Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[colder_than_ice]

The only one outside of them might be Toad. Junior and Paper Mario have nothing going for them.

I don't see how Junior (made constant appearances in major releases like Sunshine and Galaxy) could be considered less likely Than Waluigi (only appeared in spin-offs).

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, I will agree that Toad is a strong candidate... but I also think Bowser Jr. has a chance if Sakurai faces time constraints once again and adds Bowser Jr. as a last minute clone of Bowser. Though there is a small chance that Toad might end up as the Wolf of the Mario Bros. (similar specials, different normal moves) because Toad(s) always have the same moves as Mario and Luigi every time Toad(s) are playable in main Mario games. I have my doubts about Paper Mario, too.

 

[bobadz]

I think Smashchu hates Junior. I mean I prefer Waluigi, and I think Junior is getting in before him.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I don't really agree with what Smashchu is insinuating... that Dr. Mario and Waluigi are the only likely Mario newcomers.

To be fair, Dr. Mario was taken seriously enough to be planned for Brawl. People can deny it, but Doc is probably the most likely "new" Mario character due to being already established in the franchise.

Why does no one mention ISAAC!!!

Because I like Albert Einstein better.

 

[Arcadenik]

To be fair, Dr. Mario was taken seriously enough to be planned for Brawl. People can deny it, but Doc is probably the most likely "new" Mario character due to being already established in the franchise.

I believe that's because it's easier to just clone Mario than to come up with an original moveset for a Mario newcomer when faced with time constraints. That's why Dr. Mario was a low-priority veteran and was ultimately cut from Brawl.

 

[SmashChu]

Out of curiosity, could you go a bit more in depth with these choices, especially Karate Joe, due to the Rhythm Heaven Streetpass puzzle the series has been on my mind recently. I also looked up the Wrestling Photo Shoot mini-game, some weird **** right there. Also minor FE thoughts.

Rhythm Heaven is, for one, a new series. The original was only released in japan in 2006 during Brawl's development. It didn't get big until the DS game. It has been getting consistent releases with good sales (not sure about the Wii one, but the DS one broke 2 million). So that at least puts it up as potential. Karate Joe has been in every game and was the first game in the series. Since then, he appears as the last game you play. He's been consistant. What holds him back is he is not the main character like Mario is the main character. You'd only know this if you played the series. Still, I think it gives him a good shot and would work as a nice surprise. For some of the others

For the rest, I'm not sure what else to say, so I'll try my best

-Kid Icarus - What helps this series is that it got a new game and revived most of the old characters and enemies. This has helped Palutena become one of the most likely characters. This gives the series more presence. Also, Smash has often had series get more than 1 new character. In Melee, it was Fire Emblem and Pokemon. Brawl was Pokemon and Kirby. Donkey Kong will likely get two. The next likely candidate is Kid Icarus. The series now has a ton of characters so there is a lot of room to work with. Medusa may be the most likely just because she has been in the series longer than the rest. I say Magnus because you played as him. There might be a reason why hint hint (well, not really).

-Mario Mario - Take a look at Brawl's roster and then what was proposed with the forbidden 7. In both, Pokemon, Zelda and Mario all had the same number of characters (4 and 5). I beleive Sakurai tries to keep these series together as best he can. Mario is likely to get a new character for this reason. On top of that, there are a ton of Mario characters. With less competition, it's not unlikely to think one might get in.

-Ghirahim

Spoiler

I've actually been pondering this:

Back during Brawl, there were a ton of characters. Brawl opened the door for a lot of characters that couldn't have gotten in during Melee. Basically, everyone and anyone got requested. Generally, there were some popular Zelda characters, but they weren't that strong in comparison. Compared to Dedede, Diddy, Wolf or Olimar, Skull Kid and Midna didn't stand a chance. There will still a good number of request for these characters, but they were dwarfed by a lot of other characters. Fast forward to now. First, there is a lot more focus in characters (and this in general, not just Zelda). Rather than have request for three characters (Vatti, Skull Kid, and Midna) they are focused around Ghirahim. Second, this time there are fewer really strong characters. The only characters most everyone can agree on are: Little Mac, Takamaru, Shulk, King K Rool, Ridley, and Palutena. Out side of these guys (except perhaps Megaman), it's up in the air. SSB4 is not dominated by a lot of strong characters. Also, in general, Ghirahim is decently popular and performs better than most character (though still under the main 6).

I think Ghiarahim stands a good chance. I think what was holding Zelda characters back was

1. A Lack of focus. There was a ton of characters that came up. Everyone didn't get behind one guy
2. Less competition. There are fewer mega characters like Brawl which leaves a lot of room for guys like Ghirahim.

Dillon - This is kind of a long shot, but it makes sense. First, this is a new series that come from Nintendo. During Brawl, there were a ton of new series. Golden Sun, Drill Dozer and Chibi Robo to name a few. None of these got characters despite the former being very popular. I think Sakurai doesn't want to add characters that are not tied to Nintendo directly. It could also be that the best characters are also Nintendo wholly owned characters. SSB4 will likely prove or disprove this. Second, there is a general demand for new series. There is a big gap between Pikmin and now, and Sakurai took notice. Likely, he will be looking at new series (if this yields any fruit remains to be seen). Lastly, he is the best candidate from the eShop. He has more fleshed out abilities than, say Mallo from Pushmo. His world is also more fleshed out and we see this with the Last Ranger. What is holding him back is that his game didn't do that great. As a result, he didn't get much recognition. People seem to be like the idea though, so that may be enough.

Issac - I kind of said this above, but his issue is copyright. Nintendo doesn't own Camelot, so they have limited control over the series. Likely, this means they can't do much with the series without Camelot. Compare this to Dillon's Rolling Western where Vanpool was the author and Nintendo maintained all rights. This means they can do what they want with the character. The same is not true of Golden Sun. If what I'm saying is true, then it's likely Sakurai is avoiding Golden Sun for fear of Nintendo some how losing the series or Camelot not wanting to have anything to do with Smash going forward. Again, this remains to be seen. His only other issue is he is only popular in the west where Ridley and Little Mac likely beat him (plus Punch Out had a new game where Dark Dawn was not well received).

Fire Emblem (because you asked nicely) - Marth has really been the only guy to get added because people wanted him. Roy was added because Sakurai thought he was a cool clone for Marth with his flaming sword. Sakurai added Ike because he wanted another FE character and this is who IS suggested. If there will be another, it will likely be Chrom since he is the most recent. The issue is do we need another one. Chrom doesn't bring much to the table since his stats are a LOT like Ike and he kind of looks like him too. He even has Aether. Do we need 4 FE characters? That I the real issue with the series.

I don't see how Junior (made constant appearances in major releases like Sunshine and Galaxy) could be considered less likely Than Waluigi (only appeared in spin-offs).

The problem is no one really cares for Junior. Look at Shorties pool and the one here and you'll see Junior doesn't do well (he got stomped by Waluigi on the Smash Board poll). Main series don't matter because a game is a game. Waluigi has made a ton of appearance. He was also an assist trophy over Bowser Jr.

Paper Mario is never going to happen and I shouldn't have to explain why. He's like Tom Nook where people think he's likely even though there are better choices. Paper Mario is just Mario. We can just go with Doc who was in Melee and is liked more.

I say Waluigi because he is one of the most popular characters
I say Doc because Sakurai has shown he has intended to add him
I say Toad for his longevity

 

[Deleted member]

@SmashChu: I don't think shoe-in is the right word for any of the newcomers on the list, but yeah, all of them are very likely to show up.

Definitely add Dixie Kong to the list. Samurai Goroh is also a solid choice for a roster, if a little questionable (but I feel odds are good enough to where I'm not too uncomfortable with putting him on my roster). Mach Rider should also be considered for the spot since Sakurai expressed interest in him pre-Melee and that it's the spiritual predecessor of F-zero.

Last suggestion would be Isaac. Isaac is among the Top 10 most wanted characters for Smash 4 (#6) and is one of the bigger franchise left with a viable character. Isaac has had a fan-base ever since Pre-Melee and Sakurai is probably going to put considerably more focus on the West for character inputs, so I think he'll come up. I know there's the 2nd party issue, but considering his Assist Trophy status in Brawl and that Sakurai has dealt with the Pokémon Company and third-parties despite the massive difficulties of both (we know Sakurai will have to deal with the Pokémon Company again), having Isaac in Smash is certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

I would not advise adding Sheriff. Contrary of what people may think, Sheriff was not the first game out for Nintendo. Wild Gunman came out in 1974 and Laser Clay Shooting Game (or something like that) came out in 1973.

I've been thinking. Who do you think the new WTF characters will be? Every smash has had some.​

​

The original had Ness and Captain Falcon.​

Melee had Ice Climbers, Sheik and Mr. Game and Watch.​

Brawl had Pokemon Trainer, Zero Suit Samus, Snake and R.O.B.​

​

Who would be the new ones?​

WTF isn't the right word. Surprise is more like it.​

​

My dark horse choices are Mach Rider and Professor Layton.

To be fair, Dr. Mario was taken seriously enough to be planned for Brawl. People can deny it, but Doc is probably the most likely "new" Mario character due to being already established in the franchise.

Wasn't too fond of Dr Mario in Melee, but if he were to return, I wouldn't mind. Certainly beat the likes of Daisy and Rosalina. *gag*​

 

[---]

Rhythm Heaven is, for one, a new series. The original was only released in japan in 2006 during Brawl's development. It didn't get big until the DS game. It has been getting consistent releases with good sales (not sure about the Wii one, but the DS one broke 2 million). So that at least puts it up as potential. Karate Joe has been in every game and was the first game in the series. Since then, he appears as the last game you play. He's been consistant. What holds him back is he is not the main character like Mario is the main character. You'd only know this if you played the series. Still, I think it gives him a good shot and would work as a nice surprise.

Oh okay, I thought he was just in one game and you picked him because "Karate" and that Smash is a fighting game. Does sound like a good rep for the series, wouldn't bet on him myself but I'm definitely more open to the idea now and won't rule out the possibility. Will have to look up videos of his mini-games when I get some time.

 

[lobotheduck21]

for a 3rd party I would go with layton or an atlas rep

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'm doubtful about the characters from the franchises released between Pikmin and Super Smash Bros. Brawl., especially a character like Karate Joe from Rhythm Heaven.

 

[Croph]

Just like Yoshi and Wario, Dr. Mario could technically be represented under his own series...Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't all Dr. Mario content/data in Brawl separate (as in not grouped together) from the Mario series?

 

[ChronoBound]

I would not call Dr. Mario "likely", however, he is definitely overlooked by most people as a prospect for Smash 4. Most people were not even expecting him to return for Brawl, yet he was closer to getting in than any other Mario character. I still say that if character DLC for Smash 4 happens, Dr. Mario will be at the top of Sakurai's list.

 

[Deleted member]

I also disagree with the whole "Waluigi is unimportant." On what grounds? Because he has never been in a main Mario title. I would argue it doesn't matter since a game is a game and Waluigi has appeared in a lot of them. Who is to say the sports, kart and party games over the last 10 years don't count. You can't deny he has presence. Not to mention he has fan support.

I would say that the lack of non-party/sports game presence does matter. The fact that Waluigi has never appeared in a mainstream game shows that Nintendo doesn't care about the character that much in comparison to Toad and Bowser Jr. (and that we will probably never see Waluig outside of sports/party games) Waluigi is filler and I don't think Sakurai would want to add filler before other more important Mario characters.

At least Dr. Mario has a puzzle franchise to go off of as well as being planned and being in Melee.

As for Zelda, he did plan another character in Toon Zelda. It's hard to say he's fine with what he has since he did plan for a new one.

But while Toon Zelda was planned, he was cut before Roy and Mewtwo, indicating that Toon Zelda might have been cut for reasons other than time constraints.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't all Dr. Mario content/data in Brawl separate (as in not grouped together) from the Mario series?

Only the music tracks appear to be separate from the Mario content, with both Fever and Chill being categorized under "Nintendo" instead of "Super Mario Bros.", Chill being on the Flatzone 2 stage and Fever being on the Pictochat stage. Stuff like stickers are grouped with the Mario series in typical fashion.

 

[Deleted member]

I would not call Dr. Mario "likely", however, he is definitely overlooked by most people as a prospect for Smash 4. Most people were not even expecting him to return for Brawl, yet he was closer to getting in than any other Mario character. I still say that if character DLC for Smash 4 happens, Dr. Mario will be at the top of Sakurai's list.

At first I hated the idea of Dr. Mario returning because I didn't want anymore clones in Smash, but I've warmed up to him (as I have with several other characters). I'm more or less neutral on his return, but I would download him if DLC were made available and he was one of the DLCs. I'd put his chances at around 25%.

I would not call Dr. Mario "likely", however, he is definitely overlooked by most people as a prospect for Smash 4. Most people were not even expecting him to return for Brawl, yet he was closer to getting in than any other Mario character. I still say that if character DLC for Smash 4 happens, Dr. Mario will be at the top of Sakurai's list.

I'd also throw Roy/Chrom to the list (if they aren't on the initial roster together) as well as Pichu. All seems like they would have a good shot at DLC (especially the former).

 

[peeup]

Paper Mario deserves a spot more than Dr. Mario.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

They are both just Mario

Mario's already in smash

 

[peeup]

But Paper Mario is more just Mario.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Mario is even more Mario

 

[FlareHabanero]

Paper Mario deserves a spot more than Dr. Mario.

What, don't enjoy characters throwing drugs at you?

 

[Croph]

I like playing as pink or green Doc because it's psychedelic, just like his pills.

 

[SmashShadow]

What, don't enjoy characters throwing drugs at you?

It's not good for marketing. Drugs can be quite damaging.

 

[FalKoopa]

If Sakurai had four Zelda's planned for brawl, having 3 Mario's isn't a stretch.

My, this thread moved 5 pages in the last 12 hours. The thread is picking up speed.

 

[Deleted member]

If Sakurai had four Zelda's planned for brawl, having 3 Mario's isn't a stretch.

My, this thread moved 5 pages in the last 12 hours. The thread is picking up speed.

58 days left.

The day of joy and despair, miracles and tragedies, all will begin on that faithful day. It'll be the best and the worst of the Internet all that one time.

We are going to go on overdrive in activities very soon. Which is why I am preparing for the hurricane that will slowly come in until BAM! Smash 4 trailer.

...and things will only go up in activities until Smash 4's reveal.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

And this is why we just... need our backroom back anytime soon. It'd be harder than hard to find a sanctuary from all that mess.

(Also loving your avatar BTW, Cyborg 009 was my childhood)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hm....

Which veterans do you think will be revealed at E3.

I think we'll at least get Mario, Link, Kirby, Pikachu and Samus, but if they reveal a newcomer such as K.Rool, then Donkey Kong should be revealed as well.

What do you guys think?

 

[Deleted member]

Hm....

Which veterans do you think will be revealed at E3.

I think we'll at least get Mario, Link, Kirby, Pikachu and Samus, but if they reveal a newcomer such as K.Rool, then Donkey Kong should be revealed as well.

What do you guys think?

Considering that I'm predicting Ridley, Palutena, Little Mac, Takamaru and Mega Man in that order, I'm expecting the following:
- Mario
- Link
- Kirby
- Pikachu
- Samus
- Pit

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Now you two are making me curious, I would like to see that Lyn girl's reaction on that Nsider site just for the heck of it.

Hopefully things wont get too overdramatic this time around if another character gets confirmed (or reconfirmed) to be an assist trophy.

I think it'd be somewhat sponged if they made Assists improved either by becoming summonables or just working around them more to really be less broken or awkward on the battlefield. Oh, and making them summonables.

Yep, said that twice.

I hope they don't make Pit have too much spotlight though, I'd be irked due that a bit since I'd just still look to other series that will either die due not ever getting in Smash which equals no interest from the casual people.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Hm....

Which veterans do you think will be revealed at E3.

I think we'll at least get Mario, Link, Kirby, Pikachu and Samus, but if they reveal a newcomer such as K.Rool, then Donkey Kong should be revealed as well.

What do you guys think?

I agree with smash fan.
The four typical fighters plus whoever they need to announce the newcomers.

 

[Vintage Creep]

They'll reveal only Mario and Kirby fighting on a test stage to show off the new mechanics. /troll
Oh yes and the video ends with Mewthree as a newcomer.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It's quite funny how even with the confirmation that the new Pokemon is an alternate form for Mewtwo, people still treat it as a separate entity.

 

[SmashChu]

Spiting the first one up for ease of reading.

@SmashChu: I don't think shoe-in is the right word for any of the newcomers on the list, but yeah, all of them are very likely to show up.

I think it's appropriate. Brawl had characters everyone knew would be in. I don't doubt the same would happen in SSB4. That's why I put these guys here.

Definitely add Dixie Kong to the list. Samurai Goroh is also a solid choice for a roster, if a little questionable (but I feel odds are good enough to where I'm not too uncomfortable with putting him on my roster). Mach Rider should also be considered for the spot since Sakurai expressed interest in him pre-Melee and that it's the spiritual predecessor of F-zero.

These are two characters I have faith in, but there a bit holding them back which is why I never put them with the other six. Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly.

Last suggestion would be Isaac. Isaac is among the Top 10 most wanted characters for Smash 4 (#6) and is one of the bigger franchise left with a viable character. Isaac has had a fan-base ever since Pre-Melee and Sakurai is probably going to put considerably more focus on the West for character inputs, so I think he'll come up. I know there's the 2nd party issue, but considering his Assist Trophy status in Brawl and that Sakurai has dealt with the Pokémon Company and third-parties despite the massive difficulties of both (we know Sakurai will have to deal with the Pokémon Company again), having Isaac in Smash is certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

Again, as I've said before, I think his status and a lack of support outside of the west hurts him. Again, this game could prove me wrong. I love Issac. I love Golden Sun. Just not confidante he'll get in. Not to say he's not a realistic choice.

would not advise adding Sheriff. Contrary of what people may think, Sheriff was not the first game out for Nintendo. Wild Gunman came out in 1974 and Laser Clay Shooting Game (or something like that) came out in 1973

I think it's a non issue. The point is to have something from Nintendo's past and Sheriff fit the bill.

Oh okay, I thought he was just in one game and you picked him because "Karate" and that Smash is a fighting game. Does sound like a good rep for the series, wouldn't bet on him myself but I'm definitely more open to the idea now and won't rule out the possibility. Will have to look up videos of his mini-games when I get some time.

See, that's the issue. He only seems like the main character if you have played the game. He's never promoted as the main character though he has the most presence in the series. As for his games.
GBA ; DS ; Wii ; Karate Joe's Alternate costume

I would say that the lack of non-party/sports game presence does matter. The fact that Waluigi has never appeared in a mainstream game shows that Nintendo doesn't care about the character that much in comparison to Toad and Bowser Jr. (and that we will probably never see Waluig outside of sports/party games) Waluigi is filler and I don't think Sakurai would want to add filler before other more important Mario characters.

Waluigi is a filler? On who's term?

Waluigi has appeared in more titles than most of the cast of Smash Brothers. What the title was was irrelevant. I mean, we call Mario Kart a spin off but it outsells the main series. Plus, Sakurai made him an assist over Bowser Jr. People generally like Waluigi and the poll results show it. People like Waluigi and it's why people want him in a main stay Mario title.

The whole "Waluigi is unimportant," doesn't holds water because it's cherry picking the game. A game is a game and Waluigi has been in a lot of them.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Number of appearances =/= significance to series

Waluigi, for the most part, only appears in games where almost every Mario character under the sun is also in

And the only "significant" bone in his body are his ties to Luigi and Wario

This is coming from someone who actually likes Waluigi, by the way, just to put things in perspective

 

[SmashChu]

Number of appearances =/= significance to series

Waluigi, for the most part, only appears in games where almost every Mario character under the sun is also in

And the only "significant" bone in his body are his ties to Luigi and Wario

This is coming from someone who actually likes Waluigi, by the way, just to put things in perspective

Your assuming significance matters, which goes back to you are cherry picking games.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Why wouldn't it matter at least to an extent? It's what help separates characters like Mario and Bowser from characters like Birdo and Baby Daisy

Now is it the only thing that matters? Obviously not. And does more significance mean a better chance? Again, no, if Smash were that clear cut, then Smash's roster would look entirely different than it does now

But Waluigi simply doesn't have enough going for him outside of popularity

 

[ChronoBound]

SmashChu, I am curious where you stand in regards to whether characters from Brawl's roster will be cut, and whether any of Melee's cut characters will return.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I'm back!, could anyone fill me in with the latest issues?

 

[Metal Overlord]

Well the thread got locked for a few days, and I think it's confirmed that Mewthree is actually an alternate form of Mewtwo

That's about it I guess haha

 

[bobadz]

Waluigi and Doc vs junior and paper mario .

 

[Arcadenik]

Smashchu

The reason we cherry pick main Mario games over spin-off Mario games is because all the characters that are in the main games are in the spin-off games... but not all characters that are in the spin-off games are in the main games.

Mario = main games (hero) + spin-off games
Luigi = main games (hero) + spin-off games
Peach = main games (heroine in one game but always the damsel) + spin-off games
Bowser = main games (main villain) + spin-off games
Yoshi = main games (sidekick) + spin-off games
Toad = main games (sidekick) + spin-off games
Wario = main games (villain in one game, playable rival in Super Mario 64 DS) + spin-off games (so he's not that important in the main Mario series but at least he has his own spin-off games to compensate)
Bowser Jr. = main games (secondary villain) + spin-off games

Birdo = main games (one time in 1988 and thus irrelevant) + spin-off games
Daisy = main games (one time in 1989 and thus irrelevant) + spin-off games
Rosalina = main games (twice in 2007 and 2010, arguably relevant) + spin-off games (at least twice so she's ultimately not more important than Daisy is)
Waluigi = NO main games + spin-off games (he's not any more important than Daisy or Rosalina and he doesn't even show up in Wario games)

Main Mario games are what separate the likes of Mario and Bowser from the likes of Daisy and Waluigi.