Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Arcadenik]

Yeah... WarioWare didn't make me want Wario in Smash... Wario Land 3 did. It was my first Wario Land game and I absolutely fell in love with its nonlinear gameplay. I liked his abilities and "status ailment"-based transformations. Since Wario has the moveset from Brawl, let's make it look more "Wario Land" even if they function the same.

His biting move? Let's make it a shaking move. He grabs an opponent and shakes them like in Wario Land: Shake It! Or even turn him into Vampire Wario if the biting move have to stay.

His bike move? Get rid of the bike... make it a tackle move like in Project M or even have him turn into Ball o' String Wario or Flaming Wario

His recovery move? I guess it's okay. *shrugs*

His farting move? He is not Boogerman, give him something else. How about Bouncy Wario?

 

[8-peacock-8]

My version of the Wario moveset:

B: Shake Shake

Forward B: His iconic shoulder bash move

Down B: His earthquake punch from Shake It

Up B: Fine the way it is.

 

[Opossum]

Whoo~~
Happy now. I got my SAT scores back with a combined score of 1990. Made my day...and then I found out that Nintendo's late on putting Harmoknight in the E-Shop. Grr...


Anyway, Wario. I do feel that more Wario Land- inspired moves could work. At the very least, make his pummel the Shake move. Or make it the Neutral B, as suggested above, seeing as they serve the same purpose.

 

[Big-Cat]

When reading Chrono's and Manly's debate, it made me think that if going solely by importance and popularity, doesn't Smash Bros just start to feel like a living "popularity/relevancy" contest? I mean, hey, NOW DIVERSITY is not a good reason enough to support a character because anyone can be made one?

And yet again whenever I hear Lyn's popularity and importance to the series is debatable, I have to do an imaginary double take for her getting more recognition than Eliwood and Hector. It's like I.S hates Eliwood and Hector-fans for not liking Lyn/love the western audience for being fans of Sacaean Buxom Lady.

At this point I get this feeling that importance to the game's plot and such doesn't always merit more inclusion over other.
It's still one of those 5 reguirements that determine if someone should be included. Maybe the character has something more standing out from him/her than just to be "important" to the series in some way or another before moving to other potential aspects. Dark Horse Candidates, anyone?

This is something that can't be stressed enough. If we're looking at Smash Bros.'s cast as OCs and look at them for their playstyle design, picking characters can either be made much harder or much easier. With the case of Lyn, take off the "skin" that is Lyn along with Eliwood, Hector, and Roy and you'll see that her play style is the most distinct out of all four of them. However, the plots would indicate that Roy and Eliwood are the better picks because they are so much more important to their respective games. So what's it gonna be? Do you focus on playstyle and have the confidence that the players will grow to like this "unusual" pick (and it's historically proven that 9/10 they do) or do you go for the safer pick that might be considered bland in comparison to preexisting characters?

IntSys does think Lyn as more important. She gets far more attention than Eliwood or Hector. First Brawl, now DLC. What's next?

Maybe not so much important, but more standout as I said above. I'm going to make a gigantic generalization here, but it seems that aside from minor stat differences, all Lords are cut from the same quilt in regards to their playstyle with the real apparent exception being Ike.

 

[Sharkarat]

I agree with having shake instead of bite and earthquake punch instead wario waft.
personally I like the bike and would keep that as his side B, But would change Shoulder bash to be the dash attack instead of side Smash.
Not that I would complain if he lost his bike.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Wario's moveset was very good. Great character and I think he made it to a high place in the tier list.

 

[Deleted member]

A diuble double post..

**** this. I"m outta here.

Gonna go argue with the Carrfour guys to return my comp. wish me luck...

 

[Big-Cat]

@Oasis
Hey, it IS a generalizatio as there are exceptions. But it is also solid advice coming from experience. You try putting a girl on the pedestal and acting like a doormat and see how far that gets you. You could even put up a faux 'macho' persona but they'll still see right through you.

Women like men not boys.

In other words, be a true alpha male (probably explains my conflicts with my dad; we both have plenty of the traits of an alpha male).

And while women like men, girls like boys and have crappy tastes.

 

[Deleted member]

Its not a war. So far the debate is civil. I don't think he is going to respond back harshly to my rebuttal. Hopefully, its simply dropped, since hopefully everything is cleared up.

Yeah, it's pretty much over. I don't particularly disagree with anything you said. Aslo Kuma pretty much summed up what I wanted to say with his last post.

@Oasis
Hey, it IS a generalizatio as there are exceptions. But it is also solid advice coming from experience. You try putting a girl on the pedestal and acting like a doormat and see how far that gets you. You could even put up a faux 'macho' persona but they'll still see right through you.

Women like men not boys.

They don't want you to treat them in a special way because of their gender, they want you to treat them special because to you they ARE special, and in your eyes they've EARNED it (that last part being the most important). Notice the implications of that?

Anyway, we could have an entire thread discussing this very topic, but I'd rather not considering the effort it takes me to make ONE post with this afvsghgjkgffbvdt touchscreen. So take it or leave it if you like. This is something I KNOW to be true as it's something I've not only experimentedvwith but also discussed with some girls for a course of 3-4 years. It's not up for debate.

 

[peeup]

Man I'm so excited to check out the roster discussion thread and talk about what characters I think will--

Hey, it IS a generalizatio as there are exceptions. But it is also solid advice coming from experience. You try putting a girl on the pedestal and acting like a doormat and see how far that gets you. You could even put up a faux 'macho' persona but they'll still see right through you.

Women like men not boys.

They don't want you to treat them in a special way because of their gender, they want you to treat them special because to you they ARE special, and in your eyes they've EARNED it (that last part being the most important). Notice the implications of that?

Anyway, we could have an entire thread discussing this very topic, but I'd rather not considering the effort it takes me to make ONE post with this afvsghgjkgffbvdt touchscreen. So take it or leave it if you like. This is something I KNOW to be true as it's something I've not only experimentedvwith but also discussed with some girls for a course of 3-4 years. It's not up for debate.

 

[Deleted member]

In other words, be a true alpha male (probably explains my conflicts with my dad; we both have plenty of the traits of an alpha male).

And while women like men, girls like boys and have crappy tastes.

Pretty much. They problems you have with your dad are the same problems I had with my dad. It pretty much means it's time to leave the nest.

As for women liking "alpha-males" I eould digress from labeling it as such as many confuse that with a superficial macho attitude, which might be funny at times, really doesn't dig into your core.

What's most important is that you are confident in yourself. You must be comfortable with who you are as a person and accept all of you. The good and the bad, and be comfortable with all of it. Which means that first of all, you have to get to know yourself, and then learn to LIVE for yourself. For your own wants and desires. What you truly and honestly want. Only by doing that will you become truly confident. Which is ehat women find attractive. Only take note, you aren't bettering youself and becoming confident for the women. You're doing it for yourself. The women are simply a byproduct of it. That's most important, despite what evolutionary psychology would pike ro have you belive. Your whole world does NOT revolve around getting laid. There is more to life than sex.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Wario-talk again? Oh boy. PM Wario is what Sakurai should look straight.

Or more realistically, just include more WL-references...

 

[peeup]

Ok I actually usually endorse off topic conversation but this is like a little ridiculous, even for us. Relationship advice is great, but maybe SWF ain't the best place for it. After all, everybody here is a dedicated SWF user. Women probably ain't our strong suit. Unless you're Diddy

But I have my two cents. Don't worry about girl problems. In a good relationship, you don't have to worry about trying to impress her or trying to be attractive. Hell, man I fart in my girlfriend's face when I can. Is that attractive, macho, or anything? Nah. Am I confident? Nah, not really, I don't have much going for me. But my girlfriend is also my best friend, so literally no issues of trying to impress her or anything ever come up. Because you don't have to impress your best guy friends, do you? A relationship is just a friendship with something extra. Don't fret about confidence or alpha or really anything. If you are, you're kinda doing it wrong. You should be happy, not worried.

So how about that roster discussion eh? Why do people still support Lyn? She ain't relevant anymore, and if you want a female rep then Micaiah is just the better option.

 

[Baskerville]

Keep the Bike and make his Dash Attack an actual... Dash Attack from the games.

 

[N3ON]

I am pretty sure N3ON was being faceticious there, I know I was with Croph.

In that context it was a joke, but to be serious, treating one sex different than the other, even if it's better, just because they are that sex is technically sexist. Though, unsurprisingly, many people wouldn't complain if they were being treated better, but it's still unfair.

Hey, it IS a generalizatio as there are exceptions. But it is also solid advice coming from experience. You try putting a girl on the pedestal and acting like a doormat and see how far that gets you. You could even put up a faux 'macho' persona but they'll still see right through you.

Women like men not boys.

They don't want you to treat them in a special way because of their gender, they want you to treat them special because to you they ARE special, and in your eyes they've EARNED it (that last part being the most important). Notice the implications of that?

The important part is there are exceptions, and it is a generalization. Women don't like being generalized either.

Sure, being the alpha-male might attract the majority of women, or at least more than other types of guys do, but it won't work with every girl/woman. And I'm not saying it's right, because it's not, but some girls do like being put up on a pedestal, being doted upon (to an extent), and being treated special for what they are, not who they are.

I do agree that putting up some fake attitude or personality, whether macho-ness, manly-ness (), or really anything you're not, while it might work in the short term (and not always then even), in the end you'll be seen through. And it can, and usually does, blow up in your face. You being yourself, even if you're no alpha-male, is the best way to go about doing things. Not every woman goes for the alpha-male anyway.

Man I'm so excited to check out the roster discussion thread and talk about what characters I think will--

This joke is getting tiresome.

------------------

Anyway, I agree with what Tri said, I think we're off topic way too much, including myself quite often, so if there are any replies to my reply, I'm not going to address them here. While this topic is an important one to discuss, this isn't the right place for it.

 

[Baskerville]

@N3ON
This gif is better:

 

[8-peacock-8]

Dio Freakin Brando>>>>>>>>>Abe Simpson

 

[N3ON]

@N3ON
This gif is better:

I'd take pretty much anything over Grandpa spinning in circles over and over at this point.

That reaction is closer to us though, I agree. If only people could come into this thread and just leave without saying anything.

 

[Frostwraith]

I love this thread for the sheer absurdity of off-topic stuff.

I'm downloading FE: Awakening demo as I write this. So... guess what this means...

 

[FalKoopa]

Sakurai has a lot of ideas to take from this relations roster discussion thread.

 

[volbound1700]

I pick the first option.

While I don't like Lyn and Toon Zelda, I don't mind Chrom and Starfy and would like to see everyone else.

As for the second roster, I hate the idea of Black Mage, Rayman and Simon ever getting into Smash and I'm also not fond of Pac-Man either. Tails I like, but I just don't think he's a good choice for a third-party. The rest is fine, but too much third-party.

The point of this was to show how useless the first party roster is but people on here will defend it to their last breadth. The 2nd roster would bring far more hype with Bomberman, Megaman, Black Mage/Final Fantasy Rep, etc.

To get Nintendo equivalents of the 1st roster, you have to pull up the original N64 Vets to beat them.

If I would rank video game 15 main video game characters (that are eligible for smash) based on hype all-time:

1. Mario
2. Pikachu - tie
2. Sonic - tie
4. Link
5. Donkey Kong
6. Megaman
7. Pac-Man
8. Snake
9. Kirby
10. Final Fantasy Character (about any of them)
11. Fox
12. Bomberman
13. Rayman
14. Olimar
15. Simon Belmont


As I said before, there are no real characters out there that can match the main roster other than third party characters. This is even true if this wasn't a Nintendo based series so don't give me the third parties will have hype because they are third parties. No it is because a character like Simon Belmont or Megaman has more iconess than Little Mac, Takamaru (whom no one outside of this forum has heard of), Isaac (another character few have heard of), etc.

 

[ChronoBound]

With the case of Lyn, take off the "skin" that is Lyn along with Eliwood, Hector, and Roy and you'll see that her play style is the most distinct out of all four of them. However, the plots would indicate that Roy and Eliwood are the better picks because they are so much more important to their respective games. So what's it gonna be? Do you focus on playstyle and have the confidence that the players will grow to like this "unusual" pick (and it's historically proven that 9/10 they do) or do you go for the safer pick that might be considered bland in comparison to preexisting characters?
.

Its absolutely an opinion that that Lyn would have the play style that would be the most distinct of all four of them. Most people here would admit the same. Also, you could be a very plausible argument that Hector is as important as Eliwood is within FE7.

Like I said before, if I went around talking up ROB during pre-Brawl I would probably be getting the same treatment that Duck Hunt Dog proponents get now.

Roy, Eliwood, and Hector could easily end up very unique and interesting additions, while Lyn could just as easily end up a clone.

That being said, its pretty much just Roy in the running as far as the Elibe lords go for a playable spot.

I think the best hope for a female FE character comes from FE13 (though all three of them have big problems, and have to get through Chrom).

 

[FalKoopa]

@Volbound
This is a Nintendo crossover. I agree that 3rd parties will bring hype, but doesn't mean they don't deserve to be in.

Hype isn't the reason a character should be included. Ever.

I advise you to not set yourself up for disappointment. Expect no more than 4 third parties.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

^ Don't get your hopes too high... I don't mind Roy, but not totally rooting to see him either because I wonder how he can be upped from becoming his own character rather than a clone-to-semiclone (though if the latter is what you want, but I think I'd find it underwhelming.

Like Falkoopa said, Volbound, we're not wanting to play some multimass crossover between companies, that's essentially what you could have other more traditional engines for, like MUGEN. Hype is a tasty cream, not the dough to a delicious cake.

 

[N3ON]

The point of this was to show how useless the first party roster is but people on here will defend it to their last breadth. The 2nd roster would bring far more hype with Bomberman, Megaman, Black Mage/Final Fantasy Rep, etc.

To get Nintendo equivalents of the 1st roster, you have to pull up the original N64 Vets to beat them.

If I would rank video game 15 main video game characters (that are eligible for smash) based on hype all-time:

1. Mario
2. Pikachu - tie
2. Sonic - tie
4. Link
5. Donkey Kong
6. Megaman
7. Pac-Man
8. Snake
9. Kirby
10. Final Fantasy Character (about any of them)
11. Fox
12. Bomberman
13. Rayman
14. Olimar
15. Simon Belmont


As I said before, there are no real characters out there that can match the main roster other than third party characters. This is even true if this wasn't a Nintendo based series so don't give me the third parties will have hype because they are third parties. No it is because a character like Simon Belmont or Megaman has more iconess than Little Mac, Takamaru (whom no one outside of this forum has heard of), Isaac (another character few have heard of), etc.

No one was saying adding more 3rd parties wouldn't build hype, but the majority of fans of Smash, not just casual and occasional players who really don't care too much about who ends up making the roster, recognize it's a primarily-Nintendo series, and recognize Sakurai doesn't want to add very many third-parties, so hypothesizing that half the newcomers will be third-party is fairly pointless. It's a situation that will never happen for SSB4. Sakurai cares more about keeping it primarily Nintendo than building hype at whatever cost.

Also, that list is a bit off, I'd say. Firstly, you're missing Samus. Second, there's no way Pac-Man would be the seventh most hyped character of all time. People only expect him because of Namco, and only a small percent of the people that expect him actually want him. Even if he's more likely than other third-parties doesn't mean he's more wanted. Hell, tons of people want Sora, unlikely as he is. Why's he not on the list? Another thing is people mostly got hyped for Snake because he was new, different, and offered the possibility of more third-parties. If we were looking at things through a blank slate where Snake had never been part of Smash and we weren't aware Kojima ever requested him, he would definitely be below Bomberman and Simon, just Konami-wise. Also, Cloud is Cloud and Japan is Japan. Sure, if he was included there'd be tons of hate, but the hype, especially in Japan, would be off the chart. Higher than Sonic there. He'd definitely be higher than Pac-Man.

Lastly, don't assume just because Mario and Pikachu would be the most-hyped character from their series, they'd be the only hyped character from their series to make the list. Luigi, Bowser, and Mewtwo would also probably make that list.

Either way, you might as well open your list up to non-eligible characters, because we're about as likely to get those as we are to get that many third-parties on the list.

 

[volbound1700]

No one was saying adding more 3rd parties wouldn't build hype, but the majority of fans of Smash, not just casual and occasional players who really don't care too much about who ends up making the roster, recognize it's a primarily-Nintendo series, and recognize Sakurai doesn't want to add very many third-parties, so hypothesizing that half the newcomers will be third-party is fairly pointless. It's a situation that will never happen for SSB4. Sakurai cares more about keeping it primarily Nintendo than building hype at whatever cost.

Also, that list is a bit off, I'd say. Firstly, you're missing Samus. Second, there's no way Pac-Man would be the seventh most hyped character of all time. People only expect him because of Namco, and only a small percent of the people that expect him actually want him. Even if he's more likely than other third-parties doesn't mean he's more wanted. Hell, tons of people want Sora, unlikely as he is. Why's he not on the list? Another thing is people mostly got hyped for Snake because he was new, different, and offered the possibility of more third-parties. If we were looking at things through a blank slate where Snake had never been part of Smash and we weren't aware Kojima ever requested him, he would definitely be below Bomberman and Simon, just Konami-wise. Also, Cloud is Cloud and Japan is Japan. Sure, if he was included there'd be tons of hate, but the hype, especially in Japan, would be off the chart. Higher than Sonic there. He'd definitely be higher than Pac-Man.

Lastly, don't assume just because Mario and Pikachu would be the most-hyped character from their series, they'd be the only hyped character from their series to make the list. Luigi, Bowser, and Mewtwo would also probably make that list.

Either way, you might as well open your list up to non-eligible characters, because we're about as likely to get those as we are to get that many third-parties on the list.

Pac-Man is iconically almost as big as Mario. Look at all the references in pop culture. You don't understand because you were probably born long after his heyday but he was the image of video game throughout the 1980s and is still very often reference in pop-culture.

Samus isn't that big. However, yes she probably could have gone in the teens somewhere on that poll (she is bigger than Olimar and likely Rayman).

Agree on Cloud, he is very high and I put him as general Final Fantasy character, doubtful about Sonic. Sonic is big because of his tv shows as well.

Actually half the list could be Mario characters but I wanted to limit it to one character per series. In fact, for hype perspective, Smash would be better off adding Waluigi, Daisy, Toad, and Bowser Jr over Takamaru, Isaac, Starfy, Palutena.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Actually half the list could be Mario characters but I wanted to limit it to one character per series. In fact, for hype perspective, Smash would be better off adding Waluigi, Daisy, Toad, and Bowser Jr over Takamaru, Isaac, Starfy, Paluatania.

Now all we need is Miyamoto to be the director, **** the gameplay system with his ideas and retitle the game as "Mario and Friends Go Fighting" or something. And we should all act like we never came together, Falcon Punch ever was and Nintendo hadn't ever made a crossover game and a good fighting game since Joy Mecha Fights.

Paluatania also my insides

 

[ChronoBound]

^ Don't get your hopes too high... I don't mind Roy, but not totally rooting to see him either because I wonder how he can be upped from becoming his own character rather than a clone-to-semiclone (though if the latter is what you want, but I think I'd find it underwhelming.

Roy could easily be given his own specials and Final Smash (thus bypassing the Luigi-fied clone thing).

For specials, he could be given Eruption (while Ike's a new special move based off his ability to wield axes), a special based off of the Sword of Seals having the ability to heal, and a special based off of the Sword of Seals having a ranged attack). An unique recovery move could be easy to come up with as well (I have two ideas for this, one could be a "Fire Wheel" where he spins like a wheel with the the blade to the Sword of Seals on fire, or a recovery move where he rises like Blazer but comes down like Aether). As for a final smash,. there have been tons of Brawl hacks done with Roy were they all had different takes on a Final Smash for Roy (all of which involve fire), so that would not be too hard to come up with.

 

[volbound1700]

I am trying to defend the casual Smash fanbase which makes up 80-90% of the people that would buy it and most of them, as I do, would prefer characters like Pac-Man over characters from games that are so obscure no one has ever heard of them.

Now if Nintendo wanted to beef up the Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Donkey Kong, Kirby rosters with big names from those series, that would be better IMO then added a bunch of no-names.

 

[Oasis_S]

I am trying to defend the casual Smash fanbase which makes up 80-90% of the people that would buy it and most of them, as I do, would prefer characters like Pac-Man over characters from games that are so obscure no one has ever heard of them.

Time to start adding Goku and Spider-Man.

 

[FalKoopa]

I am trying to defend the casual Smash fanbase which makes up 80-90% of the people that would buy it and most of them, as I do, would prefer characters like Pac-Man over characters from games that are so obscure no one has ever heard of them.

Please do not make such a generalization of the casual fanbase, especially if you do not have proof.

 

[peeup]

I am trying to defend the casual Smash fanbase which makes up 80-90% of the people that would buy it and most of them, as I do, would prefer characters like Pac-Man over characters from games that are so obscure no one has ever heard of them.

That's why we have other crossover fighters for other fandoms.

 

[volbound1700]

I am not for dumping the little guys or adding 10 3rd parties but my point is that we need at least 2 big-name third parties IMO. A la Megaman and Pac-man. Cloud would be nice as N3ON pointed out and is a big add for the future.

There just isn't much left from the Nintendo roster. Little Mac, Mewtwo (a re-add), Ridley, King K Rool, and a Golden Sun character would be nice. Getting a Xenoblade rep would also be helpful because it seems to be an up and coming series. The rest is pretty much digging from the barrell. Nintendo is better off getting big name 3rd parties or beefing up their big series.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Chrono: Yep. But I don't see much indication or proof what could make him so much easier to give an unique moveset than Elibe Lords... or Lyn since you pointed at her mostly?

So it might be just subjective opinion from your point.

I mean, If you say Roy can be easily given his own specials and Final Smash, then why can't we just say Lyn can be unique and have that playstyle instead of becoming a clone.

 

[Oasis_S]

You have a very poor understanding of things.

I mean, these no-names. If they're COOL-ENOUGH, which is WHY YOU ADD THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE, people are going to get hyped because "WOW DID YOU SEE THAT GUY WITH THE LIGHTSABER THAT SHOOTS LASERS ANDAND HE TURNS INTO A MONSTER OH AND THAT OTHER GUY HE CAME IN ON A MOTORCYCLE AND THEN EXPLODED INTO LITTLE BITS BUT CAME BACK TOGETHER OH MAN IT WAS SO COOL."


Plus Smash is so big it hardly needs help to generate sales.

 

[ChronoBound]

Chrono: Yep. But I don't see much indication or proof what could make him so much easier to give an unique moveset than Elibe Lords... or Lyn since you pointed at her mostly?

So it might be just subjective opinion from your point.

I mean, If you say Roy can be easily given his own specials and Final Smash, then why can't we just say Lyn can be unique and have that playstyle instead of becoming a clone.

I never said Lyn could not be unique. What I said was that it would be possible for her to end up a clone, and that is very highly subjective and an opinion that she would be the "most unique" of the bunch.

 

[FalKoopa]

I am not for dumping the little guys or adding 10 3rd parties but my point is that we need at least 2 big-name third parties IMO. A la Megaman and Pac-man. Cloud would be nice as N3ON pointed out and is a big add for the future.

There just isn't much left from the Nintendo roster. Little Mac, Mewtwo (a re-add), Ridley, King K Rool, and a Golden Sun character would be nice. Getting a Xenoblade rep would also be helpful because it seems to be an up and coming series. The rest is pretty much digging from the barrell. Nintendo is better off getting big name 3rd parties or beefing up their big series.

Just remember, the small series may be nobodies to you and many others, but they mean much more to Nintendo, who is making the game.

Also, NEVER think that Smash needs third parties. They will never have you believe that they need them. It is suicidal to their ego. lol.

 

[N3ON]

Pac-Man is iconically almost as big as Mario. Look at all the references in pop culture. You don't understand because you were probably born long after his heyday but he was the image of video game throughout the 1980s and is still very often reference in pop-culture.

I'm not saying he's not an icon, and I'm not saying he wouldn't bring hype, but just because he used to be huge doesn't mean he's a popular request (not nearly the seventh most popular), and the popularly requested characters tend to be the ones that would bring the most hype. Most third-parties would bring hype just on the virtue of being a third-party, and Pac-Man still has some popularity, but if it weren't for Namco being a part of SSB4, trust me, he would very very rarely come up. Again, just because he's more likely than other third-parties doesn't mean he's more popular, and doesn't mean he'd bring more hype, even if he was a big deal 30 years ago.

Samus isn't that big. However, yes she probably could have gone in the teens somewhere on that poll (she is bigger than Olimar and likely Rayman).

In the west, she's one of the most popular Nintendo characters. She's usually the fourth Nintendo character mentioned after Mario, Link, and Pikachu. In the east, the fourth is generally Kirby. (It should be DK in both places, but whatevah ). Her being below DK and Kirby is understandable, given her series isn't as successful as theirs commercially, but she'd definitely be in the top 10, if not higher.

Agree on Cloud, he is very high and I put him as general Final Fantasy character, doubtful about Sonic. Sonic is big because of his tv shows as well.

I meant just in Japan. Sure Sonic has popularity over there, but Cloud has much more. Not necessarily popularity for Smash, just general popularity.

Actually half the list could be Mario characters but I wanted to limit it to one character per series. In fact, for hype perspective, Smash would be better off adding Waluigi, Daisy, Toad, and Bowser Jr over Takamaru, Isaac, Starfy, Palutena.

Yeah, which is why when people complain about how many Mario characters we have, it's a little silly, considering how much worse it could be. Mario is justified to have, like at least a third of the roster be characters from his series, but luckily Sakurai gives most series a comparatively fair amount, for the most part.

Cloud would be nice as N3ON pointed out and is a big add for the future.

I didn't mean we should get him, I just meant if we did it would cause a lot of hype.

There just isn't much left from the Nintendo roster. Little Mac, Mewtwo (a re-add), Ridley, King K Rool, and a Golden Sun character would be nice. Getting a Xenoblade rep would also be helpful because it seems to be an up and coming series. The rest is pretty much digging from the barrell. Nintendo is better off getting big name 3rd parties or beefing up their big series.

Which is why eventually the series will need to be changed or rebooted, but for SSB4 there are still enough notable Nintendo characters to not warrant any drastic roster overhauls or abundance of third-parties.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Chrono: I guess. But that doesn't mean one can say Roy can also be made unique without also sounding highly subjective and at the end just an opinion too.

We might of course circle back to speak about the popularity or relevancy to the series which I already stated doesn't always merit a character inclusion.

 

[Big-Cat]

^ Don't get your hopes too high... I don't mind Roy, but not totally rooting to see him either because I wonder how he can be upped from becoming his own character rather than a clone-to-semiclone (though if the latter is what you want, but I think I'd find it underwhelming.

Like Falkoopa said, Volbound, we're not wanting to play some multimass crossover between companies, that's essentially what you could have other more traditional engines for, like MUGEN. Hype is a tasty cream, not the dough to a delicious cake.

Another way to look at this is short vs. long term filling. Sure, I might be satisfied that such and such is in the game, but it'll wear off over time. Most of my memories of a game are going to be how fun and deep the game is, not so much who was in it. Like, ever notice that I rarely talk about the decisions behind character choices I wasn't feeling (i.e. ROB), but that I talk about how disappointing the game as a whole was to me.