Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Arcadenik]

Perfect reaction, Vintage Creep. That's pretty much how I picture the butthurt fans reacting to unpleasant news regarding Smash.

 

[Frostwraith]

Perfect reaction, Vintage Creep. That's pretty much how I picture the butthurt fans reacting to unpleasant news regarding Smash.

I agree. That video described such reactions perfectly.

 

[ChronoBound]

Which is why I proposed the idea of Chrom using electricity to begin with. Characters in Super Smash Bros. often borrow attacks from other characters, an example being Ness being able to use PK Fire and PK Thunder, which is actually learned by Paula.

So you would not mind if Eliwood taught Roy how to use a lance for one of his specials or Lilina taught Roy how to use fire magic?

Seriously, Cecilia did mention in one of her support conversations with Lilina that Roy could have used magic if she devoted the time to teach him.

 

[Deleted member]

Mario is an interesting topic. Let me say this.

I think Sakurai does try to manage Pokemon, Mario and Zelda as these are the biggest series and have the most characters. Consider that (ignoring transformations) each of these series had 4 characters. The data on the disc shows that each one was planned to have another character: Toon Zelda, Dr. Mario and Mewtwo. So, I figure it's not unlikely that each one will have another character (most returning). What is curious is will Waluigi or Doc get in, or both. Sakurai has shown he wants Doc around. However, Waluigi is a popular character and is even recognized by Sakurai as such getting his own trophy in Melee and being an assist in Brawl. So how he plans to do it will be interesting.

Pokémon will of course get at least seven characters since we were planned to get seven or eight characters in Brawl (Brawl Pokémons + Mewtwo w/ new form as Final Smash).

Zelda could get a sixth character, but I'm leaning towards not (although not ruling it out yet). I really don't see Tingle getting in, I do feel as there's a good chance that Sakurai has lost interest in a Toon Zelda-like characterr and I feel as even Ghirahim (the most likely addition) may get overlooked since Sakurai may feel as Zelda is fine with the five it has.

Mario is probably the hardest topic for me to think about. We could get a fifth one like in Melee or we could stay with the four we have. On the one hand, we know that Sakurai has planned to have five Mario characters in Brawl, so it's not like he sees five Mario characters as over doing it, but on the other hand, none of the additions are obvious addition (ones that the community generally agree on) and could easily be skipped over. Toad is an iconic character heavily integrated into the Mario series (can't really imagine the franchise without Toad) and Sakurai has mentioned his superhuman strength. However, Sakurai may see him as too peaceful to be in Smash and he's not a popular choice.

Junior has become an important part of the Mario franchise in recent years and I do expect him to remain important. He's also a popular request and could work well as a last-minute semi-clone if Sakurai needs one (although that's not to say being unique is impossible). His main issue is that he doesn't have seniority, so Sakurai may not see Junior as worthy of a spot. However, unless he disappears between Smash 4 and Smash 5, I do expect him to show up in Smash 5 if he doesn't make it in this game.

That's really all I can see at the moment. Paper Mario would be great to have as I loved the first three RPGs, but I acknowledge him as unlikely. Waluigi will probably not get in due to being unimportant (popularity alone won't get him in). Dr. Mario could happen thanks to being planned in Brawl, but I'm not counting on him either.

I'm pretty much fine with any choice from Mario, but I know I'm in the minority when I say this.

 

[FlareHabanero]

So you would not mind if Eliwood taught Roy how to use a lance for one of his specials or Lilina taught Roy how to use fire magic?

Nah, I just wouldn't want Roy in general.

 

[ChronoBound]

Nah, I just wouldn't want Roy in general.

Habanero confirmed to have bitter tears when Smash 4 is released.

That is a big contradiction from what you said about not caring about what the playable FE characters end up as.

 

[Arcadenik]

I agree. That video described such reactions perfectly.

If taken literally, there would have been a behavioral epidemic recorded in medical journals asking why teenagers and young adults suddenly had violent fits throughout late 2007 and stopped abruptly in early 2008.

 

[Deleted member]

Habanero confirmed to have bitter tears when Smash 4 is released.

That is a big contradiction from what you said about not caring about what the playable FE characters end up as.

Habanero doesn't really care about Chrom either. I think what he's saying is that since the FE characters he's interested in are probably not getting in, he doesn't care what happens to the Fire Emblem roster. I think he only cares about Marth (not even Ike despite his signature).

 

[FlareHabanero]

SSBF hit the target.

In general Fire Emblem is not a huge priority for speculation purposes, as the only character I've liked anyway was Marth. I'm not exactly holding out for anything regarding to Fire Emblem, because it's just going to a waste of time. I have expressed interest in Lyn, but even then it's below a lot of other choices I want like Dillon, Takamaru, and Palutena to name a few.

As for the Chrom thing, I was mainly doing that as a counter argument to the whole bland thing.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, to be honest, I wouldn't mind cutting Marth and getting Lucina. I mean, Marth already looks like a girl.... so why not turn a pre-op into a post-op? As for Chrom, well, he can be a mix between Roy and Ike for all I care. I just don't have rose-colored nostalgic feelings towards Fire Emblem characters in general. I am pretty much neutral on Fire Emblem... I only care about how many characters the series would get in SSB4. I think 2 is more than sufficient, though 3 is possible but 4 is just going overboard, IMO.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Guys I made a new Luigi moveset (partially to be honest) based on the newly released Dark Moon: http://smashboards.com/threads/luigi.324187/page-4#post-15447617

Would you give it a try or would you stick to the original no matter what?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Guys I made a new Luigi moveset (partially to be honest) based on the newly released Dark Moon: http://smashboards.com/threads/luigi.324187/page-4#post-15447617

Would you give it a try or would you stick to the original no matter what?

I'd stick to the original. Though if you could pick both somehow that would be cool.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I'd stick to the original. Though if you could pick both somehow that would be cool.

The only possible way is for Vacuum Luigi to be some sort of alternate costume of Luigi. I think that Sakurai could absolutely find a way to make it work, but it would double the effort so I don't know if it would be a good idea.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think that for Smash 4, Luigi could very well have a reference to Luigi's Mansion (the poltergust) in his moveset thanks to Luigi's Mansion 2.

On a sidenote, Luigi's Mansion 2 (Dark Moon) is doing extremely well in Japan. Its been out for three weeks, and its already sold over 450K in Japan alone (and its still at the top of the charts). For comparison sake, the original game for the GameCube, sold 350K in Japan.

 

[Deleted member]

Guys I made a new Luigi moveset (partially to be honest) based on the newly released Dark Moon: http://smashboards.com/threads/luigi.324187/page-4#post-15447617

Would you give it a try or would you stick to the original no matter what?

Would be nice if it would finally make Luigi a completely unique characters. I'm fine with the way he is, but I would appreciate the extra mile taken by making the few remaining cloned moves unique.

Would be nice if they would do this for Lucas too. That would be the only way I would care about his inclusion.

 

[Arcadenik]

@ ChronoBound

Pre-Brawl, that's what we said about Peach and her own game, Super Princess Peach... she didn't get a new moveset in Brawl... I doubt Luigi's new game, Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, would give Luigi a new moveset either.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Damn shame really

Luigi is probably my favorite character to use in Smash, using the Poltergeist would make him level up even more in badassery for me

 

[FlareHabanero]

You know, I just realized that a lot of the characters I want are not connected to an established character-based franchise in Super Smash Bros. Takamaru, Lip, Little Mac, Dillon, Shulk, Mach Rider, Muddy Mole, Mega Man... I guess it's because there is less "competition" and for some of them, like Lip and Mach Rider, there's more freedom with possible move ideas.

 

[ChronoBound]

Basically every character I wanted in Smash Bros. already got in Brawl, so at this point I am more concerned with who stays more than who gets in. I mean half of the characters I want for Smash 4 are characters whom have already been playable (Mewtwo and Roy), and only one is a proper Nintendo newcomer (Ridley). I also would be hyped if Mega Man got in.

I still think it would be neat if K. Rool, Little Mac, Palutena, Dixie Kong, Waddle Dee, or Toad/Paper Mario/Bowser Jr. show up, though I certainly don't care about them as much as the previously mentioned four, and I would not be irked at all if they failed to make it in.

 

[Oasis_S]

Because picking a random character by hand manually is so brutally hard...

It's still stupid just like L-cancelling is stupid. Why should I have to do a thing that the game should be doing for me.

Melee's was just poor design. Not only did you not know it was there, but the token did not STAY there once you placed it.

 

[Deleted member]

I pretty much support everyone in my signature (if only for personal reasons for some like Geno or Tails). As for characters I do support, I'd rank them into three groups; S, A and B.

S characters are ones that I fully support that I push actively for; those three being Mega Man, Mewtwo and King K. Rool in that order. I would be satisfied if everyone from Brawl returned plus these characters. I feel these three are all likely to appear (Mega Man less so due to third-party status, but given that he's always been among my most wanted, he makes the list). Currently dedicating the vast majority of my effort towards Mega Man at the present moment (although it's more for trying to give a more positive atmosphere about Mega Man's odds overall with supporters than outright trying to get him in).

A characters are ones that I also support and feel have a fair chance, but wouldn't be disappointed if they didn't get in. Those characters are Toad, Bowser Jr., Dixie Kong, Samurai Goroh, Roy, Mach Rider and Isaac. I'll turn my support to them if Mega Man is revealed at E3 2013, but I don't have any expectations for them since my feelings for them are not as strong as the ones in the S group. I admit my support for Roy does go into S-level at times, but it's more of my annoyance at people calling Chrom a shoe-in than anything (but let's not get into that).

B characters, which are the rest of the characters in my signatures, are characters that I want, but don't feel will make it in. That includes everyone else (Paper Mario, Geno, Pichu, Deoxys, Genesect, Ray, Tails, Bomberman, Slime). Pretty much my only hope is that Sakurai throws one of these as a surprise in the roster, which would be neat to see.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I'm more of a hoper than wanter/expectating debater. I wish the game will just be able to blow me away rather than disappoint me. Brawl did this in the first impression, but it felt bit half-baked the more I dig deeper to it.

But the character selection didn't disappoint me at all, though it was due not me having anyone wanting in except Starfy and Diddy (in which I got the latter.)

Most of the characters I'm looking to see or hoping to see are in my signatures. I could try rearranging them depending on chances, but I feel like it'll be a hassle. I just hope even one of 'em gets in. (-l.l-)

 

[Deleted member]

I'm more of a hoper than wanter/expectating debater. I wish the game will just be able to blow me away rather than disappoint me. Brawl did this in the first impression, but it felt bit half-baked the more I dig deeper to it.

But the character selection didn't disappoint me at all, though it was due not me having anyone wanting in except Starfy and Diddy (in which I got the latter.)

Most of the characters I'm looking to see or hoping to see are in my signatures. I could try rearranging them depending on chances, but I feel like it'll be a hassle. I just hope even one of 'em gets in. (-l.l-)

You're in luck then. Palutena and Takamaru ranks among the most likely additions to be made to Smash 4. Isaac and Dixie Kong also has good chances and Saki and Toad have a 50/50 shot.

I think you'll get at least two on your list and up to five overall.

 

[Curious Villager]

Yeah I'm with Young Horsetail, I'm more of a hoper too. I hope Professor Layton makes it in, but I sure as heck don't expect him in seeing as there are more thing's going against him than for him. Probably the same thing for Mallo too.

I hoped for Toon Link and Mewtwo for their respective games and I was pleasantly surprised when I found out they actually made it in.

For now, the only character I hope to see in smash 4 who I believe has a good chance of making it in is Mewtwo and his gen 6 form... :/

 

[Vintage Creep]

I think Isa has more chance (still not that much) than Saki but they're pretty much the same so it doesn't really matter.

 

[ChronoBound]

You're in luck then. Palutena and Takamaru ranks among the most likely additions to be made to Smash 4. Isaac and Dixie Kong also has good chances and Saki and Toad have a 50/50 shot.

I think you'll get at least two on your list and up to five overall.

Starfy and Lloyd also have decent shots as well, though for Lloyd his chances basically hinge upon E3 2013, if he does not show up there, he most likely won't show up at all.

The only character in YH's signature I would say is extremely unrealistic is Vaati, though I think Tingle and Sable are unlikely too.

 

[Oasis_S]

I prefer expecting.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I prefer expecting.

Enjoy your Dark Pit and Dr. Mario.

 

[Deleted member]

Starfy and Lloyd also have decent shots as well, though for Lloyd his chances basically hinge upon E3 2013, if he does not show up there, he most likely won't show up at all.

The only character in YH's signature I would say is extremely unrealistic is Vaati, though I think Tingle and Sable are unlikely too.

Whenever or not Stafy has a shot depends on whenever or not Sakurai did plan him for Smash 4 as rumored. If so, then I give him a 50/50 chance, but if not, then I don't see him.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Starfy was not planned as a playable character.

This about it for a second, apparently no characters introduced between the release of Pikmin (October 26, 2001) and Super Smash Bros. Brawl (January 31, 2008) were feasible as a playable character. This means that any franchises released between those games like Chibi-Robo and Starfy were viewed as not feasible.

 

[Curious Villager]

Starfy was not planned as a playable character.

This about it for a second, apparently no characters introduced between the release of Pikmin (October 26, 2001) and Super Smash Bros. Brawl (January 31, 2008) were feasible as a playable character. This means that any characters released between those games like Chibi-Robo and Starfy were viewed as not feasible.

Don't you mean franchises, Habanero?

Because characters introduced between Pikmin and Brawl did make it playable. (Toon Link, Lucario, Ike, etc)

 

[ChronoBound]

Whenever or not Stafy has a shot depends on whenever or not Sakurai did plan him for Smash 4 as rumored. If so, then I give him a 50/50 chance, but if not, then I don't see him.

I think Starfy has a shot at getting in due to:
1. Having a new game released since Brawl's release.
2. That new game having been released internationally.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Habanero: Would things be different now though? Because this might just mean we're still kind of stuck in the past in means of getting the new series (and what about Xenoblade too...)

Vaati I'm not really expecting to see, hell, I'm sure his chances are low. But I'd love to see him out. Lloyd I hope to see more than expect, because Pac-Man and stuff. And who knows, I'd be all content with just a quest appearance.

But yeah, hopefully I'll see some of those (I think Palutena and Dixie are fore-runners to me there).

Chrono: I just wish the moveset potential isn't an issue, I mean if they made Falcon or Fox work, then Starfy can too. If they just have motivation for that.

 

[ChronoBound]

Chrono: I just wish the moveset potential isn't an issue, I mean if they made Falcon or Fox work, then Starfy can too. If they just have motivation for that.

I doubt "moveset potential" is a problem for Starfy. I doubt "moveset potential" is a problem for any character for that matter.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Habanero: Would things be different now though? Because this might just mean we're still kind of stuck in the past in means of getting the new series (and what about Xenoblade too...)

Well, probably not. Keep in mind that this stigma only affects the franchises released between Pikmin (October 26, 2001) and Brawl (January 31, 2008). Anything before or after is free game unless stated otherwise.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

What do you suppose are the odds of Saki or Isa Jo from Sin & Punishment being added to the roster?

I'd say a 30% percent chance due to how niche the games are considered.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'd say a 30% percent chance due to how niche the games are considered.

Being niche is not really that much of a problem. I mean, stuff like F-Zero, Fire Emblem, and Mother are not exactly on par with something like Mario or Pokemon.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Well, probably not. Keep in mind that this stigma only affects the franchises released between Pikmin (October 26, 2001) and Brawl (January 31, 2008). Anything before or after is free game unless stated otherwise.

Odd stuff, really. I mean by this logic Sakurai would really keep with getting these impressions even on today's franchises because if those didn't impress him, then I don't know what does. (-=´0)

I still hope he wasn't truly meaning all that, he could just try revisiting those series and maybe give 'em another shot.

 

[Deleted member]

I doubt "moveset potential" is a problem for Starfy. I doubt "moveset potential" is a problem for any character for that matter.

I think the issue with Stafy has more to do with not being able to fit as a playable character from what Sakurai sees rather than actually lacking. This is a case of Sakurai being ignorant about what Stafy can do rather than Stafy being unable to play the games.

Perhaps if Sakurai picked up a few games and noticed the international re-release, Stafy might stand a fair chance, but the rejection that Sakurai gave to misc. franchises after Animal Crossing during pre-Brawl looks to be more of Sakurai not seeing Stafy work (which is very bad news for any potential appearance) rather than Stafy being unworthy (which is much more easily fixed). It's for this same reason why I doubt the Mii's despite their super iconic status.

 

[ChronoBound]

Being niche is not really that much of a problem. I mean, stuff like F-Zero, Fire Emblem, and Mother are not exactly on par with something like Mario or Pokemon.

Prior to Brawl, FE3 and FE4 sold over 500K in Japan alone (though FE4 sold practically exactly 500K), and already had five installments (more than Metroid, Star Fox, F-Zero, and Mother/EarthBound had at the time). FE's only problem was being a Japan-only series.

As for F-Zero, the original F-Zero was a launch title for the Super Famicom, and sold nearly one million copies in Japan alone (probably the only F-Zero that sold very well in Japan), and had a very well regarded sequel for the Nintendo 64 that was developed by EAD (which is Nintendo's highest profile development team).

Mother/EarthBound was a very popular in Japan as well, and probably got an added boost due to HAL Laboratories helping develop EarthBound and being the primary developer for Mother 3 at the time (Iwata himself was even a programmer for EarthBound).