Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[---]

Up B: Aether (unlike Ike's, Chrom doesn't toss the sword; he leaps up while spinning in a loop, then falls as he keeps spinning)

??? That's weird, I finally found a video of him preforming it (@15:15) and it's just Ike's Dash Attack mixed together with Quick Draw. It would be interesting if you could cancel it into another attack similar to Marth's Side-Special though. It's certainly something Ike can't obviously do in Smash unlike in the FE series.

In the first video I posted, he does have an interesting attack stance with lances; jumping up and then diving down at a 45 degree angle. I have yet to see him use his Shield (would be really interesting to become a move since he's holding the Shield of Seals), I have also seen him spinning his sword in his hand but it's only for show (Taunt?).

I'm feeling a little better about him now, but I'm still betting on Roy, only on a small margin though.

 

[Opossum]

Anywho, I'm back after a two or so week period of no internet due to unforeseen circumstances, and I felt it was time to update my roster to reflect my current thoughts. Now, I cannot post a picture at the moment as I'm not on my usual computer, but here's a list for now.


[COLLAPSE="Roster:"][COLLAPSE="Mario Series:"]
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Toad
Bowser[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Donkey Kong Series and Mario Related:"]
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool
Yoshi
Wario[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Legend of Zelda Series:"]
Link
Toon Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Metroid Series:"]
Samus/Zero Suit Samus
Ridley[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="F-Zero Series:"]
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Pokemon Series:"]
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard)
Lucario
Mewtwo[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Mother Series:"]
Ness
Lucas[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Kid Icarus Series:"]
Pit
Palutena[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="StarFox Series:"]
Fox
Falco
Wolf[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Kirby Series:"]
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Fire Emblem Series:"]
Marth
Roy
Ike[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Smaller Franchises:"]
Olimar
Little Mac
Saki
Starfy[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Retro and "Hardware" Series:"]
Ice Climbers
Muddy Mole
Takamaru

Mr. Game and Watch
R.O.B.
Mii[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Third Party Series:"]
Snake
Sonic
Mega Man[/COLLAPSE]
[/COLLAPSE]
49 Slots, 53 Characters with Transformations. Open to questions as well, if anything needs to be explained.


It's nice to be back.

 

[Deleted member]

As shinpichu said, he can use lances when he promotes to Master Lord.

He also has more of a "flashy" style of fighting. By which I mean he tends to spin his sword a lot, something Marth and Ike don't really do in Smash.

He's also capable of reclassing into an Archer, so he can logically use bows as well, something neither Marth nor Ike can do.
Or into a Cavalier, which gives him the ability to use spears and ride horseback (though horseback would be hard to incorporate into Smash).

As a Cavalier, he can promote to Great Knight, which allows him to use the Luna skill. (That means power of winds.)

He can also promote into a Paladin as a Cavalier, which allows him to use the Holy Shield skill, exculsive to Awakening. I can see this as an alternative to the overdone Counter technique, in that it gives Chrom an aura that temporarily halves damage and knockback (or works more like Bando's Chakra Armor from Naruto Shippuden Clash of Ninja Revolution 3, in that it gives Chrom temporary flinch and knockback resistance). Either way, the move can't be used consecutively, and takes a while after it wears off before you can use it again.

So yeah, a rough Specials list that I've come up with:
B: Luna
Side B: Lance Charge
Up B: Aether (unlike Ike's, Chrom doesn't toss the sword; he leaps up while spinning in a loop, then falls as he keeps spinning)
Down B: Holy Shield

I need to figure out what a good Final Smash would be, considering Critical Hit is just based off of the chance of getting critical hits in Fire Emblem, and Great Aether is a Smash exclusive technique.

Does he actually use a shield when using that Skill? Because I can definitely jump on the idea of an offensive Shield user. Especially if it's anything like this dude:

 

[Tweezer Salad]

I really want Mewtwo back. Never cared for Roy, but to be fair I guess they should include him as well since he surprisingly had alot of people who liked him

I'd love to see what they could come up for Mewtwo to shape him up to a better character.

 

[Metal Overlord]

^ Well, for starters, I would change him from a lightweight to a middleweight at least

I get that Mewtwo's floating makes him lighter than his normal 269 pound self, but seriously, there is no way in hell that Ivysaur of all characters should be heavier than Mewtwo

 

[Deleted member]

@Tri and Manly: No, from what I've read, Holy Shield is a sort of "magic" that halves the strength of opposing Bow and Magic attacks; it doesn't sound like it involves actual shields. Which I why I made a comparison to Bando's Chakra Armor.
Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xu5HG-5LxQ (0:02-0:07; it cancels when his other special technique is used)
Though the fact that Paladins typically have actual shields of their own, it could very well be that their shield is just made enchanted with the skill, as I have not actually seen the skill in action.. (But I like my idea better. )

@Tri alone: THAT's his Aether ability? I didn't base his Aether on what I knew about his version, since I didn't know anything. I merely felt making it more flashy than Ike's would befit him.
Now that I know that's HIS Aether, it'd make more sense as a Side Special, wouldn't you agree?
Although, I am interested to see his lance attack; can you point out where it is in the vid, as I'm a bit lazy to watch the whole vid just to see it. Sounds to me it'd make a good Up Special, where he leaps up, then crashes downward at a 45 degree angle.
Also, the fact he does carry the Pedistal of Flames (as it's called in Awakening) would also set him apart from Marth and Ike by being able to attack with his shield like Manly suggested.

@Manly alone: That would be a great idea for him to batter people with his shield. Would definitely set him apart from Ike, which means I can stop calling him "Ike 2.0".


Now that I know how different Chrom is and can be in Smash, I have no qualms about him now, nor do I fear for Ike anymore.

 

[Reyson]

While Chrom may be able to use lances, I don't see him using them all too often, just like Ike can use axes but seems unlikely that he'll use them. Most lords have iconic weapons and tend to use them almost exclusively.

 

[---]

@Golden: Yep that's Aether in action. The first hit healed Chrom, and second did 1.5 more damage. Also had the Aether skill symbol in the top left corner. Definitely not as flashy as Ike's, although I do wonder what Paris's Aether looks like now as he's a different class than Chrom.

As for how he attacks with a Lance, @4:15.

EDIT: @4:30, Lucina also does Aether, though because it's at a distance it's much less flashy.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I'm not too hip to the Fire Emblem jive, so someone who is, please help me.

Chrom or Roy? Which is it gonna be?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I'm not too hip to the Fire Emblem jive, so someone who is, please help me.

Chrom or Roy? Which is it gonna be?

Yes.

It could be either, or both, or neither. Roy has a previous appearance which has endeared him to a number of Smash fans, while Chrom has the advantage of being the main Lord of the most recent game. But there's no rule that says that FE can't get 4 reps, so we could see them both. Or someone else, maybe.

Edit: So the real answer is Alm.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I personally see Marth, Ike, Roy, and Chrom easily being in the next game. Though whether or not it would be worth it is debatable, considering there is only so much you can do with 4 similar characters.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Oooooooh you. I wouldn't be too disappointed whatever the outcome. I like Chrom from what I've seen of him, I would welcome Roy back too, or we could have both (however unlikely, this is my favorite option).

As long as Ike stays put. Which seems to be a lock from what I've read on the last page or so.


And if all four show up, I would not be worried about them being too similar at all. I've seen some great propositions for both Chrom and Roy.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Personally, I'd like to see Ike stay since he sort of represents the slow heavy hitting sword fighter. I wouldn't be too upset with Roy coming back since I maimed both Marth and Roy back in SSBM. However, I really want Chrom to appear. I like his character design, he represents one of the fastest selling FE game in the FE franchise history, and he is a descendent from Marth. While that might not seem much, that would create some interesting possibilities with Event Matches, Story Mode, and gameplay (much like Mario and Luigi).

 

[FlareHabanero]

Speaking of event matches, I'd imagine a lot of interesting event matches with a large amount of characters. Mainly the ones that pairs up a certain group of characters and you have to fight them.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Personally, I'd like to see Ike stay since he sort of represents the slow heavy hitting sword fighter. I wouldn't be too upset with Roy coming back since I maimed both Marth and Roy back in SSBM. However, I really want Chrom to appear. I like his character design, he represents one of the fastest selling FE game in the FE franchise history, and he is a descendent from Marth. While that might not seem much, that would create some interesting possibilities with Event Matches, Story Mode, and gameplay (much like Mario and Luigi).

Oh my goodness I love that typo.

But yeah, I sympathize. I think Awakening is where I'll really be jumping into the series, so I'll probably come to love Chrom, but on the other hand, dat Roy DLC design.

I don't think asking for both is that greedy. Not at all.

For some reason I like the idea of an Event Match with Chrom and Lucas vs. Marth and Ness. Future vs. Past.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I wouldn't be too upset with Roy coming back since I maimed both Marth and Roy back in SSBM.

OwO. You murderer!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

well we gotta remember that the original Smash was really all about the main characters of the time. the main staples of the series, the protaganists, the heroes. Pokemon really doesn't have a real protagonist unless you count the trainer who was probably deemed unfeasable at the time if he was ever even considered. Pikachu had to get in because...well c'mon. but at the time Jigglypuff was as popular as Pikachu, at least in Japan at the time. plus she was a neat little joke character to some people.

Jigglypuff was nowhere near a staple Pokemon, so... no. It was supposed to be Mewtwo, but Japanese popularity beat it. And Mewtwo was a much more relevant important character, especially having atleast one movie based upon it. Jigglypuff was never a "main" character either. Just a recurring one instead.(she was about as relevant as Nurse Joy/Officer Jenny, albeit, showing up even less)

The rest do apply, but let's also remember that Ganondorf would not have made it in if it wasn't for the added clones. Zelda only got in because Sheik was better at fighting, and it would make no sense to disclude her main form. Overall, it wasn't that case. Popularity determined it, and technically, there was far more Zelda games than Pokemon games at that time, further proving that amount of games is entirely irrelevant to roster selection. For instant, R.O.B. has more games than Ness or Lucas. (remember, they only appear in one game each in the Mother series, and at best Ness might be mentioned in Mother 3, I can't remember that one)

My entire point is that current number of games in your series does not mean anything for how many characters are selected. At best it might make you more noticeable. Ice Climbers is a good example of why it's so irrelevant. As for Kid Icarus, I see no reason for it to not get a second character. I'd still say Magnus is the most likely now. Palutena is a reasonable choice, though. Medusa... eh, I want her the most, but I'm not banking on her.

Oh and Pokemon has 45 games now not including all the double releases like Red/Blue etc or the PC games. at least im pretty sure, i counted em like 3 times and i keep feeling like i forgot one.

Which, as said, isn't very relevant to who gets in. Promoted characters are more important than number of games.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I don't think there really is a such thing as a "staple" Pokemon since there are so many of them

The focus of the games aren't just on one or a few Pokemon, but catching all of the Pokemon in general

If anything, all of the Pokemon are "staples" of the series

 

[Deleted member]

@Tri: Not nearly as flashy I thought it'd be. But then again, Smash could soup that up. Strange thing is that he's using a spear, not a lance....or are they one and the same in Fire Emblem?

 

[Reyson]

@Tri: Not nearly as flashy I thought it'd be. But then again, Smash could soup that up. Strange thing is that he's using a spear, not a lance....or are they one and the same in Fire Emblem?

They are considered in the same category, spears or javelins are ranged weapons and lances are the melee versions. Spears and javelins CAN be used in melee but will do inferior damage.

 

[3Bismyname]

Jigglypuff was nowhere near a staple Pokemon, so... no. It was supposed to be Mewtwo, but Japanese popularity beat it. And Mewtwo was a much more relevant important character, especially having atleast one movie based upon it. Jigglypuff was never a "main" character either. Just a recurring one instead.(she was about as relevant as Nurse Joy/Officer Jenny, albeit, showing up even less)


Which, as said, isn't very relevant to who gets in. Promoted characters are more important than number of games.

i did say that Pokemon doesn't have a nesesary have a staple therefore the ones who get in are based on popularity more than anything. which as you said, she got in cause she was more popular than other pokemon available at the time. hell she was on the front of that Airplane back in 1998.

and the amount of games thing was just me saying it just because you decided to list every Zelda game, i wasn't trying to say that the amount of games are really mattered i was just saying it to be saying it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think there really is a such thing as a "staple" Pokemon since there are so many of them

The focus of the games aren't just on one or a few Pokemon, but catching all of the Pokemon in general

If anything, all of the Pokemon are "staples" of the series

Not really.

The most promoted ones are treated as the important ones.

Pikachu and Jigglypuff and the only current staple Pokemon in Smash, and Pikachu is a full staple Pokemon in the entire series. Some generations have staple mons, those who specifically will be in one way or another. Until 5th Gen, Zubat, Geodude, and Tentacool were staple mons that show up in all games no matter what.

And they're in those games too. :/

@3Bismyname: Pikachu is the overall staple Pokemon. Some are staples of a certain Generation, however. Or try to be.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The popular pokemon of each generation is never the pokemon I like from that generation...

A staple of a game means that if the pokemon was taken out, the game wouldn't feel the same.

I can live without running into lucario or zozoark.

 

[Deleted member]

Jigglypuff shows up at some point in each version.
By your definition, it's a staple Pokemon.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well Jigglypuff does appear in that Pokemon Conquest game you seem to have a fetish for, so she must be a staple of the series.

 

[Deleted member]

Question. What are we even arguing about? And how is it in any form relevant to the Roster? How does "a Pokemon Being a staple" relate to who gets in and who doesn't? It doesn't take a deep analysis to be able to figure out who has a shot and who doesn't, just a bit of common sense.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Blame it on HyperFalcon.

Works for me.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Reyson]

I don't get why we're talking about these

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I don't get why we're talking about these

Now, see, I thought we were talking about this:

Spoiler

Speaking of which, has anyone ever actually seen a Staples? I see lots of commercials for them, but I've never actually seen one IRL.

 

[Opossum]

I live right by two of them...and yet have never seen a Jack-in-the-Box or Arby's.

Anyway, it seems my new roster got lost in the heat of the argument *shameless plug to stay on topic*

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

OwO. You murderer!

Lol. They got it coming to them
ψ(｀∇´)ψ

 

[Deleted member]

I've been making a comprehensive list of Nintendo games since Brawl that do not have a character to represent the series that are NOT Japan exclusive (save for one honorable mention) due to Sakurai's stance on Japan exclusives. Feel free to add to the list, as there may be ones I have forgotten.

Series represented with an Assist Trophy:

-Animal Crossing: City Folk
-Animal Crossing: New Leaf

-Excitebots: Trick Racing (Part of the Excite franchise along with Excitebike and Excitetrucks)
-Excitebike: World Rally

-Punch-Out!! (Wii)

-The Legendary Starfy

-Sin and Punishment: Star Successor

-Golden Sun: Dark Dawn

-Jam with the Band

-Nintendogs + Cats

Series released prior to Brawl that don't have Assists:

-Rhythm Heaven
-Rhythm Heaven Fever

-Wii Music
-Wii Sports Resort
-Wii Fit Plus
-Wii Chess
-Wii Party
-Wii Play: Motion
-Wii Fit U

-Glory of Heracles

-Pilotwings Resort

-Brain Age: Concentration Training

-Another Code: R – A Journey into Lost Memories (Trace Memory)

New series that debuted after Brawl:

-Disaster: Day of Crisis

-Xenoblade Chronicles

-The Last Story

-Pandora's Tower

-FlingSmash

-Fossil Fighters
-Fossil Fighters Champions

-Steel Diver

-The Wonderful 101

-Dillon's Rolling Western
-Dillon's Rolling Western 2: The Last Ranger (implied; not actually confirmed)

-Pushmo
-Crashmo

-Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword

-Nintendo Land (Features attractions for Animal Crossing, Murasame Castle, and Balloon Fight, series without playable characters)

-HONORABLE MENTION: Captain Rainbow (Another series like Smash that crossed over various Nintendo series newer and older.)

Other:

-Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games
-Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 London Games

The reason these two are listed are merely to mention that it shouldn't be surprising if Sonic gets another character, due to there being a full series revolving around the Mario franchise and the Sonic franchise crossing over.

As for the others, I will evalute my personal thoughts and beliefs in regards to how likely a character from each series is at a later time.

 

[yani]

Very nice list, you should probably post this in the BR for future reference. Steel Diver is also a new Nintendo IP, but I don't think it has a character to offer. Possibly an AT?

 

[3Bismyname]

I don't feel like addressing all the series that everyone already argues. (Golden Sun, Sin and Punishment, Punch Out etc.)

well looking at that list it kinda looks like the Hero from Fossil Fighter's might make a good new series character considering they already have gotten 2 games since Brawl. i can see him working but idk maybe just an assist trophy would work just fine.

Some series don't really have any characters (like Rhythm Heaven, Nintendogs/cats, Pilotwings Resort etc.) so it's fair to say they won't get a character.


with all the games released starring Mii's before and after Brawl i think their inclusion would be justified.

a bunch of the other games i don't know to much about so i won't even bother commenting on em.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Rhythm Heaven is one of the most significant series to grow into itself since Brawl. If everyone could get their heads out of the "DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR THAT CHARACTER TO FIGHT" nonsense, then there could be some interesting discussion about how to make a character from that series work, or from any great series that people deem as "not fit for a playable character."

Marshal is the name of the little white fellow that was in Glee Club on Rhythm Heaven DS, and he served as a tutorial guide in Fever. He's pretty eponymous with regards to the Rhythm Heaven series. He'd make a great, fun, quirky character.

RH is very much a character-driven series, it's just not really defined by one particular person. But if I could pick one, it'd be Marshal.

RH is just too great a series to be shunned completely, which I'm sure won't happen. A stage would be awesome, but it still wouldn't do the series justice. I imagine a character who deals more damage when you time his attacks to the rhythm of the song currently playing would be fun and unique.

 

[3Bismyname]

Bro calm down. I didn't say anything about a character having to be known for fighting. I just put in my two cents on the series presented. I think rh could make for a nice stage or assist trophy. But character wise im just not seein it

 

[Reyson]

Rhythm Heaven is one of the most significant series to grow into itself since Brawl. If everyone could get their heads out of the "DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR THAT CHARACTER TO FIGHT" nonsense, then there could be some interesting discussion about how to make a character from that series work, or from any great series that people deem as "not fit for a playable character."

Marshal is the name of the little white fellow that was in Glee Club on Rhythm Heaven DS, and he served as a tutorial guide in Fever. He's pretty eponymous with regards to the Rhythm Heaven series. He'd make a great, fun, quirky character.

RH is very much a character-driven series, it's just not really defined by one particular person. But if I could pick one, it'd be Marshal.

RH is just too great a series to be shunned completely, which I'm sure won't happen. A stage would be awesome, but it still wouldn't do the series justice. I imagine a character who deals more damage when you time his attacks to the rhythm of the song currently playing would be fun and unique.

Maybe you should make a support thread for it, I imagine a lot of us simply haven't played the game or know what it's about. I'm definitely up for a more unique character like that one.

 

[Deleted member]

Added Steel Diver and The Wonderful 101 (can't believe I forgot that one) to the list.

In the case for Marshal, yes, he seems to be like the Wario (WarioWare) of Rhythm Heaven Fever, but by research, I only see Fever as the one he was in. There were other characters that looked like him, yes, but he himself was only in Fever.
If Rhythm Heaven were to get a character, I would bet more on Karate Joe, as he and his game were featured in all of the Rhythm Heaven titles so far and he's clearly fighter material, being a martial artist. That being said, I don't think Rhythm Heaven is going to get a character, and it's not for the "nonsense" about the characters being unable to fight (as again, Karate Joe). It's the fact that there's really no one to add that makes absolute sense from a logical standpoint.
I'm not saying the series hasn't done enough to warrant a character, but I'm saying characters shouldn't be added willy-nilly just to give such and such a series a character.

This is also why I don't think Fossil Fighters will get a character. From a logical standpoint, there's little to work with that makes absolute sense.
There is the Pokemon Trainer route, and go with the original Fossil Fighter (named Hunter in the manga), but that would just rip off Pokemon Trainer's gimmick but using Vivosaurs. Speaking of the Vivosaurs, we can't even go the Pikachu route and add the mascot, T-Rex, as the it's a frigging 50 ft beast of destruction (well, 42 ft, but still). At least Ridley has been small before and changes size practically every game he's in.
And even the starting Vivosaur of the original game, Spinax, is rather large (29 ft).
Pretty much, all the notable Vivosaurs are either large, not the right build for Smash, or both. Save for maybe the legendary chicken Vivosaurs which are around Lucario's size. Though a random chicken from a series that is about dinosaur like creatures would seem very strange.

And another thing, despite the game featuring Miis as main characters, Pilotwings Resort is part of a series which had main characters in the other two titles. Most notably Pilotwings 64 (as Meca Hawk, a robotic doppelganger of the character Hawk from 64, appears in a cameo in Resort). Lark (the supposed main character of 64) would be an interesting addition to Smash. The likelyhood of that happening though is quite slim.

 

[lobotheduck21]

I think you forgot magical starsign

 

[Deleted member]

I think you forgot magical starsign

Came out long before Brawl. Why do you think there are stickers and trophies of it?