Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Vintage Creep]

Because unlike generic enemies like Goomba and Octorok and even Space Pirate, Waddle Dee has actually been playable in a main (not a spin-off) Kirby game where he's one of the four protagonists - the other three are already in Smash.

And besides the only Space Pirate most fans want is Ridley so there you go.

Yeah OK but he would just be too similar to Kirby if you ask me. Even for Toad, a trophy or being Peach's move it's enough for me.

Or anyway, Smash 4 has more important characters to take in. A lot more. Maybe in the next one, but for the fourth/fifth installments, three reps for Kirby are enough if you ask me.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Because unlike generic enemies like Goomba and Octorok and even Space Pirate, Waddle Dee has actually been playable in a main (not a spin-off) Kirby game where he's one of the four protagonists - the other three are already in Smash.

And also because SPEARCOPTER.

 

[Reyson]

Because unlike generic enemies like Goomba and Octorok and even Space Pirate, Waddle Dee has actually been playable in a main (not a spin-off) Kirby game where he's one of the four protagonists - the other three are already in Smash.

And besides the only Space Pirate most fans want is Ridley so there you go.

Kirby really doesn't need a 4th character, the current roster has all interesting characters from the franchise.

 

[jigglover]

IMO, I think that, based on their latest significant appearances and roles in major titles, these may be the most likely newcomers (not saying shoe-in) whether we like it or not.

- Balloon Fighter (attraction in Nintendo Land)
- Krom (new protagonist of Fire Emblem: Awakening)
- Little Mac (revived franchise with star treatment unlike other popular franchises like Golden Sun, Sin & Punishment, Starfy, etc.)
- Mii (playable roles in various Wii/3DS games)
- Palutena (major supporting character in Kid Icarus: Uprising)
- Ridley (major antagonist in Metroid: Other M)
- Takamaru (playable guest character in Samurai Warriors 3 and attraction in Nintendo Land)
- Toad (playable roles in New Super Mario Bros. Wii/U)
- Waddle Dee (playable role in Kirby's Return to Dream Land)
- Zoroark (usually the most-promoted 5th gen Pokemon)

Anyone else might get in due to disproportionately high fan demand (King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Mewtwo, etc.), third-party relations (Pac-Man, Mega Man, Slime, etc.), unique moveset potential or for the lulz (Muddy Mole, Starfy, Duck Hunt Dog, etc.)

Bolded the ones that have a chance of getting in.
Like SSBF, Toad and Zoroark have several obstacles they need to over-come to get into smash, and the likelihood of them doing so (especially for Zoroark) is quite little.

 

[hugemariofan]

My FINAL prediction roster:

Mario
Luigi*
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr/Shadow Mario
Waluigi*

Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K Rool

Yoshi
Kamek*

Link
Zelda/Shiek
Ganondorf*
Ghirahim*
Impa
Vaati*

Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Bandana Dee*

Pikachu
Trainer
Meowth
Jigglypuff*
Zoroark*
Mewtwo*

Marth*
Ike
Lyn
Krom*

Pit
Palutena

Captain Falcon*
Samurai Goroh*

Ness*
Lucas
Claus*

Fox
Falco*
Wolf*
Krystal

Olimar

Wario

Saki*
Issac
Shulk*

R.O.B.*
Mr.Game and Watch*
Little Mac
Takamaru
Duck Hunt Dog*
Ice Climbers

Snake*
Sonic*
Megaman*
Mickey Mouse*
Pac-Man*
Ryu Hayabusa*
Travis Touchdown*

 

[hugemariofan]

Forgot to mention something: Toon Link is not completely gone, he's just a costume for Link

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Forgot to mention something: Toon Link is not completely gone, he's just a costume for Link

You replaced Toon Link with a one-shot villain, a minor, barely recurring villain, and Impa? FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

 

[hugemariofan]

You replaced Toon Link with a one-shot villain, a minor, barely recurring villain, and Impa? FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

He's not COMPLETELY replaced he's a costume for Link, and his name would still be Toon Link and he would sound like Toon Link, I just think it's a waste of space having another version of the same character even if they do have different personalities and/or have a different moveset

 

[evilsmashbrosfan]

Not this bullsh*t again.

Point me to a quote where Sakurai or anyone working on Sm4sh says that the roster will be the same size as Brawls. Not that quote where he says the roster has reached its limit, which is an incredibly vague statement that could be referring to a number of things. Until you can do that, please, no more of this "no new characters" or "roster will be the same size" BS.

“There is a charm to games that have huge casts of playable characters, but they tend to have issues with game balance and it becomes difficult to fine tune each character and have them all feel distinctive” Sakurai told Nintendo Power magazine, talking about fighting games in general. He added, “we have probably already reached the limit of what’s feasible. A change of direction may be what’s needed”.

There.

Dont forget that Namco is developing it,that they have to create pretty much or mostly everything from scratch on their engines and stuffs,that there`s a potential 5-7 years gap between Brawl and the new one,that they`re making it for 2 different systems at the same time and that the Namco games who got massive rosters got there because they slowly built their rosters across several games so they could achieve a massive roster.Plus,dont forget all the arenas,items,assists trophies and pokeballs assists that they have to create.

So yeah,40 characters is probably the limit of what they can achieve and even then they`ll have to cut people to make room for newcommers.

If Capcom would have made this game i could assure you that rosters posted here would be more realistic because they focus their money into having a large amount of characters.So,maybe in Smash Bros 5 or something.

 

[lobotheduck21]

He's not COMPLETELY replaced he's a costume for Link, and his name would still be Toon Link and he would sound like Toon Link, I just think it's a waste of space having another version of the same character even if they do have different personalities and/or have a different moveset

One problem with that is the hitbox

 

[Robert of Normandy]

He's not COMPLETELY replaced he's a costume for Link, and his name would still be Toon Link and he would sound like Toon Link, I just think it's a waste of space having another version of the same character even if they do have different personalities and/or have a different moveset

I like Toonie's moveset. Superficial similarities aside, he and Link play VERY differently from one another. So no, just making him an alternate costume wouldn't be good enough. It's not even a case where it could work as an alternate stance, since Toon Link is shorter than regular Link, so he' need all new animations and different hitboxes, so he'd basically be his own character anyway.

“There is a charm to games that have huge casts of playable characters, but they tend to have issues with game balance and it becomes difficult to fine tune each character and have them all feel distinctive” Sakurai told Nintendo Power magazine, talking about fighting games in general. He added, “we have probably already reached the limit of what’s feasible. A change of direction may be what’s needed”.

That's exactly the quote I said not to use. Where in that quote does he specifically say "the roster will be the exact same size as it was in Brawl"?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

My FINAL prediction roster:
Mickey Mouse*
Ryu Hayabusa*
Travis Touchdown*

While the last two are slightly possible, no one is ever going to take you seriously when you add Mickey Mouse into a prediction roster. Mickey, Epic Mickey, King Mickey, Hyper Ultra Mickey, Robo Mickey, Mickey in any form will not be in Smash Bros.

Period.

 

[evilsmashbrosfan]

That's exactly the quote I said not to use. Where in that quote does he specifically say "the roster will be the exact same size as it was in Brawl"?

I remember during the Brawl`s days when Sakurai said that he made Brawl like it was the last game in the series and people through that Smash Bros would cease to exist after it,which was false but some through so because of the way he interpreted it.It`s the same situation here,except that most people ignored it because they wont accept it if the roster doesn`t increase in size like the paterns of the 3 games.

If you want proofs of people`s reactions to a roster that`s smaller,just look at my roster;people hated it and said that i was troll when in reality i simply made a roster based on what Sakurai said.Dont hate if the final roster cut a good chunk of the cast from Brawl and remplace some characters as well.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

stuff

You still haven't answered my question. You tried to use that quote as proof that there would be massive roster cuts, but you haven't explained to me what you see in the quote that without a doubt proves that.

 

[hugemariofan]

While the last two are slightly possible, no one is ever going to take you seriously when you add Mickey Mouse into a prediction roster. Mickey, Epic Mickey, King Mickey, Hyper Ultra Mickey, Robo Mickey, Mickey in any form will not be in Smash Bros.

Period.

Hey you never know...It might happen

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Hey you never know...It might happen

No, it won't. Sakurai has specifically said that a character must have originated, not simply appeared, in a video game.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey you never know...It might happen

You know what else might happen? We might get Godzilla too.
I hear he's pretty famous.

 

[hugemariofan]

No, it won't. Sakurai has specifically said that a character must have originated, not simply appeared, in a video game.

Well...Epic Mickey had a neat looking design of Mickey, he had badass moves, and the game sold over 2 million copies, and won over 15 awards, he might make an exception for him

 

[Deleted member]

Well...Epic Mickey had a neat looking design of Mickey, he had badass moves, and the game sold over 2 million copies, and won over 15 awards, he might make an exception for him

My penis would have more of a chance than Mickey.

The only way Mickey were to ever have even a REMOTE shot at the game, is if Disney themselves contacted Sakurai about it.

I highly doubt Disney gives a ratatouille's *** about Smash Bros., ESPECIALLY since they didn't want their characters fighting in a Kingdom Hearts fighting game (which turned into FF Dissidia), and even if they DID contact Sakurai about it, he's very likely to say no solely because Mickey did not originate in a video game. So why would he pay them to be able to use a character he doesn't want?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Well...Epic Mickey had a neat looking design of Mickey, he had badass moves, and the game sold over 2 million copies, and won over 15 awards, he might make an exception for him

I....I just...what is this I don't even? You had better be trolling.

 

[hugemariofan]

You guys don't know if it will happen or not it's not even close to being finished, it could happen

 

[Deleted member]

Given that

a) Sakurai gave specific guidelines in regards to guest characters, which Mickey breaks for not originating in a video game.
b) Disney is anal about having their characters in fighting games.

It has as much chance as happening as Mario being removed from the game.
So deal with it and stop being a deluded fanboy desperately clinging on to hope that simply isn't there.

 

[hugemariofan]

Given that

a) Sakurai gave specific guidelines in regards to guest characters, which Mickey breaks for not originating in a video game.
b) Disney is anal about having their characters in fighting games.

It has as much chance as happening as Mario being removed from the game.
So deal with it and stop being a deluded fanboy desperately clinging on to hope that simply isn't there.

Why do you act like you know it's not gonna happen? You clearly don't he could change his mind only on Mickey since his game on the wii was a success

 

[Deleted member]

Why do you act like you know it's going to happen?

You clearly don't, as you don't know jack **** about how characters are chosen.

Sakurai doesn't look to sales to determine characters, let alone guest characters LET ALONE guest characters that don't follow his guidelines.

If you really think that a single "successful" game is going to make Sakurai ignore his own guidelines for guest characters and his beliefs that they shouldn't be added "willy-nilly", you have no hope and your tears will be delicious when you realize you were dead wrong and made a complete fool of yourself.

Your complete ignorance and the "he could change his mind" bull**** has no place on these boards.
Especially since it is also up to Disney. If they wouldn't allow a Kingdom Hearts fighting game, what makes you think they would try to get one of their characters in Nintendo's fighting game? You'd have to be a complete imbecile to think it would happen.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Why do you act like you know it's not gonna happen? You clearly don't he could change his mind only on Mickey since his game on the wii was a success

There is something called reality.

For example, I would love to see Nightmare from SoulCaliber playable. I think he would be awesome, well-received, and have an impact in the game. However, I know his chances are slim due to Pac Mac being the frontrunner for a possible Namco rep, the negative fan response of a Tekken/SoulCaliber rep being playable, the general lack of demand for the character, and the difficulty of getting the rights for a 3rd party character. Despite that, I would love to see Nightmare. In fact, he is my Number 1 3rd party character I would like to see. However, for the reasons I gave, I leave him out of my prediction roster. Because it is a prediction roster. I do not predict he will be playable. Yet you predicted Mickey Mouse will be playable. That is a prediction that you are willin gto stand by for yet it has some many things against it.

Wanting Mickey ****ing Mouse in Smash is not a justifiable argument for his inclusion. Epic Mickey has tons of odds to overcome. For starters:

1) He originates from a 4th party character. It would be like adding a video game version of Spiderman into Smash.

2) Compared to other 3rd party characters, he has zero demand. Hell, Nightmare probably has more demand than Epic Mickey.

3) Disney owns him. The guy who is in Konami/MGS (I forgot his name) is a personal friend of Sakurai's and begged him to include Snake in Melee. Sonic got in due to sheer popular demand and even that was almost not enough for Sonic to be included. Looking at those for a basis, it is safe to assume that for a 3rd party character to be included, the company has to personally come to Sakurai. Bearing that in mind....

4) Both Disney and Sakurai has inflated egos. I doubt Disney really cares to see Epic Mickey in Smash, especially if he has next to no fan demand. The director of Tales has shown interest in including a Tales character. However, that doesn't mean that a Tales character will necessarily get a spot.

5) 3rd party slots is a hot commodity. It is also not guaranteed we will even get 3rd party characters this time around. Bearing that in mind, 3rd party characters that are important to gaming and Nintendo's history are given priority.

6) Sakurai's feelings on 3rd party characters. Sakurai said that he does not intend to add 3rd party characters willy-nilly. Additionally, there has to be fan support, Nintendo's support, and the home companies support in order to get the character in. Additionally, it takes a lot of effort, paper work, legalizing, and licensing in order to get a 3rd party character in. Nintendo has a huge amount of characters and franchises to choose from whereas PSASBR Sony Smash Bros. hardly has any thus 3rd party characters is a major focus. Smash Bros. would work perfectly fine without 3rd party characters. It did for the first two games but just ebcause Brawl added two, people think we need more.

I am curious how you think Mickey Mouse will be included into Smash 4. How do you think Sakurai would go about getting the rights for Mickey. Instead of just blatantly stating "It could happen...", provide some hardcore facts and logic into what you argue. Otherwise, people are just going to laugh at you.

 

[Deleted member]

Guys, Hannah Montana had a game for the DS that sold more than 1 million copies.
CLEARLY she's going to be in the game! Sakurai could change his mind, after all. We don't have a fighter that primarily sings. (Jigglypuff only sings for one attack and that's just a lullaby).

 

[hugemariofan]

There is something called reality.

For example, I would love to see Nightmare from SoulCaliber playable. I think he would be awesome, well-received, and have an impact in the game. However, I know his chances are slim due to Pac Mac being the frontrunner for a possible Namco rep, the negative fan response of a Tekken/SoulCaliber rep being playable, the general lack of demand for the character, and the difficulty of getting the rights for a 3rd party character. Despite that, I would love to see Nightmare. In fact, he is my Number 1 3rd party character I would like to see. However, for the reasons I gave, I leave him out of my prediction roster. Because it is a prediction roster. I do not predict he will be playable. Yet you predicted Mickey Mouse will be playable. That is a prediction that you are willin gto stand by for yet it has some many things against it.

Wanting Mickey ****ing Mouse in Smash is not a justifiable argument for his inclusion. Epic Mickey has tons of odds to overcome. For starters:

1) He originates from a 4th party character. It would be like adding a video game version of Spiderman into Smash.

2) Compared to other 3rd party characters, he has zero demand. Hell, Nightmare probably has more demand than Epic Mickey.

3) Disney owns him. The guy who is in Konami/MGS (I forgot his name) is a personal friend of Sakurai's and begged him to include Snake in Melee. Sonic got in due to sheer popular demand and even that was almost not enough for Sonic to be included. Looking at those for a basis, it is safe to assume that for a 3rd party character to be included, the company has to personally come to Sakurai. Bearing that in mind....

4) Both Disney and Sakurai has inflated egos. I doubt Disney really cares to see Epic Mickey in Smash, especially if he has next to no fan demand. The director of Tales has shown interest in including a Tales character. However, that doesn't mean that a Tales character will necessarily get a spot.

5) 3rd party slots is a hot commodity. It is also not guaranteed we will even get 3rd party characters this time around. Bearing that in mind, 3rd party characters that are important to gaming and Nintendo's history are given priority.

6) Sakurai's feelings on 3rd party characters. Sakurai said that he does not intend to add 3rd party characters willy-nilly. Additionally, there has to be fan support, Nintendo's support, and the home companies support in order to get the character in. Additionally, it takes a lot of effort, paper work, legalizing, and licensing in order to get a 3rd party character in. Nintendo has a huge amount of characters and franchises to choose from whereas PSASBR Sony Smash Bros. hardly has any thus 3rd party characters is a major focus. Smash Bros. would work perfectly fine without 3rd party characters. It did for the first two games but just ebcause Brawl added two, people think we need more.

I am curious how you think Mickey Mouse will be included into Smash 4. How do you think Sakurai would go about getting the rights for Mickey. Instead of just blatantly stating "It could happen...", provide some hardcore facts and logic into what you argue. Otherwise, people are just going to laugh at you.

Mickey has gotten fan demand

 

[Deleted member]

I'm afraid your basement friends aren't enough "fan demand".
I swear, if you try to compare meager fan support you pull out from nowhere to the sheer demand Sonic had, you are beyond saving.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Mickey has gotten fan demand

So Mickey Mouse has some fan demand (and by some I mean a handful of supporters) but nowhere near the size of characters such as Mega Man, Pac Man, a Final Fantasy character, Geno (if you consider him 3rd party), a Tales character, or a Dragon Quest character.

3-4 is a generally accepted number of 3rd party characters. Considering Sonic and Snake return, that gives us two more characters to work with. Mega Man is the second most requested 3rd party character, Sakurai has possibly hinted at working with Capcom, and Capcom has shown interest in including Mega Man. Capcom knows that fans WANT Mega Man. Then we have one more spot and, considering Namco is working on Smash, it is entirely likely that a namco character will be added. Pac Man is generally agreed ot be the most likeliest. While he doesn't have as much fan demand than Sonic or Mega Man, he has much more demand than Mickey Mouse. If Sonic and/or Snake does not return, that leaves us 3-4 new possible 3rd party characters. I would then bet characters from Square-Enix, Ubisoft, or Tecmo would be considered; if they come to Sakurai.

hugemariofan, I am still interested how you propose that would go about including Epic Mickey. What hoops will they have to jump through.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Indiana Jones, Spiderman, and Scarface will be in Super Smash Bros. because me and some basement goblins stated so, and if you disagree your going to be sorry because I'm the king of right and your a jar of spicy brown failure! I WILL HAVE THE LAST CHORTLES IN THE ENDINGS!

Spoiler

...It's legit I swear, my father works for Naughty Dog.

 

[Deleted member]

Guys, hugemariofan is a troll. Don't respond to him, report him and get him banned. Onto more meaningful discussion...

@Venus: I don't think Namco working with Nintendo means anything for Pac-Man's chances.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Guys, hugemariofan is a troll. Don't respond to him, report him and get him banned. Onto more meaningful discussion...

@Venus: I don't think Namco working with Nintendo means anything for Pac-Man's chances.

We don't know for sure what will come from Namco working with Sakurai's team. However, if both Namco and Sakurai would like to include a Namco 3rd party character, I feel Pac Man would be the most likeliest choice given his history with gaming, history in Nintendo; especially Mario Kart, and his mascot/face of Namco status.

However, at this point, we can't say for sure if Sakurai will include a Namco rep and, if they do, it will be Pac Man. I just think his chances are much better than some other Namco characters (and Mickey Mouse).

 

[FlareHabanero]

Namco and Nintendo do seem to have a close relationship with each other to the point of being Namco developing several games for Nintendo, with the exception of Pac-man vs which was the other way around.

 

[3Bismyname]

ive always been pro Pac-man for those reasons among others. (mostly personal bias). and yeah it would make sense that if they were to use a Namco rep it should be the face of the company. like how Sonic is to Sega or Megaman is/was to Capcom. it's kind of why i've thought Square might not get involved in SSB at least this time around considering Cloud is pretty much the face of their company and he has had nothing to do with Nintendo.

 

[hugemariofan]

We don't know for sure what will come from Namco working with Sakurai's team. However, if both Namco and Sakurai would like to include a Namco 3rd party character, I feel Pac Man would be the most likeliest choice given his history with gaming, history in Nintendo; especially Mario Kart, and his mascot/face of Namco status.

However, at this point, we can't say for sure if Sakurai will include a Namco rep and, if they do, it will be Pac Man. I just think his chances are much better than some other Namco characters (and Mickey Mouse).

Mickey and Pac-Man both have the same chances

 

[3Bismyname]

Mickey and Pac-Man both have the same chances

ppppppffffffffffffffffttttttttttttttahahahahahahahahaha
god im crying a little im laughing so hard

 

[SmasherMaster]

Mickey and Pac-Man both have the same chances

Just like how Ridley and Toadette have the same chances.

Or King K Rool and Baby Daisy

Or Palutena and Weedle

I just can't say this with a straight face.

 

[hugemariofan]

He's actually a cartoon character who doesn't have a very low chance

 

[3Bismyname]

and that's where he loses his chances. He's a cartoon character. he did not originate in a video games. and sure he has one successful game with possibly two by the time SSB4 comes out. but the fact that he is a cartoon character first and foremost make him ineligible.

 

[hugemariofan]

and that's where he loses his chances. He's a cartoon character. he did not originate in a video games. and sure he has one successful game with possibly two by the time SSB4 comes out. but the fact that he is a cartoon character first and foremost make him ineligible.

Epic Mickey made him elligible because there's a lot of people who want him