Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Second Power]

Ugh. A page long post just got eaten. I'm going to make this quick. Look, on the topic of your critics, only two of them actually gave comprehensive reviews (maybe three, I can't view the video due to certain restrictions on my computer). A good review outlines the major good aspects and bad aspects. Not every minor nitpick. Fi too annoying? The harp stinks? Breaking several insignificant patterns? All minor. The visuals, the gameplay, the story, those are important. It's the reason no one likes Twilight. The book doesn't have any glaring errors as far as logistics, and writing goes. It's the fact that it glorifies relationship abuse is why it's considered an abyssmal series.

First off, lets look at a gameplay standpoint, do we really NEED another speedy gay swordsman? I mean, we already have Marth. Ghirahim brings NOTHING new to the table in terms of playability. Oh look, ANOTHER ****ing clone. Thanks but no thanks. It's clear the Smash-fanbase is pretty vocal about their dislike toward clone characters.

I know how to use the image tags too.

Let's see what Marth has: standard one handed sword style.

And now, Ghirahim: martial arts, single handed sword style, dual wielding two sword, a giant sword about as wide as your average tree, and magic.

Falcondorf has shown that anyone can be a clone. But this isn't Melee era. Clones are a lot more justified (Fox -> Wolf and Ness -> Lucas) and made indivisual enough that the fan base doesn't mind. Ghirahim, if he gets in, has microscopic chances to be a clone of Marth. No more than Marth had to be a clone of Link.

And, lastly, I just realized how off topic this whole thread has been thrown off. I don't think that's allowed, so I'm going to stop here. SS is my favorite LoZ, Ghirahim is one of my most favored newcomers that has a chance. If you really want to debate Ghirahim that badly, then we can move it to the Ghirahim thread. But on SS? I'm done. It's an opinion, and to each his own. But you can't claim yours is the majority, because you haven't talked to everyone who played it. Just the vocal ones. Unless we take some huge, worldwide poll, there's no definitive way to prove what people think.

I really don't want to challenge you again, because I've lost enough time to this, but your rooster is extremely hypocritical. You recognize people want Roy and Mewtwo back, or you yourself do, but you're perfectly willing to go cut happy. Whose to say there won't be an outcry for Jigglypuff to return? Wolf is fairly different, why can't he stay? I'd rather not start a whole debate again, but I would like an answer.

 

[lobotheduck21]

>1. a 3rd party does not have a greater chance then a nintendo character, no matter what nintendo character

You sure about that? Because Waluigi, a 1st party character, didn't make the cut for Brawl, while Sonic was pretty much guaranteed a spot once we saw Snake make the cut.

Oh, and for the Record, Pkmn Trainer/Unova Trainer are 1 character. If we go by that it's 4 in Brawl and 4 in my roster.

First off, lets look at a gameplay standpoint, do we really NEED another speedy gay swordsman? I mean, we already have Marth. Ghirahim brings NOTHING new to the table in terms of playability. Oh look, ANOTHER ****ing clone. Thanks but no thanks. It's clear the Smash-fanbase is pretty vocal about their dislike toward clone characters.

Sonic was the one exception to that rule, because popularity from japan cause that, and no other 3rd party character reaches that amount, if it wasn't because of popularity, he wouldn't have gotten in.

In terms of data, they take up about 2 to 3 characters

Wow, you've managed to insult fans of two franchise (at least me), guess every man with long hair is gay.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

First off, lets look at a gameplay standpoint, do we really NEED another speedy gay swordsman? I mean, we already have Marth. Ghirahim brings NOTHING new to the table in terms of playability. Oh look, ANOTHER ****ing clone. Thanks but no thanks. It's clear the Smash-fanbase is pretty vocal about their dislike toward clone characters.

Because Ike, Marth, Roy, Meta Knight, Link, and Toon Link are all clones of each other right? Clearly there's no possible way they could make a character with a sword be anything but a Marth clone.

 

[Deleted member]

Sonic was the one exception to that rule, because popularity from japan cause that, and no other 3rd party character reaches that amount, if it wasn't because of popularity, he wouldn't have gotten in.

In terms of data, they take up about 2 to 3 characters

Wow, you've managed to insult fans of two franchise (at least me), guess every man with long hair is gay.

>Actually feeling insulted by something someone on the internet said.

Get a life dude.

Oh, and for the record, I have long hair too *******.

Ugh. A page long post just got eaten. I'm going to make this quick. Look, on the topic of your critics, only two of them actually gave comprehensive reviews (maybe three, I can't view the video due to certain restrictions on my computer). A good review outlines the major good aspects and bad aspects. Not every minor nitpick. Fi too annoying? The harp stinks? Breaking several insignificant patterns? All minor. The visuals, the gameplay, the story, those are important. It's the reason no one likes Twilight. The book doesn't have any glaring errors as far as logistics, and writing goes. It's the fact that it glorifies relationship abuse is why it's considered an abyssmal series.

I know how to use the image tags too.

Let's see what Marth has: standard one handed sword style.

And now, Ghirahim: martial arts, single handed sword style, dual wielding two sword, a giant sword about as wide as your average tree, and magic.

Falcondorf has shown that anyone can be a clone. But this isn't Melee era. Clones are a lot more justified (Fox -> Wolf and Ness -> Lucas) and made indivisual enough that the fan base doesn't mind. Ghirahim, if he gets in, has microscopic chances to be a clone of Marth. No more than Marth had to be a clone of Link.

And, lastly, I just realized how off topic this whole thread has been thrown off. I don't think that's allowed, so I'm going to stop here. SS is my favorite LoZ, Ghirahim is one of my most favored newcomers that has a chance. If you really want to debate Ghirahim that badly, then we can move it to the Ghirahim thread. But on SS? I'm done. It's an opinion, and to each his own. But you can't claim yours is the majority, because you haven't talked to everyone who played it. Just the vocal ones. Unless we take some huge, worldwide poll, there's no definitive way to prove what people think.

I really don't want to challenge you again, because I've lost enough time to this, but your rooster is extremely hypocritical. You recognize people want Roy and Mewtwo back, or you yourself do, but you're perfectly willing to go cut happy. Whose to say there won't be an outcry for Jigglypuff to return? Wolf is fairly different, why can't he stay? I'd rather not start a whole debate again, but I would like an answer.

>People say my favorite game is bad
>it's not bad they're just nitpicking
>it's not the majority, it's just your opinion and a vocal minority

Ugh... Looks like we won't get anywhere with this. So... **** it. Lemme guess, you've played what, 50 games, all from Nintendo?

Spoiler

Yes, I am indeed implying you have **** taste.

Jiggs I was indifferent to, she could stay or go I couldn't care less. Wolf however, we could be better off without. We don't need three StarFox characters that all play essentially the same with a Speed/Jump/Power variation. The main concept behind my roster is cleansing all the characters that lack creativity, or are underwhelming and adding new fresh ideas to spice up the gameplay, hypocritical, perhaps, but I don't give a ****.

Because Ike, Marth, Roy, Meta Knight, Link, and Toon Link are all clones of each other right? Clearly there's no possible way they could make a character with a sword be anything but a Marth clone.

Marth and Roy, and Link and Toon Link are indeed clones with different mechanics. Also he would be have a playstyle very similar to that of Marth. A light, quick swordsman, that hits with a pierce effect and uses a fencing-like style, not only that but he's also extremely flamboyant to boot. Hmm, Gee, I wonder what sort of playstyle one could use with him. Even if you mix and match his movepool, the main idea behind his playstyle and strategy is the same. It's simple logic, that applies to most games. You have limited creativity with someone like Ghirahim. Compare that with some of the more creative idea's I've come across. Like, take KOS-MOS for example, and Robot chick who uses a combination of punches, slashes, kicks, lasers, and guns to beat down her opponents, most of her combat is focused on close to medium range, she's a heavy hitter of a medium-fast speed. Or Alisa, a young girl with a Giant Buster Sword and a Gattling Gun for a weapon. Travis Touchdown, uses a sword, but also beats down opponents with Grappling moves taken from Pro-wrestling. All of those are ideas that we have NOT seen at all in Smash Bros. What? Wanna keep it 1st party? Ok, in the Zelda franchise alone, you could have Mask Link who posses the ability of using 4 different transformations, all 4 of which have different properties, a bit similar to Pokemon Trainer I'll admit, but still much more creative than what Ghir can bring to the table. Or, how about Vaati? A dark mage with the ability to transform into a Giant Eyeball that shoots Lasers.

It's clear that all the support for Ghirahim comes from the rampant fanbase who can't stop getting erections when they hear the words "Skyward Sword." The reason why Waluigi is more promising, is because he at least brings something unique to the table. My dislike towards him is simply because he himself is a boring uninspired character, that has 0 character development. That's why I said, "give me a solid Waluigi game, and then we'll talk about him being in a Smash Bros game.

Someone a while back had suggested the idea of a GTA-like game in the Mushroom Kingdom, starring Wario and Waluigi as thiefs who pull heists and stuff. Now THAT is something I could get behind.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

It's clear that all the support for Ghirahim comes from the rampant fanbase who can't stop getting erections when they hear the words "Skyward Sword." The reason why Waluigi is more promising, is because he at least brings something unique to the table. My dislike towards him is simply because he himself is a boring uninspired character, that has 0 character development.

I'm not the biggest Skyward Sword fan(my favorite 3D Zelda is Wind Waker), but I wouldn't be upset if he didn't get in. He's certainly more memorable than Zant.

Also, just because you don't like a character doesn't mean you have to insult the people who do on a very base level. It's one thing to say you don't like a character/game, another thing to call the people who do idiots, and a whole other thing to use the language and tone you do.

 

[lobotheduck21]

>Actually feeling insulted by something someone on the internet said.

Get a life dude.

Oh, and for the record, I have long hair too *******.



>People say my favorite game is bad
>it's not bad they're just nitpicking
>it's not the majority, it's just your opinion and a vocal minority

Ugh... Looks like we won't get anywhere with this. So... **** it. Lemme guess, you've played what, 50 games, all from Nintendo?

Spoiler

Yes, I am indeed implying you have **** taste.

Jiggs I was indifferent to, she could stay or go I couldn't care less. Wolf however, we could be better off without. We don't need three StarFox characters that all play essentially the same with a Speed/Jump/Power variation. The main concept behind my roster is cleansing all the characters that lack creativity, or are underwhelming and adding new fresh ideas to spice up the gameplay, hypocritical, perhaps, but I don't give a ****.




Marth and Roy, and Link and Toon Link are indeed clones with different mechanics. Also he would be have a playstyle very similar to that of Marth. A light, quick swordsman, that hits with a pierce effect and uses a fencing-like style, not only that but he's also extremely flamboyant to boot. Hmm, Gee, I wonder what sort of playstyle one could use with him. Even if you mix and match his movepool, the main idea behind his playstyle and strategy is the same. It's simple logic, that applies to most games. You have limited creativity with someone like Ghirahim. Compare that with some of the more creative idea's I've come across. Like, take KOS-MOS for example, and Robot chick who uses a combination of punches, slashes, kicks, lasers, and guns to beat down her opponents, most of her combat is focused on close to medium range, she's a heavy hitter of a medium-fast speed. Or Alisa, a young girl with a Giant Buster Sword and a Gattling Gun for a weapon. Travis Touchdown, uses a sword, but also beats down opponents with Grappling moves taken from Pro-wrestling. All of those are ideas that we have NOT seen at all in Smash Bros. What? Wanna keep it 1st party? Ok, in the Zelda franchise alone, you could have Mask Link who posses the ability of using 4 different transformations, all 4 of which have different properties, a bit similar to Pokemon Trainer I'll admit, but still much more creative than what Ghir can bring to the table. Or, how about Vaati? A dark mage with the ability to transform into a Giant Eyeball that shoots Lasers.

It's clear that all the support for Ghirahim comes from the rampant fanbase who can't stop getting erections when they hear the words "Skyward Sword." The reason why Waluigi is more promising, is because he at least brings something unique to the table. My dislike towards him is simply because he himself is a boring uninspired character, that has 0 character development. That's why I said, "give me a solid Waluigi game, and then we'll talk about him being in a Smash Bros game.

Someone a while back had suggested the idea of a GTA-like game in the Mushroom Kingdom, starring Wario and Waluigi as thiefs who pull heists and stuff. Now THAT is something I could get behind.

The guy that posts random images on the internet to help insult someone is saying to get a life? Sad. Besides, you're saying that Waluigi brings something unique to the table, but you were just comparing him to Ghir a few pages over.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Hey guys, uh, don't you think it'd be best to just ignore this guy before he brings down this entire thread ?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Hey guys, uh, don't you think it'd be best to just ignore this guy before he brings down this entire thread ?

Will do. I've said what I wanted to said, which was probably doing more harm than good.

Anyway, lot's of people seem to be making prediction rosters, so maybe I'll make one too. I heard something about a roster maker at one point, could someone point me to where that is? nvm, found it. Anyone have any tips on getting it to run in Linux under Wine?

 

[---]

Hey guys, uh, don't you think it'd be best to just ignore this guy before he brings down this entire thread?

Was wondering when someone would be smart enough to say this. It's just like the old thread all over again. So anyway moving on...


Kinda bored at the moment, so I guess I'll post my current roster here to get some opinions on:

I'll explain choices as questions come up, rather than filling up an entire page as to why I chose Toon Link over Young Link and whatnot.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Hey guys, uh, don't you think it'd be best to just ignore this guy before he brings down this entire thread ?

Ya, probably a good Idea

Was wondering when someone would be smart enough to say this. It's just like the old thread all over again. So anyway moving on...


Kinda bored at the moment, so I guess I'll post my current roster here to get some opinions on:

I'll explain choices as questions come up, rather than filling up an entire page as to why I chose Toon Link over Young Link and whatnot.

Just out of curiosity, why did you chose saki

 

[lobotheduck21]

double post, sorry

 

[splat]

I'll explain choices as questions come up, rather than filling up an entire page as to why I chose Toon Link over Young Link and whatnot.

Seems like a decent roster to me. Just curious, why did you add two DK characters without adding a Mario one?
Also, adding Shulk over other characters such as Isaac.

Not trying to bring your roster down in any way or form, just wondering what your explanations behind those picks are

 

[Second Power]

I think it's as good as any roster can get. I'm a little curious about your stance on what new franchises to give a character, if for no other reason then to hear your thoughts. For non retro unrepresented series, the fore-runners are Little Mac, Saki, Shulk, and Isaac. So, why did you choose your three over Isaac?

Edit: Did the search, Golden has some excellent points. What I want to know now is, why do you think all three should be on the roster? Why should they get in over another rep from a series already in Smash?

 

[Deleted member]

People need to realize that Isaac is not that likely. I've explained why numerous times.

Now, I can't tell for sure how Shulk fares, but at least with Little Mac, Punch-Out being revived helps his case and Sakurai considers him a legend, and Saki, Sakurai has shown an interest in him during Brawl's development.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I don't give a ****.

This should be a clear indication that anything you guys say to Manly will be thrown right back you; with pictures, insults, and 4chan-eqsue behavior. However, I feel that he has presented some interesting points and, while goes about it the entirely wrong way, does argue some valid points.

I feel both Saki, Shulk, and Isaac have a 50/50 chance of at least one appearing. Shulk is the most current and relevant, Saki appeared in Brawl, and Isaac is the most iconic IMO. It really depends where Sakurai wants to take Smash 4.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'd hardly say that Issac is iconic, mainly because he is a generic RPG protagonist that stars in a lesser known Nintendo series.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Posted my prediction roster here! I'm not proud of how it turned out, so I'll probably revisit it shortly. I tried to only include characters I thought were no-brainers or almost guaranteed, but I added a few as filler so the end result would look nice-ish. Feel free to ask questions.

Edit: Added a full wishlist(newcomers only) to my sig. Feel free to comment on that in the appropriate thread as well.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I'd hardly say that Issac is iconic, mainly because he is a generic RPG protagonist that stars in a lesser known Nintendo series.

Out of those three though, I feel he is more iconic and recognized within the Nintendo community. Shulk is still rather new and unknown and Saki, while gaining recognition in Brawl, is still fairly obscure for Western audiences. That is my take on it at least. All three have their strengths and weaknesses and, since people (including me), tend to clump them together; I feel that these strengths/weaknesses will come into conflict with each other.

I don't think we will see all three of them appear but at the most two of them will appear IMO. There is also the chance that none of them will appeaer which would be a tragedy.

 

[Deleted member]

People need to realize that Isaac is not that likely. I've explained why numerous times.

Now, I can't tell for sure how Shulk fares, but at least with Little Mac, Punch-Out being revived helps his case and Sakurai considers him a legend, and Saki, Sakurai has shown an interest in him during Brawl's development.

Why is Isaac not likely? Just curious on your opinion is all, I've always felt he's got a decent chance. But perhaps you're right.

Was wondering when someone would be smart enough to say this. It's just like the old thread all over again. So anyway moving on...


Kinda bored at the moment, so I guess I'll post my current roster here to get some opinions on:

I'll explain choices as questions come up, rather than filling up an entire page as to why I chose Toon Link over Young Link and whatnot.

I like it, just a few questions.

Why Samurai Goroh? Never really understood his support. I think C.Falcon is enough to represent the F-Zero Franchise, especially considering we still haven't gotten a game since GX. Hopefully we'll see one on the WiiU though.

Like splat said, why the two DK additions. I can understand why you would separate Dixie from Diddy, to keep the Diddy mains happy. But then, why even add her at all?

Also, you REALLY think the Mii is a good addition for a character?

Lastly, Zoroark? Why? He's not even that iconic in the 5th generation. Even as one of N's Pokemon, he simply doesn't stand out, and hasn't been marketed nearly as much as Lucario. Why not just reskin Red to a Unova trainer or N?

 

[ChaosSoul]

Out of those three though, I feel he is more iconic and recognized within the Nintendo community. Shulk is still rather new and unknown and Saki, while gaining recognition in Brawl, is still fairly obscure for Western audiences. That is my take on it at least. All three have their strengths and weaknesses and, since people (including me), tend to clump them together; I feel that these strengths/weaknesses will come into conflict with each other.

I don't think we will see all three of them appear but at the most two of them will appear IMO. There is also the chance that none of them will appeaer which would be a tragedy.

Well so was marth and roy and to a lesser extent lucas

 

[Metal Overlord]

Oh wow, a page that isn't cluttered with lame reaction pics and walls of texts for a change

Honestly, I don't think Saki being obscure in the West really means much when it comes to his chances

At least Sakurai's shown some love to him on the DOJO

 

[Deleted member]

I'd hardly say that Issac is iconic, mainly because he is a generic RPG protagonist that stars in a lesser known Nintendo series.

I feel he's more iconic than the other two though, and I haven't even played any Golden Sun games, barring the opening and first dungeon of the first one.

Posted my prediction roster here! I'm not proud of how it turned out, so I'll probably revisit it shortly. I tried to only include characters I thought were no-brainers or almost guaranteed, but I added a few as filler so the end result would look nice-ish. Feel free to ask questions.

It's ****. Nah, I'm just ****ing with ya, it's alright.

Anyway, I assume Takamaru is the new old-school addition everyone is predicting? I keep seeing him tossed into every roster. Isn't he form some unheard of Japanese game?

Same question, why Goroh? Same reason.

Also, Krom...

However, as much as I hate to admit it, I'm sure we'll see his face in the next Smash, I won't like it, but I can see him make the cut. He's the most popular FE character among J-gamers atm. Just like Ike was 6 years ago. Except Ike had better reasons, but still I feel PoR got a sequel simply because people loved Ike to begin with. I haven't played the new one yet (and I won't for a while (no 3DS)), but if the game lends itself, given the positive word of mouth, and general reception of the new one, I'm sure we can see a sequel to it as well.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Well so was marth and roy and to a lesser extent lucas

I wasn't saying that would hurt his chances. I was just making a statement that Saki is lesser known to Western audiences compared to Isaac. Out of the three that I listed, I feel that Isaac is currently the most well known. Does that mean Isaac has superiority over the three? No. That is just one his strengths. More so though, I was answering Habenero's question as to why I feel Isaac is more iconic than Shulk and Saki.

In fact, IMO, between the three I feel Saki has the highest chance of appearing playable, followed by Shulk, and lastly Isaac.

@Manly: yeah, Takamaru is a retro character but was revived in a hack and Slash Samurai Warriors franchise as a extra character as well as a stage based off his game. As well, his game will appear in a ninja-star throwing attraction in Nintendo Land for the Wii U. He is generally agreed as the most likely Retro newcomer.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

It's ****. Nah, I'm just ****ing with ya, it's alright.

Anyway, I assume Takamaru is the new old-school addition everyone is predicting? I keep seeing him tossed into every roster. Isn't he form some unheard of Japanese game?

Same question, why Goroh? Same reason.

Also, Krom...

However, as much as I hate to admit it, I'm sure we'll see his face in the next Smash, I won't like it, but I can see him make the cut. He's the most popular FE character among J-gamers atm. Just like Ike was 6 years ago. Except Ike had better reasons, but still I feel PoR got a sequel simply because people loved Ike to begin with. I haven't played the new one yet (and I won't for a while (no 3DS)), but if the game lends itself, given the positive word of mouth, and general reception of the new one, I'm sure we can see a sequel to it as well.

Krom was one of the iffy filler characters I mentioned. Though I do think FE certainly merits 4 characters, outside of the obvious 3, I'm not really sure who. Krom seemed like the best bet to me.

The fact that F-Zero has only gotten one character while Starfox has 3(with many predicting 4 in the next game) baffles me. If it were up to me, we'd be getting Goroh and Black Shadow, but as it stands I think Goroh is the only non-Falcon F-zero character who most Smash players will recognize, so he's the only one I can justify in a prediction roster.

 

[ChaosSoul]

Toushe venus toushe well im leavin bye

 

[Deleted member]

Krom was one of the iffy filler characters I mentioned. Though I do think FE certainly merits 4 characters, outside of the obvious 3, I'm not really sure who. Krom seemed like the best bet to me.

The fact that F-Zero has only gotten one character while Starfox has 3(with many predicting 4 in the next game) baffles me. If it were up to me, we'd be getting Goroh and Black Shadow, but as it stands I think Goroh is the only non-Falcon F-zero character who most Smash players will recognize.

Then why Krom and not delicious Lyn bro? Meh, but then again, that's just wishtful thinking on my part. I KNOW it's gonna happen. We'll get Krom, and Lyn will be left in the dark once more. However, we can agree that Sakurai is aware of her fan support, we did get her as an assist trophy. So she still has a chance if fans and supporters are vocal enough.

I do agree on FE deserving 4 characters, it's a long running, very popular series, with increasing popularity in the West. And as a FE fan it's something I will gladly welcome, as long as we get a FE FEMALE DAMMIT, we need more strong females in Smash.

On the F-Zero... I still don't see it. Imo, SF didn't deserve 3 characters, Wolf only got in imo due to fan support. I kinda regret being a Wolf supporter back when Brawl was in development considering the result. Anyway, just because X=2, it doesn't necessarily mean Y must also =2, it's a logical fallacy. So, just because SF has 3 characters, it doesn't mean F-Zero must ALSO get additional characters. I feel F-Zero is just fine being represented by the lonely Falcon. There's no need to add more characters, not even as bosses. To me, it simple doesn't feel right. Not because F-Zero doesn't deserve it, but rather because it doesn't need it. Catch my drift?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Then why Krom and not delicious Lyn bro? Meh, but then again, that's just wishtful thinking on my part. I KNOW it's gonna happen. We'll get Krom, and Lyn will be left in the dark once more. However, we can agree that Sakurai is aware of her fan support, we did get her as an assist trophy. So she still has a chance if fans and supporters are vocal enough.

I do agree on FE deserving 4 characters, it's a long running, very popular series, with increasing popularity in the West. And as a FE fan it's something I will gladly welcome, as long as we get a FE FEMALE DAMMIT, we need more strong females in Smash.

Like I said, Krom isn't my favorite, he just seems the most likely to me. I personally think if we do get a female, it would(or should) be either Micaiah or Anna.

On the F-Zero... I still don't see it. Imo, SF didn't deserve 3 characters, Wolf only got in imo due to fan support. I kinda regret being a Wolf supporter back when Brawl was in development considering the result. Anyway, just because X=2, it doesn't necessarily mean Y must also =2, it's a logical fallacy. So, just because SF has 3 characters, it doesn't mean F-Zero must ALSO get additional characters. I feel F-Zero is just fine being represented by the lonely Falcon. There's no need to add more characters, not even as bosses. To me, it simple doesn't feel right. Not because F-Zero doesn't deserve it, but rather because it doesn't need it. Catch my drift?

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Personally, I think one character to represent a cast of over 30 just doesn't seem right to me. Anyway, I made the Star Fox comparison because the series have a comparable number of games and are around the same age. I agree it's more a personal thing than anything else, but still it annoys me.

 

[Deleted member]

Why is Isaac not likely? Just curious on your opinion is all, I've always felt he's got a decent chance. But perhaps you're right.

1. The Sakurai Issue: Sakurai has been on record stating that the only newer series he felt worthy of a playable character were Pikmin and Animal Crossing (though also felt that a playable character from Animal Crossing did not make sense due to the characters being "implausible to have fighting").
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14363793&postcount=99629

Spoiler

This means that during Golden Sun's peak, and most importantly, Isaac's time in the limelight, neither he nor the series were deemed "worthy".
I heavily doubt Dark Dawn will do anything to change that.

2. The Camelot Clause: Isaac and Golden Sun as a whole belong to a 2nd Party, rather than a 1st. This means that Sakurai is not the only one with a say.
Camelot, who holds the rights to the series, have been heavily advocating Dark Dawn as the start of the "main series", with the original title and Lost Age being "prequels". This means they are advocating for Matthew as the main hero.
So even if Sakurai were to change his mind about the series and discuss the usage of Isaac as a playable character, Camelot would likely push for Matthew instead.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The unworthy franchise thing could also be applied to Punch-Out!!, Sin & Punishment, and The Legendary Starfy too if Brawl was an indication. However, each franchise received something new after the release of Brawl that may or may not change things slightly. Punch Out!! was rebooted on the Wii, Sin & Punishment received a localization on the Wii Virtual Console and a sequel, The Legendary Star finally got localized in North America starting with the 5th game, and of course Golden Sun: Dark Dawn mentioned above.

Also I presume that new "unworthy" franchises at this point would be stuff like Fossil Fighters, Dillon's Rolling Western, Sakura Samurai: Art of The Sword, The Last Story, and Pandora's Tower, at least to name a few. I presume the "worthy" ones next time around will be Xenoblade and Pushmo, the latter being simply regulated to a stage and other minor stuff similar to Animal Crossing.

 

[Ember Reaper]

@Tryphen: That's a nice roster there! I'd be excited for that roster whole heartily!

@shinpichu: Awesome roster too. It's a small roster that covers all the necessities! The only questionable is Krom, but with the logic Fire Emblem deserves 4 reps, it's completely understandable!

Golden brings up some good points about the Camelot thing saying Matthew is the main hero. Him being wanted so strongly here is still helping him at least.

 

[Deleted member]

It can only apply to Starfy in the Brawl sense, as Punch-Out and S&P debuted prior to 2001.
Sakurai specifically said series that debuted since 2001.

So while it hinders Isaac and Starfy, it does not affect Saki or Little Mac.
Starfy MAY break out, given that his latest game came outside of Japan for once, introducing him to more people, though it's hard to tell at this point.

EDIT: And given that there is an unknown series that was going to have a music set, but was scrapped, and that Starly (Stapy as she's known in Brawl) appears in the Fighter Related section of Trophies, it's very possible Starfy was going to be playable at some point, giving a bit more of a push for Smash 4. And it may imply that Starfy isn't "unworthy".
Then again....Sakurai didn't mention Starfy when he mentioned Pikmin and Animal Crossing, so who knows...

 

[Robert of Normandy]

@shinpichu: Awesome roster too. It's a small roster that covers all the necessities! The only questionable is Krom, but with the logic Fire Emblem deserves 4 reps, it's completely understandable!

Golden brings up some good points about the Camelot thing saying Matthew is the main hero. Him being wanted so strongly here is still helping him at least.

It's funny - Isaac was the OTHER character I felt was a but iffy. Still seems more of a solid choice than Krom though, and if you don't like him you could always pretend that slot is taken by Matthew instead. I should mention I haven't played any of the GS games, so I don't know much about the series.

 

[---]

Forgive me if I don't give satisfying explanations, I'm kinda out of it at the moment with various work for school.

Just out of curiosity, why did you chose saki

Ever notice Sakurai's obsession with arcade shooters?:

Kirby's Dream Land - Kabula Fight
Kirby's Adventure - Nightmare Fight
Kirby Super Star - Heart of Nova
Super Smash Bros. Melee - Credits
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Roll Call
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Coin Launcher
Kid Icarus: Uprising

Besides that, he's shown a lot of love towards him on the Dojo. Even if S&P bombed in sales and Saki is only decently popular, it's a good bet the odds are still in his favor than most characters.

Seems like a decent roster to me. Just curious, why did you add two DK characters without adding a Mario one?
Also, adding Shulk over other characters such as Isaac.

Not trying to bring your roster down in any way or form, just wondering what your explanations behind those picks are

To keep things simple, with Mario (and Zelda) I'm a supporter of the High Bar Theory, and with DK both Dixie and K. Rool are big characters in the series, the former having been planned for Brawl and has a decent amount of popularity, the latter having a very vocal and obvious fanbase.

I think it's as good as any roster can get. I'm a little curious about your stance on what new franchises to give a character, if for no other reason then to hear your thoughts. For non retro unrepresented series, the fore-runners are Little Mac, Saki, Shulk, and Isaac. So, why did you choose your three over Isaac?

Since I'm still having some headaches from going over him in the Backroom, to keep things simple, I think he missed his chances during Brawl. With GS3 having gone under most people's radars like S&P2 (only without Sakurai's support to back him up, AKA the "Unworthy" Franchises despite GS and Starfy having done better in sales than Pikmin) and Shulk taking over a lot of his territory. Honestly I'd either bet Shulk or neither of them, but to fill space I went with the former.

Why Samurai Goroh? Never really understood his support. I think C.Falcon is enough to represent the F-Zero Franchise, especially considering we still haven't gotten a game since GX. Hopefully we'll see one on the WiiU though.

It's really rather tough to justify any F-Zero newcomer other than it's the series that most everyone wants to see get a new character (a new game too). As for why we didn't get one during Brawl is anyone's guess other than Sakurai whimsy.

As for why Goroh, if you know F-Zero you know Goroh and Sakurai's obvious focus on him in Smash.

Like splat said, why the two DK additions. I can understand why you would separate Dixie from Diddy, to keep the Diddy mains happy. But then, why even add her at all?

Dixie was actually separated because of programming issues of making them a single character. Still she's a big character in the DK series, has a decent amount of popularity, and almost made it in. It's a good bet that Sakurai will try and come back to her like he has with Mewtwo, Bowser, King Dedede, etc.

Also, you REALLY think the Mii is a good addition for a character?

They're a 50/50 character for me. Sakurai has already mentioned that he had originally thought about making them playable in Brawl in the Iwata Asks interview but downplayed them instead to not group Brawl in with many of the earlier Mii focused Wii games. Besides that they're obviously big for Nintendo and can fit in most games rather well. With mentions of customization, Miis are also the first characters that have popped into people's minds.

Lastly, Zoroark? Why? He's not even that iconic in the 5th generation. Even as one of N's Pokemon, he simply doesn't stand out, and hasn't been marketed nearly as much as Lucario.

Wow, as a guy who's always been arguing in defense of Lucario, I never thought I'd be arguing for Zoroark. lol

In any case it comes down whether or not Sakurai feels the need for a new Pokemon character in comparison to what he already has (Mewtwo and Lucario) as well as how much TPC pushes him (my bet is probably not much as Sakurai will ask for suggestions first like he has done in the past).

Still as anyone would notice, it's obvious that she's been marketed as the next Lucario (although she hasn't been as successful) so it'd be crazy not to think that she'll noticed by Sakurai, which is often all a character needs. And as a recent example, Zoroark actually had a pretty good sized role in Black 2/White 2 serving as a recurring NPC in the game as well as good sized roles in both the anime and manga, the latter serving as N's main Pokemon. Either way she's become a good bet if one were to wager us getting a new Pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, Zoroark is a recurring NPC in B2/W2? First I've heard of this.
Then again, I haven't been following B2/W2 much...

 

[---]

@Golden: You first meet it playing pranks in the area where you could do the Zoroark event in BW. After you defeat Kyurem you meet it in Victory Road guarding the entrance to N's Castle. You meet it again in the End-Game where it lets you into N's Castle and has a little moment with N himself. You can also meet it yet again in the Ex-Team Plasma's base if you connect games where it explains what happened to Team Plasma and N after the events of BW.

I'm pretty sure you meet it again at another point or two during the end-game, but I'm not too far into it yet. You also do technically get N's Zorua as a present midway through the game. Ironically when you meet it in the event area from the first game, it uses it's Illusions to talk to you a bit. lol

 

[FlareHabanero]

EDIT: And given that there is an unknown series that was going to have a music set, but was scrapped, and that Starly (Stapy as she's known in Brawl) appears in the Fighter Related section of Trophies, it's very possible Starfy was going to be playable at some point, giving a bit more of a push for Smash 4.

Even though I firmly believe Starfy being planned very early as a playable character thing could be plausible (hence one of the reasons I support the character), it's still up in the air if it's true or not. The only way we can be 100% percent sure is if Sakurai or a staff member that developed Brawl can confirm this.

Also if Starfy was indeed demoted in the middle of development, I presume it was due to the concerns of adding a Japanese only series. While it might of worked for Fire Emblem, the Legendary Starfy games are kind of a different story. Fire Emblem wasn't localized because it was too obtuse (difficult), while the Legendary Starfy games were deemed too Japanese and cutesy for an American audience. So I theorize that Starfy was cut because such a small harmless looking not-starfish would not be appealing to a western audience at the time. Though ironically doing that kind of bit them in the *** since people in the west think that Starfy is an abysmal weakling, and may be one of the reasons why The Legendary Starfy had mediocre sales despite a decent amount of advertisement.

 

[Deleted member]

@Golden: You first meet it playing pranks in the area where you could do the Zoroark event in BW. After you defeat Kyurem you meet it in Victory Road guarding the entrance to N's Castle. You meet it again in the End-Game where it lets you into N's Castle and has a little moment with N himself. You can also meet it yet again in the Ex-Team Plasma's base if you connect games where it explains what happened to Team Plasma and N after the events of BW.

I'm pretty sure you meet it again at another point or two during the end-game, but I'm not too far into it yet. You also do technically get N's Zorua as a present midway through the game. Ironically when you meet it in the event area from the first game, it uses it's Illusions to talk to you a bit. lol

So, it's the same Zoroark from B/W as if it was uncaught?

 

[---]

So, it's the same Zoroark from B/W as if it was uncaught?

Yep, it's probably the same Zoroark from the final battle with N from B/W.

 

[Deleted member]

Yep, it's probably the same Zoroark from the final battle with N from B/W.

But the catchable one is female while N's is male.

 

[---]

But the catchable one is female while N's is male.

??? The NPC one you run into is N's. You never bump into the wild female event Zoroark in the game at all.