Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well, it's my kind of service.

 

[ChronoBound]

He has his supporters. Not saying it is the largest base in the world, but they exist. Honestly I've run into more people outside of the forums that are more favorable to him. Then again, most casual players I run into only ask for characters from Mario, Donkey Kong, Sonic or other various third party series.

As Shorie said earlier, most of the people that like Bandana Dee are people that played Return to Dream Land. The problem is that Return to Dream Land was a Wii game released in late 2011, and it basically flew under the radar in the West since the gaming press was basically like "oh look its another Kirby game. yawn". When you bring up "Wii" and "Kirby" in the same sentence, most people think of Epic Yarn, which is unfortunate considering how much superior a Kirby game Return to Dream Land. Its easily the best Kirby game since Sakurai left HAL.

People deride Bandana Dee as a generic enemy, however, he is clearly a character with his own identity, and is being positioned as a major character for the franchise alongside the three Brawl Kirby characters (just look at Kirby's Dream Collection).

There is definitely support for him out there, but considering far more people did not play Return to Dream Land than did, those unfamiliar him just get agitated about the idea of Kirby series equivalent of a Goomba/Toad getting a playable spot.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I played Return to dreamland, and I'm not really a Bandana Dee supporter.

TBH, I'd rather have some form of Dark Matter as a character.

Kirby has had a Dark Matter ally before.

I realize Sakurai didn't do the games with Dark Matter, but they are also some of my favorite in the series

 

[Deleted member]

If things keep working as they've been for the series, I suppose Magolor and Galacta Knight could end up being the "5th" and "6th" major Kirby characters.
The former being a reformed helper as of Dream Collection, and the latter appearing inexplicably appearing constantly as a hidden boss.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Galacta Knight is cool and all, but I think he's too similar to Meta Knight.

I think Marx should return as a recurring villain.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Knuckle Joe seems like a decent choice for a rep.
Bandanna Dee seems bland to me, but i can understand why people like him.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think Bandana Dee is basically the Kirby series equivalent of Krystal. Both characters were not made (or made prominent) by the series creator. Both characters have higher favorability in a certain region (Bandana Dee in Japan, Krystal in the West). Both would probably bring a pointy stick if they showed up in Smash. Both have a lot of detractors and both hail from series where a lot of people don't want to see a newcomer (or rather see those series as already "complete"). Both are obviously next in line for their series if they get another playable character.

Also, let's take it a bit further,

Fox/Kirby: the main heroes for their series.
Falco/King Dedede: Two birds who are a shade of blue that have some sort of rivalry with the series hero (this one is the biggest stretch)
Wolf/Meta Knight: Characters introduced in their series second installment, and started out as antagonists, but later became sort of anti-heroes.

 

[~automatic]

Kuma beat me to it, there's a whole lot. In fact, there are two variations of the power up gimmick. I made an entire thread dedicated to exploring the different 'archetypes' in fighters. Check it out, it's called "Character Archetypes in Fighting Games" or something like that. There's a number of neat ideas in rthat thread.

Link plz. I wanna see your thoughts on recurring archetypes.

 

[FalKoopa]

Link plz. I wanna see your thoughts on recurring archetypes.

Here you go.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=331574

 

[Shorts]

He has his supporters. Not saying it is the largest base in the world, but they exist. Honestly I've run into more people outside of the forums that are more favorable to him. Then again, most casual players I run into only ask for characters from Mario, Donkey Kong, Sonic or other various third party series.

Junior, King K. Rool, Tails, ect. Are what I always here from my younger cousins. (Casual Smash players) Then we have people who are older, who want Ghirahim, or Little Mac. (Older meaning they want characters from their Youth, and usually a Zelda character because most young kids I know cannot play LoZ)

I'm also terribad at LoZ, and I can never EVER get into the story because I take so long. I'm still at the first boss in SS, the second temple in Minish Cap, and the third temple in Spirit Tracks. I don't like the games. >.<

Galacta Knight is cool and all, but I think he's too similar to Meta Knight.

I think Marx should return as a recurring villain.

Bring Gooey back into the series, and he'll be the next Kirby character in Smash. Japan roves Gooey

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

That's why I mentioned a Dark Matter ally of kirby;s

Gooey is made of Dark Matter

 

[ChronoBound]

I'm also terribad at LoZ, and I can never EVER get into the story because I take so long. I'm still at the first boss in SS, the second temple in Minish Cap, and the third temple in Spirit Tracks. I don't like the games. >.<

Bring Gooey back into the series, and he'll be the next Kirby character in Smash. Japan roves Gooey

Considering that Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks are among the weakest installments in the Zelda series, I don't blame you. Minish Cap is very good though (though I would say A Link To The Past and Link's Awakening are better as far as 2D Zeldas go).

Also, Phantom Hourglass is even worse than Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks so don't get that if you ever consider to give the Zelda series another chance.

As for Gooey, the Japanese fanbase pretty much jumped on Waddle Dee as their preferred choice for a fourth Kirby character (Return to Dream Land had legs in Japan).

 

[Deleted member]

Given Gooey's lack of appendages, I really doubt that even if Gooey was the most requested Kirby character and one of the top requests for Newcomers in general, that Sakurai would even include him due to being "unfeasible".

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I think Sakurai is just jealous because he didn't make the dark matter games

Gooey could totally work

 

[~automatic]

Here you go.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=331574

Thanks buddy. =P

 

[Shorts]

Also, Phantom Hourglass is even worse than Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks so don't get that if you ever consider to give the Zelda series another chance.

Honestly, I enjoy the storylines enough, but I watched my brother play through SS, and really... the new species SUCK. Some of the levels are awful. But overall I think Skyward Sword is a nice refreshing LoZ game.

Random note: MM3D or ALttP3D?

 

[Vann Accessible]

Thanks for the welcome ManBearPig!

Hmmm I don't know. I'm banking on at least a few version exclusive characters. Do you really think the 3DS will have EVERY character the Wii U version does? There are space restrictions to think about.
Besides, I think having a few analogous characters per version makes sense. It gives each game a bit of uniqueness, and then there's still the possibility to transferring them with the connectivity Sakurai talked about.

As far as Girahim goes, I actually agree with you. In all honestly, I would rather see Skull Kid playable as a new Zelda rep, and one could argue Tingle has more merit as the most common reoccurring Zelda character. But Girahim is way more popular than Zant ever was. Girahim edges SK for simply the fact he has appeared more recently, and has general popularity over Tingle. People in the west haaaate Tingle.

If this hypothetical Majora's Mask remake ever arises, I'd withdraw Girahim for Skull Kid in a heartbeat.

 

[FalKoopa]

MM3D /10char.

 

[Moon Monkey]

That is a tough question...I want both... but i never played aLttP so I'd rather have that.

 

[peeup]

MM3D so we can have a MM Link in Sm4sh that changes forms.

 

[Oasis_S]

Slime needs to be in the game so Kirby can mistake him for Gooey. Though I don't think it would matter much if it was a mistake. They'd probably become friends anyhow. Easy enough to imagine Kirby picking Slime up and letting him ride on his back while Kirby finds food for the to eat for their picnic.

But mostly I just want Starphoenix to read by this and go "...k-kawaii~!"

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I think Sakurai is just jealous because he didn't make the dark matter games

Gooey could totally work

This. Those Kirby games were the darkest while the games he made were too soft and fluffy in comparison, minus Super Smash Bros.

 

[Deleted member]

Too soft and fluffy?
You're talking about the man that turned Meta Knight into a hostile dictator in the making, introduced the concept of true evil within the series (Nightmare came before Dark Matter, you know), and created Marx.
Sure, that's not as "dark" as exploding eyeballs and possession by darkness, but give him some credit. And at the very least, he had a role to play in Crystal Shards, as he provided Dedede's voice clips, so its not like he's purposely distancing himself from the Dark Matter Trilogy.

EDIT: If he was, there'd be no reference at all to the games, like Gooey being a trophy in Melee.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Oasis: But I seriously thought... (-´^´-)

Anyway Bandanna Dee's being discussed?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Anyway Bandanna Dee's being discussed?

At this point, I have no clue what is being discussed. But I guess we're talking about the Kirby series.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, with what Sakurai said about no series after Pikmin having a charatcer suitable as a fighter being a major point against Starfy, it is hard to imagine that a character with no limbs at all would be more feasible than that to him. So while the likes of Gooey and Slime can work in our minds, they may not necessarily work in his. (Inb4horsetailranting)

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Sakurai's voice does match Dedede very well unlike 4 Kids's Texan voice. Loved Revenge of Meta Knight since that was his best moment, though he was toned down in Ultra in terms of non-dark dialogue (stupid soccer moms). You're right about Nightmare because of his major role in Kirby of the Stars. The show made a good job at making him sound and look intimidating, then 4 Kids ruined it again in the West.

 

[peeup]

Honestly, with what Sakurai said about no series after Pikmin having a charatcer suitable as a fighter

Wait when did he say that? That sucks. So basically we're not getting any new IPs?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Yuui: I thought that was proven wrong or something?

PeeUp: Dunno, maybe it's more of post-Brawl franchises only get reps (though who knows Rhythm Heaven would be an exception)

 

[Shorts]

Meh, threw this together. He really writes his moveset himself. I only made the specials. I'm much too lazy to make an entire moveset.

B Waddle Doo blast: He uses the plasma blast that Waddle Doo uses, pretty simple.

B> Spear Throw: Bandana Dee does exactly that. This move is chargeable. The long her holds back this bad boy, the further (and faster) it will fly. If it's completely charged, three spears will be thrown. One far, one mid range, and one close to him.

B^ Spear Copter: This is pretty much like DK's Up B, but, he is raised much higher, and he has much less manuverabilty.

BV Spear placement: When on the ground, Dee will place a spear facing upward, acting as a "trap". These last for a certain amount of time, and he can have up to two on the feild at a time. When using this in the air, it acts like Kirby's down B. He points his spear downward and rapidly falls.


I would argue Krystal's much more prominent in the SF series than Bandana Dee is in the Kirby series. Also, Krystal's only not shown up in two StarFox games. She's been in more StarFox games than Andross, actually. (Theres SF, SF64, SFAd, SFAs, and SFC)

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If he's going to be using moves from other waddle variants, he should have an umbrella as well

 

[Shorts]

If he's going to be using moves from other waddle variants, he should have an umbrella as well

I thought that, but, Peach, you see.

 

[Big-Cat]

I would argue Krystal's much more prominent in the SF series than Bandana Dee is in the Kirby series. Also, Krystal's only not shown up in two StarFox games. She's been in more StarFox games than Andross, actually. (Theres SF, SF64, SFAd, SFAs, and SFC)

Actually, Andross shows up in Command as a "digital ghost" of sorts. Assault is the only one he doesn't show up in.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I posted a response to you Yesterday Vann, but for some reason it appears to have been removed. Can any mods answer as to why?

Wrong thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/roster-discussion-thread.324219/page-386#post-15362995

 

[Shorts]

Actually, Andross shows up in Command as a "digital ghost" of sorts. Assault is the only one he doesn't show up in.

Does he show up in Command? I didn't think he did. What about Adventures? Is he in flashbacks? (Haven't played either games in FOREVERRR)

For the hell of it, I'll post both their movesets. Similar weapons, could be made completely different. (Or either could be clones)

​

B Demon Sniper Rifle: Krystal pulls out the demon Sniper rifle from Assualt, and takes aim. Here, you have the ability to pretty much aim in any direction, and then fire. Tap B once to pull out the sniper, aim it at the target of your choosing, and BAM. Shoot them down.

>B Tricky rushdown: Krystal shouts “Tricky, now!” and out from a small warp tunnel from behind her tricky rushes forward.If the opponent is hit by Tricky, he will launch them forward. Once Tricky is summoned, Krystal can move about, however when she is in the middle of summoning, she is vunerable to attack.

VB Psychic Insight: This is Krystal’s counter move. Like Marth or Lucario, Krystal closes her eyes as a purple aura surrounds her. She uses her powers as a Psychic to feel what the enemies next attack is, dodge it, and subdue them properly. When attacked in this state, she opens her eyes, makes a blocking motion of whatever attack is hitting her, pulls out her staff,and flips the opponent behind her with it

B^ Lunge and strike: Krystal launches upward, and slightly forward, holding the staff above her head with both hands. And at the height of her jump she brings the staff down, like a hammer, bashing the opponent. The attack does the most damage if the opponent is hit with the END of the staff, but being hit by say the middle of the staff will still do damage.

Side note: I felt like her B-Moves should try to incorporate both aspects from Assault and Adventures. Instead of just catering to her staff, I used the aspect of her being a Psychic (VB), her relationship with Sauria(B>), as well as her battle skills she learned from both Sauria(B^) and her StarFox teammates(B). Her normal and air moves would incorporate both her staff, as well as her physical combat skills.

 

[Starphoenix]

For those interested, here is the Waddle Dee moveset I came up with awhile back.

WEIGHT: 3 - A litte bit heavy than Kirby because his spear adds weight.
SIZE: 2 - About the same size as Kirby.
GROUND SPEED: 3 - Just a tad slower than Kirby.
AIR SPEED: 2 - Definitely slower in the air because of his spear.
FALL SPEED: 7 - The one advantage his weight gives him is a heavier fall speed.

A - Uses one hand to perform a short jab with the end of his spear.
AA - Does a second short jab.
AAA - Unleashes a flurry of stabs with his spear that continues as long as the player continues pressing A.

Dash attack - Bounces into enemies in classic Waddle Dee fashion.

Tilt Up - Grabs spear with both hands and thrusts his spear into the air above him.
Tilt forward - Grabs spear with both hands and thrusts his spear in front of him.
Tilt down - Swipes spear across the ground, potentially tripping opponents.

Smash forward - Grips his spear with one and and puts his body into one large thrust in front of him. The forces causes him to slide forward slightly.

Smash up - Twirls spear in the air, catching opponents and tossing them into the sky. By "catch" think Zelda's Up Smash.

Smash down - Bandana Dee gets on his head, kicks his feet out, and spins on the floor with his spear in hand. Attacks in a pretty large radius.

Neutral Air- Spins in a 360 degree motion with his spear.
Up Air - Gives a powerful thrust of the spear into the air.
Down Air - Grabs spear and drills below him, sudden drop.
Back Air - Kicks opponent with the back of his foot.
Forward Air - Swings spear almost like a bat, swiping forward to hit enemies.

Neutral Special: Spear Lob - Bandana Dee will throw a spear in an arc forward. The longer the B button is held the more powerful the throw, allowing the spear to travel farther and faster. Once held to the max Bandana Dee will toss three spears that will arc in succession to each other.

Side Special: Parasol - Pulls out a parasol and slides forward. Holding the B button and the control stick will keep Bandana Dee rotating his umbrella a little longer in place.

Up Special: Spear Copter - That neat little attack from Kirby's Return to Dreamland, Bandana Dee rotates his spear causing himself to be picked up off the ground. Anyone caught up in the rotation of his spear will be damaged. If not careful the damage will be in succession (ala R.O.B's forward special) unless the enemy can break free.

Down Special: Megaton Punch - A golden oldie reference, Bandana Dee raises his hand above him and slams it into the ground. Any opponent caught around him within a certain proximity will find themselves pushed into the ground. Too close and the enemy will be seeing the end of a Waddle Dee fist.

Grab - Jabs enemy with fist

Forward Throw - Hooks a player to the spear and launches the spear forward, taking the player with it.

Back Throw - Pushes the enemy behind him and swings his spear overhead, launching the player slightly into the air.

Up Throw - Puts character on the top of a parasol and spins them around before releasing them into the air.

Down Throw - Throws enemy below him and uses the blunt of his spear to bash opponent into the ground, the force of which pushes them out the side.

Final Smash: Waddle Dee Army - Huh? Isn't this King DDD's Final Smash? Yes it is. It only makes sense for Bandana Dee to command a Waddle Dee Army. For what it's worth, King DDD gets a new Final Smash in turn. Masked DDD.

Taunt 1: Adjusts his bandana, and drops his spear. He nervously picks it back up.
Taunt 2: Lifts his spear above his head in both hands and moves from side to side.
Taunt 3: Plops onto the ground and starts blowing a snot bubble.

Colors:

Standard: Blue Bandanna with Orange skin
Color 2: Orange Bandana with Yellowish skin
Color 3: Red Bandanna with Pale skin
Color 4: Pink Bandanna with Greensih skin
Color 5: Black Bandanna with Pinkish skin
Color 6: Sailor Hat with Redish skin

Home Stage:

Cookie Country

Credits Theme (heard after completing a single player mode):

Kirby's Return to Dreamland - Main Menu 2

Slime needs to be in the game so Kirby can mistake him for Gooey. Though I don't think it would matter much if it was a mistake. They'd probably become friends anyhow. Easy enough to imagine Kirby picking Slime up and letting him ride on his back while Kirby finds food for the to eat for their picnic.

But mostly I just want Starphoenix to read by this and go "...k-kawaii~!"

Japan would be on fire if Slime ever appeared in a Kirby title.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Star knows his Dee. (-lv<)

So I've been reading stuff and I've heard Roy's the most worst lord gameplay-wise. (-l^l);

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Spoiler

B Waddle Doo blast: He uses the plasma blast that Waddle Doo uses, pretty simple.

B> Spear Throw: Bandana Dee does exactly that. This move is chargeable. The long her holds back this bad boy, the further (and faster) it will fly. If it's completely charged, three spears will be thrown. One far, one mid range, and one close to him.

B^ Spear Copter: This is pretty much like DK's Up B, but, he is raised much higher, and he has much less manuverabilty.

BV Spear placement: When on the ground, Dee will place a spear facing upward, acting as a "trap". These last for a certain amount of time, and he can have up to two on the feild at a time. When using this in the air, it acts like Kirby's down B. He points his spear downward and rapidly falls.

There's a Waddle Dee support thread that has a much better and more detailed moveset. Link.

Edit: ninja'd.

"Waddle Doo Blast"...please. Don't stoop to stuff like that.

 

[Frostwraith]

[collapse="Hidden quote"]Does he show up in Command? I didn't think he did. What about Adventures? Is he in flashbacks? (Haven't played either games in FOREVERRR)

For the hell of it, I'll post both their movesets. Similar weapons, could be made completely different. (Or either could be clones)

​

B Demon Sniper Rifle: Krystal pulls out the demon Sniper rifle from Assualt, and takes aim. Here, you have the ability to pretty much aim in any direction, and then fire. Tap B once to pull out the sniper, aim it at the target of your choosing, and BAM. Shoot them down.

>B Tricky rushdown: Krystal shouts “Tricky, now!” and out from a small warp tunnel from behind her tricky rushes forward.If the opponent is hit by Tricky, he will launch them forward. Once Tricky is summoned, Krystal can move about, however when she is in the middle of summoning, she is vunerable to attack.

VB Psychic Insight: This is Krystal’s counter move. Like Marth or Lucario, Krystal closes her eyes as a purple aura surrounds her. She uses her powers as a Psychic to feel what the enemies next attack is, dodge it, and subdue them properly. When attacked in this state, she opens her eyes, makes a blocking motion of whatever attack is hitting her, pulls out her staff,and flips the opponent behind her with it

B^ Lunge and strike: Krystal launches upward, and slightly forward, holding the staff above her head with both hands. And at the height of her jump she brings the staff down, like a hammer, bashing the opponent. The attack does the most damage if the opponent is hit with the END of the staff, but being hit by say the middle of the staff will still do damage.

Side note: I felt like her B-Moves should try to incorporate both aspects from Assault and Adventures. Instead of just catering to her staff, I used the aspect of her being a Psychic (VB), her relationship with Sauria(B>), as well as her battle skills she learned from both Sauria(B^) and her StarFox teammates(B). Her normal and air moves would incorporate both her staff, as well as her physical combat skills.[/collapse]

Weren't you thinking on something like this?

B: Blaster - shoots with her blue colored blaster.
Side B: Krystal Shine - quickly dashes in a horizontal line, leaving a trail of sparkles, hitting everyone in her way.
Down B: Staff Barrier - uses her staff to create a barrier that reflects projectiles.
Up B: Fiery Krystal - engulfs herself in blue flames and fires herself in any direction specified by the player.

Final Smash: Landmaster - her model is cyan colored instead of blue. Hers had the same duration as Fox's and Falco's, weak aerial proprieties like Fox's and weak fire power like Falco's, but moved faster on ground and the shots don't cancel when hitting, meaning they can hit everything in their trajectory.

 

[Shorts]

Your moveset feels more natural IMO. I tried to add some new gameplay things with the spear placements. Smash needs more characters that can alter the stage. (You gott jump over the spears or else you'll done be hurted)

"Waddle Doo Blast"...please. Don't stoop to stuff like that.

*hands you a tampon*

Your mom can show you how to use it hun.