Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Swamp Sensei]

A galaxy stage should probably function similar to Delfino Plaza.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm not having the awesome that is Geno be beaten by an out of date RPG has been like Zozoark!!!

Edit:

Everyone else: "Logically it's either an alternate form or a new pokemon entirely"

IGN's reaction at Mewthree: "It's a Mewtwo Evolution!"

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'm not having the awesome that is Geno be beaten by an out of date RPG has been like Zozoark!!!

I see a bit of irony with this statement...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Everyone else: "Logically it's either an alternate form or a new pokemon entirely"

IGN's reaction at Mewthree: "It's a Mewtwo Evolution!"

...

Habanero. Can I borrow your sig for a minute? It'll be quick I swear.

 

[peeup]

Mewthree: Team Rocket tries to recreate Mewtwo. He is an entirely different Pokemon.

 

[Banjodorf]

K. Rool's still in 5th? Pfft. At least we know in Japan, he grinds his two current competitors into the dust. (Sorry Mac, but it's true. I still love you.) Waluigi too. Oh, 4chan. There are so many reasons I hate the entirety of you, but this is one of them. I don't mind Waluigi, but you've skewed the poll because I'm sure you don't actually give a damn.

 

[FalKoopa]

I've noticed that for every 100 votes, Isaac has been moving 1 vote closer to Waluigi. This has happened twice in a row.

 

[Frostwraith]

I didn't miss much, now did I?

So, 4chan has been casting troll votes on Waluigi... that's why I have suggested not to link that poll to that infamous board.

 

[Deleted member]

I think it's time I do the honor. 1408 votes:

Spoiler

1. Mega Man: 758
Special color just for him.

There's no denying that his popularity is massive overall. Mega Man is by far the most wanted third-party character (pretty much leaves everyone in the dust) and is no doubt among the Top 3 most wanted internationally, likely placing at #2. Sakurai has noted Mega Man's popularity for Smash ever since the pre-Melee day and since then, his fan base has only grown exponentially. The fact that it has continued to grow in spite of the past few years being hard on the Blue Bomber only shows resilience in the fans part whereas most other fan base would have started to collapse. If Sakurai were to go after a new third-party, it would almost certainly be Mega Man for his enormous popularity and long history with Nintendo and I do believe that there's a good possibility that Sakurai will do that. There's also the possibility of Capcom approaching Sakurai with Mega Man, but that's less likely, although given what we know, Capcom wouldn't object to Mega Man's inclusion in Smash.

I'd say that he has a good chance, especially for a third-party. Of course third-parties in themselves are a difficult situation as we don't know what will happen, but as far as I'm concern, he's the most likely third-party character (outside of Sonic and Snake). Fingers crossed that Mega Man is revealed at E3 2013 (since I do believe that's where our third-party will be revealed, although I could be wrong).

2. Mewtwo: 666

666. Sign of the end time?

Does this even need to be said? Mewtwo is in at this point. Likely the most wanted character, planned for all three games, #2 in the IGN Pokémon Poll, and just got an awesome new form. I will bet the equivalent of a Wii-U + Smash 4 on Mewtwo's inclusion. I am confident in a Brawl + Mewtwo situation occurring. I'm surprised that more people haven't discussed the possibility of Mewtwo being shown at E3 2013. I'm not betting on it but I could an E3 appearance happening. Also 50/50 on him being a starter/unlockable.

Also awesome is the fact that two of my most wanted characters are up in the Top 2 most wanted in Shortie's poll.

3. Ridley: 533

As echoed by many of his supporters, Ridley should have been playable in Brawl. He's the most wanted newcomer in the West and looks to be in the Top 5 overall (despite being barely requested in Japan, would place Ridley at #4). Plus he's one of the most important character not playable yet and I can't think of any realistic newcomers that is a more important addition than Ridley. Only thing holding him back is the minor possibility that Sakurai may find him too hard to work, but he's still highly likely nonetheless. Will probably be revealed at this E3 (although works better as unlockable material, but eh).

4. Little Mac: 518

Despite being barely requested in Japan, Little Mac breaks into the Top 5 (probably #5) thanks to his massive popularity in the West. Not only that, but he's the most qualified misc. rep that hasn't been rejected, being an important part of the NES history and remaining important thanks to the success of the new game. The possibility of him being rejected based on only being able to punch does exist, but considering that Urban Champion had far less to work with, it's not a major issue. Like Ridley, I expect him to be revealed at E3.

5. King K. Rool: 500

Pretty surprised to see Little Mac above King K. Rool, but I'm still pleased to see the Kremling King holding out really well. He is of course in the Top 5, but unlike Ridley and Little Mac, King K. Rool also has the advantage of being highly requested in Japan as well, which likely puts him at #3. K. Rool is an important character in DK history; having appeared in all of the best-selling DK titles (except DK Returns) and continuing to make important roles via the Paon games. Even with his recent absence, the King remains relevant in the eyes of gamer. Plus unlike Mega Man, he's not third-party and unlike Little Mac and Ridley, he would not have any trouble fitting into Smash. I'd say that he is the most likely newcomer to be added (only character more likely are almost every veteran and Mewtwo) and I'm certain that DK will get a newcomer. Personally, I think he should be the villain reveal for E3 since he works better as one than Ridley, but I think while he will be a starter, fans will be waiting for awhile.

6. Waluigi: 432

The Top Five all have good chances. Mega Man is an iconic character in video game history, Mewtwo is an awesome Legendary who was important to the 1st gen and looks to be our 6th gen mascot, Ridley is Samus's rival who terrorizes Samus in her sleep, Little Mac is unequivocally the best misc. rep and King K. Rool is an important villain in the DK franchise.

What the Top Five all have in common is that they are important and as such, are worthy additions for more than just being popular. Compare that to Waluigi, who's biggest role is ummmm... a boss in a dancing game? An antagonist in a spin-off game twelve years ago in Mario Party 3? Not to mention that he's only appeared in sports and party games?

Waluigi isn't important to the Mario franchise at all. Sure he's appeared in a ton of spin-off games but quantity of games doesn't do much to take away from the fact that he has a shoddy record in importance. Popularity is literally all he's got going for him and I doubt he's really up this high anyway since the vote was clearly influenced by 4Chan.

I like him, but let's face it, he's not a good choice. Sakurai is going to hold Mario characters to extremely high standards so we don't even know if a Mario rep is going to happen, but if Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario and Dr. Mario can't cut it for this game, there's no way Sakurai is going to think Waluigi will be any different. Assist trophy is the fans best bet for a Smash appearance, unless you want to make the argument of a very unlikely situation where Mario gets two newcomers and Sakurai wants to include Waluigi... but are we honestly expecting that much for a franchise where Sakurai has expressed concerns about adding too much Mario characters?

7. Isaac: 418

The Golden Sun fan base has existed for a very long time. Like Ridley and Mega Man, Isaac has been highly requested ever since shortly after pre-Melee (and in Mega Man and Ridley's case, even before). He was probably in the Top 10 pre-Brawl and certainly within the Top 10 now (probably #6). His series is also one of the more important series left that hasn't been rejected yet (a la Mii's in pre-Brawl). The fact that it has existed for so long despite mediocre sales of Dark Dawn shows the strong impression that the first two games had on the fans. Isaac does face the issue of his fan base mostly collapsing in Japan (although to be fair, it's better than what Mac and Ridley get), but Sakurai will almost certainly have more Western focus on character additions and that may very well be enough for Sakurai to add Isaac in (the only ones with better prospects are Little Mac and arguably Shulk). He probably won't get shown at E3 and it's hard to say whenever or not he'd be starter or an unlockable.

8. Palutena: 375

Even with Sakurai's concern for over-representing his own franchise, Palutena still ranks among the most likely newcomer. She's by far the most wanted female addition for Smash 4 and is within the Top 10 overall (probably #7). Plus she's highly important to her own series, with the series being called "Palutena's Mirror" in Japan and being important in all three games (especially the latter). Not to mention that Kirby and Kid Icarus are different situations. Kirby is Sakurai's baby, Kid Icarus he simply picked up for one game. Kirby has no characters that are nearly as important as the one we have, Palutena is close to Pit himself in importance. I expect her to be revealed at E3 this year and ToiseOfChoice will be eating his own words.

9. Roy: 360

"Fire" Emblem is apparently a bad word. Every time someone discusses it, a fire occurs, trapping the posters and the viewers into a scene of hell within the Smash community.

Like Mewtwo, Roy was a cut veteran from Melee that was planned but likely cut due to time constraints. That indicates that Sakurai is very likely interested in bringing Roy back, so I do imagine he will be planned for this game. Plus he along with Mewtwo are by far the most wanted character in Japan and the only ones that are very highly requested overall. Roy also fares well with popularity here, falling in the Top 10 (he is probably the eight most wanted character). Sakurai sees more with Roy than just a cheap promotion as he was added to promote the entire Fire Emblem series and not just his own game, not to mention is the most important lord of FE6.

Unlike Mewtwo, Roy has the issue of facing a legitimate competition with Chrom for the third Fire Emblem spot (Ike is almost certainly returning), but at this point, it is possible that Sakurai may not see the need to add a Fire Emblem newcomer, considering that he already has three good choices already in, but there's also the possibility of us getting four FE characters, in which case Marth, Ike, Roy and Chrom are good as guarantees (but a four character situation isn't as likely). Overall, Roy has good chances. If in, he will be an unlockable like last time.

10. Ghirahim: 359

Ghirahim's situation is different from that from other one-shots from Zelda namely in that he's pretty much the chain in motion for many of the Zelda games to come (such as Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess). Without Ghirahim, there would be no Demise, no Ganondorf and Hyrule wouldn't be such an important focal point in the game. Seems to be the opposite of Waluigi in that his one game appearance is very important. Popularity helps as well, thought I am not sure how popular he is now (certainly in the Top 15, either #11 or #10), but not as much as his one appearance.

That being said, a Zelda rep is not likely, but if we do get one, it will probably be him (only other possible choice at this moment is Toon Zelda. I know there's Tingle, but I really see disinterest from Sakurai here). If he does get in, he is 100% sure-fire unlockable.

11. Bowser Jr. 350

Junior has the advantage of being a popular requests (either #11 or #10) and a character that most wouldn't object to (as opposed to Waluigi with his unimportance, Toad who would be seen as "boring" by many and Paper Mario who is an alternate Mario a la Doctor Mario). Another thing that helps is that he has been prominent in Mario games recently and is an important part of the franchise now. I don't see him being dropped anytime soon. Plus he would work out great as a last-minute clone addition if Sakurai really wants one and he seems to be one of the more likely contenders.

Deciding on a Mario newcomer is difficult, especially when a Mario rep is still a matter of "if" at this point. But if one gets added, Junior is certainly a contender for the spot and even if he doesn't get in now, he'll probably have a much better chance come Smash 5 if he remains important to his series and increase in popularity. Just feel as Smash 4 may not be his time. But if he were added, Junior would probably be an unlockable.

12. Chrom: 321

A lot of his supporters merely support him based on the expectations of getting a Fire Emblem newcomer and as such, gets the advantage of being called "teh inev4table" (even though there are quite a few characters with better resumes). Still though, he does have decent popularity (although not as much as Roy) and while not as prominent in his game due to FE13 essentially being a Fire Emblem All-Stars, he is the lord of FE13 so he does have some importance. I'd put his chances at 50/50 of making it. If in, he'll likely be unlockable, but there's an off-chance he'll be a starter like Ike.

13. Shulk: 314

It seem as every passing day makes Shulk a more likely addition in Smash. Once he was simply along the many unlikely newcomers that seems to be dashed aside, now it looks as Shulk is a likely contender for Smash 4.

Shulk should probably be ninth most wanted newcomer. He's highly requested for a spot and few are against his addition in the next Smash game (unlike Waluigi, Roy or to a lesser extend, Ghirahim). His story with also seems like a fairy tail story of some sort. Take a franchise that looks like a Japanese-exclusive permanently, have fans beg for it's release worldwide. Then the game sells pretty well despite the odds and the character as a result, is highly requested. It seems as a fitting end would be for Shulk to join the cast of Smash Bros. The only real issue is that Sakurai may not see an Xenoblade rep as worthy of a spot, especially when Punch-Out!! and Golden Sun are already bigger series, but even then, Xenoblade is pretty much the third best choice for a character. Even if for some reason Shulk doesn't get in, I'm sure that a Xenoblade rep of some sort will show up in Smash 5. Shulk will likely be a starter if he gets in Smash 4, thought I doubt an E3 appearance.

14. Pac-Man: 280

I've doubted a Namco rep ever since I've first started speculating on this site and nothing has changed for me to believe otherwise.

I would type up an essay of some sort as to why, but I've already done that in the third-party discussion thread hosted by volbound1000. To summarized, I doubt Namco Bandai working with Nintendo has any effect on us getting a Namco rep, I don't see his popularity doing anything to convince Sakurai that he should be added (especially when we're not even sure if Mega Man's enormous popularity will get him in), I haven't seen any interest from Namco (there's interest for a Tales and Tekken rep, but they haven't said anything about Pac-Man), Miyamoto doesn't have any direct control over third-parties since Sakurai stated he and he alone decides them, and most importantly, I don't think Sakurai is interested in Pac-Man. Pac-Man's only chance comes from his super iconic status, but since that didn't get him in Brawl, I don't think it is nearly as significant as supporters think. But if he does get in, he'll show at E3 (since as I said before, a third-party will likely be shown at E3 if anyone gets in)

15. Krystal: 277

Queen of Sauria or as h8ters called him, the Queen of Furries.

This one is really tough to decide on. Krystal is in if we get a fourth Star Fox rep. She certainly won't be replacing anyone (and anyone who suggests this doesn't know how Sakurai decides characters), but there isn't any reason to expect anyone else from Star Fox either. She was massively popular in the West during pre-Brawl and she still remains decently requested to this day. Also, Krystal never really had a chance to be in Brawl since Wolf was obviously going to take priority over her and Sakurai hadn't heard of her before the Brawl poll. Basically, this is her first shot of getting into a Smash game, especially since Sakurai will be drawing from pre-Brawl stuff (notice how Sakurai drew mainly from pre-Melee contents during Brawl).

We'll have to see. Like Chrom, she's a 50/50 but for different reasons. If she does get in, she'll likely be a starter (have a hard time picturing her as an unlockable for some reason)

16. Zoroark: 268

Zoroark's chances of getting in Smash has gone down the toilet along with every other potential Pokémon newcomer (except for maybe Plusle & Minun, but only if they were planned, which is a big if). Mewtwo is going to be representing the 6th gen and Lucario is far more popular than Zoroark. The Pokémon Company is going to want to prioritize Brawl + Mewtwo over anyone else and I doubt either they or Sakurai wants to cut anyone.

Zoroark might be decently popular (although somewhat expected but not wanted), but he simply isn't getting in. Had development started a year earlier, he would have had a good chance, but as it stands, Zoroark is a victim of timing.

17. Geno: 255

If the rumor is true that Sakurai went to approach Geno pre-Brawl but couldn't get him, then Geno does have a shot at getting in, albeit an off-shot one.

We have to remember that Geno was extremely popular pre-Brawl (probably within the Top 5 overall before the Brawl roster leak) and still remains decently popular, so his fan base, while considerably receded, is still alive and well. We will probably get a decent amount of requests for Geno for Smash 4, though it would pale in comparison to pre-Brawl.

His main issue is his utter lack of importance and Square being difficult to work with in regards to allowing third-parties in Smash (after all, Cloud didn't get in Playstation All-Stars when he should have been an obvious third-party addition and there was difficulties negotiating with Square on this), but if Square were to work with anyone, it'd be Nintendo and there's a very distant off-chance that Sakurai might approach Square with this again. If he did get in, however, he'd probably be considered a Mario character but like all third-parties, be an unlockable.

18. Toad: 221

How disappointing.

Toad is barely requested in Japan (along with a Mario newcomer in general) and he doesn't get all that much demand in the West as well. You'd think with him becoming more prominent in recent games that he would have been in the Top 10. Unfortunately, it seems as he just can't shake off the stigma that he can't work in Smash and we don't know how Sakurai feels about Toad getting in.

He is, however, a very important part of the franchise and if Waluigi is any indication, popularity will not play a part in who gets in (so it's really down to Toad, Junior, and maybe Paper Mario for a Mario newcomer since they have some importance to the franchise). Sakurai has also mentioned in Toad's Brawl trophy description that he was aware of his superhuman capabilities, so Sakurai has some knowledge of what Toad can do.

Hopefully Toad can get in this game, because this is his very last shot. But it's hard to say.

19. Takamaru: 215

Takamaru isn't very wanted overall, but let's face it, most of the community haven't heard of him, so this comes at no surprise.

He's still among the most likely newcomers though since popularity won't play a role in who gets in like last time. One thing Takamaru has going for him is that, he, in a way, has already been revived. Sakurai stated that if he were to be in a new game, he would probably get into Smash. So far, he's had several game appearance, one in Captain Rainbow, one in WarioWare: D.I.Y., one in Nintendo Land and another in Samurai Warriors 3. Also what helps is that he's essentially Zelda's sister series, which gives off some importance about him.

Sakurai has had his eyes on him for a long time and he's almost guarantee to put him in now. Expect him at E3. He'll be a starter for sure if he gets in.

20. Dixie Kong: 199

Dixie Kong scores surprisingly low here. In Japan, she's highly wanted for Smash, which is a good thing. Yet ironically, this doesn't transfer over to the West. So Japanese popularity helps, not so much Western popularity. Her importance is also helped by the fact that she was pretty important in DKC2 and DKC3, of which many gamers have fond memories of and she did appear in the Paon games, so she is at least somewhat relevant.

Probably the thing that helps her the most is her Forbidden Seven data. Originally, she was planned to be paired with Diddy Kong, but she was dropped due to complications with the duo. Now this could go either way, but it does show that Sakurai at least has some interest in her and since Diddy is established as his own character, Sakurai will be taking a further look at her as her own character. She has a pretty good chance of making it in, but she won't be at E3. Dixie could either be starter or unlockable.

21. Saki: 185

The thing that helps Saki the most is Sakurai's fondness of him. Sakurai commented on how Saki would fit right in the game, indicating that Sakurai has seriously considered Saki as playable in the past. Not to mention that Sakurai has also shown his love for the game, as elements from Sin & Punishment has influenced Kid Icarus. Normally, Sakurai would keep his bias out of the game, but if he sees Sin & Punishment as good of an influence on him as it has been, then perhaps Sakurai sees Saki as being a possibly worthy contender of a spot.

However, Saki faces some very major obstacles, namely struggling with being very unimportant to Nintendo and him not being very wanted (although I'm sure he'd be very popular if he got in). Giving Saki a 50/50 here. Seems like a starter material if he gets in, although definitely is not touching an E3 trailer.

22. Samurai Goroh: 180

A very "middle of the road" character. Not a very popular suggestion (sadly), but enough to where he gets brought up from time to time. He's not super important to F-zero, but he does stand out due to being the most well-known after Captain Falcon and being his rival. I also imagine that Sakurai has kept an eye on him ever since pre-Melee, even if his popularity has not kept up. He's not too likely, but I'm getting a feeling that Sakurai will finally add him. If he gets in, he will show up as an unlockable while Captain Falcon becomes a starter (I don't see both being unlockables).

23. Black Shadow: 144

Black Shadow fares even worse than Goroh in this situation. Black Shadow in the West is generally seen as a "hey, let's add him to take Ganondorf's move set so Ganondorf can be unique" character, so the support is mostly a Ganondorf-uniqueness movement in disguise (although there are exceptions and Japan is somewhat of a different story). Plus I don't feel as Sakurai has been keeping his eyes on Black Shadow as a serious contender. There's a some hope that he gets in considering that Black Shadow's voice actor in the F-zero anime would love to voice him in Smash 4, but things are not looking good for him. Like Goroh, if he did show up, he's definitely in as an unlockable.

24. Mona: 140

I really don't see us getting a Wario character. There just isn't anything I see out of these characters that makes me think that he'll take a second Wario character seriously, plus it's not as most people are asking for one. But if we do get one, Mona is it and she'll probably be a starter.

25. Bandanna Dee: 139

He's the definitive fourth Kirby rep thanks to Return in Dreamland giving him a prominent role. Most people are also fine with him being in, so he's a safe addition to make.

But this is Sakurai we're talking about. He's probably not going to want to add a fourth on after already adding two very highly requested and very important characters. Plus Bandanna Dee isn't exactly wanted either. If Bandanna Dee were to become more important, he'd probably have a much better chance at Smash 5. Smash 4 is possible, but no more. If he were to get in, he would probably be an unlockable.
[/collapsed]

So there you have it. Took me a long longer to type this than I thought.

Edit: Collapsed since it's really long.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Apparently I was too subtle

 

[bobadz]

I think it's time I do the honor. 1408 votes:

Spoiler

1. Mega Man: 758
Special color just for him.

There's no denying that his popularity is massive overall. Mega Man is by far the most wanted third-party character (pretty much leaves everyone in the dust) and is no doubt among the Top 3 most wanted internationally, likely placing at #2. Sakurai has noted Mega Man's popularity for Smash ever since the pre-Melee day and since then, his fan base has only grown exponentially. The fact that it has continued to grow in spite of the past few years being hard on the Blue Bomber only shows resilience in the fans part whereas most other fan base would have started to collapse. If Sakurai were to go after a new third-party, it would almost certainly be Mega Man for his enormous popularity and long history with Nintendo and I do believe that there's a good possibility that Sakurai will do that. There's also the possibility of Capcom approaching Sakurai with Mega Man, but that's less likely, although given what we know, Capcom wouldn't object to Mega Man's inclusion in Smash.

I'd say that he has a good chance, especially for a third-party. Of course third-parties in themselves are a difficult situation as we don't know what will happen, but as far as I'm concern, he's the most likely third-party character (outside of Sonic and Snake). Fingers crossed that Mega Man is revealed at E3 2013 (since I do believe that's where our third-party will be revealed, although I could be wrong).

2. Mewtwo: 666

666. Sign of the end time?

Does this even need to be said? Mewtwo is in at this point. Likely the most wanted character, planned for all three games, #2 in the IGN Pokémon Poll, and just got an awesome new form. I will bet the equivalent of a Wii-U + Smash 4 on Mewtwo's inclusion. I am confident in a Brawl + Mewtwo situation occurring. I'm surprised that more people haven't discussed the possibility of Mewtwo being shown at E3 2013. I'm not betting on it but I could an E3 appearance happening. Also 50/50 on him being a starter/unlockable.

Also awesome is the fact that two of my most wanted characters are up in the Top 2 most wanted in Shortie's poll.

3. Ridley: 533

As echoed by many of his supporters, Ridley should have been playable in Brawl. He's the most wanted newcomer in the West and looks to be in the Top 5 overall (despite being barely requested in Japan, would place Ridley at #4). Plus he's one of the most important character not playable yet and I can't think of any realistic newcomers that is a more important addition than Ridley. Only thing holding him back is the minor possibility that Sakurai may find him too hard to work, but he's still highly likely nonetheless. Will probably be revealed at this E3 (although works better as unlockable material, but eh).

4. Little Mac: 518

Despite being barely requested in Japan, Little Mac breaks into the Top 5 (probably #5) thanks to his massive popularity in the West. Not only that, but he's the most qualified misc. rep that hasn't been rejected, being an important part of the NES history and remaining important thanks to the success of the new game. The possibility of him being rejected based on only being able to punch does exist, but considering that Urban Champion had far less to work with, it's not a major issue. Like Ridley, I expect him to be revealed at E3.

5. King K. Rool: 500

Pretty surprised to see Little Mac above King K. Rool, but I'm still pleased to see the Kremling King holding out really well. He is of course in the Top 5, but unlike Ridley and Little Mac, King K. Rool also has the advantage of being highly requested in Japan as well, which likely puts him at #3. K. Rool is an important character in DK history; having appeared in all of the best-selling DK titles (except DK Returns) and continuing to make important roles via the Paon games. Even with his recent absence, the King remains relevant in the eyes of gamer. Plus unlike Mega Man, he's not third-party and unlike Little Mac and Ridley, he would not have any trouble fitting into Smash. I'd say that he is the most likely newcomer to be added (only character more likely are almost every veteran and Mewtwo) and I'm certain that DK will get a newcomer. Personally, I think he should be the villain reveal for E3 since he works better as one than Ridley, but I think while he will be a starter, fans will be waiting for awhile.

6. Waluigi: 432

The Top Five all have good chances. Mega Man is an iconic character in video game history, Mewtwo is an awesome Legendary who was important to the 1st gen and looks to be our 6th gen mascot, Ridley is Samus's rival who terrorizes Samus in her sleep, Little Mac is unequivocally the best misc. rep and King K. Rool is an important villain in the DK franchise.

What the Top Five all have in common is that they are important and as such, are worthy additions for more than just being popular. Compare that to Waluigi, who's biggest role is ummmm... a boss in a dancing game? An antagonist in a spin-off game twelve years ago in Mario Party 3? Not to mention that he's only appeared in sports and party games?

Waluigi isn't important to the Mario franchise at all. Sure he's appeared in a ton of spin-off games but quantity of games doesn't do much to take away from the fact that he has a shoddy record in importance. Popularity is literally all he's got going for him and I doubt he's really up this high anyway since the vote was clearly influenced by 4Chan.

I like him, but let's face it, he's not a good choice. Sakurai is going to hold Mario characters to extremely high standards so we don't even know if a Mario rep is going to happen, but if Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario and Dr. Mario can't cut it for this game, there's no way Sakurai is going to think Waluigi will be any different. Assist trophy is the fans best bet for a Smash appearance, unless you want to make the argument of a very unlikely situation where Mario gets two newcomers and Sakurai wants to include Waluigi... but are we honestly expecting that much for a franchise where Sakurai has expressed concerns about adding too much Mario characters?

7. Isaac: 418

The Golden Sun fan base has existed for a very long time. Like Ridley and Mega Man, Isaac has been highly requested ever since shortly after pre-Melee (and in Mega Man and Ridley's case, even before). He was probably in the Top 10 pre-Brawl and certainly within the Top 10 now (probably #6). His series is also one of the more important series left that hasn't been rejected yet (a la Mii's in pre-Brawl). The fact that it has existed for so long despite mediocre sales of Dark Dawn shows the strong impression that the first two games had on the fans. Isaac does face the issue of his fan base mostly collapsing in Japan (although to be fair, it's better than what Mac and Ridley get), but Sakurai will almost certainly have more Western focus on character additions and that may very well be enough for Sakurai to add Isaac in (the only ones with better prospects are Little Mac and arguably Shulk). He probably won't get shown at E3 and it's hard to say whenever or not he'd be starter or an unlockable.

8. Palutena: 375

Even with Sakurai's concern for over-representing his own franchise, Palutena still ranks among the most likely newcomer. She's by far the most wanted female addition for Smash 4 and is within the Top 10 overall (probably #7). Plus she's highly important to her own series, with the series being called "Palutena's Mirror" in Japan and being important in all three games (especially the latter). Not to mention that Kirby and Kid Icarus are different situations. Kirby is Sakurai's baby, Kid Icarus he simply picked up for one game. Kirby has no characters that are nearly as important as the one we have, Palutena is close to Pit himself in importance. I expect her to be revealed at E3 this year and ToiseOfChoice will be eating his own words.

9. Roy: 360

"Fire" Emblem is apparently a bad word. Every time someone discusses it, a fire occurs, trapping the posters and the viewers into a scene of hell within the Smash community.

Like Mewtwo, Roy was a cut veteran from Melee that was planned but likely cut due to time constraints. That indicates that Sakurai is very likely interested in bringing Roy back, so I do imagine he will be planned for this game. Plus he along with Mewtwo are by far the most wanted character in Japan and the only ones that are very highly requested overall. Roy also fares well with popularity here, falling in the Top 10 (he is probably the eight most wanted character). Sakurai sees more with Roy than just a cheap promotion as he was added to promote the entire Fire Emblem series and not just his own game, not to mention is the most important lord of FE6.

Unlike Mewtwo, Roy has the issue of facing a legitimate competition with Chrom for the third Fire Emblem spot (Ike is almost certainly returning), but at this point, it is possible that Sakurai may not see the need to add a Fire Emblem newcomer, considering that he already has three good choices already in, but there's also the possibility of us getting four FE characters, in which case Marth, Ike, Roy and Chrom are good as guarantees (but a four character situation isn't as likely). Overall, Roy has good chances. If in, he will be an unlockable like last time.

10. Ghirahim: 359

Ghirahim's situation is different from that from other one-shots from Zelda namely in that he's pretty much the chain in motion for many of the Zelda games to come (such as Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess). Without Ghirahim, there would be no Demise, no Ganondorf and Hyrule wouldn't be such an important focal point in the game. Seems to be the opposite of Waluigi in that his one game appearance is very important. Popularity helps as well, thought I am not sure how popular he is now (certainly in the Top 15, either #11 or #10), but not as much as his one appearance.

That being said, a Zelda rep is not likely, but if we do get one, it will probably be him (only other possible choice at this moment is Toon Zelda. I know there's Tingle, but I really see disinterest from Sakurai here). If he does get in, he is 100% sure-fire unlockable.

11. Bowser Jr. 350

Junior has the advantage of being a popular requests (either #11 or #10) and a character that most wouldn't object to (as opposed to Waluigi with his unimportance, Toad who would be seen as "boring" by many and Paper Mario who is an alternate Mario a la Doctor Mario). Another thing that helps is that he has been prominent in Mario games recently and is an important part of the franchise now. I don't see him being dropped anytime soon. Plus he would work out great as a last-minute clone addition if Sakurai really wants one and he seems to be one of the more likely contenders.

Deciding on a Mario newcomer is difficult, especially when a Mario rep is still a matter of "if" at this point. But if one gets added, Junior is certainly a contender for the spot and even if he doesn't get in now, he'll probably have a much better chance come Smash 5 if he remains important to his series and increase in popularity. Just feel as Smash 4 may not be his time. But if he were added, Junior would probably be an unlockable.

12. Chrom: 321

A lot of his supporters merely support him based on the expectations of getting a Fire Emblem newcomer and as such, gets the advantage of being called "teh inev4table" (even though there are quite a few characters with better resumes). Still though, he does have decent popularity (although not as much as Roy) and while not as prominent in his game due to FE13 essentially being a Fire Emblem All-Stars, he is the lord of FE13 so he does have some importance. I'd put his chances at 50/50 of making it. If in, he'll likely be unlockable, but there's an off-chance he'll be a starter like Ike.

13. Shulk: 314

It seem as every passing day makes Shulk a more likely addition in Smash. Once he was simply along the many unlikely newcomers that seems to be dashed aside, now it looks as Shulk is a likely contender for Smash 4.

Shulk should probably be ninth most wanted newcomer. He's highly requested for a spot and few are against his addition in the next Smash game (unlike Waluigi, Roy or to a lesser extend, Ghirahim). His story with also seems like a fairy tail story of some sort. Take a franchise that looks like a Japanese-exclusive permanently, have fans beg for it's release worldwide. Then the game sells pretty well despite the odds and the character as a result, is highly requested. It seems as a fitting end would be for Shulk to join the cast of Smash Bros. The only real issue is that Sakurai may not see an Xenoblade rep as worthy of a spot, especially when Punch-Out!! and Golden Sun are already bigger series, but even then, Xenoblade is pretty much the third best choice for a character. Even if for some reason Shulk doesn't get in, I'm sure that a Xenoblade rep of some sort will show up in Smash 5. Shulk will likely be a starter if he gets in Smash 4, thought I doubt an E3 appearance.

14. Pac-Man: 280

I've doubted a Namco rep ever since I've first started speculating on this site and nothing has changed for me to believe otherwise.

I would type up an essay of some sort as to why, but I've already done that in the third-party discussion thread hosted by volbound1000. To summarized, I doubt Namco Bandai working with Nintendo has any effect on us getting a Namco rep, I don't see his popularity doing anything to convince Sakurai that he should be added (especially when we're not even sure if Mega Man's enormous popularity will get him in), I haven't seen any interest from Namco (there's interest for a Tales and Tekken rep, but they haven't said anything about Pac-Man), Miyamoto doesn't have any direct control over third-parties since Sakurai stated he and he alone decides them, and most importantly, I don't think Sakurai is interested in Pac-Man. Pac-Man's only chance comes from his super iconic status, but since that didn't get him in Brawl, I don't think it is nearly as significant as supporters think. But if he does get in, he'll show at E3 (since as I said before, a third-party will likely be shown at E3 if anyone gets in)

15. Krystal: 277

Queen of Sauria or as h8ters called him, the Queen of Furries.

This one is really tough to decide on. Krystal is in if we get a fourth Star Fox rep. She certainly won't be replacing anyone (and anyone who suggests this doesn't know how Sakurai decides characters), but there isn't any reason to expect anyone else from Star Fox either. She was massively popular in the West during pre-Brawl and she still remains decently requested to this day. Also, Krystal never really had a chance to be in Brawl since Wolf was obviously going to take priority over her and Sakurai hadn't heard of her before the Brawl poll. Basically, this is her first shot of getting into a Smash game, especially since Sakurai will be drawing from pre-Brawl stuff (notice how Sakurai drew mainly from pre-Melee contents during Brawl).

We'll have to see. Like Chrom, she's a 50/50 but for different reasons. If she does get in, she'll likely be a starter (have a hard time picturing her as an unlockable for some reason)

16. Zoroark: 268

Zoroark's chances of getting in Smash has gone down the toilet along with every other potential Pokémon newcomer (except for maybe Plusle & Minun, but only if they were planned, which is a big if). Mewtwo is going to be representing the 6th gen and Lucario is far more popular than Zoroark. The Pokémon Company is going to want to prioritize Brawl + Mewtwo over anyone else and I doubt either they or Sakurai wants to cut anyone.

Zoroark might be decently popular (although somewhat expected but not wanted), but he simply isn't getting in. Had development started a year earlier, he would have had a good chance, but as it stands, Zoroark is a victim of timing.

17. Geno: 255

If the rumor is true that Sakurai went to approach Geno pre-Brawl but couldn't get him, then Geno does have a shot at getting in, albeit an off-shot one.

We have to remember that Geno was extremely popular pre-Brawl (probably within the Top 5 overall before the Brawl roster leak) and still remains decently popular, so his fan base, while considerably receded, is still alive and well. We will probably get a decent amount of requests for Geno for Smash 4, though it would pale in comparison to pre-Brawl.

His main issue is his utter lack of importance and Square being difficult to work with in regards to allowing third-parties in Smash (after all, Cloud didn't get in Playstation All-Stars when he should have been an obvious third-party addition and there was difficulties negotiating with Square on this), but if Square were to work with anyone, it'd be Nintendo and there's a very distant off-chance that Sakurai might approach Square with this again. If he did get in, however, he'd probably be considered a Mario character but like all third-parties, be an unlockable.

18. Toad: 221

How disappointing.

Toad is barely requested in Japan (along with a Mario newcomer in general) and he doesn't get all that much demand in the West as well. You'd think with him becoming more prominent in recent games that he would have been in the Top 10. Unfortunately, it seems as he just can't shake off the stigma that he can't work in Smash and we don't know how Sakurai feels about Toad getting in.

He is, however, a very important part of the franchise and if Waluigi is any indication, popularity will not play a part in who gets in (so it's really down to Toad, Junior, and maybe Paper Mario for a Mario newcomer since they have some importance to the franchise). Sakurai has also mentioned in Toad's Brawl trophy description that he was aware of his superhuman capabilities, so Sakurai has some knowledge of what Toad can do.

Hopefully Toad can get in this game, because this is his very last shot. But it's hard to say.

19. Takamaru: 215

Takamaru isn't very wanted overall, but let's face it, most of the community haven't heard of him, so this comes at no surprise.

He's still among the most likely newcomers though since popularity won't play a role in who gets in like last time. One thing Takamaru has going for him is that, he, in a way, has already been revived. Sakurai stated that if he were to be in a new game, he would probably get into Smash. So far, he's had several game appearance, one in Captain Rainbow, one in WarioWare: D.I.Y., one in Nintendo Land and another in Samurai Warriors 3. Also what helps is that he's essentially Zelda's sister series, which gives off some importance about him.

Sakurai has had his eyes on him for a long time and he's almost guarantee to put him in now. Expect him at E3. He'll be a starter for sure if he gets in.

20. Dixie Kong: 199
Dixie Kong scores surprisingly low here. In Japan, she's highly wanted for Smash, which is a good thing. Yet ironically, this doesn't transfer over to the West. So Japanese popularity helps, not so much Western popularity. Her importance is also helped by the fact that she was pretty important in DKC2 and DKC3, of which many gamers have fond memories of and she did appear in the Paon games, so she is at least somewhat relevant.

Probably the thing that helps her the most is her Forbidden Seven data. Originally, she was planned to be paired with Diddy Kong, but she was dropped due to complications with the duo. Now this could go either way, but it does show that Sakurai at least has some interest in her and since Diddy is established as his own character, Sakurai will be taking a further look at her as her own character. She has a pretty good chance of making it in, but she won't be at E3. Dixie could either be starter or unlockable.

21. Saki: 185

The thing that helps Saki the most is Sakurai's fondness of him. Sakurai commented on how Saki would fit right in the game, indicating that Sakurai has seriously considered Saki as playable in the past. Not to mention that Sakurai has also shown his love for the game, as elements from Sin & Punishment has influenced Kid Icarus. Normally, Sakurai would keep his bias out of the game, but if he sees Sin & Punishment as good of an influence on him as it has been, then perhaps Sakurai sees Saki as being a possibly worthy contender of a spot.

However, Saki faces some very major obstacles, namely struggling with being very unimportant to Nintendo and him not being very wanted (although I'm sure he'd be very popular if he got in). Giving Saki a 50/50 here. Seems like a starter material if he gets in, although definitely is not touching an E3 trailer.

22. Samurai Goroh: 180

A very "middle of the road" character. Not a very popular suggestion (sadly), but enough to where he gets brought up from time to time. He's not super important to F-zero, but he does stand out due to being the most well-known after Captain Falcon and being his rival. I also imagine that Sakurai has kept an eye on him ever since pre-Melee, even if his popularity has not kept up. He's not too likely, but I'm getting a feeling that Sakurai will finally add him. If he gets in, he will show up as an unlockable while Captain Falcon becomes a starter (I don't see both being unlockables).

23. Black Shadow: 144

Black Shadow fares even worse than Goroh in this situation. Black Shadow in the West is generally seen as a "hey, let's add him to take Ganondorf's move set so Ganondorf can be unique" character, so the support is mostly a Ganondorf-uniqueness movement in disguise (although there are exceptions and Japan is somewhat of a different story). Plus I don't feel as Sakurai has been keeping his eyes on Black Shadow as a serious contender. There's a some hope that he gets in considering that Black Shadow's voice actor in the F-zero anime would love to voice him in Smash 4, but things are not looking good for him. Like Goroh, if he did show up, he's definitely in as an unlockable.

24. Mona: 140

I really don't see us getting a Wario character. There just isn't anything I see out of these characters that makes me think that he'll take a second Wario character seriously, plus it's not as most people are asking for one. But if we do get one, Mona is it and she'll probably be a starter.

25. Bandanna Dee: 139

He's the definitive fourth Kirby rep thanks to Return in Dreamland giving him a prominent role. Most people are also fine with him being in, so he's a safe addition to make.

But this is Sakurai we're talking about. He's probably not going to want to add a fourth on after already adding two very highly requested and very important characters. Plus Bandanna Dee isn't exactly wanted either. If Bandanna Dee were to become more important, he'd probably have a much better chance at Smash 5. Smash 4 is possible, but no more.
[/collapsed]

So there you have it. Took me a long longer to type this than I thought.

Edit: Collapsed since it's really long. [/[/collapsed]

Good job.

Apparently I was too subtle

How?

 

[Vintage Creep]

Why isn't Paper Mario on this list at all? ç_ç

 

[bobadz]

Indeed

For the brawl characters , Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Wario, Link, Pikachu, Samus, Kirby, Fox, Pit, Lucas, Marth, Captain Falcon, Olimar, R.O.B, Mr Game & Watch, Snake, and Sonic would have the same themes from brawl.

Luigi would have a variation of the luigi's mansion theme.
Bowser would have a variation of bowser's castle theme.
Peach would have a variation of the theme of super princess peach.
Diddy would have a variation of the DKC2 main theme.
Zelda would have a variation of Zelda' lullaby.
Shiek would have a variation of Sheik's theme.
Ganondorf would have a variation of Ganondorf's theme.
Toon Link would have a Variation of the Great Sea's theme.
Jigglypuff would have her lullaby ( can't think of anything else)
Pokemon Trainer would have a variation of the level up theme.
Lucario would have a variation of Gen IV's battle theme
Zero Suit Samus would have a variation of theme of Samus Aran
Meta Knight would have a variation of revenge of the Meta Knight
Kind DeDeDe would have a Variation of his theme.
Falco would have a variation of his theme
Wolf would have a variation of the star wolf theme
Ness would have the Mother Melee victory fanfare
And Ike Would have a variation of his theme.

Did I miss anybody from Brawl?

Okay continuing
Toad SMB2 stage clear
K Rool gangplank galleon
Ghiraham his theme
Ridley his theme
Palutena kid Icarus theme variation
Bandana Dee return to dreamland theme.
Krystal themo from star fox adventures
Mewtwo gen 1 battle theme variation
Roy theme of fire emblem 6
Chrom theme of Fire Emblem 13
Issac golden sun main theme
Takamaru stage clear
Shulk main theme of Xenoblad
Little Mac main theme of punch out!!!
Megaman stage clear.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I can't understand the hate Chrom gets, his character is quite nice, he owns an awesome weapon, if you have any bit of brain in you (Of course Sakurai has a brain that's why he is developing the game not you) you will definitely put Chrom before Roy (hell I'm the ultimate Ike fan, I even think Chrom has the prio over Ike but still we are assuming 3 FE reps).

People will argue that Roy has immense popularity and all that ****, but he only garnered this popularity from SSBM (don't stop reading here continue). Now we are talking about Chrom the main character of the most popular Fire Emblem to date, what if he had a chance just like Roy and got put in SSB4 ? I'm pretty sure he will equally have the same popularity as Roy (maybe even more) after all we all know Ike is now more popular than Roy, why is that ? because people actually played his game, till now the only people who played Roy's game are only hardcore Fire Emblem fans and the Japan crowd.

So what are the most Logical and probable reps?

Marth and Chrom (2 reps)

Marth, Ike and Chrom (3 reps)

Marth, Ike, Chrom and Roy/(2nd Awakening rep) ( 4 reps)
.....

and if you think that's my fanboyism talking I think you should know better because all the name will be filled with "Ike" instead...

 

[Vintage Creep]

I don't know Fire Emblem at all so I don't really care. I'd like to have Lucina though, not only I like her but a female rep would spice things up.

Spoiler

Yep, Lucina instead of Marth.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I don't know Fire Emblem at all so I don't really care. I'd like to have Lucina though, not only I like her but a female rep would spice things up.

Spoiler

Yep, Lucina instead of Marth.

I hate Marth so much, it will actually be a dream come true if Lucina replaced Marth atleast her having a Tiara and doing flamboyant poses will make more sense, (small question are
you by any chance a Calcio fan ?)

 

[Arcadenik]

Personally I wouldn't mind cutting Marth for Lucina. I mean, Marth already looks like a girl anyway that Sakurai might as well keep Marth's model but rename him "Lucina" and call it a day.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Personally I wouldn't mind cutting Marth for Lucina. I mean, Marth already looks like a girl anyway that Sakurai might as well keep Marth's model but rename him "Lucina" and call it a day.

Well, you'll never know maybe going to take one character from each continent which will make Marth, Lucina and Chrom fight it over....Ike will have no one to fight and Roy will have to fight Lyndis .

 

[ChronoBound]

Well, you'll never know maybe going to take one character from each continent which will make Marth, Lucina and Chrom fight it over....Ike will have no one to fight and Roy will have to fight Lyndis .

You might as well say Ike will have to fight with Micaiah, since Micaiah's popularity is similar to that of Lyn. In reality, its Marth for Akaneia, Roy for Elibe, and Ike for Tellius. If Marth had to fight Chrom for an Akaeneia spot, Chrom would get eaten alive. Relevancy is also a moot point against Marth since he had two games since Brawl's release, and was free DLC for the first month of FE13's release (showing how prominent he is as a lord within even FE13).

Also, anyone who says Marth would be cut for ANYONE is a fool. We are more likely to get Marth alone, than for Marth to be cut. Not to mention FE3 is by far the most popular game in the series in Japan (it even recently became part of the 30 cent Virtual Console deal in Japan), and probably Sakurai's favorite (Nabarl/Navarre is his favorite FE character, and Sakurai even has a copy of FE3 on his Wii's Virtual Console, and did the Iwata Asks for FE11 which is a remake of Book 1 for FE3).

Those who talk about Marth being cut for Lucina are extremely deluded. Its the equivalent of cutting Zelda for Midna.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

You might as well say Ike will have to fight with Micaiah, since Micaiah's popularity is similar to that of Lyn. In reality, its Marth for Akaneia, Roy for Elibe, and Ike for Tellius. If Marth had to fight Chrom for an Akaeneia spot, Chrom would get eaten alive. Relevancy is also a moot point against Marth since he had two games since Brawl's release, and was free DLC for the first month of FE13's release (showing how prominent he is as a lord within even FE13).

Also, anyone who says Marth would be cut for ANYONE is a fool. We are more likely to get Marth alone, than for Marth to be cut. Not to mention FE3 is by far the most popular game in the series in Japan (it even recently became part of the 30 cent Virtual Console deal in Japan), and probably Sakurai's favorite (Nabarl/Navarre is his favorite FE character, and Sakurai even has a copy of FE3 on his Wii's Virtual Console, and did the Iwata Asks for FE11 which is a remake of Book 1 for FE3).

Those who talk about Marth being cut for Lucina are extremely deluded. Its the equivalent of cutting Zelda for Midna.

Chrono I don't want to argue with you because you are quite aggressive which shows fanboyism, when you quit being a fanboy come talk to me....

 

[ChronoBound]

Chrono I don't want to argue with you because you are quite aggressive which shows fanboyism, when you quit being a fanboy come talk to me....

Its not fanboyism when someone says Marth is the most iconic lord of the entire Fire Emblem series. You would be hard-pressed to find someone who disagrees with that.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Its not fanboyism when someone says Marth is the most iconic lord of the entire Fire Emblem series. You would be hard-pressed to find someone who disagrees with that.

Well you could've said without insulting people, first of all you don't know what's happening in the SSB.4 roster , after all Fire Emblem Awakening was pushed so much, if they didn't do advertisement before they will do now, even in the expense of Marth, I don't think Marth will be removed but I would love if that character was replaced, atleast they will release themselves from a fail mascot.

 

[ChronoBound]

Well you could've said without insulting people, first of all you don't know what's happening in the SSB.4 roster , after all Fire Emblem Awakening was pushed so much, if they didn't do advertisement before they will do now, even in the expense of Marth, I don't think Marth will be removed but I would love if that character was replaced, atleast they will release themselves from a fail mascot.

I did not insult anyone. All I said is that people whom believe Marth would be cut for any FE character is a fool.

Also, the line that:

first of all you don't know what's happening in the SSB.4 roster

is empty. I think its safe to say that there are many characters in Brawl that we are 99% certain that they will return for Smash 4. Marth is one of them (due to his promience in the FE series, and having two new games released since Brawl).

Also, you point about:

after all Fire Emblem Awakening was pushed so much, if they didn't do advertisement before they will do now, even in the expense of Marth,

makes no sense. Marth himself was used to promote FE13's release in both Japan and North America (Marth was being given away as free DLC for the first month of FE13's release). In Japan, FE3 was re-released recently for 30 cents (yen) on the Wii U's Virtual Console. This all shows even with the release of Awakening, Marth is still a figure that is used to entice people to the series.

atleast they will release themselves from a fail mascot

How in any way is Marth a failed mascot? One of the lords in the latest game is clearly a genderswap version of him. Marth still brings in hype and interest to the series. He is still used to promote games (every FE game since Brawl's release was strongly connected to him). Marth was incredibly popular as a character prior to even entering Smash Bros. When Sakurai gave the Japanese fanbase a poll, Marth was by far the most wanted character to represent the series, even despite his game well over five years ago by that point, and FE4 and FE5 being far fresher in people's minds.

You could put up a better case that Ike was a "failed mascot" since FE9/FE10 sold poorly relative to the rest of the games in the series (note, I do like Ike).

 

[Vintage Creep]

I hate Marth so much, it will actually be a dream come true if Lucina replaced Marth atleast her having a Tiara and doing flamboyant poses will make more sense, (small question are
you by any chance a Calcio fan ?)

Not at all, I am one of the few italians who hate soccer.
Anyway I don't dislike Marth so much since I don't really know him as a character, so I can judge him simply by the way he looks, and he's grown boring to me,

 

[BluePikmin11]

The Galaxy stage should have the planet physics like in Super Mario Galaxy.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I did not insult anyone. All I said is that people whom believe Marth would be cut for any FE character is a fool.

Also, the line that:


is empty. I think its safe to say that there are many characters in Brawl that we are 99% certain that they will return for Smash 4. Marth is one of them (due to his promience in the FE series, and having two new games released since Brawl).

Also, you point about:


makes no sense. Marth himself was used to promote FE13's release in both Japan and North America (Marth was being given away as free DLC for the first month of FE13's release). In Japan, FE3 was re-released recently for 30 cents (yen) on the Wii U's Virtual Console. This all shows even with the release of Awakening, Marth is still a figure that is used to entice people to the series.



How in any way is Marth a failed mascot? One of the lords in the latest game is clearly a genderswap version of him. Marth still brings in hype and interest to the series. He is still used to promote games (every FE game since Brawl's release was strongly connected to him). Marth was incredibly popular as a character prior to even entering Smash Bros. When Sakurai gave the Japanese fanbase a poll, Marth was by far the most wanted character to represent the series, even despite his game well over five years ago by that point, and FE4 and FE5 being far fresher in people's minds.

You could put up a better case that Ike was a "failed mascot" since FE9/FE10 sold poorly relative to the rest of the games in the series (note, I do like Ike).

Marth is popular back in Japan not here, Japan isn't the only place for Fire Emblem now. Ike is not a failed mascot it's only he is not lucky that his first game was at the end cycle of a console and his second game was tore down by reviewers and is considered to be difficult, Ike can represent the series better than Marth could ever do, his design shows that Fire Emblem is a laid back game while Marth design absloutly horrundous, for if it wasn't for Roy I'm pretty sure I would've hated Fire Emblem, characters such as Marth give me the creeps them having such an ambiguous design doesn't work for me, when you see Ike and Roy you know that they represent Swordsmen, in fact I'd rather have Roy over Marth it would actually be a better option, Fire Emblem isn't like Mario it has different protagonist every title such formula shouldn't give the edge to Marth (the first protagonist and all) by that logic Warrior of Light should be the mascot of Final Fantasy because he was the first Main character in the series, right ? think about it...Int Sys, can change Marth as a mascot whenever they want, in fact if the next Fire Emblem had Ike in it and it was as good as Awakening bet your ass that's last nail in Marth's grave.

 

[ChronoBound]

Marth is popular back in Japan not here,

False. Look at how popular Ike and Roy are for starring in only one Smash Bros. game each. Marth has been in TWO Smash Bros. games, and each of those games he was considering among the best fighters from a competitive standpoint, which made him even more popular among the most hardcore of Smash Bros. players.

Anecdotally, I have known a few people who checked out FE13 because they were under the impression that Marth is in it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It's too bad that the people who want the EarthBound/Mother franchise pretty much have to go to Japan. Fire Emblem was fortunate enough to have high demands for being available in the United States, which later lead to Ike being a playable character in Brawl. However, Lucas's inclusion did not help Mother 3 stop being Japan-exclusive.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

False. Look at how popular Ike and Roy are for starring in only one Smash Bros. game each. Marth has been in TWO Smash Bros. games, and each of those games he was considering among the best fighters from a competitive standpoint, which made him even more popular among the most hardcore of Smash Bros. players.

Anecdotally, I have known a few people who checked out FE13 because they were under the impression that Marth is in it.

I know a lot of people who hate Marth too, Marth is nothing special. him being the first Lord is a moot point, and please don't underestimate relevancy, because till now nothing prove the relevancy theory for Fire Emblem character wrong and it's always right until proven otherwise....so for now Relevancy among Fire Emblem characters is a theory that has no opposition.

 

[ChronoBound]

It's too bad that the people who want the EarthBound/Mother franchise pretty much have to go to Japan. Fire Emblem was fortunate enough to have high demands for being available in the United States, which later lead to Ike being a playable character in Brawl. However, Lucas's inclusion did not help Mother 3 stop being Japan-exclusive.

Probably because there were no future releases for the Mother series after Mother 3 (which Itoi has said is the final installment to the series). By the time Brawl was released in the West, the Game Boy Advance was no longer supported by Nintendo, so a localization for Mother 3 (a rather niche RPG) was probably viewed as unviable to them.

I still have hope that someday the entire series will be released together as part of a trilogy pack.

 

[Vintage Creep]

It's too bad that the people who want the EarthBound/Mother franchise pretty much have to go to Japan. Fire Emblem was fortunate enough to have high demands for being available in the United States, which later lead to Ike being a playable character in Brawl. However, Lucas's inclusion did not help Mother 3 stop being Japan-exclusive.

This is really annoying actually. What's stopping Nintendo to put those games at least on the virtual console? Simply stupid.

 

[volbound1700]

It got really bad. Initially when Brawl was first unveiled, over half of the suggestions I saw were for third-party characters. Heck, there was even a significant minority that believed that we would receive more third-party characters than Nintendo newcomers. Sakurai quickly squashed that when he said that there would only be one or two more third-party characters after Snake.

However, even after the third-party character thing wore off things still got pretty bad due to a misinterpretation of Sakurai's various statements. For example, people misinterpreted Sakurai's reasoning for adding Zero Suit Samus (that Smash had few female characters so it was good to add another female newcomer) as him saying/meaning that he would go out of his way to add female newcomers.

There was also a lot of people who liberally applied Sakurai's statement of "there will be cuts". You had people saying that Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Roy, Falco, Mewtwo, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Sheik, Ness, and Jigglypuff would be cut.

There was also basically a lot of character cults running around as well. The Ashley fanbase literally exploded out of nowhere simply due to the "Ashley's song" Dojo update. In general character fanbases were extremely fanboyish and scary, particularly the ones that were among the less likely to get in. It was horrible.

I can't really think of a really fanboyism fanbase this time around. There is enthusiastic support for Ridley, Mewtwo, Mega Man, and K. Rool, but aside from those four its pretty much it (probably Waluigi as well). Little Mac, Isaac, Palutena, and Roy are among the most wanted characters this time around, yet don't really have loud supporters.

However, I am thinking we will probably see a return to craziness once Smash 4 is formally unveiled.

I actually loved that part of Brawl. Hearing all the excitement before the release. This forum was also a little less organized which made it fun. I miss those days. I actually hope it is like that again lol. It is entertaining to hear people go on about characters that have 0.01% chance of being in the game.

 

[ChronoBound]

and please don't underestimate relevancy, because till now nothing prove the relevancy theory for Fire Emblem character wrong and it's always right until proven otherwise....so for now Relevancy among Fire Emblem characters is a theory that has no opposition.

How is Marth not relevant? His last game was released under three years ago, and the latest game talks a lot about the mythos of Marth's games and even mentions Marth himself. In terms of relevancy, Marth is far from irrelevant.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

How is Marth not relevant? His last game was released under three years ago, and the latest game talks a lot about the mythos of Marth's games and even mentions Marth himself. In terms of relevancy, Marth is far from irrelevant.

And so was Ephraim's game, I'm only sure they will bring Marth because they just love shoving him down our throats nothing more, I don't think him being the first lord qualify him being the mascot it's not good enough of a reason, if you think so than you are easily presuaded...but now I just want to bring it down that relevancy matter and we all know when we talk about relevant that mean we are talking about the newest game which is Fire Emblem Awakening which feature Chrom as main character..

 

[volbound1700]

Just a question: what is your favorite game out of all the franchises in Smash so far? I'd say Donkey Kong Country 2 for me.

In order:

Super Mario Brothers 3
Legend of Zelda II Adventures of Link
Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Super Mario Galaxy
Kirby Adventures
Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask
Donkey Kong Country
Legend of Zelda
Super Mario 64

 

[FalKoopa]

@Ike-Sama
You want to know why Chrom gets hate? It's primarily because people are afraid that his inclusion can lead to Ike and/or Roy not returning.

 

[FlareHabanero]

@Ike-Sama
You want to know why Chrom gets hate? It's primarily because people are afraid that his inclusion can lead to Ike and/or Roy not returning.

No, it's because his playstyle isn't anything special. Though I do understand why that's the case considering Chrom is supposed to be a lord that compiles characteristics of other lords like Marth and Ike due to the concept of Fire Emblem Awakening being an "Fire Emblem All-star" game.

 

[volbound1700]

One thing that keeps the chaos down for Smash 4 is the lack of options. Brawl seemed more open about what characters can appear in it. I honestly see very little chance for characters outside the ones being discussed in the poll.

I do disagree once again with comments that Miyamoto has no say on Smash but I won't go into that. It was Miyamoto afterall that confirmed Sonic with his comments.

Fire Emblem is one of the main exception as it is wide open on who could appear in the next Smash. Honestly, we could just end up with Marth and Ike again.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

@Ike-Sama
You want to know why Chrom gets hate? It's primarily because people are afraid that his inclusion can lead to Ike and/or Roy not returning.

I'm willing to embrace it, I would be sad if Ike was taken out but what will ease it is his move-set will definitely stay , for me Ike is more than SSB4. if it's a true cycle that's done by Sakurai than embrace it's better than getting frustrated, Ike not being on SSB4, doesn't mean that I will be a Chrom fan....

No, it's because his playstyle isn't anything special. Though I do understand why that's the case considering Chrom is supposed to be a lord that compiles characteristics of other lords like Marth and Ike due to the concept of Fire Emblem Awakening being an "Fire Emblem All-star" game.

Did you play FIre Emblem Awakening ? if you didn't make sure that Chrom has more personality and playstyle than Marth and Roy do....

 

[ChronoBound]

Fire Emblem is one of the main exception as it is wide open on who could appear in the next Smash. Honestly, we could just end up with Marth and Ike again.

Nah. FE is not really that bad. Its pretty much going to be some combination of Marth, Roy, Ike, and Chrom, or possibly all four of them.

If you want a series that is "chaotic" look at the Mario series. Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Waluigi, and Geno all have a lot of requests, and even Dr. Mario has his share of supporters. Unlike every other series, there is no clear cut choice. And keep in mind as well, there is the possibility that we may not even get a Mario newcomer.