Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Ember Reaper]

It's irrelevant to teh current topic, but last night I had a dream that ssb4 flopped as a game. When I realized I was dreaming I had a huge sigh of relief it was fake, but then got really scared at the thought of it possibly being bad. that is all.

 

[Reyson]

It's irrelevant to teh current topic, but last night I had a dream that ssb4 flopped as a game. When I realized I was dreaming I had a huge sigh of relief it was fake, but then got really scared at the thought of it possibly being bad. that is all.

Nintendo has rarely made bad games, some games can be a bit dissapointing, but they don't flop. SSB also has quite a dedicated fanbase so it's not as if the sales will be bad, enless they go out of their way to anger their fans by e.g. scrapping a lot of fan-favorite characters. They have a policy regarding quality control, in that they won't be releasing games that don't work properly.

 

[SmashChu]

Rhythm Heaven is one of the most significant series to grow into itself since Brawl. If everyone could get their heads out of the "DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR THAT CHARACTER TO FIGHT" nonsense, then there could be some interesting discussion about how to make a character from that series work, or from any great series that people deem as "not fit for a playable character."

Marshal is the name of the little white fellow that was in Glee Club on Rhythm Heaven DS, and he served as a tutorial guide in Fever. He's pretty eponymous with regards to the Rhythm Heaven series. He'd make a great, fun, quirky character.

RH is very much a character-driven series, it's just not really defined by one particular person. But if I could pick one, it'd be Marshal.

RH is just too great a series to be shunned completely, which I'm sure won't happen. A stage would be awesome, but it still wouldn't do the series justice. I imagine a character who deals more damage when you time his attacks to the rhythm of the song currently playing would be fun and unique.

You mean this guy.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Rhythm Heaven is one of the most significant series to grow into itself since Brawl. If everyone could get their heads out of the "DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR THAT CHARACTER TO FIGHT" nonsense, then there could be some interesting discussion about how to make a character from that series work, or from any great series that people deem as "not fit for a playable character."

Marshal is the name of the little white fellow that was in Glee Club on Rhythm Heaven DS, and he served as a tutorial guide in Fever. He's pretty eponymous with regards to the Rhythm Heaven series. He'd make a great, fun, quirky character.

RH is very much a character-driven series, it's just not really defined by one particular person. But if I could pick one, it'd be Marshal.

RH is just too great a series to be shunned completely, which I'm sure won't happen. A stage would be awesome, but it still wouldn't do the series justice. I imagine a character who deals more damage when you time his attacks to the rhythm of the song currently playing would be fun and unique.

So if the THIS CHARACTER HAS NEVER BEEN SEEN FIGHTING excuse doesn't matter, then the Nintendog will be in re next Smash Bros game.

 

[PastLink]

I think it would be cool to add a Team Rocket member, they could have a Machop, Persian, and Crobat. They are going to probably represent newer generations so it would be cool if it was a newer trainer from the other series. I would like different types to be represented though such as ghost, dark or ground types.

mario- bowser
DK - k rool
kirby - DDD
pkmn - team rocket.

yes, yes i heavily agree. although i think the pokemon should go like this
abra
machoke
and ghastly (shadow ball shadow ball shadow ball)

 

[Reyson]

yes, yes i heavily agree. although i think the pokemon should go like this
abra
machoke
and ghastly (shadow ball shadow ball shadow ball)

Fighting Abra would be pretty difficult considering it only learns Teleport.

 

[PastLink]

Fighting Abra would be pretty difficult considering it only learns Teleport.

well there is a variety of other psychic moves to give it and play around with. since pokemon has HM's and TM's after all.

but, a smaller first evolution psychic type is the main idea there.

 

[Second Power]

The problem with a pokemon antagonist is that there isn't anyone consistent. The only villians to appear in two games are Team Rocket (and even then, not the same members (unless HG/SS changed something, I never got them)) and Ghetsis. (And Team Cypher, but they're out of place since Team Rocket is more known and Ghetsis is more recent) This is versus Gannandorf's 10+ and Bowsers 30+ (at least) apperences. But, look on the brightside. Mewtwo is villian in his first appearence, while he had a heel-face turn in the movie. Mewtwo is probably the closest we can get to a pokemon villian, even if he is merely an anti-hero. At the moment, anyway.

I'd like to throw in my two cents on the Rainfall titles. Nintendo doesn't seem to like them that much. But, Sakurai is the one leading the project and he doesn't always share the opinion of Nintendo (Kirby's Air Ride), so it's a toss up. If he sees Operaton Rainfall as a valient attempt to legally get several games localised that deserved it, he may see one of them deserving a character. But, if he sees it as fans merely whining to get what they want, probably not. Even if it's the latter, he may like one of the titles. I've heard that Xenoblade is one of those 'must-have' Wii titles, and Sakurai is a nintendo employee. But they don't experience high enough levels of popularity that would let them get in otherwise.

 

[Ember Reaper]

Nintendo has rarely made bad games, some games can be a bit dissapointing, but they don't flop. SSB also has quite a dedicated fanbase so it's not as if the sales will be bad, enless they go out of their way to anger their fans by e.g. scrapping a lot of fan-favorite characters. They have a policy regarding quality control, in that they won't be releasing games that don't work properly.

YOU DIDN'T SEE WHAT I SAW.

and yeah I know. They usually make great games and with it being Sakurai's game with a huge team, the chances of it being a bad game are slim to none.

 

[3Bismyname]

at most i can see people saying. eh Brawl and Melee were better. but as to actually being bad. i doubt that would ever happen

 

[wildvine47]

I posted this a while back, but I never really got any feedback on it, so thoughts would be appreciated. This is what I personally think as the "eligible" reps for Smash 4, meaning that they're the ones that I think have a decent to likely chance of making playability. I DO NOT think all of them will be playable, but that only about 45-55 of the characters on this list will be. If anyone OUTSIDE of this list appears however, I will be genuinely surprised.

Under the jump are my actual predictions and reasoning.


[COLLAPSE="Prediction Roster Here"]

Mario Series: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr., Toad*
Zelda Series: Link, Impa* and Zelda, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Ghirahim
Pokemon Series: Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Pokemon Trainer, Lucario*, Zoroark
Kirby Series: Kirby, Metaknight, King Dedede
Metroid Series: Samus/ZSS, Ridley
Starfox Series: Fox, Falco, Wolf
Donkey Kong Series: DK, Diddy, King K. Rool
Mario Spinoffs: Yoshi, Wario
F-Zero: Captain Falcon, Samurai Goroh
Mother: Ness, Lucas
Fire Emblem: Marth, Ike, Roy*, Chrom*
Kid Icarus: Pit, Palutena
"Modern" Series: Olimar, Little Mac, Isaac*, Starfy*, Shulk*, Saki*
Retros: Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, ROB, Takamaru
Third Parties: Snake, Sonic, Megaman, Pac-Man

Characters with an * are characters I'm more iffy on than others, with explanations below.

Toad: Never been too sold on him myself, but his popularity more than anything could give him the boost to get into Smash 4.

Impa: Arguably the most controversial character on my roster, I personally believe that Sheik has a good possibility of becoming Impa, but recent developments, such as the reveal of the Sheik costume in TTT2, have caused me to waver on this front.

Lucario: Lucario, in my opinion, is the most likely character to get dropped from Brawl to Smash 4. With heavy competition from Mewtwo and Zoroark, it would not surprise me if he was dropped. However, I feel the more likely scenario is that all three will make the cut.

Roy and Chrom: Ah, yes. The eternal debate: Roy or Chrom. While it's nice to finally have an official name for Chrom, and he does have the latest FE title to his name, a lack of individuality could do him in if Sakurai decides to only use his basic skillset. Meanwhile, Roy is easily the most popularly requested character to return after Mewtwo himself, which alone could bump him into the playable slot. However, Roy has lack of relevance to deal with, as a simple DLC packet I don't feel is quite enough to make Roy "current", something Chrom has over his competitor. However, as with Mewtwo, Lucario, and Zoroark, I feel that having both is the most likely scenario, as four Fire Emblem characters is by no stretch undeserved, and Marth and Ike are going nowhere fast.

Isaac, Starfy, Saki, and Shulk: This is personally my most difficult call on the roster, as I feel that all four of these characters have a great shot at playability, but at the same time, I don't feel that all four will make it at the same time. When originally making this roster, I was not too convinced as to Saki's chances, hence why he's been left off this roster, but after hearing some more recent arguments towards his inclusion, I've become increasingly convinced that he also has a very good shot at obtaining an ever-elusive character slot. However, Saki has to contend with Isaac, Starfy, and Shulk for the spot as well, with Isaac coming off the popularity of Golden Sun, the relative recentness of Dark Dawn and his AT appearance, Starfy coming from possibly having been planned for Brawl and receiving a decently well performing internationally released game since Brawl, and with Shulk riding off of the popularity and exposure from Project Rainfall and having the benefit of being the most "modern" character in the section. As much as I'd love to see all four characters playable, I simply think that the roster is cramped enough as is, and that one or two will have to be cut, but doing so is ridiculously difficult. This is the one I'd prefer to have the most input on, if people do comment.

Overall, 53 slots, 57 characters total if Zelda/Impa, Samus/ZSS and PT's Pokemon are counted separately. Cutting Toad, Lucario, one of Roy and Chrom, and two of Isaac, Starfy, Shulk and Saki, this could be narrowed down to 49 slots and 53 characters. Both of these seem like doable numbers, and hopefully are decently agreed upon. Again, I'd love input, especially on the Saki/Starfy/Shulk/Isaac issue.[/COLLAPSE]

 

[3Bismyname]

[COLLAPSE="Prediction Roster Here"]

Mario Series: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr., Toad*
Zelda Series: Link, Impa* and Zelda, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Ghirahim
Pokemon Series: Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Pokemon Trainer, Lucario*, Zoroark
Kirby Series: Kirby, Metaknight, King Dedede
Metroid Series: Samus, Ridley
Starfox Series: Fox, Falco, Wolf
Donkey Kong Series: DK, Diddy, King K. Rool
Mario Spinoffs: Yoshi, Wario
F-Zero: Captain Falcon, Samurai Goroh
Mother: Ness, Lucas
Fire Emblem: Marth, Ike, Roy*, Chrom*
Kid Icarus: Pit, Palutena
"Modern" Series: Olimar, Little Mac, Isaac*, Starfy*, Shulk*, Saki*
Retros: Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, ROB, Takamaru

Characters with an * are characters I'm more iffy on than others, with explanations below.

Toad: Never been too sold on him myself, but his popularity more than anything could give him the boost to get into Smash 4.

Impa: Arguably the most controversial character on my roster, I personally believe that Sheik has a good possibility of becoming Impa, but recent developments, such as the reveal of the Sheik costume in TTT2, have caused me to waver on this front.

Lucario: Lucario, in my opinion, is the most likely character to get dropped from Brawl to Smash 4. With heavy competition from Mewtwo and Zoroark, it would not surprise me if he was dropped. However, I feel the more likely scenario is that all three will make the cut.

Roy and Chrom: Ah, yes. The eternal debate: Roy or Chrom. While it's nice to finally have an official name for Chrom, and he does have the latest FE title to his name, a lack of individuality could do him in if Sakurai decides to only use his basic skillset. Meanwhile, Roy is easily the most popularly requested character to return after Mewtwo himself, which alone could bump him into the playable slot. However, Roy has lack of relevance to deal with, as a simple DLC packet I don't feel is quite enough to make Roy "current", something Chrom has over his competitor. However, as with Mewtwo, Lucario, and Zoroark, I feel that having both is the most likely scenario, as four Fire Emblem characters is by no stretch undeserved, and Marth and Ike are going nowhere fast.

Isaac, Starfy, Saki, and Shulk: This is personally my most difficult call on the roster, as I feel that all four of these characters have a great shot at playability, but at the same time, I don't feel that all four will make it at the same time. When originally making this roster, I was not too convinced as to Saki's chances, hence why he's been left off this roster, but after hearing some more recent arguments towards his inclusion, I've become increasingly convinced that he also has a very good shot at obtaining an ever-elusive character slot. However, Saki has to contend with Isaac, Starfy, and Shulk for the spot as well, with Isaac coming off the popularity of Golden Sun, the relative recentness of Dark Dawn and his AT appearance, Starfy coming from possibly having been planned for Brawl and receiving a decently well performing internationally released game since Brawl, and with Shulk riding off of the popularity and exposure from Project Rainfall and having the benefit of being the most "modern" character in the section. As much as I'd love to see all four characters playable, I simply think that the roster is cramped enough as is, and that one or two will have to be cut, but doing so is ridiculously difficult. This is the one I'd prefer to have the most input on, if people do comment.[/COLLAPSE]

its a fairly conservative roster. this is more of a personal thing but i see the Mario series getting Toad or Bowser Jr but not both, i also don't see Ghirahim making the cut either just cause he is flavor of the month villain.and yeah between Saki, Shulk, Starfy and Isaac it is a tough call. personally i just think 2 out of the 4 of them will make it but thats just me. and to me i'd actually say Matthew instead of Isaac just cause apparently Dark Dawn supposed to be like the main series while the other two were just prequels (i swear i heard that somewhere but correct me if im wrong) so i feel if Sakurai went to Camelot they would push more for Matthew. but i do still think its really cluttered and it does need to be cut down a little. other than that im overall happy with this roster.

 

[Opossum]

Hmm...personally, there's not too much I disagree with. But, there are some things.

1. Size. I do think you may want to trim it just a bit. Just my opinion.

2. Impa. Most of the regulars here have explained it again and again. Plus, you did say you can waver on this, so I say keep Sheik as Sheik.


Now, since you wanted input on the Saki/Starfy/Isaac/Shulk thing, I'll weigh in. Now, barring retros, 3rd parties, and "Hardware" characters as I like to call them, very few spots have been given to miscellaneous series in the past. Fire Emblem got two in Melee (well, one plus a last minute clone, so take that as you will). Brawl added the WarioWare/WarioLand series, which was really almost a Mario subset. Additionally, it added Olimar for Pikmin. Miscellaneous smaller series have been pretty limited, even if I'm not really one for patterns. On the other hand, very few characters remain to be added that are important to established series, so there may be a higher demand for smaller series. I doubt they'll go overboard, though.

Now, Little Mac would also be included with the smaller series, seeing as the series was revived. That being said, he's a good bet, so keep him. Not many would argue that.

Here's where it may get controversial.

First off, lately, I, too, have come to realize that Saki has pretty great chances. Sakurai loves rail shooters, it got an international release, and Sakurai mentioned that he'd fit right in. Keep Saki and Mac so far.

Onto Starfy. Now, he's an underdog, but I personally think he's an underrated choice. A five game series that finally got a release internationally to favorable reviews with a charming hero. Not to mention that there are hints that he may have been considered for Brawl, apparently. That being said, I do not think Sakurai hates Starfy, as some would like to believe. The only problem is the second party status. However, given the fact that he's made cameos in other series, I don't think TOSE would be a problem to deal with. I say keep him, Saki, and Mac.

With Isaac, it's a tough call. He has mediocre to good Western popularity. Japan is apparently indifferent. Not to mention, Sakurai said that the only smaller series that showed any sort of promise that debuted after Melee were Pikmin and Animal Crossing. Now, AC bit the dust for other reasons, and Olimar was added. Although this technically applies to Starfy as well, he got an international release, so that could easily sway Sakurai. Golden Sun saw the mildly unsuccessful Dark Dawn. This didn't even feature Isaac prominently, so I doubt it'd change Sakurai's mind. I'm on the fence with him.

With Shulk, and I'll probably get shot by some from this, but I don't find Shulk too likely. He's from a one game recent series. Sure, there's Operation Rainfall, but I honestly think that people overstate its importance. In the long run, it was more of "Oh, they actually want us to localize this? Huh. Fine, send it over." If only Pikmin and Animal Crossing were "deserving" for series after Melee, why would Xenoblade be?


In all, I say definitely keep Saki, Mac, and Starfy. Isaac is your call. I personally say drop Shulk.




Hopefully this helped.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I don't see how appearing in one game would hurt the odds of Shulk appearing. The Xenoblade franchise (loosly speaking) is still new, so don't expect 40 sequels within a month.

 

[SmasherMaster]

I think that an Animal Crossing character is likely. With four games, it has more than most newer series. It had a stage in Brawl, where no other post-Melee series (except for Pikmin) didn't have one. Also, Sakurai stated that that they only two series that showed any sort of promise that debuted after Melee were Pikmin and Animal Crossing.

 

[Youngster Joey]

i want skull kid. i doubt its likely but are there any sites besides this one where i can find announcements on the next game?

 

[PastLink]

The problem with a pokemon antagonist is that there isn't anyone consistent. The only villians to appear in two games are Team Rocket (and even then, not the same members (unless HG/SS changed something, I never got them)) and Ghetsis. (And Team Cypher, but they're out of place since Team Rocket is more known and Ghetsis is more recent) This is versus Gannandorf's 10+ and Bowsers 30+ (at least) apperences. But, look on the brightside. Mewtwo is villian in his first appearence, while he had a heel-face turn in the movie. Mewtwo is probably the closest we can get to a pokemon villian, even if he is merely an anti-hero. At the moment, anyway.

dang you're right.... well, i'm not sure i want mewtwo to replace lucario like lucario did to him, i think the should just rework him a bit if they throw him back in. i mean hey, they did it for gannon and C. falcon

 

[Deleted member]

Alright, I said I would exaluate the series I listed on a later date, so now I will start to do so.

Part 1: The Assist Trophy franchises

-Animal Crossing is kind of a strange issue. It was seen as worthy of a series by Sakurai to warrant a character, but he also said that characters such as the Villagers should not be playable if it is unfeasible for them to fight.
However, he had also said he could've made Animal Crossing Boy (as I'm calling him due to his Trophy) into a fighter by using tools such as the bug net and the shovel, though he felt he had to prioritize other characters more suited for fighting.
Now, there isn't nearly as many characters that would be considered "priority" compared to Brawl, and on that note, there is often debate on who is "priority" and who isn't throughout the fanbase.
In summation, it is possible that Sakurai could revisit this idea of Animal Crossing Boy, as we know he tends to revisit old ideas he couldn't quite make work before. I personally give AC Boy a 50/50, as it all depends on whether Sakurai wants to include him or not.

-I don't see Excitebots getting a character due to the "characters" being vehicles. However, Excitebike could theoretically work better by having a character that uses "Bike Fu" for a fighting style. Problem is, Sakurai previously denied the Excitebiker for Melee in favor of the Ice Climbers because "ramps would need to be installed in every stage".
Now, this implies that the Excitebiker would logicaly be unable to jump, and thus would need ramps to jump. This is coming from the man that made Wheelies, which are able to jump just fine, and they are one-wheeled bike monsters.
What it seems like to me is that he doesn't really think much of Excitebiker, as he had to make up an excuse to show why the Ice Climbers were better suited.

So I don't expect a character from the Excite franchise, Excitebiker or otherwise.

-Punch-Out!! is a franchise that debuted prior to 2001, so Sakurai's statement about worthy series doesn't apply to it. That being said, the fact that the series was revived on the Wii is a good sign for Little Mac.
There are two potential obstacles for ol' Mac, however.

1. His series is not that popular within Japan. Sure, Mac gets a big following in the West, but from what research by ChronoBound and shortiecanbrawl shows, Mac is not that big in Japan.
However, this may not mean much to Sakurai, as he has included characters that have more of a following in the West than the East, namely Pit and Sonic (he stated that their fan support mostly came from the West), so it's very possible that the same can be done for Little Mac. Also, Sakurai considers him a legend, as shown on his Assist Trophy update.

2. He may be considered limited. This is due to being a traditional boxer, and his fighthing consisting of jabs, hooks, uppercuts, and stronger versions of those (aside from "Hulking out" into Giga Mac, but that's Final Smash material).
Although, the same could be said for Marth, who really didn't have much to offer, and yet he works just fine with a whole moveset being different types of swings and strikes of his sword.

I feel Little Mac is very likely to be added. There are times I have my doubts, but I have to remember Pit and Marth counter the issues.

-Starfy is another interesting case, only due to speculation in regards to him. He may have been planned for Brawl at some point, as the Trophy of his sister, Starly (Stapy in Brawl), appears within the Fighter Related category of Trophies, something that no Custom Robo or Animal Crossing Trophy does despite also having Assists. There is also a missing series within Brawl's music files that could very well be The Legendary Starfy/Densetsu no Stafy.
Despite this, Sakurai doesn't list Starfy's series as a series he felt deserving of a character, unlike Animal Crossing and Pikmin. Though the fact that the series is no longer Japan only as of the latest game could possibly change his mind, as that may be a major reason he was "unworthy", due to Sakurai's stance on series exclusive to Japan.

However, considering Starfy's...unique body shape, he may end up being considered unfeasible due to having a worse range of motion than even Jigglypuff, which would be a hassle when items or grabbing is involved. This may just be my interpretation, as I have yet to play a Starfy game and am just going by his range of movement in his arms in Brawl.

So Starfy, I can see being included, though at the same time, I also can see him not being included. I'm bording on 60/40 here in favor.

-Sin and Punishment is another series that debuted prior to 2001, so like Little Mac, Sakurai's statement doesn't apply to Saki.
Sakurai's already shown great interest in Saki, claiming that he "rivals just about any main character", and "has absolutely no problem fitting in" on top of saying that he had many requests and "is pretty cool".
This is where you'd expect me to say he is a shoo-in, right? Not quite.
He has one thing standing in his way: his son Isa.
Sin and Punishment: Star Successor did end up bringing the series into spotlight once again (though did not bring it outside Japan, as the original game became available through Virtual Console outside Japan prior to it), but the main character of the game is Saki's son Isa. Saki does manage to make a cameo in his Ruffian form in a flashback, though.
Saki and Isa have similar capabilities (I need to draw comparisons between the two other than Isa's jetpack), so Sakurai may like Isa as well and would go with him instead.

So Saki is 50/50 to me. I feel Sin & Punishment is going to get a character, but whether it will be Saki or Isa has yet to be clear.

-I have already stated why I don't find a Golden Sun character likely, especially not Isaac.
So here's just a recap.
If the first two games did not impress Sakurai enough for a character, Dark Dawn is unlikely to change his mind. And even if it did, Matthew would be the character included in Smash, not Isaac.

-Jam with the Band is unlikely to get a character. This one doesn't really need much of an explanation. Sorry to those who support Barbara, she has little chance.

-Nintendogs is another interesting case, due to being listed along with Animal Crossing in example of characters not to expect.
Unlike Animal Crossing however, I believe that this will stay without a character. The reason is, while you can make a cartoonish human that uses tools into a fighter (like Sakurai considered), there is no logic whatsover in making a virtual realistic puppy into a fighter. PETA would have a field day with that....
+ Cats will do nothing to change this, as a kitten wouldn't be logical either. And it doesn't mean Sakurai is going to add a Nintencat version of his cat as a character, so don't even think about it.

Part 2 comes later.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I've been making a comprehensive list of Nintendo games since Brawl that do not have a character to represent the series that are NOT Japan exclusive (save for one honorable mention) due to Sakurai's stance on Japan exclusives. Feel free to add to the list, as there may be ones I have forgotten.

Series represented with an Assist Trophy:

-Animal Crossing: City Folk
-Animal Crossing: New Leaf

-Excitebots: Trick Racing (Part of the Excite franchise along with Excitebike and Excitetrucks)
-Excitebike: World Rally

-Punch-Out!! (Wii)

-The Legendary Starfy

-Sin and Punishment: Star Successor

-Golden Sun: Dark Dawn

-Jam with the Band

-Nintendogs + Cats

Series released prior to Brawl that don't have Assists:

-Rhythm Heaven
-Rhythm Heaven Fever

-Wii Music
-Wii Sports Resort
-Wii Fit Plus
-Wii Chess
-Wii Party
-Wii Play: Motion
-Wii Fit U

-Glory of Heracles

-Pilotwings Resort

-Brain Age: Concentration Training

-Another Code: R – A Journey into Lost Memories (Trace Memory)

New series that debuted after Brawl:

-Disaster: Day of Crisis

-Xenoblade Chronicles

-The Last Story

-Pandora's Tower

-FlingSmash

-Fossil Fighters
-Fossil Fighters Champions

-Steel Diver

-The Wonderful 101

-Dillon's Rolling Western
-Dillon's Rolling Western 2: The Last Ranger (implied; not actually confirmed)

-Pushmo
-Crashmo

-Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword

-Nintendo Land (Features attractions for Animal Crossing, Murasame Castle, and Balloon Fight, series without playable characters)

-HONORABLE MENTION: Captain Rainbow (Another series like Smash that crossed over various Nintendo series newer and older.)

Other:

-Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games
-Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 London Games

The reason these two are listed are merely to mention that it shouldn't be surprising if Sonic gets another character, due to there being a full series revolving around the Mario franchise and the Sonic franchise crossing over.

As for the others, I will evalute my personal thoughts and beliefs in regards to how likely a character from each series is at a later time.

There's Zangeki no Reginleiv, a 2nd Paerty Nintendo game.

 

[Deleted member]

Part 2: Non-Assist Trophy franchises prior to Brawl

-I've already talked about Rhythm Heaven.

Spoiler

In the case for Marshal, yes, he seems to be like the Wario (WarioWare) of Rhythm Heaven Fever, but by research, I only see Fever as the one he was in. There were other characters that looked like him, yes, but he himself was only in Fever.
If Rhythm Heaven were to get a character, I would bet more on Karate Joe, as he and his game were featured in all of the Rhythm Heaven titles so far and he's clearly fighter material, being a martial artist. That being said, I don't think Rhythm Heaven is going to get a character, and it's not for the "nonsense" about the characters being unable to fight (as again, Karate Joe). It's the fact that there's really no one to add that makes absolute sense from a logical standpoint.
I'm not saying the series hasn't done enough to warrant a character, but I'm saying characters shouldn't be added willy-nilly just to give such and such a series a character.

I doubt the series will get a character.

-The Wii series is hard to predict in terms of character. I beleive Sakurai said something in regards to Miis being "too casual" for Smash, though I don't remember.

Yes, the series is great on sales, sarpassing the Zelda series, and Miis themselves can easily work well in a fighter due to their versatility.

Despite this, I'm having a hard time seeing Miis being included as playable characters.

-Glory of Heracles is typically an unknown franchise that just recently got released outside Japan. It also is unaffected by Sakurai's statement about Animal Crossing and Pikmin, but I highly doubt this series will get a character.
And even if it did, would it be Heracles himself, the main protagonist of the 1st game and the 4th (and helper character in the other 4 games)? Or would it be the unnamed player character of the latest game of the series? My money would be on Heracles if a character was to be added.

-Pilotwings is also a typically unknown franchise, though it had been brought back into spotlight on the 3DS. Sadly, Miis took over the game, with none of the characters from either of the previous two games (except a cameo by Meca Hawk from Pilotwings 64) having any sort of role.
If a character was to be included, I would bet on Lark from 64, as no one remembers the unnnamed player character from the original game, and Lark doubles as a reference to Nester, being designed with him in mind. I highly doubt the series would get a character, though.

-Brain Age has no character that would make sense in a fighting game. Neither Dr. Lobe or Prof. Kawashima make any sense.

-Trace Memory's sequel was never released in America (thus it retains it's European title of Another Code), and even if it was, Ashley is a regular human with little capabilities that she could logically pull off in a fighting game like Smash.

Part 3 later tonight.

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There's Zangeki no Reginleiv, a 2nd Paerty Nintendo game.

Japan exclusive. Please read the first paragraph of the quote.

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Part 3: New series that debuted after Brawl

-Disaster: Day of Crisis doesn't really offer much for a playable fighter, being just a regular human admist natrual disasters. It would offer one Hell of a stage, though.

-The three titles of Operation Rainfall (Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower) all have their merits, and the operation was a success (though Pandora's Tower had not been released in America yet). They all offer a character, Shulk for Xenoblade, Zael for The Last Story, and Aeron for Pandora's Tower, though out of the three, Shulk seems to be the most popular. However, it is hard to determine how likely the set of three are, and the fact they are from standalone titles may harm them.

I cannot determine the likelihood of either of the three at this point in time.

-FlingSmash won't get a character. That's all I'm going to say.

-I've covered Fossil Fighters already.

Spoiler

This is also why I don't think Fossil Fighters will get a character. From a logical standpoint, there's little to work with that makes absolute sense.
There is the Pokemon Trainer route, and go with the original Fossil Fighter (named Hunter in the manga), but that would just rip off Pokemon Trainer's gimmick but using Vivosaurs. Speaking of the Vivosaurs, we can't even go the Pikachu route and add the mascot, T-Rex, as the it's a frigging 50 ft beast of destruction (well, 42 ft, but still). At least Ridley has been small before and changes size practically every game he's in.
And even the starting Vivosaur of the original game, Spinax, is rather large (29 ft).
Pretty much, all the notable Vivosaurs are either large, not the right build for Smash, or both. Save for maybe the legendary chicken Vivosaurs which are around Lucario's size. Though a random chicken from a series that is about dinosaur like creatures would seem very strange.

I was thinking about it a bit, though, and I've come up with a way (though unlikely as it is) that a character could work. It would be the Fossil Fighter (Hunter), though he would be fighting, unlike Pokemon Trainer (as he carries his tool for digging out fossils that he can use to hit people), but his Specials involve him summoning various Vivosaurs to attack, specifically ones he used from the manga like Spinax, multiple V-Raptors, Coatle (for recovery), Tricera, etc. with Igno as a Final Smash.
This would never happen, but it'd be one way to have a character work.

-Steel Diver, also very unlikely to get a character. I shouldn't have to explain.

-The Wonderful 101, it's too early to tell since the game is not out yet, but from what I see, I don't see a character likely, as in order to pull off skills, you need hundreds of citizens following you, and unlike Pikmin, I can't see a system involving less people being made.

-Of the three 3DSWare titles (Dillon's Rolling Western, Pushmo, Sakura Samurai), I only see Dillon as a potential candidate. The Sakura Samurai has a similar samurai to deal with who has much better chances; Takamaru. Mallo doesn't really pull of a vibe that he could work in Smash. Dillon, however, has plenty of skills to work with and is not similar to other characters (unless you want to draw a comparison to Sonic because both can spin, but that would be stupid, so don't do it).
That being said, it can't easily be determined if Rolling Western would be "worthy" to Sakurai, though I feel that Dillon would at least be considered.

-Nintendo Land, won't really do much for characters, considering it doesn't have any characters to offer except the Miis, but it does put Takamaru in more spotlight with the Murasame Castle inspired attraction (called Takamaru's Ninja Castle), giving more incentive to include him.
A stage from this game may be featured, though.

-Despite Captain Rainbow being Japan-exclusive and financially bombing, he does fit the vibe of Smash, especially considering like Smash, his game brought various characters from Nintendo's franchises together. That alone may make Sakurai consider him, though it's not good chances.



And that's it. What, you thought I was going to talk about the two Mario & Sonic's after Brawl? I already made my statement there; that a 2nd Sonic character may not be so unimaginable.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Isn't Glory of Hercules a 2nd Part title?

 

[Deleted member]

*facepalm*

Does it REALLY matter if the titles are 2nd Party or not? The point is, they are Nintendo franchises. If being 2nd Party mattered, I wouldn't even be talking about it nor Starfy nor Golden Sun, etc.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Golden, how about you an observation of third party characters, retro characters, and additional to existing franchises like Metroid or Kid Icarus? I'm curious about your opinion on those subjects.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Please do continue, these are rather interesting thoughts that you came up with. A good way to help me narrow down my choices.

 

[Deleted member]

Golden, how about you an observation of third party characters, retro characters, and additional to existing franchises like Metroid or Kid Icarus? I'm curious about your opinion on those subjects.

Those end up being subjective beliefs, so I'm hesitant on doing those.
At least with the unrepresented series, it's easy to discuss how a series may be "worthy" or a character "feasible" to Sakurai.
But when it comes to say, whether or not Mario will get a character, and if so, will it be Toad, Waluigi, Bowser Jr., etc., that delves into personal beliefs that not everyone shares.

Though, third parties are easy to pinpoint. Any new ones that aren't from Namco, or from the series already in Brawl aren't that likely.
Mega Man stands as a sole exception, due to his overall support and demand. However, said demand is not at pre-Brawl Sonic level, which barely squeaked Sonic by. It can go either way, though Capcom is not an issue like people stupidly tend to think, as they have stated that they have no problem with Mega Man in Smash, but it's Sakurai's decision.

As for Namco itself, I have to say that a Tales character stands the most chance. There are two main developers of Smash 4, Sakurai and Yoshi-to Higuchi, the Tales director. He has also stated that he would love to see a Tales character in the game though final decision falls on Sakurai. I can easily see him attempt to persuade Sakurai, though.
As for the character itself, it would be Lloyd. Symphonia is a notable Tales game on a Nintendo system, recieved a direct sequel for the Wii (which Lloyd is a major character in as well), and Lloyd himself is iconic, even being in Soulcalibur Legends for the Wii as a guest.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Which reminds me, I hope to god none of the Tales characters are picked. I love the Tales series a lot actually, but in Super Smash Bros it would feel like a waste of a third party slot for an unenthusiastic character. In my opinion a third party character should stand out from the Nintendo characters in their own ways, like Snake being more grim and Sonic sporting more attitude.

Personally I'm hoping more for someone out of Tekken (Heihachi for example) or simply Pac-man, at least from the Namco side of things.

 

[---]

Meh, unless Sakurai lowers his standards for admission, I'm thankfully not seeing any Namco character making it in at the moment. This whole Namco Bandai thing has been way overblown (and not just about characters) if you ask me.

 

[Reyson]

Meh, unless Sakurai lowers his standards for admission, I'm thankfully not seeing any Namco character making it in at the moment. This whole Namco Bandai thing has been way overblown (and not just about characters) if you ask me.

Standards have to be lowered with each addition of characters enless they decide to open the floodgates and let a lot of 3rd party characters in. There aren't enough strong new Nintendo franchises between the Smash games to add to the roster.
You also have to consider that having characters in Smash games can really boost the sales for those franchises and make them more important(see Kid Icarus/Fire Emblem).

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Please, please no Namco characters. If it ain't Pac-Man, it doesn't please me.

The discussion on third party characters is one that would take a good deal of energy and candor, but simply put third parties are something that Sakurai consistently tries to keep expectations low on, if for no other reason than just to keep people from getting too excited about a bunch of third parties.

With that being said: Layton. I'm not commenting on likelihood or anything else, but if I had to pick one out of preference, it'd be him. Perfect fit for a third party if you ask me.

In reference to Namco-Bandai's role in development, I think it's probably minimalish, as Tri-Hy said.

 

[Deleted member]

At this point, I really don't care about 3rd Parties much. Just as long as we can have Dr. Eggman teaming up with Nintendo's greatest villains.

(as in, Dr. Eggman for Smash 4. Don't care what naysayers say)

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I'm not a naysayer. Ol' Robotnik is my second choice for a Sonic rep. But I'd also be cool with him being an NPC boss.

He could command an enormous fleet of somewhat menacing robot warships that have "Egg" in their names if the latter happened.

 

[Deleted member]

Who's to say that he couldn't do that even as a player character? I mean, Bowser commanded his Koopa Troop in the SSE.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Aaaaaabsolutely, at least in the story mode. That's mandatory regardless of whether he's playable or a NPC.

I think the idea is a bit too grandiose for anything other than an FS when it comes to battle mechanics, though.

As long as he keeps his current VA, I'm satisfied. Dat Pokemon announcer.

 

[---]

Standards have to be lowered with each addition of characters enless they decide to open the floodgates and let a lot of 3rd party characters in. There aren't enough strong new Nintendo franchises between the Smash games to add to the roster.You also have to consider that having characters in Smash games can really boost the sales for those franchises and make them more important(see Kid Icarus/Fire Emblem).

??? I can't even tell what you're talking about here, I'm not even sure if you do yourself.

I'll come back to this later and give a better explanation once my headache clears up if anyone is seeking one because I'd rather not start explaining the character selection process again.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Even better idea.

We have Dr. Eggman AND Dr. Wily up to mischievous mischief. Which means that Mega Man and Sonic will have to join forces to defeat the doctors and save the world once again because Mega Man always strives FOR EVERLASTING PEACE! and Sonic is there because he loves watching Eggman boil like a hard boiled egg.

By the way, Mega Man and Sonic being in the next Super Smash Bros game would be the biggest ironic foreshadowing ever. The two characters teaming up in a comic book coming in 2013, then a few months later Sonic and Mega Man are confirmed to be in the same game together fighting to the death.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Mario & Sonic & Megaman at the 2014 Sochi Olympic Winter Games?

 

[Deleted member]

If Eggman is in the game, this is obviously how he's going to fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD5kHQQEiMk

 

[FlareHabanero]

Mario & Sonic & Megaman at the 2014 Sochi Olympic Winter Games?

Wasting a crossover on minigame drivel set in the Olympics? Ill pass on that one.

 

[JPW]

Japan exclusive. Please read the first paragraph of the quote.



-Despite Captain Rainbow being Japan-exclusive and financially bombing, he does fit the vibe of Smash, especially considering like Smash, his game brought various characters from Nintendo's franchises together. That alone may make Sakurai consider him, though it's not good chances.

Before Melee. Fire Emblem was only Japan Exclusive and look what happened.

 

[Reyson]

??? I can't even tell what you're talking about here, I'm not even sure if you do yourself.

I'll come back to this later and give a better explanation once my headache clears up if anyone is seeking one because I'd rather not start explaining the character selection process again.

Why would I not know what I said myself?

I'll explain it further...

With every new smash game, less popular characters make it into the the roster because there simply aren't enough big Nintendo characters to keep a roster of only "all-stars". SSB had the lead characters of the biggest Nintendo franchises, Melee added a lot of popular side characters of those franchises and added a few new ones from smaller franchises and Brawl brought some more smaller franchises and additional, less popular side characters from popular franchises.
They lower the standards of which character is famous enough to be in the game because the most popular Nintendo characters are already in the game. The most famous characters (on nintendo consoles) that they don't have yet are 3rd party ones.

The rest of what I said was more or less that they can use Smash to help launch a franchise or make it more popular like they did with Fire Emblem or Kid Icarus.


Anything left unclear?