'll gladly take that. Really, the only FE Character I DONT Want is Roy and/or Someone's favorite from a game that is irrelevent and old, as well as unpopular. And Micaiah.
 

Banjodorf

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IMAGE

After some more refining, I feel my roster is now at a state of it not needing to be messed with untill E3 comes around. The only things I'm iffy about is the fact that I'll probably keep switching between Crom, Roy and Ike as far as FE spots go, as well as their potential designs. Also kinda curious to see if any other project rainfall characters are viable, as Aeron from Pandora's Tower sounds awesome.
I could dig this. It's pretty similar to my personal roster with a couple exceptions:

Lucario
Dixie instead of Lloyd
Goroh instead of Saki
Chrom instead of Dillon

Not to say I don't support these guys, and I'd totally think they'd awesome if they got added. (Although I'm really just not a fan of Saki, but that's an opinion and will mean nothing whether he's playable or not.)

Yay!
 

FalKoopa

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Also, I think Manly's post is a reference to the song "Together, We Ride!" from the soundtrack.
 

FlareHabanero

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Not to boast too much, buuuut...it's nice to be validated regarding the popularity of Uprising characters. At times a few years back, it felt like I was an outlier for saying Medusa wasn't a lock for SSB4 back during the trailer phases of Uprising, where people declared her as such just for existing. Now, we have a great important and popular character in Palutena that we have every reason to get behind as a potential newcomer.
Well to be fair, trailers only showed the first rough 9 chapters of the game that focused on Medusa and the Underworld Army. At the time we were all tricked that Medusa was going to be the main antagonist and was going to be a big focus of the plot, while Palutena was simply going to be exposition fodder.

Kind of ironic it's the opposite from what we expected.
 

Diddy Kong

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I think I prefered Medusa back in those days to due to being a villain. And damn it, I still kinda hope she'll be a (mid) boss in Smash this time. Cause why not?
 

Opossum

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Still Wifi hopping...bah.

Glad to see the thread's back. Hopefully I'll update my roster by the end of the week.
 

Shorts

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After some more refining, I feel my roster is now at a state of it not needing to be messed with untill E3 comes around. The only things I'm iffy about is the fact that I'll probably keep switching between Crom, Roy and Ike as far as FE spots go, as well as their potential designs. Also kinda curious to see if any other project rainfall characters are viable, as Aeron from Pandora's Tower sounds awesome.
"Mewthree" is really Mewtwo's new form btw.

Overall it's a good conservative roster. I can't see any glaring eyesores really. 14 additions, 12 newcomers, 2 returning vets. 4 third party characters may be a bit of wishful thinking, but you never know I guess.

My personal insticnts would be to cut Lloyd/Megaman for another Nintendo character, and cut Isaac/Dillion/Saki for a new character from an existing franchise of your choosing. Be it Lucario, Goroh, Dixie, or hey, even a random character for some spice like Porky or Medusa. Solid conservative roster though.
 

kikaru

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After some more refining, I feel my roster is now at a state of it not needing to be messed with untill E3 comes around. The only things I'm iffy about is the fact that I'll probably keep switching between Crom, Roy and Ike as far as FE spots go, as well as their potential designs. Also kinda curious to see if any other project rainfall characters are viable, as Aeron from Pandora's Tower sounds awesome.
This and Swamp's roster are the best I've seen/ the ones I agree with most. However, like Swamp's roster there are about 5 character inclusions/exclusions I disagree with unless you count Miis. On the other hand your roster is by far the prettiest :) How did you do that?
 

Banjodorf

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I was wondering the same thing actualy; where did half of that character art come from? For K. Rool, Ridley, Ganon, etc....
 

Swamp Sensei

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Bowser looks like a cow in that picture.
 

Ninka_kiwi

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I can get behind that roster, though I'd sorely miss Lucario.
I didn't actually realize how many fans of Lucario their were... Though honsetly I feel like we are either getting Zororark, Mewthree, both of them, and no Lucario...

Hopefully I'm proved wrong as I actually do dig Lucario.

^ No Lucario, no like. Oh, and Sheik. Aside from that, I'm cool with it.
Sheik is implied to be part of Zelda, I just didn't add Sheik to Zelda's select portrait. I might update her pic if people don't just assume Sheik is also there.

This and Swamp's roster are the best I've seen/ the ones I agree with most. However, like Swamp's roster there are about 5 character inclusions/exclusions I disagree with unless you count Miis. On the other hand your roster is by far the prettiest :) How did you do that?
Most of the really good renders come from KCMM forums, a brawl modding forum. There is an awesome guy by the name of SJS that does high quality CSS portarits for modeled brawl characters.
Any character he didn't make a CSP for I made myself using photoshop/official artwork/brawlbox to get nice rendered models. Here's a link for those interested to his thread.
http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=8348.0 I wanted a nice unified look for the roster, so using his renders for a majority of it, mixed with some other models and renders ended up paying off.

"Mewthree" is really Mewtwo's new form btw.

Overall it's a good conservative roster. I can't see any glaring eyesores really. 14 additions, 12 newcomers, 2 returning vets. 4 third party characters may be a bit of wishful thinking, but you never know I guess.

My personal insticnts would be to cut Lloyd/Megaman for another Nintendo character, and cut Isaac/Dillion/Saki for a new character from an existing franchise of your choosing. Be it Lucario, Goroh, Dixie, or hey, even a random character for some spice like Porky or Medusa. Solid conservative roster though.
Yeah I was thinking of adding a character like the Masked Man from Mother 3, Medusa, and even the Tom Nook, but at that point I thought it started getting a bit congested. Masked Man would defiently be a close contender. As for 3rd parties, they are more like Place holders I guess, as I personally think we will get two more on top of what we already have.

Thanks for all the posts guys, I'm having a lot of fun with this roster, essentially when I saw some of the really cool looking rosters in the roster sohwing thread (such as N3ON's) It made me want to make something that looked unified and good.
 
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You're heavily exaggerating Waluigi's potential did you know that?
Not really. Considering that he has random over the top abilities within the series he hails from, having more made just for Smash isn't so strange. I hate using the term "blank canvas", but it's kind of what Waluigi is.

Remember how Sakurai only counted Animal Crossing and Pikmin as the only new franchises worthy of having characters in Brawl? Well, it turns out that those two along with Nintendogs, Big Brain Academy, and Wii Sports are the only new franchises created by Nintendo EAD between Melee and Brawl. As for the retro franchises, Nazo no Murasame Jou (Tamakaru's game) and Mole Mania (Muddy Mole's game) were made by Nintendo EAD. That's pretty much it.
Remember how I confirmed that to be false quite a while ago?
He didn't say that they were the only ones "worthy". That was a mistranslation.
What he ACTUALLY SAID was that there weren't any series after Pikmin that had a character suitable as a playable fighter.


Remember how Sakurai considered Balloon Fighter, Bubbles, Excitebiker, and Urban Champion before he picked Ice Climbers for Melee? Well, it turns out that Balloon Fight, Clu Clu Land, Excitebike, and Urban Champion are NES games developed by R&D1. Other games developed by R&D1 are Devil World, Duck Hunt :troll:, For the Frog the Bell Tolls, Gumshoe, Hogan's Alley, Sheriff :glare:, Wario's Woods :awesome:, Wild Gunman, and Wrecking Crew.
Except that those were merely made up excuses as to why the Ice Climbers were the best choice other than stating the obvious: they were picked to incorporate a gimmick.
There is no indication that Sakurai seriously considered Balloon Fighter, Bubbles, Excitebiker, or Urban Champion. What he said in the Ice Climbers' page in Melee was that he made a list of possible options for an NES character, and put them all through a process of elimination, giving the four mentioned as examples while stating that the Ice Climbers had no such issue.
In fact, going by what Sakurai said about the character he wanted to see most in "Smash 2", one would think that he'd consider Mach Rider before seriously considering any of them.

If Sakurai did not add popular second-party Nintendo characters like Isaac and Saki over less popular first-party Nintendo characters like R.O.B. and Zero Suit Samus in Brawl, why would Sakurai add a popular second-party Mario character like Waluigi over less popular first-party Mario character like Toad or Bowser Jr. in SSB4?
I'm going to have to stop you there.
The character roster lineup was "finalized" by July 2005 with the sole exception of Sonic, added in early 2007. Saki's popularity in Japan for Brawl didn't really come until after then. Hence why Sakurai said he "did what he could to include him" by making him an Assist.
Isaac and the Golden Sun series as a whole was not really popular in Japan, and Isaac's requests for Brawl, like Saki's, were after the roster had been finalized.
Sakurai would have no reason to include either of them back when he was deciding characters.

And since you're inevitably going to counter about Zero Suit Samus and R.O.B., Zamus was added because Sakurai wanted to give Metroid another character (and had no reason to believe Ridley was a decent option at the time given that like Saki and Isaac, he would not see Ridley's popularity until later), and R.O.B. is pretty damn historic to Nintendo.
 

SmashChu

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I would say you forgot:
Tingle - He's shown up in Smash twice, and seems to be getting bigger roles each time. He's got the moveset potential, and sort of reigns as the fourth most prominent Zelda character. (Behind Link, Ganondorf, and Zelda of course)
Isaac - Not my cup of tea, but he's a lot of people's cup of tea. And if we're gonna consider Little Mac and Shulk, might as well bring up him.
Krystal - Got everything a character needs, just a matter of weather or not Sakurai cares to add her.

But hey, what do I know
I agree with you on Issac and Krystal. They have a shot. I disagree with Tingle. He is a character people hate. This is also why he wasn't in TP or SS.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Most of the really good renders come from KCMM forums, a brawl modding forum. There is an awesome guy by the name of SJS that does high quality CSS portarits for modeled brawl characters.
Any character he didn't make a CSP for I made myself using photoshop/official artwork/brawlbox to get nice rendered models. Here's a link for those interested to his thread.
http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=8348.0 I wanted a nice unified look for the roster, so using his renders for a majority of it, mixed with some other models and renders ended up paying off.
Those were so good I had to change my avatar!

Go Ivysaur!
 

Shorts

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42 character roster challenge.

Who do you pick? Who do you cut? and why?



Cut: Snake, Lucario,

Snake was a casualty of low numbers of additions. Nothing more. I thought you would rather have Sonic than Snake. Megaman HAD to be added IMO since we had such a low number to work with. We needed big booms. Thought about adding Goroh and Toad, but they lost out to Sonic and Megaman.

Lucario lost out to Mewtwo. At the end of the day, we know you want Mewtwo more than Lucario for the most part. Goroh and Toad lost out to third party characters.

How would you feel on an extrememly well balanced roster, with these characters? Ganondorf, Wolf and Lucas completely decloned. Falco, and Toon Link decloned further. (Toon Link more reflects Wind Waker, new Specials, half new regular moves. Falco has 2 new specials, all declones regular moves, and embodies an Arwing) No characters added are clones.

Zelda/Shiek transformation and Pokemon switching has become taunts. You aren't forced to switch Pokemon when you die as well. They all gain down Bs. Mewtwo has a Mewthree transformation. Done through taunting as well.


I agree with you on Issac and Krystal. They have a shot. I disagree with Tingle. He is a character people hate. This is also why he wasn't in TP or SS.

Is that really why he didn't show up?
 
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I agree with you on Issac and Krystal. They have a shot. I disagree with Tingle. He is a character people hate. This is also why he wasn't in TP or SS.
While true for TP, not true for SS. He appears in some form in that game, even if it is just a cameo as a doll.

Aside from that, his hatred is somewhat overstated.

Is that really why he didn't show up?
For TP at least, yes. Though the developers got around this by making Purlo, who was designed with the concept of "what would Tingle look like if he was more realistic?" in mind.
 

Diddy Kong

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Now are we gonna count that as an appearance or not? Cause Impa had two cameos to. One in Wind Waker, and a mentoin in Twilight Princess.
 

ChronoBound

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Isaac and the Golden Sun series as a whole was not really popular in Japan
Isaac was quite requested in Japan during pre-Brawl. Both GBA Golden Sun games also sold really well in Japan too (the original sold over 300K, and The Lost Age sold over 250K).
 
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Now are we gonna count that as an appearance or not? Cause Impa had two cameos to. One in Wind Waker, and a mentoin in Twilight Princess.
Never said it was a real appearance. Just that his supposed hatedom didn't stop him from appearing in SS in some form.

Isaac was quite requested in Japan during pre-Brawl. Both GBA Golden Sun games also sold really well in Japan too (the original sold over 300K, and The Lost Age sold over 250K).
By what you have told me, you don't know of requests prior to October of 2007.
It would also help to read through everything I say, as literally right after the part you quoted, I mentioned that his requests didn't really come until after the roster was finalized, going by what you told me.
 

ChronoBound

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42 character roster challenge.

Who do you pick? Who do you cut? and why?



Cut: Snake, Lucario,

Snake was a casualty of low numbers of additions. Nothing more. I thought you would rather have Sonic than Snake. Megaman HAD to be added IMO since we had such a low number to work with. We needed big booms. Thought about adding Goroh and Toad, but they lost out to Sonic and Megaman.

Lucario lost out to Mewtwo. At the end of the day, we know you want Mewtwo more than Lucario for the most part. Goroh and Toad lost out to third party characters.

How would you feel on an extrememly well balanced roster, with these characters? Ganondorf, Wolf and Lucas completely decloned. Falco, and Toon Link decloned further. (Toon Link more reflects Wind Waker, new Specials, half new regular moves. Falco has 2 new specials, all declones regular moves, and embodies an Arwing) No characters added are clones.

Zelda/Shiek transformation and Pokemon switching has become taunts. You aren't forced to switch Pokemon when you die as well. They all gain down Bs. Mewtwo has a Mewthree transformation. Done through taunting as well.
I would make the same choices for the most part, except I would maybe swap Shulk with Lucario.
 

ChronoBound

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I winder why Chrono
Because I think Lucario is more iconic than Shulk, and is more interesting overall. Lucario is probably the most popular and iconic Pokemon outside Generation One at this point. There is even a Lucario figurine being packed in with copies of Pokemon Rumble Wii U.

As for a 20 character roster, I would put:

1. Mario
2. Donkey Kong
3. Link
4. Samus
5. Kirby
6. Fox
7. Pikachu
8. Captain Falcon
9. Ness
10. Marth
11. Mr. Game & Watch
12. Wario
13. Pit
14. Olimar
15. Yoshi
16. Little Mac
17. Isaac
18. Starfy
19. Shulk
20. Lip

The first 15 are the main heroes of non-retro franchises (except G&W, though I consider him the most important retro overall since he has over 30 games to his name), while the remaining five are the heroes for various C-list Nintendo franchises.
 

FlareHabanero

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Because I think Lucario is more iconic than Shulk, and is more interesting overall. Lucario is probably the most popular and iconic Pokemon outside Generation One at this point. There is even a Lucario figurine being packed in with copies of Pokemon Rumble Wii U.
Fair enough, even though the message you quoted was an accident.

As for a 20 character roster, I would put:

1. Mario
2. Donkey Kong
3. Link
4. Samus
5. Kirby
6. Fox
7. Pikachu
8. Captain Falcon
9. Ness
10. Marth
11. Mr. Game & Watch
12. Wario
13. Pit
14. Olimar
15. Yoshi
16. Little Mac
17. Isaac
18. Starfy
19. Shulk
20. Lip
Looks pretty similar to mine, but I guess that's to be expected when your limited. Of course I discounted the concept of "assist" characters and "EX" characters based around similar concepts from other fighting games.
 
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42 roster challenge?

- Brawl Roster
- Mewtwo
- Roy
- King K. Rool
- Ridley
- Palutena
- Little Mac
- Mega Man
 
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