Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Metal Overlord]

Hopefully Medusa'll at least be a boss

 

[3Bismyname]

yeah i don't see Medusa as being quite character worthy. but definately would be a neat boss. Palutena is my number one choice for a Kid Icarus character.

 

[Gene]

"Super Bash Sisters". Its like Palutena's asking to be in Smash(not really, but I can pretend). Also I hope Pit has a codec taunt in smash 4.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Hopefully Medusa'll at least be a boss

It'll probably be Hades. But at least Medusa will be a trophy.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Ideally, we'd have both Medusa and Hades as a boss. I'd like to think that the scenario writers could come up with a way to have both involved.

Actually, I'd kinda like to see Medusa as an anti-hero NPC who helps you in your boss fight against Hades, like

Spoiler

when she uppercuts Hades in da FACE during the final battle in Uprising

.

The point here is that there's no reason for both of them to not be bosses or NPCs.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd still rather Medusa than Palutena. One fights in the series, the other took forever to do something, and is a cutscene only character. The other is a villain, while the other is just another random hero.

Villain, female, actually directly fights in gameplay. That's why I always hold her at a higher spot.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Because having demented morals and a third hole means a whole lot in the long run...

 

[Ember Reaper]

I don't think Kid Icarus warrants a new character. It has potential for more, but not now. Palutena seems to be the popular idea for a second character though

 

[Frostwraith]

I don't think Kid Icarus warrants a new character. It has potential for more, but not now. Palutena seems to be the popular idea for a second character though

why not? a new game was just released, it was made by Sakurai himself and despite some mixed reviews, the games was overall recieved positively so, I think this Smash might be good opportunity to represent better the Kid Icarus franchise.

besides Kid Icarus... I'd like more Fire Emblem characters too.

 

[splat]

why not? a new game was just released, it was made by Sakurai himself and despite some mixed reviews, the games was overall recieved positively so, I think this Smash might be good opportunity to represent better the Kid Icarus franchise.

besides Kid Icarus... I'd like more Fire Emblem characters too.

I think you should compare Kid Icarus with, say, Punch-Out!!.

Both the series are retro, with KI having two older games, PO having four, and both the games have gotten a new game fairly recently.

Now, ask yourself, does Punch-Out!! warrants a second character, too? No? That's how I feel on Palutena.

 

[Frostwraith]

wow... people never stop impressing me...

if EarthBound, a series with 3 games, two of them Japan-only and one Japan and US-only, whose creator said there won't be anymore games, has not one, but two characters, and has been represented since the original SSB, why wouldn't Kid Icarus and Punch-Out, better known series, with games released worldwide and for Nintendo's most recent consoles, have more?

 

[splat]

Yes, and so many of us think having both Ness and Lucas is justified. No one ever brings up cutting one of them, or even dares to talk smack on having two Earthbound representations.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

If I had to axe one of the Mother kids, it'd be Lucas. Ness is simply more relevant on a universal scale (Smash veteran, international renown, et cetera).

Again, that's only if one of them had to be cut.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Ember Reaper]

Yes, and so many of us think having both Ness and Lucas is justified. No one ever brings up cutting one of them, or even dares to talk smack on having two Earthbound representations.

If I'm ever asked about the Earthbound representation, I always say they do not deserve 2 reps, but cutting characters is a bad thing. My stance is jsut don't add anymore when other series deserves more.

@Frostwraith:
With that mindset we should get a new character per game. I could go through each series, but I don't think I have to to show it would go overboard really quick.

Now I guess I should have said I haven't fully played a Kid Icarus game. I really want Uprising because it looks like so much fun, but no 3DS...yet... So i can't really talk on the subject of new characters without playing fully at least one game. But with what I've seen and people I talked to they say palutena is teh best choice, but my friend (uprising is his favorite game) was hesitant to even say a character when I asked if someone from Kid Icarus should be added.

Yes it's Sakurai's game. That doesn't mean he adds characters of his willy nilly. We didn't see DDD or Meta Knight until Brawl. They may have been planned earlier (DDD) but ultimately they didn't make it. Sakurai was hesitant to over represent his own series. I think he's gonna keep that mind set unless want for a Kid Icarus character is overwhelming.

Fire emblem deserves more, I entirely agree with that.

 

[3Bismyname]

yeah Fire Emblem does deserve a new character. the series is still popular and still releasing games regularly.

Earthbound shouldn't get a new character unless Lucas or Ness get cut. (not that i want that) 2 characters are really all the series should have because it's popularity and relevancy are waning now and just isn't on par with some of the other series already in Smash that should get 3 reps like Fire Emblem and Donkey Kong.

Kid Icarus is a little fuzzier topic if you ask me. if we got a new character i'd say Palutana is the best choice due to her large importance to the game. however, if we didn't see a new character i wouldn't really be that surprised. it is a really good game but idk there's people who can explain it better than i could

 

[Second Power]

The thing with Medusa was that, in Uprising, Sakurai didn't seem to like her much. She only appears per se in 3 chapters, I believe. Hades, after his intro, appeared much more frequently. When Kid Icarus Uprising had that video montage released on the E-shop, it showed the different 'arcs' of the game. These included Hades', Viridi's, the Aurum's, even the Chaos Kin's. Medusa didn't get a part. Either they didn't want to give her a part, or they forgot her. Niether bodes well for her chances. It probably didn't help that her commanders...

I go by Thanatos now. The extra H is for HHHHAAAAMAAAAZING!

Why can't we just go home and watch TV?

I wanted to learn how to drive, so I bought an Exotank and built this racetrack. Then I realized I couldn't drive without hands.
How did you build a racetrack without hands?
Hard work and dedication.

Overall, she's overshadowed by nearly every character in the game simply because the game relies on the dialogue to make interesting characters, and she doesn't get anything all that interesting. But that's merely why I find her unlikely. (I'm not saying any of Medusa's commanders are more likely than her, just that Sakurai seemed to like them a tad more.)

Palutena, on the otherhand... She can fight, she fits in with Uprising's theme, she was even given her own anime short. Though, it comes down to whether or not the series is continued. Sure, Sakurai most likely won't be making it, but he doesn't have that much to do with Kirby anymore, either (at least, not on record), but they're still going strong. But, at this point, we really have no idea whether the series will continue. I do think it's likely, as a lot of work was put into Uprising and it seems like a shame if the series dies. Again. Therefore, Palutena would likely get in if they needed a second Icarus rep. I'm not going to say that Palutena is definite just that I believe, she's in the top ten.

On Fire Emblem, I feel like four characters wouldn't cause an upset. It really depends on how the bench line is set for how many characters a franchise gets. Of course, there's the chance that Sakurai doesn't have a bench line and plays it by ear. This would explain Star Fox's 3, and Mother's 2. In which case, it's based on Sakurai's bias and we don't have a prayer to predict it correctly.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I still don't know what to think about Palutena. I guess I'm 50/50 on the idea.

Her problem is that she is from a series with only three games (one of which is relatively obscure), which arguably makes the series "undeserving" of a second character. She could make an appearance due to Sakurai's bias, but Sakurai has been hesitant to include characters that he has worked with in the past. One could argue that this does not apply to Palutena because she is not actually "Sakurai's character" like the Kirby characters are.

What helps her is that she is somewhat popular due to her exposure in Smash, as well as her most recent appearance within her own series. Furthermore, Sakurai has worked with the character and there is a good chance that he is biased toward the series. This would cause him to bypass the idea that the series is "not deserving" of a second character like he did with the MOTHER series and add her anyway.

I also noticed that Palutena is the only character in the Subspace Emissary that does not have some sort of important role like boss or playable character. She's just kind of there. This could possibly indicate Sakurai's bias for her.

 

[Frostwraith]

don't get me wrong. I never said that a character from EarthBound should be cut. But they could add more for lesser represented series. the best three examples are Metroid, Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem.

I think Fire Emblem deserves more characters. As for Kid Icarus, I think now is the perfect opportunity to expand representation, since we don't know when we will have another game, same applies to Punch-Out.

On the other hand, I don't think that F-Zero deserves new characters for now: it's been a long time since the last F-Zero game was released, but it has its own mini-game in Nintendo Land, if that counts.

 

[Deleted member]

I've always thought that too. Oh, and Palutena, maybe?

Speaking of Palutena... I want to get people's opinions on her in Smash. I used to be against her only because of the fact that the Kid Icarus series is small and doesn't really "deserve" a second character, but she does seem pretty popular.

My thoughts on Palutena are summed up quite nicely by this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDN6LZexUIE

Mai Waifu, I'd welcome her with open arms if you catch my drift...

That there SHAFT head tilt.

 

[Frostwraith]

now that's what I call Studio SHAFT's signature!

it simply doesn't fool anyone.

---
continuing my previous post, F-Zero hasn't had a game released since Climax's Japan-only release in 2004... that was 8 years ago, when I first played Melee!

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, and so many of us think having both Ness and Lucas is justified. No one ever brings up cutting one of them, or even dares to talk smack on having two Earthbound representations.

Personally I feel we can do without Lucas. Ness is more than enough for Earthbound. Come at me brah!

now that's what I call Studio SHAFT's signature!

it simply doesn't fool anyone.

---
continuing my previous post, F-Zero hasn't had a game released since Climax's Japan-only release in 2004... that was 8 years ago, when I first played Melee!

Agreed, F-Zero doesn't NEED more reps. Even if we DID get another game, unless it was very story heavy, there's no need to have anyone else but Falcon on the roster. It works better that way imo.

 

[---]

Just as a thought, but debating whether or not a series deserves a character or not really isn't a good base for speculation. Given that we already know that Sakurai goes by character and the fact that there are so many contradicting examples within the Smash series about the representation of series. Not to mention that deserving is a poor and very subjective argument unless you're talking about Mario and possibly Pokemon.

 

[BKupa666]

I spy, with my little eye, Snake's jab.

And also, the inspiration for Flat Zone 3.

 

[Frostwraith]

I spy, with my little eye, Snake's jab.

And also, the inspiration for Flat Zone 3.

that's quite the collection of Kid Icarus Uprising AR Cards!

and yeah, any of these G&Ws could do well for a new Flat Zone.

 

[---]

More Sakurai twit pics? lol

Anyway I doubt they mean anything. As for Flat Zone 3, I wouldn't think Octopus would make for a good stage, not to mention Chef was already done in FZ2. Am kinda jealous Sakurai owns all the Uprising trading cards though.

 

[Frostwraith]

More Sakurai twit pics? lol

Anyway I doubt they mean anything. As for Flat Zone 3, I wouldn't think Octopus would make for a good stage, not to mention Chef was already done in FZ2. Am kinda jealous Sakurai owns all the Uprising trading cards though.

well, duh... who made Kid Icarus Uprising in the first place?

now that I think of it, Octopus wouldn't do well for a stage. it's already Mr. Game & Watch's FS.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I wish I had all those cards, especially the rare ones that unlock special idols in Kid Icarus: Uprising.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Sakurai has become the Paul Gale of SSB4 (Playstation All-Stars joke) and is now posting vague hints.

 

[Deleted member]

I've always thought that too. Oh, and Palutena, maybe?

Speaking of Palutena... I want to get people's opinions on her in Smash. I used to be against her only because of the fact that the Kid Icarus series is small and doesn't really "deserve" a second character, but she does seem pretty popular.

As I said before, "deserving" is highly subjective once you get into non-famous characters like Palutena.

Anyway, I feel as Palutena is one of the most likely additions to the game. She's highly requested and is second to Pit in importance. The only thing that could keep her out at this point is the off-chance Sakurai worries about biasing his own franchise, but I don't think Sakurai will have the same worry about Kid Icarus as he did with Kirby.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Yeah, "deserving" is a pretty weak argument

Everyone has different criteria for what they feel makes a character worthy of a slot

It would just boil down to two people arguing about their own opinions

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, as I said, I find Medusa a far better choice, but if Sakurai doesn't like her, then there's no chance.(but he does like Waluigi, heh)

Palutena, maybe... I actually see Magnus, his own made character, the most likely among characters that originated in the Kid Icarus games.

I do want more KI characters, though. And people need to learn by now that number of games means nothing to include characters and never will. The Mother series proves that already. It has more than the F-Zero series, which were already more well known, and has more games. Let's also note that Pokemon had less games than Zelda, and there was still more of them in the first Smash(and in general, there's overall more Pokemon characters among all three games). Number of games means nothing. As long as it has a game, and of course, was on a Nintendo system, it's viable.(for 1st/2nd parties)

 

[SmasherMaster]

Series don't need to have to deserve another rep. Besides Mario and maybe Pokemon, all of Nintendo's franchises have less than twenty games (not including remakes, unless something other than controls is different. )

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pretty sure Zelda has close to...

LOZ, Zelda II, ALTTP, LA, OOT, MM, WW, OOS, OOA, Tetra's Trackers, Four Swords, Four Swords Adventure, TP, SS, Link's Crossbow Training, PH, ST, one of the BS Zelda games(or was it two? I know the first one was a remake of the original, but the others were slightly similar to ALTTP, but not the same game), that leaves 19. Including the Tingle games, that's 22. Or 21, either or.

Zelda's pretty up there overall. One could argue Master Quest, since it's actually almost an entirely different game at this point.(different dungeons, different placements of items/skulltullas...) Link's Awakening DX, however, is about the same. But for all purposes, I'll leave MQ the same as DX, remakes. That said, 18 different games, and more coming. By the time Smash 4 is out, we'll have a minimum of 20. To note, Tetra's Trackers was a separate game in Japan, but never released outside of it. For the BS games, one was a remake of the first, another was a remake of ALTTP, and the last one was an unique game in a similar style to the overhead Zelda games.

Also, technically, there are the CD-i games, since that was still a Zelda Franchise game overall. It's just not made by Nintendo at all(which is what I assume you mean, SmasherMaster, otherwise, they're 21 not counting the Tingle games, and 24 counting them)

 

[3Bismyname]

Let's also note that Pokemon had less games than Zelda, and there was still more of them in the first Smash(and in general, there's overall more Pokemon characters among all three games)

well we gotta remember that the original Smash was really all about the main characters of the time. the main staples of the series, the protaganists, the heroes. Pokemon really doesn't have a real protagonist unless you count the trainer who was probably deemed unfeasable at the time if he was ever even considered. Pikachu had to get in because...well c'mon. but at the time Jigglypuff was as popular as Pikachu, at least in Japan at the time. plus she was a neat little joke character to some people.

Oh and Pokemon has 45 games now not including all the double releases like Red/Blue etc or the PC games. at least im pretty sure, i counted em like 3 times and i keep feeling like i forgot one.

 

[JPW]

just saw the new FE trailer. I think with the Krom coverage he'll definitely make the cut now.

Also is the Masked Man.... Marth? I have this feeling it is. But if it's not put it in spoilers that way it doesn't kill the story if it's someone more important later on.

I was just bringing that up because if it's not Marth he could be a 3rd rep. And Ike would be replaced.

I kind of like the look of the Masked Warrior.

also new FE looks awesome, and it has been the best selling FE to date. Krom not making the cut is very unlikely now i feel. I'm gonna say it. Besides PacMan he is my first guess for a shoe-in.

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler

That's Chrom's daughter from the future, Lucina, posing as the old Hero King Marth.

For all intents and purposes, though, the character is labeled as Marth until the big reveal.
Though "Marth" would not get in over Chrom, nor get in at Ike's expense. Especially since "Marth" and Chrom are very similar in skills and attacks.

Speaking of which, glad that Chrom finally has an official spelling of his name.

 

[Deleted member]

Series don't need to have to deserve another rep.

Jesus ****, what the hell. I had to read that a couple times in order to wrap it around my mind, and understand it.

>Has anyone really been far even as decided to use go want to do more like?

well we gotta remember that the original Smash was really all about the main characters of the time. the main staples of the series, the protaganists, the heroes. Pokemon really doesn't have a real protagonist unless you count the trainer who was probably deemed unfeasable at the time if he was ever even considered. Pikachu had to get in because...well c'mon. but at the time Jigglypuff was as popular as Pikachu, at least in Japan at the time. plus she was a neat little joke character to some people.

Oh and Pokemon has 45 games now not including all the double releases like Red/Blue etc or the PC games. at least im pretty sure, i counted em like 3 times and i keep feeling like i forgot one.

I wanted to say the same thing. I was pretty sure Pokemon had the most games out of all the Nintendo IPs besides Mario, I was just too lazy to look it up to say anything.

Spoiler

That's Chrom's daughter from the future, Lucina, posing as the old Hero King Marth.

For all intents and purposes, though, the character is labeled as Marth until the big reveal.
Though "Marth" would not get in over Chrom, nor get in at Ike's expense. Especially since "Marth" and Chrom are very similar in skills and attacks.

Speaking of which, glad that Chrom finally has an official spelling of his name.

I'm not too happy about Chrom getting in to be honest. What separates him from the two existing Lords in Smash really? Being the Medium hitter to Ike's heavy and Marth's light? Not that he's not a cool FE hero. Just that, he's nothing special for a fighting game that already has two heroes from the franchise that are very similar to him.

Anyone who's played the newest FE mind sharing any ideas as to what he might play like?

But yeah, as I said before. Chrom is the MOST popular character in Fire Emblem as of recent Japanese polls. Ike coming in second, Ike getting replaced is not happening in this life or the next.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I'm not too happy about Chrom getting in to be honest. What separates him from the two existing Lords in Smash really? Being the Medium hitter to Ike's heavy and Marth's light? Not that he's not a cool FE hero. Just that, he's nothing special for a fighting game that already has two heroes from the franchise that are very similar to him.

I think Chrom might be unique if they put an emphasis on the fact that he can use lances. Though that probably won't happen.

 

[yani]

Her problem is that she is from a series with only three games (one of which is relatively obscure), which arguably makes the series "undeserving" of a second character.

No no no no no.

 

[Deleted member]

As shinpichu said, he can use lances when he promotes to Master Lord.

He also has more of a "flashy" style of fighting. By which I mean he tends to spin his sword a lot, something Marth and Ike don't really do in Smash.

He's also capable of reclassing into an Archer, so he can logically use bows as well, something neither Marth nor Ike can do.
Or into a Cavalier, which gives him the ability to use spears and ride horseback (though horseback would be hard to incorporate into Smash).

As a Cavalier, he can promote to Great Knight, which allows him to use the Luna skill. (That means power of winds.)

He can also promote into a Paladin as a Cavalier, which allows him to use the Holy Shield skill, exculsive to Awakening. I can see this as an alternative to the overdone Counter technique, in that it gives Chrom an aura that temporarily halves damage and knockback (or works more like Bando's Chakra Armor from Naruto Shippuden Clash of Ninja Revolution 3, in that it gives Chrom temporary flinch and knockback resistance). Either way, the move can't be used consecutively, and takes a while after it wears off before you can use it again.

So yeah, a rough Specials list that I've come up with:
B: Luna
Side B: Lance Charge
Up B: Aether (unlike Ike's, Chrom doesn't toss the sword; he leaps up while spinning in a loop, then falls as he keeps spinning)
Down B: Holy Shield

I need to figure out what a good Final Smash would be, considering Critical Hit is just based off of the chance of getting critical hits in Fire Emblem, and Great Aether is a Smash exclusive technique.