Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[FalKoopa]

I think the reason why Game & Wario bombed is the lack of a large number of minigames which the WarioWare series is generally known for.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Falkoopa: Kinda what I thought? In anycase, Wii U's really bombing itself here if this goes on... it needs more oomph to it at the moment.

Means we're SURELY going to have our wait done in next E3 though. Or it'll be fatal for Big N.

 

[ChronoBound]

Chrono: was Warioware a system seller in Japan(i.e. did a WW release drive up DS/whatever sales)?

Touched sold over a million in Japan, and Smooth Moves sold more than Twilight Princess in Japan.

WarioWare series sales in Japan:

WarioWare: 623K
WarioWare: Mega Party Games: 400K
WarioWare Twisted: 464K
WarioWare Touched: 1136K
WarioWare: Smooth Moves: 652K

To give you an idea to the extent to which Game & Wario bombed, WarioWare: Mega Party Games was basically a GBA port with a multiplayer twist for the GAMECUBE, yet it was able to sell 400K in Japan. Game & Wario now is at around 35K in its third week.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Also Blizzard was doing somewhat well with WoW but they still sold themselves to Activision.

That's not exactly a true statement. Activision and Vivendi merged, and Blizzard was owned by Vivendi. because of the merger, Vivendi gave control of it's game companies, such as Blizzard, to Activision for control. But Blizzard still retains it's own corporate leadership, unlike other companies Vivendi had...

Which unfortunately (For a couple reasons) included Sierra. Which is GONE

 

[ChronoBound]

I think the reason why Game & Wario bombed is the lack of a large number of minigames which the WarioWare series is generally known for.

The reason Game & Wario bombed (along with Nintendo Land and New Super Mario Bros. U) is that no one is buying the Wii U. No hardware base = crap software sales

The Wii U is tracking for GameCube hardware numbers, with much more abysmal software sales.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

From what I hear. The Wii U is still selling more than the 360 and PS3 within their first year.

I'm not too worried. Remember when people were freaking out about the 3DS and saying that it would flop? I'm convinced the Wii U's sales will improve with time.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Nintendo really shouldn't have made a system that is barely more powerful than current generation systems.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Nintendo really shouldn't have made a system that is barely more powerful than current generation systems.

We don't know the exact specs of the Wii U, do we?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Touched sold over a million in Japan, and Smooth Moves sold more than Twilight Princess in Japan.

WarioWare series sales in Japan:

WarioWare: 623K
WarioWare: Mega Party Games: 400K
WarioWare Twisted: 464K
WarioWare Touched: 1136K
WarioWare: Smooth Moves: 545K

To give you an idea to the extent to which Game & Wario bombed, WarioWare: Mega Party Games was basically a GBA port with a multiplayer twist for the GAMECUBE, yet it was able to sell 400K in Japan. Game & Wario now is at around 35K in its third week.

I know they sold well. I'm asking if Warioware helped increase system sales. i.e. did WW games sell even if the system they were on wasn't already a success. It could be that Japanese fans just don't want the game enough to buy a Wii U for it.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Swampa: I know. Though I have to yet find a game that truly makes best use of 3DS aside from Kid Icarus Uprising. *Shot*

But yeah. I just wish they would hurry with that.

 

[ChronoBound]

I know they sold well. I'm asking if Warioware helped increase system sales. i.e. did WW games sell even if the system they were on wasn't already a success. It could be that Japanese fans just don't want the game enough to buy a Wii U for it.

Smooth Moves and Touched were launch titles for the Wii and DS respectively in Japan so its difficult to say, though Twisted, the original, and Mega Party Games weren't yet sold very strongly. However, the sales for a WarioWare title that was basically an upgraded port for the GameCube compared to the Wii U shows that even on low install bases, WarioWare should not have sold as poorly as it did (it probably should be close to 100K based on the Wii U's current userbase in Japan).

 

[Big-Cat]

The reason Game & Wario bombed (along with Nintendo Land and New Super Mario Bros. U) is that no one is buying the Wii U. No hardware base = crap software sales

The Wii U is tracking for GameCube hardware numbers, with much more abysmal software sales.

Have you considered that maybe people just aren't interested in the game? I mean, let's look at both this and Mario Wii U. Wario is basically another minigame collection in the same vein as Nintendo Land and the myriad of minigame collections on the Wii. It's no surprise that there'd be less interest due to both the low quality of these kinds of games and that the interest has simply died out. Had Game and Wario been more in the same style as the previous entries of the series with its reflex based microgames, things might be different.

Meanwhile, the NSMB series has been under fire lately for not really doing anything new in that series since its beginnings on the DS. Basically, it feels like an update of sorts whereas the original SMB trilogy (if we include SMB2 USA) were all very different from one another. That particular series needs to do something new and daring, something that hasn't been seen out of Mario since they decided to play it safe with this series.

The interest of the consumers are a force not to be estimated. The bait's there, but the fish just aren't biting. Even if Nintendo's best marketing efforts are done, there's no guarantee that they'll buy into the games, especially when mobile app games have been growing in popularity so fast. Everyone just wants these cheap, short thrills.

Lastly, I believe software and hardware sales go hand in hand. Software drives the sales of hardware while hardware increases the "maximum" player base for a game.

 

[---]

Bro.

Sup bro.

Game & Wario now is at around 35K in its third week.

Dang, didn't expect to do well but I didn't expect it to bomb either. Can't say I was all that interested in it myself either though.

 

[Fastblade5035]

Swampa: I know. Though I have to yet find a game that truly makes best use of 3DS aside from Kid Icarus Uprising. *Shot*

But yeah. I just wish they would hurry with that.

Super Mario 3D Land, as redundant as it may sound, actually used 3D in a good way, more for puzzles.
Honestly, I think that the 3D mechanic used it 3D Land could work very well for the upcoming Zelda game on the 3DS, so long as it's optional.

Besides, soon we'll see Mewtwo in 3D!!!

 

[ChronoBound]

Meanwhile, the NSMB series has been under fire lately for not really doing anything new in that series since its beginnings on the DS. Basically, it feels like an update of sorts whereas the original SMB trilogy (if we include SMB2 USA) were all very different from one another.
.

NSMBWii was the second highest selling home console video game of ALL TIME in Japan. New Super Mario Bros. U limped to 500K, and will be lucky to break two million over its lifetime sales. Even if there is franchise fatigue, there should not have been such a massive contraction as there has been from Wii to U.

Also, Nintendo Land and Game & Wario are certainly no low quality games. From expressions, Game & Wario is another great game in the Wario franchise, while most people have said that Nintendo Land offers a meatier game experience than Wii Sports or Wii Sports Resort.

The fact is that people simply don't want the Wii U at this time, and the software being offered for it (NSMBU, Nintendo Land, and most recently Game & Wario) do nothing to entice them.

Nintendo needs to use every last bullet they have (which I am sure they will) at E3 this year. They will not hold back any software they have in development and show their entire hand there.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I hate to do this, but because people are failing to understand the purpose of this thread, I'm temporarily locking it.

I plan to unlock the thread again on Saturday. Until then, please keep all character related discussions in their respective threads.

 

[Banjodorf]

Sup, I'm Hiram and I'm kind of new, I just registered but I stalk these threads constantly. This is the Roster I made, although some of it may be just silly dreaming.

@hiram

Naw man, I'd say that's a pretty realistic roster barring a couple of choices, namely Impa don't tell Diddy and Kumatora (Both of which I think would be awesome additions, but I'm just not convinced they have the support. Otherwise, I think this is a pretty good picture of the generally agreed-upon stance. I for one and glad to see such agreement amongst the community!

(Honestly, you have about the same amount of difference in mine, except I had Palutena and Dixie in place of Kumatora and Impa, and lacked Ghira (who I still support) and Lloyd. Seems fine to me!)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The thread has been unlocked again. Please keep all discussions limited to the primary post's topic...

Speculate on rosters here on all points: veterans, newcomers, balances between series, number of characters, third party characters, etc...

Also, please use the following thread for all off-topic chats from here on out...

http://smashboards.com/threads/324221/

 

[Diddy Kong]

So we back? Good stuff.

Banjodorf, I actually really like that roster. Only unlikely choices there are to me: Ghirahim, Zoroark, Kumatora and Lloyd. And am kinda upset with no Dixie, but other than that: wouldplay/10.

Oh and Palutena is a pretty good choice who is not on that roster as well.

Still, it's one of the better I've seen.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Sup, I'm Hiram and I'm kind of new, I just registered but I stalk these threads constantly. This is the Roster I made, although some of it may be just silly dreaming.

Actually, most of this roster is fairly realistic. Only thing that sticks out to me is Kumatora, but hey, we all have one or two characters that we're unrealistic about.

 

[FalKoopa]

The only one in the roster who sticks out is Kumatora. Also, as others have pointed out, the absence of Palutena. Rest of the roster is realistic.

 

[Frostwraith]

Total Amount of Characters (including transformations): 60
Total Amount of Characters (not including transformations): 55
Aren't those just nice, even numbers?
Dillon was added to make the roster nice and square (well, technically a rectangle).

Overall, this roster is quite realistic.
You could say it's "conservative" by not having newcomers for both Fire Emblem and Pokémon, but has the fan favorite characters anyway, which isn't a bad thing. Impa as the Zelda newcomer and keeping all the veterans is good for me.
The only flaws I see is the Mario series having 8 characters, which is a stretch in my opiniom; lacks Palutena, whom I see as a very likely newcomer, given Kid Icarus: Uprising's success.

8/10

Sup, I'm Hiram and I'm kind of new, I just registered but I stalk these threads constantly. This is the Roster I made, although some of it may be just silly dreaming.

Not as realistic as some rosters, but otherwise it's not bad. I would replace Kumatora with Palutena. I think a Kid Icarus newcomer is much more likely than one from EarthBound, especially considering that the EarthBound trilogy is officially over, while Kid Icarus could have more sequels.
Removing Sheik seems bad idea to me and I think Zoroark's chances aren't very high (despite supporting it).
Despite unlikely as a newcomer, Ghirahim is a character I would very much like to see, so props for including him.

8/10

 

[FalKoopa]

What do you guys think of my roster?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

What do you guys think of my roster?

It's bad and you should feel bad for making it.

Kidding. It's good. Fairly realistic. Things that really stick out to me are the only the lack of Shulk, and the addition of Tingle and Paper Mario(though that last ones more of a personal issue).

 

[Diddy Kong]

You know who I'd swap Tingle for. But other than that, it's good. Just don't like the idea of 4 third party characters. That's all.

 

[Frostwraith]

What do you guys think of my roster?

It's quite realistic.

I would prefer Impa over Tingle, but both are equally important to the series, so it's fine as is.
Has Ridley and Palutena, two widely expected characters. All Fire Emblem veterans returning is also one big plus.
K. Rool is also the likeliest DK newcomer.
The Pokémon roster is very good for me, especially if the new Mewtwo form is incorporated in his moveset somehow.
Paper Mario is like Toon Link as both can be very different versions of their original counterparts. THAT MEANS NO CLONES, SAKURAI!!!
Isaac, Takamaru and Little Mac are all good choices for new series.
Its modest size is also more realistic for me, as Sakurai told that he doesn't want to add too much characters this time.

9/10

 

[Vintage Creep]

This topic... It's alive!

Back on topic, you guys still put that random window in some rosters... I hate it, it stands out too much. I hope it's gone in the next installment, and I'm pretty sure that it was present in Brawl only because Sakurai had to fill a place meant for another character which was scrapped.

 

[Frostwraith]

This topic... It's alive!

Yeah, but we should moderate ourselves from now on...

I might be digging some rosters I made and make some changes to fit my current views.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

This topic... It's alive!

It's back, but we should move our ramblings(and most of our discussion) to the general discussion thread.

 

[Metal Overlord]

@FalKoopa- 9.5/10

Only additions I'm not crazy about are Paper Mario, Tingle and Krom

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

I guess to keep this topic more on topic, I'll also post my new roster

I'm just hoping to hear of how viable it would be/what characters to add.

 

[Frostwraith]

EDIT 2: New (more realistic) roster:

The separate columns are some alternates, ranging from costumes to similar characters.

Okay, this is a roster I just made. I avoided as much bias as possible and tried to make the roster as realistic as possible.
The alt. costumes and such are a bonus and aren't supposed to affect the gameplay of the characters. You may ignore them or not.

And, yes, there are no third parties. I don't have anything against them, by the way.

 

[FalKoopa]

@Ninka_kiwi
7/10
I would be disappointed by the cutting of Lucario, Ike and replacement of Toon Link by Young Link. Rest of the roster is solid.

 

[Deleted member]

Really good roster Frostwraith. Just cut Impa from the roster and it's perfect.

Anyone want to do my three rosters? On page 2. Will likely be my last roster post-E3. I'd link, but I have to leave break for work.

 

[FalKoopa]

@Frostwraith
9/10
A pretty solid roster in my opinion. The only questionable choice is Shadow Mario, who I believe to be very unlikely since Bowser Jr. can use the paintbrush himself.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Well, since all the cool kids are posting new rosters, I figure I'll do the same.

4/13/2013 Update: New roster

I've actually indicated which character I think might/should be unlockable in red. Falcon and Ness are reverted to started like in Melee, and Marth is now a starter because he's practically FE's main Lord.

Added Palutena and Lloyd this time around. If you don't like Lloyd, just pretend he's whatever potential Namco character you prefer.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Yeah, I did this roster for fun. I think it could happen, like 10% chance of happening lol, but still it's mostly fanmade so... As for the number, I think around 55 it's doable, counting transformation. This one has 51 spots. The characters become 56 counting transformations.

I'll make some explanations.

The Mario franchise basically no new reps again. They're all pretty much the same except Luigi which gets heavily luigified again to be more similar to his appearance in Luigi's Mansion 2. The Poltergust 5000 becomes one of his new moves, he runs like in the game (making him a little bit slower), ecc... His change is a little bit more deep than Melee Mario > Brawl Mario.
Paper Mario gets in as a new franchise because of his success and because he's awesome. It was an hard choice between him and Bowser Jr. actually, but I chose Paper Mario because his franchise was overseen by Smash Bros. too much. There's still hope for DLC anyway.

Donkey Kong gets basically two new reps. Diddy becomes a transformation character with Dixie. His moveset stays the same except for the banana move, which now becomes a switch with Dixie. Anyway they act similar to Ice Climbers since both characters are on the screen at the same time and the down+B only decides which one you want to control. Dixie's moveset is different obviously. K. Rool is the obvious choice for a new tank character similar to Bowser but more awkward to control, kinda like a joke character.
Wario and Yoshi stay the same pretty much.

The Zelda franchise will be probably the most controversial one but eh, couldn't make any better. Toon Link gets scrapped (with the possibility of being an alternate costume of Link). Link and Zelda/Sheik stay the same with the first one a little bit different to get more of a Skyward Sword feel. Ghirahim and Impa both get in. The first one is an elusive sword character, I imagine him acting like Mewtwo with a few of Marth's attacks. Up+B for example being him snapping his fingers and make a fast teleport in any direction. Impa fights bare hands, using mostly her legs. Classic Ganondorf gets scrapped, his moveset goes to Deathborn (yep) and Toon Ganondorf gets in, finally becoming a sword character, and representing Wind Waker HD. He's a tank, but he's surprisingly faster than he was.

Metroid gets Ridley. Whoa didn't expect that right? You all know what that means. Kid Icarus gets two new reps, being Sakurai's new child, like Kirby got two in Brawl. Palutena and Medusa could play similar, but are not flat-out clones.

Kirby and Pikmin franchise stay the same with the obvious tweaks depending on their new incarnation in the new games. Shulk gets obviously in since he's the protagonist of the biggest new Nintendo franchise.

The StarFox franchise stays the same, with Falco having a new moveset though, getting luigified once more. And those Landmasters must go, so three different final smashes (maybe Wolf keeps his Brawl one). F-Zero gets a "new rep", which is basically Classic Ganondorf with a Deathborn skin. I chose Deathborn because he's the true villain of the last installment and because I feel that Sm4sh's roster, being heavily speculated and such, needs some surprises. He's relatively easy to make and doesn't require much of an effort, also him being an half clone of Falcon makes more sense than Ganondorf.

The Pokémon franchise... Well Lucario gets scrapped, Mewtwo gets back in and brings his new fella from the movie with him. Mewtwo is not exactly the same though, some of his moves gets changed and has an alternate costume of Mewthree (being officially an alternate form now). Genesect presents a complete new moveset obviously. Jigglypuff is Jigglypuff.

Fire Emblem gets two new reps, Chrom and Lucina. Now I don't know the series that much but being Awakening a big success, probably the first in NA, I think it's possible two new characters from that game will get in. Ike gets scrapped and Roy does not return, buu-uuuh maybe DLC. Chrom could take Ike's moveset, or a similar one (don't really know). Lucina is similar to Marth (one of his alt is Masked Marth in fact), but more floaty. Earthbound stays the same, maybe Lucas gets a little bit more luigified. I wanted to replace him with Porky but I don't think Sakurai is even thinking about that.

Now we have the "retro" column. Little Mac is not retro anymore but well, let's say one of his foot is still in the retro part of Nintendo. He will most likely get in. Mach Rider is the new revived character after Brawl's Pit, that's because one of my erotic dreams is Sakurai making a new Mach Rider game for the Wii U after Sm4sh. The other three dudes stay the same.

Last column is third party. Sonic is enhanced and basically better than he was in Brawl, I put his classic skin but the modern look is still in as an alternate costume. I put Snake in it because the Roster Maker does not have Big Boss' new look, but hoping the Wii U gets The Phantom Pain, maybe he could be substituted, or have him as an alt. Then we have Megaman because yes. Pac-Man is the obvious Namco/Bandai rep, and I think he could be only the first. Still, I wanted Layton so, here you have it.

Finally, the Mii is the WTF character and such.

Oh yes, pretty much ALL characters get a new final smash, or an improved one. That thing needs to be redone from the start.

I considered a lot of other characters, like Bowser Jr., Mr. Resetti or another Animal Crossing rep, Takamaru, Samurai Goroh, Dillon, King Boo, the Wonderful 101, Duck Hunt Dog, Simon Belmont, Phoenix Wright or a Tekken rep (mostly Yoshimitsu lol) but I tried to stay a little bit realistic. With DLC I hope the disappointment of one of those not being in the final product can be later fixed though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd swap Ghirahim for Toon Link, Medusa for Ike, Genesect for Lucario and one of the third parties for a separate Dixie. But other than that, solid roster!

Oh and checking again, I do miss Isaac though.

 

[FlareHabanero]

So, this thread is back from it's little "vacation". Hopefully everyone has realize how stupid people truly are and will hopefully change for the better. I understand your patience is running thin, but we should all take this opportunity to learn from the experiences and use it as fuel for our fire.

Also, every roster has it's flaws and cannot be 100% agreed on no matter what. Hell I could post a roster right now and you'd be having a hissy fit right now, due to my different views.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I guess to keep this topic more on topic, I'll also post my new roster

I'm just hoping to hear of how viable it would be/what characters to add.

Umh I find this roster pretty boring to be honest. I don't get why you scrapped Toon to put Young back in for example.
And also where did you get these artworks? Some of them are good, others are... awkward. Would be good for 3DS' graphics though.