Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[The Black mage]

4chan's responses to what you said about Roy, so, some people half agree with you, other disagree dude. Also it seems he doesn't rank very high on any tier list.

>I don't think Roy ranks high on any list, even on the Serenes ones.

>Roy's utility is being required to finish the map. His rapier is good for killing cavaliers early on though. Not so much for armors due to WTD, though, but he can double them so he still has a chance.

>Yes. Lugh is better than Lilina.

>I remember he's as good as Lot. Roy's not that terrible until after Chapter 12.

>the only real use roy has is his ****ing sword
he can literally solo the last two chapters because of >effective damage and the fact that the SoS can be used to heal himself
even at base stats, he can one round the final boss, because of how bull**** his sword is

>The Sword of Seals has only 20 uses, though. Without Hammerne support, it's going to break midway through a chapter. And without the sword Roy's back to being worthless

Yep, that be true facts right thar.

 

[ChronoBound]

4chan's responses to what you said about Roy, so, some people half agree with you, other disagree dude. Also it seems he doesn't rank very high on any tier list.

FE6 tier list:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/563015-fire-emblem-fuuin-no-tsurugi/47287803

 

[Deleted member]

FE6 tier list:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/563015-fire-emblem-fuuin-no-tsurugi/47287803

>gamefaqs...

Alright.

Well I'll post it there to see what they say.

Anyway, a little more:

>His support is mainly for the cavaliers. Roy's mediocre forever until the end, and is still mediocre then.

>there is some truth in there. roy is so average it hurts and has ****ty promotion time. but even then, there are some pretty goddamn bad units in fe6.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think I really hate Fire Emblem discussion when Roy's involved.

 

[ChronoBound]

>gamefaqs...

Alright.

Well I'll post it there to see what they say.

Why do you hold 4chan up as gods for FE? Half of those guys would probably be arressted if the authorities ever confiscated their computer (due to child/loli porn among other things).

One of your biggest weaknesses as a poster is that you never let anything go, and you always want to have the final say or be seen as right.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Oh....dear.

I sense a storm coming.

 

[FalKoopa]

One of your biggest weaknesses as a poster is that you never let anything go, and you always want to have the final say or be seen as right.

I heavily disagree on this one.

BTW, is there a tier list on Serenes forest?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Normal Mode Tier List, hm? Here's another one which shows him at the middle tier.

According to Serene Forest, at Hard Mode he pretty much falls off to middle tier to most. (Average to above average.)

Middle to me.

 

[Big-Cat]

Why do you hold 4chan up as gods for FE? Half of those guys would probably be arressted if the authorities ever confiscated their computer (due to child/loli porn among other things).

One of your biggest weaknesses as a poster is that you never let anything go, and you always want to have the final say or be seen as right.

Pot, meet Kettle.

 

[Deleted member]

Why do you hold 4chan up as gods for FE? Half of those guys would probably be arressted if the authorities ever confiscated their computer (due to child/loli porn among other things).

One of your biggest weaknesses as a poster is that you never let anything go, and you always want to have the final say or be seen as right.

Because on 4chan everyone is anonymous and not trying to put up a facade to keep up their reputation. Therefore the opinions there tend to be as honest as you could possibly get. Say what you want about the place but to me it's been one of the most useful pools of resources on the net. A life-changing site really. I've found the best advice for improving fitness, art, and many, many other things on that site.

So, if there is ever something I'm not entirely sure about, I'm definitely gonna check with them, because they've honestly never failed me.

Is the place full of trolls, ******* and losers? Yeah, but if you stick around long enough you'll learn to discern the garbage posts from the gems. 4chan is one of the biggest forums on the net, and all sorts of people post on there, not just lonely neckbeards, that makes it a very valuable resource.

Anyway, that aside, really what does it matter what these guys jerk off to when you are discussing tier lists in a strategy game.

That's Ad-Hominem at its finest.

Anyway, I cited them because the hard-core aspect of FE isn't my forte, and I heard a different opinion from a valuable source, and since you refused to post there I had to act as a mediator.

Honestly, I'm done talking about Roy, and so are they, so that's that. All I was saying was that I had heard opposite to what you claimed and from multiple voices and I cited my source. That's all.

For the record, /vg/ is safe for work, so I didn't break any rules by linking to them.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Stats in FE shouldn't matter if we're talking about smashbros. We should be looking at other factors that makes a character good.

...which Roy lacks

 

[Frostwraith]

More reliable FE sites would be Serenes Forest...

And is this another FE discussion? This is gonna be good... *munches popcorn*

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Frost: I think you're late for the show. It's over.

 

[ChronoBound]

Pot, meet Kettle.

I leave plenty of times for a debate, because frankly I just don't have the time for it. My responsibilties for work and family out-prioritize anything here.

Also, here is the last stuff I will post on Roy in FE6:


The biggest reason Roy "sucks" in FE6 is his absurdly late promotion.

Let's assume Roy promotes at Chapter 16 (where he becomes leader of the Etrurian army), and you are able to feasibly get him to 20/20.

Let's compare the "average" endgame 20/20 stats for Roy with Alan, Dieck, and Rutger (who are regarded as being amongst the best units for FE6).

Roy's averages at 20/20-
52
22
25
24
30
17
16

Alan at 20/20-
56
25
21
25
18
17
7

Dieck at 20/20-
60
25
27
22
17
17
8

Rutger(hard mode) at 20/20
59
21
29
30
14
16
10

I was generous enough throw in Hard Mode Rutger since he has even higher bases on that mode (a lot of the characters you recruit that were enemies on Hard Mode in FE6 have higher bases than in Normal mode).

Roy ends up comparing very favorably with the best of the best. The only real area he lags behind is HP. However, his defense stats are the best among them and his luck stat blows the rest of them out of the water, and he competes with them all in terms of strength, speed, and skill.

Let's also compare Roy's bases to a character that is considered one of the best in FE6, Lance:

Hp: Roy has to less HP.
Str: Same strength
Skl: One less skill
Spd: One less speed
Lck: Four more luck
Def: One less defense

As can be seen, Roy's real weakness in FE6 was his absurdly late promotion (three chapters from the end of the game).

As you alluded to a bit in your post, FE6 drew a lot from FE1. I suspect initially on Roy was not intended to promote at all (like Marth in FE1), and it was basically a last minute decision to do so. Roy would come out looking MUCH differently if promoted at Chapter 16.

However, enough about "what if", let's also talk about Roy as he actually is for FE6. Compared to the rest of the units in FE6, on a tier list for the game (which bases characters on their overall performance throughout the entire game, especially for ranked runs), Roy is considered amongst the Top 10 best units in FE6. Keep in mind too that FE6 has over 50 units in it. So amongst all those characters, Roy is considered better than 40 of them.

To further show that Roy is no weakling if he were allowed to promote earlier, I am going to compare how he would do in a fight with who is regarded as the strongest lord in the series, Ike.

Also, let's go one step further and compare Roy at 20/20 with Ike (FE9) at 20/20. Both have their respective holy weapons too (Sword of Seals for Roy, and Ragnell for Ike). However, I removed skills since FE6 does not have the skill system.

Skillless Ike:
52 HP
25 STR
26 SKL
28 SPD
22 DEF
19 LUK

With Ragnell
43 ATK, 28 AS, 141 hit (151 if using FE9 hit mechanics), 75 AVD

Roy:
52.4 HP
21.9 STR
24.5 SKL
23.4 SPD
16.5 DEF
16.4 RES
28.7 LUK
8 CON

With SoS:
40 ATK, 23 AS, 159 HIT (173 if using FE9 hit mechanics), 75 AVD

Normally, Ike doubles and deals 20 damage with each hit, 66% chances (77% true). Roy deals 13 damage with each hit, 84% chances (95% true).

This means a 4HKO for Roy.

Thankfully for Roy, Ike doesn't have the necessary attack power to KO him even after healing off a turn of damage. Meaning Ike needs three turns to KO Roy.

Example situation where everything hits:
Ike attacks, Roy counters. Roy has taken 40 damage, Ike has taken 13.
Roy heals. Roy has taken 10 damage, Ike has taken 13.
Ike attacks. Roy counters. Roy has taken 50 damage, Ike has taken 26.
Roy heals. Roy has taken 20 damage, Ike has taken 26.
Ike attacks, Roy dies.

Clear cut situation if everything hits. However, Ike has a good chance of missing at least once.

Another example:
Ike attacks, Roy counters. Roy has taken 40 damage, Ike has taken 13.
Roy heals. Roy has taken 10 damage, Ike has taken 13.
Ike attacks, misses once. Roy counters. Roy has taken 30 damage, Ike has taken 26.
Roy heals. Roy has taken 0 damage, Ike has taken 26.
Ike attacks, Roy has taken 40 damage, Ike has taken 39.
Roy attacks. Ike dies.

As you can see, if Ike ever misses, his damage falls to something that Roy can actually handle.

It seems very likely to me that Roy wins this battle, as the chance of Ike missing at least once in 6 tries with 77% hit is quite high. No Aether means no instant win chance.

However, Ike would probably win if skills were thrown in the mix, though considering FE6/FE7 does now have a skill system, I tried to put the two on even ground. Though regardless, I wanted to show that how "weak" Roy could hold his own against Ike.

The two main things from this are:
1. The Sword of Seals is a broken as hell weapon.
2. That Roy, if he were allowed to promote earlier, would be much, much better.


The thing is, as said earlier, Roy's main problem comes from his absurdly late promotion, but even at the point where the rest of your army begins promoting, Roy still has lots of utility (and even some after where he is lagging behind).

Roy for one has one of the best support triangles in the game (Roy/Alan/Lance), with the only other one giving it a run for its money being the Dieck/Rutger/Clarine support triangle.

The supports that Roy has with Alan and Lance not only provide good support bonus for Roy as well as two of the best characters in the game, but they also build very quickly (especially in comparison to the Dieck/Rutger/Clarine triangle). This means the utility for it can be realized much quickly for the game than other supports. This support also helps Roy from being a "burden" on your army even in late game, since although he will be unable to kill things, he will still be able to stay alive as well as provide a big boost to Alan and Lance who are among two biggest heavy lifters in your army.

Roy also has a lot of utility in the first eight chapters in the game (where a lot of the enemy units are axe-wielders and bosses are armored/mounted units), which means his rapier will come into play for taking down the bosses for those early chapters.

If you support Roy with Alance and Lance (which you should), Roy can pretty much hold his own (or at the very least stay alive) by the time he promotes, though he definitely won't be a main offensive character or a character you send out to take down armies. Toward the late game, He is great to use as bait if you supported him with Alan/Lance (and especially hide him on a bush or mountain), since due to the supports he will probably dodge most things thrown at him, while pretty much having Alan/Lance finish off those guys when the player's turn appears (since Roy at the very least has weakened them during the defense phase).

 

[IAm2Sarcastic4U]

No more Fire Emblem.

Oh....dear.

I sense a storm coming.

*likes*

Btw Swamp, as a Pokémon Trainer main in Brawl, how good are you with him?

 

[Big-Cat]

I leave plenty of times for a debate, because frankly I just don't have the time for it. My responsibilties for work and family out-prioritize anything here.

Looks like I touched a nerve.

 

[ChronoBound]

Normal Mode Tier List, hm? Here's another one which shows him at the middle tier.

According to Serene Forest, at Hard Mode he pretty much falls off to middle tier to most. (Average to above average.)

Middle to me.

That first tier list you linked to is not for ranked runs, which kind of makes it worthless. For a ranked run on Normal Mode, Roy pretty much ranks within the Top 10 for FE6.

Also, I know Roy ranks around middle for Hard Mode in ranked runs.

 

[FalKoopa]

Btw Swamp, as a Pokémon Trainer main in Brawl, how good are you with him?

I'm guessing that he prefers to use Ivysaur, as implied by his initial avatar.

 

[ChronoBound]

Looks like I touched a nerve.

I was not even agitated in that message. I was just describing something. Looks like Kuma has problems with reading comprehension.

I don't understand why you are so petty all the time. There is a reason why SmashChu and Toise don't respect you.

 

[Deleted member]

There is a reason why SmashChu and Toise don't respect you.

I'm the wrong person to EVER tell that to.

I could give a rats ass about what other people think of me.

They could hate my guts, slander me behind my back, and piss on an image of me on a daily basis and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

To each their own man, if they don't wanna respect me that's fine, they are entitled to dislike me if they so choose. There's no reason for me to lose sleep over something so petty, I'm not gonna grovel and try to earn anyone's respect. I am who I am, and that's what it is, I'm not gonna change who I am to please others, no matter who they are. I live my life for myself, and that's final.

Rant aside, personally, I hold no ill regard to anyone on here, even though I do find the two of them rather condescending and annoying at times. But holding a grudge on someone at an internet forum is about as immature as you can get imo...

 

[Moon Monkey]

Well ALRIGHTY THEN! Has anyone seen this article? http://wiiudaily.com/2013/03/upcoming-wii-u-miiverse-features-revealed/
I would like to point out the final bullet point:

Tournament feature — organize and hold tournaments for games.

It looks like Nintendo is trying to set themselves up to be a gaming hub for fans. Thoughts........................please?

 

[ChronoBound]

I really hope this place gets more mods. What the hell are the mods even up most of the time?

Anyway, there is a reason why I don't respect online game forums. The level of pettiness and perversion makes my skin crawl.

You have childish cliques and factions here, where you basically have alliances between certains users and against other posters. Its really silly and childish.

After Smash 4, I am pretty much done with online game forums altogether, and I could not be happier.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Well ALRIGHTY THEN! Has anyone seen this article? http://wiiudaily.com/2013/03/upcoming-wii-u-miiverse-features-revealed/
I would like to point out the final bullet point:

Tournament feature — organize and hold tournaments for games.

It looks like Nintendo is trying to set themselves up to be a gaming hub for fans. Thoughts........................please?

That sounds great! I might actually spend a great deal of my free time on a Wii U if that happens.

but of course it really doesn't mean a thing if the online is bad and ruins the experience.

 

[Metal Overlord]

this thread is more like high school than high school is for me right now, goddamn

 

[Moon Monkey]

That sounds great! I might actually spend a great deal of my free time on a Wii U if that happens.

but of course it really doesn't mean a thing if the online is bad and ruins the experience.

I agree, but I'm confident Nintendo will provide a good online experience for most of their games. They need too.

I mean they are listening to what fans have to say about the WiiU, hence why they are doing this massive update sometime this month (it's practically April).
And Sakurai has recently stated in a past article that he is trying to improve on the online experience. So these are all good signs.

I am liking these features.

 

[Deleted member]

Well ALRIGHTY THEN! Has anyone seen this article? http://wiiudaily.com/2013/03/upcoming-wii-u-miiverse-features-revealed/
I would like to point out the final bullet point:

Tournament feature — organize and hold tournaments for games.

It looks like Nintendo is trying to set themselves up to be a gaming hub for fans. Thoughts........................please?

Smash 4 confirmed for competitive geared.


....Oh please let this be true.

I really hope this place gets more mods. What the hell are the mods even up most of the time?

Anyway, there is a reason why I don't respect online game forums. The level of pettiness and perversion makes my skin crawl.

You have childish cliques and factions here, where you basically have alliances between certains users and against other posters. Its really silly and childish.

After Smash 4, I am pretty much done with online game forums altogether, and I could not be happier.

Well, no one is really breaking any rules around here bro... But ok.

I do agree that most forums can be very petty. It's actually why 4channers stick to 4chan mostly. However, I've found SWF to be one of the better forums on the net to be honest. The community here is tightly knit and rather chill.

Also, why do you keep announcing your departure?

 

[ChronoBound]

this thread is more like high school than high school is for me right now, goddamn

That is what I said in my previous post. Many of the people here have a teenager mentality (even if they are college age). I said yesterday that I wish we had more intelligent softspoken posters here, instead of more ego-strokers.

 

[lobotheduck21]

I got a Wii U this week, and honestly like miiverse, basically putting tournaments on there is a brilliant idea.

 

[Opossum]

So apparently they're going to show a new Pokemon next week, according to Serebii. This may be the last shot for a Gen VI newcomer, assuming Sakurai wasn't informed beforehand.

 

[ChronoBound]

Also, why do you keep announcing your departure?

So that you and Kuma can mark the day on your calendar when you can discuss Smash BlazBlue with no opposition.

Seriously, its because I may not even be around to keep posting for Smash 4. Smash 4's release is just the absolute latest I will stick around.

I have increasingly more work with each subsequent year, and I have responsibility of taking care of other family members (and friends). Internet browsing for entertainment purposes is something that I am going to have increasingly less time to do.

I mean look at Diddy Kong who says he is going to abandon even Smash 4 this time in just a few months time to take care of his kid.

The fact is that for some of us, we simply are losing interest in video games, as well as having to move on to the "real world".

 

[lobotheduck21]

Lets hope its not another event only non-legendary

I say we put in mew and mewtwo and call the pokemon series good

 

[Croph]

So I just got back and um.

I missed a debate on Roy?

I have no idea what's going on so...

Well ALRIGHTY THEN! Has anyone seen this article? http://wiiudaily.com/2013/03/upcoming-wii-u-miiverse-features-revealed/
I would like to point out the final bullet point:

Tournament feature — organize and hold tournaments for games.

It looks like Nintendo is trying to set themselves up to be a gaming hub for fans. Thoughts........................please?

This looks great. I'm actually stoked for the tournament feature.

 

[Deleted member]

So that you and Kuma can mark the day on your calendar when you can discuss Smash BlazBlue with no opposition.

Seriously, its because I may not even be around to keep posting for Smash 4. Smash 4's release is just the absolute latest I will stick around.

I have increasingly more work with each subsequent year, and I have responsibility of taking care of other family members (and friends). Internet browsing for entertainment purposes is something that I am going to have increasingly less time to do.

I mean look at Diddy Kong who says he is going to abandon even Smash 4 this time in just a few months time to take care of his kid.

The fact is that for some of us, we simply are losing interest in video games, as well as having to move on to the "real world".

That's funny, because my aim is to make my hobbies my work.

Anyway, if you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living?

 

[Gingerbread Man]

So that you and Kuma can mark the day on your calendar when you can discuss Smash BlazBlue with no opposition.

Seriously, its because I may not even be around to keep posting for Smash 4. Smash 4's release is just the absolute latest I will stick around.

I have increasingly more work with each subsequent year, and I have responsibility of taking care of other family members (and friends). Internet browsing for entertainment purposes is something that I am going to have increasingly less time to do.

I mean look at Diddy Kong who says he is going to abandon even Smash 4 this time in just a few months time to take care of his kid.

The fact is that for some of us, we simply are losing interest in video games, as well as having to move on to the "real world".

But the real world is scary and full of harsh realities D:

 

[ChronoBound]

But the real world is scary and full of harsh realities D:

Yeah it is. Appreciate while you are still in high school/college.

However, with adulthood comes a lot of beauty.

 

[Big-Cat]

But the real world is scary and full of harsh realities D:

When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

 

[ChronoBound]

When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

Or as Hades said:
"If freaky aliens hand you lemons. Make freaky alien lemonade."

 

[Metal Overlord]

That is what I said in my previous post. Many of the people here have a teenager mentality (even if they are college age). I said yesterday that I wish we had more intelligent softspoken posters here, instead of more ego-strokers.

a lot of forums are like that unfortunately

forums for the most part are just big circlejerks, and extremely close-minded in that regard

if you dont share certain opinions with them, or haven't been a member there long enough, then you're not going to have the most pleasant experience posting there

 

[lobotheduck21]

No thanks, I like lemons,

maybe this would be a good time to start a mew following

 

[Big-Cat]

No thanks, I like lemons,

maybe this would be a good time to start a mew following

I like lemon meringue pie. You just gotta find a way to turn something given to you into something you like, even if it's just taking it in for what it is.