Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Swamp Sensei]

In reference to Volbound's post on Sunshine. Sorry if it wasn't obvious.

Ah. My bad.

 

[---]

So maybe to get back on whatever topic we're supposed to be on, any comments on this roster I've been tossing the idea of around (Issac and Goroh are place holders, and I just guessed on 3rd parties):

 

[FalKoopa]

So maybe to get back on whatever topic we're supposed to be on, any comments on this roster I've been tossing the idea of around (Issac and Goroh are place holders, and I just guessed on 3rd parties):

Subtract Dixie. Rest is fine.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So maybe to get back on whatever topic we're supposed to be on, any comments on this roster I've been tossing the idea of around (Issac and Goroh are place holders, and I just guessed on 3rd parties):

Aside from Dixie, Saki and 4 FE characters, it's one of the best rosters I've seen IMO.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Needs more pizzazz, more flare, more excitement. I am feeling none of the excitement.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Needs more pizzazz, more flare, more excitement. I am feeling none of the excitement.

When do you ever feel excitement?

 

[Starphoenix]

What are the current standings of what people believe are most likely? I like to ask every once in a while, people tend to change it up.

For one, I'll preface by saying that the characters most likely to appear are the characters that Sakurai intended to be playable in Brawl. I do not believe we know all of them, nor will we. Mewtwo and Roy are easy bets at this point. In Roy's case, even though he's vying for room alongside Ike and Chrom -- Nintendo striking it rich with downloadable content will probably lend itself for us getting all three of them (thus making Chrom likely).

Here is my list of characters. I'm not really going to go into why these characters are more likely. I'll just give out some random thoughts:

Palutena - I doubt Sakurai's modesty will prevent him from allowing for Palutena to be playable. Kid Icarus and it's major characters existed long before Sakurai.

Takamaru - Been getting a lot of attention lately. My gut tells me Platinum is going to get a hold of this franchise if no one else has already.

Shulk - One of the most critically acclaimed titles on the Wii. Regardless of the hullabaloo over whether X is a true sequel or not, Shulk has enough to mke him interesting.

Isaac - Two blonde haired RPG characters isn't as bad as some of the other perceived character redundancies in the roster, so I've lightened up on him. He has his support in the West.

Little Mac - One of those old school characters who has always had support. Clearer field benefits him.

King K. Rool - The way people on Gamefaqs whined (understatement) to Monty Goulet, official Retro employee who has an active Gamefaqs account, about the lack of King K. Rool demonstrates how endearing he is as a character despite his absence.

Ridley - The West is single-handedly championing him. Pretty sure Sakurai will at least consider him this time.

Olimar Jr./Olimarette - I know the hate everyone has towards clones, but I see this one coming down the pike. Given the growth in Pikmin species, I firmly believe Sakurai is going to give the new Pikmin character the new Pikmin in place of the Purple and White Pikmin. Considering Pikmin is the last series Sakurai thought was character driven, who knows.

Mario Character - Who really frigging knows with this one?! I think Sakurai will pick someone by sheer virtue of the explosion in Mario titles. I still place my bets on Paper Mario, as my belief is he will probably appeal to Sakurai the most at this point.

Megaman* - Extremely popular request going back to even Melee (Sakurai acknowledged this). Christian Svensson did all he could to pass a message along to the Japanese headquarters of Capcom to attempt reaching out to Sakurai. We'll see what came of that.

*by sheer virtue of being third party he cannot be considered likely. Only popular.

Speaking of which, anything to comment on the reveal of Extremespeed Genesect: Mewtwo's Awakening?

Doesn't really change much. Pretty much destroys the anti-Mewtwo brigades excuse that Mewtwo isn't relevant to The Pokémon Company anymore. Genesect and Mewtwo going at each other will be pretty sweet. Does my heart good to see that fan art I've so frequently reposted of the two staring each other down is about to become reality.

If TPC is going to push for anyone (though they won't), it will probably be Genesect at this point. Pokémon X/Y is a non-factor outside of Pokéball fodder and potential downloadable content.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I do think people give Issac more credit then the character deserves, especially considering the stigma of not being worthy.

 

[---]

(Sakurai acknowledged this)

Actually missed that. Man I really need to go back through and look at what I've been saving one of these days. lol

Genesect and Mewtwo going at each other will be pretty sweet.

Will take a lot to beat out Mewtwo vs Deoxys in my heart. Here's hoping.

EDIT: Am actually cool with 2 Pikmin characters. I'd prefer this to be the "surprise" character rather than someone silly like Mr. Peepers.

 

[ChronoBound]

EDIT: Am actually cool with 2 Pikmin characters. I'd prefer this to be the "surprise" character rather than someone silly like Mr. Peepers.

I would not mind a second Pikmin character getting in either, even if he/she is a luigi-fied clone.

Personally, I would be really happy with the roster Starphoenix outlined.

 

[Starphoenix]

Actually missed that. Man I really need to go back through and look at what I've been saving one of these days. lol

Will take a lot to beat out Mewtwo vs Deoxys in my heart. Here's hoping.

EDIT: Am actually cool with 2 Pikmin characters. I'd prefer this to be the "surprise" character rather than someone silly like Mr. Peepers.

In a lot of ways, I think the surprise characters we will see in this next game will be more along the lines of "Olimar Jr." or "Balloon Fighter". We are expecting Sakurai to pull off something elaborate like a fighting robot composed of Nintendo consoles shooting cartridges from its kneecap, without realizing there are plenty of other routes Sakurai can take. Let's be honest: if Sakurai included anyone outside of the top 8 we seem to be recycle every discussion, it is going to be surprising. This is partly why I believe so religiously that characters like Waddle Dee stand a decent chance, because I'm looking from a "what can they bring to the table" perspective, which is what a lot of people seem to overlook. At this point it is not like there will be characters "held back" because Sakurai took a few more gambles with the roster.

 

[ChronoBound]

Star, I am curious on your take on whether there will be a Namco character. The people at Namco seem interested in it (mostly the Tales guys). However, demand for a Tales character (or Pac-Man) is nowhere near that of the top most wanted guys for Smash 4. I mean even Mega Man is not where Sonic was in terms of requests.

 

[Starphoenix]

Star, I am curious on your take on whether there will be a Namco character. The people at Namco seem interested in it (mostly the Tales guys). However, demand for a Tales character (or Pac-Man) is nowhere near that of the top most wanted guys for Smash 4. I mean even Mega Man is not where Sonic was in terms of requests.

After Solid Snake, I really cannot write off anyone definitively. Do I think it's likely? No. The developers don't appear to want to push Sakurai and there really is no fan demand to compel them to change their minds.

All that being said, I do think it is very likely we will see a Pac-Man stage in the next game akin to 75m or Mario Bros (hopefully with less hazards). 8-bit Pac-Man could even make a cameo appearance. A nice little bone of goodwill from Namco for all of their help.

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm, the discussion about cdneym (or whatever his name is) in the Fire Emblem thread got me curious.
@Chrono specifically: He WAS in fact was the one that posted that "post-2001" thing as well as the other things from the post of yours I linked in the thread.
However, unlike what he said about Melee and 64, he had a source to back him up in the original post that contained what was said in the 2008 Famitsu.
This, to be exact: http://www.geocities.jp/bgrtype/gsl/words2/dairantosmabrax/smashbrothersx.html
When (poorly) translating and reading through the whole thing as I have no life, I found, he was completely right about what was said EXCEPT for the 2001 thing.
The translated source seems to more or less saying what the Nintendo Power interview stated, that there was no series since Pikmin that could have a workable character. So I guess Golden Sun doesn't have any sort of issue with Sakurai after all. Wish I could say the same for Starfy, though.

The source also has things others have mentioned, such as the Diddy/Dixie tag-team plan, as well as Sakurai going to Intelligent Systems for Ike. Even confirming what YOU said about there originally being a placeholder for a "Fire Emblem Newcomer" before Ike was decided.
What hasn't been mentioned already (to my knowledge) was that Ike was specifically reccomended because he was a stark contrast to Marth, having a slow but powerful style.
And it even confirms some things that were merely speculated; like why Pokemon Trainer has the set he does. Everyone believed it was for balance purposes to have one of each evolutionary stage, and they were right.

Also, on another note, it is mentioned that Lucas was meant to be more similar to Ness originally, but time allowed for him to be made different. And on ANOTHER note, the translation involving the Animal Crosser mentions "insect removal" as a method to fight. Does that mean he would have used bug spray as an attack?

 

[ChronoBound]

We knew about all of that before cednym (particularly that link).

 

[Starphoenix]

Nice to see how we have been misinterpreting Sakurai's quote. Really makes me wonder about that missing music series in Brawl now. Although now I'll have to go to Wikipedia and see which all Nintendo series began after Pikmin.

We knew about all of that before cednym (particularly that link).

Obviously I don't. Eh, can't keep up to date on everything.

 

[---]

All that being said, I do think it is very likely we will see a Pac-Man stage in the next game akin to 75m or Mario Bros (hopefully with less hazards). 8-bit Pac-Man could even make a cameo appearance. A nice little bone of goodwill from Namco for all of their help.

A 3rd party stage? I like the way you think Star. Kinda reminds me of the music from Tetris that got into Brawl.

 

[Big-Cat]

I just finished Sticker Star. What a disappointment. Guess I'll be selling this game.

 

[Deleted member]

We knew about all of that before cednym (particularly that link).

Yet most of that information has been either unsaid or stated incorrectly. And even questioned when it came up today.

 

[N3ON]

I think the only ones between Pikmin and Brawl that were notable could've been Starfy and Mii (though Mii is a bit of a special case - and in Brawl's development, especially the character selection period, it hadn't had it's huge impact yet). Custom Robo, Golden Sun, Sin & Punishment, Animal Crossing, Wars, etc. all came before Pikmin.

I really need to brush up on the info about the missing series in Brawl, before I made a solid guess, but I'd say given Sakurai's statements, that the series in question could either be Golden Sun or Custom Robo. They could also both have run into legal issues, being second-party IPs (and the remaining content from those series could've been shuffled around. I still think it's odd that GS got a song and AT but not even one sticker).

 

[FlareHabanero]

I just finished Sticker Star. What a disappointment. Guess I'll be selling this game.

You and me both. I was not kidding when I said it dumbed down everything for the sake of dumbing down everything.

 

[Deleted member]

Well the thing is, the translation is not saying there was no series notable, just that there was none that offered a "suitable" fighter.
Starfy's existance might seem like a counter, but I suppose from a certain standpoint, his very stubby limbs might be seen as a complication and leave him "unsuitable".

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well the thing is, the translation is not saying there was no series notable, just that there was none that offered a "suitable" fighter.
Starfy's existance might seem like a counter, but I suppose from a certain standpoint, his very stubby limbs might be seen as a complication and leave him "unsuitable".

I don't think that's the reason, as we have Kirby and Jiggs. Perhaps they had problems thinking of a moveset?

 

[~automatic]

The levels are not engrossing and they are annoying on top of that. The dock level especially stunk having to scale platforms and then falling all the time.

So portions of the game were too hard for you?

Sunshine was great imo. It is the weaker 3D Mario game but it's still a great and fun platformer.

But you're posting here...

+1

 

[Starphoenix]

Well, N3ON, the "missing series" is a little theory derived from the filenames of the music in Super Smash Bros. Brawl:

A - Mario
B - Donkey Kong
C - Legend of Zelda
D - Metroid
E - Yoshi
F - Kirby
G - Star Fox
H - Pokémon
I - F-Zero
J - Fire Emblem
K - Mother
L - Pikmin
M - Wario Ware
N - Animal Crossing
P - Kid Icarus
Q - NES
R - Wii/DS
S - Metal Gear
T - Super Smash Bros.
U - Sonic
W - Melee
X - Brawl
Y - Subspace Emissary
Z - Victory Themes

If you notice, in the midst of the new series filenames there is no letter "O". The way in which the filenames are arranged have led myself and others to believe there was a series removed for some reason. My personal theory is that one of the random tracks disassociated from a particular stage is probably a left over from that file group.

 

[N3ON]

Well the thing is, the translation is not saying there was no series notable, just that there was none that offered a "suitable" fighter.
Starfy's existance might seem like a counter, but I suppose from a certain standpoint, his very stubby limbs might be seen as a complication and leave him "unsuitable".

Yeah, I meant notable as in a series with a "notable" and plausible (and suitable) candidate, but I guess I didn't say it very well, my bad. Embarrass
Although other than Starfy, Nintendogs, and Mii, (and maybe Band Brothers) I would be hard-pressed to really think of a notable series at all between Pikmin and Brawl's character selection period. I'd agree with Sakurai in that during that period of time it was really more about expanding series and sequels than establishing new IPs.

And this does seem to be a bit of a detriment for Starfy's chances (as I thought Sakurai was referring to characters that in his mind didn't merit inclusion, not ones that would be unsuitable for fighting - as series can change their merit easier than characters like Starfy - who hasn't changed all that much - can suddenly become suitable fighters). If it was solely based on merit, I'd say Starfy stood a second chance, as he had a fairly successful transition to a worldwide audience (even if that hasn't been follow-up yet for some reason), but if Sakurai didn't think of him as a character that would work well in a fighting game then, I really wouldn't be surprised if he still shared that view.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well, N3ON, the "missing series" is a little theory derived from the filenames of the music in Super Smash Bros. Brawl:

If you notice, in the midst of the new series filenames there is no letter "O". The way in which the filenames are arranged have led myself and others to believe there was a series removed for some reason. My personal theory is that one of the random tracks disassociated from a particular stage is probably a left over from that file group.

Only real series I can think of that fits the bill is Golden Sun as it had music in the game.

 

[Oasis_S]

If you notice, in the midst of the new series filenames there is no letter "O". The way in which the filenames are arranged have led myself and others to believe there was a series removed for some reason. My personal theory is that one of the random tracks disassociated from a particular stage is probably a left over from that file group.

Electroplankton?

 

[Starphoenix]

Only real series I can think of that fits the bill is Golden Sun as it had music in the game.

Could be. Whenever this possible removal took place had to have happened early on as the filenames for the "R" category line up systematically:

R02 - PictoChat (CS: Shogo Sakai)
R03 - Electroplankton
R04 - Flat Zone 2 (C: Kenichi Okuma)
R05 - Mario Golf / Mario Tennis (A: Motoi Sakuraba)
R06 - Lip's Theme - Panel de Pon (A: Masafumi Takada)
R07 - Marionation Gear - Chosoju Mecha MG (A: Masafumi Takada)
R08 - Title - Big Brain Academy (AS: Toru Minegishi)
R09 - Golden Forest [Original] - 1080°Snowboarding
R10 - Mii Channel (AS: Shogo Sakai)
R11 - Wii Shop Channel [Original]
R12 - Battle Scene / Final Boss - Golden Sun: The Lost Age (A: Motoi Sakuraba)
R13 - Shaberu! DS Cooking Navi (AS: Toshiyuki Sudo)
R14 - Excite Truck [Original]
R15 - Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day [Original]
R16 - Opening Theme [Original] - Wii Sports
R17 - Charge! [Original] - Wii Play
*Credit to http://www.mariowiki.com/List_of_music_in_Super_Smash_Bros._Brawl

If the series had been Golden Sun, I doubt they would have just intejected the track into the group, potentially throwing off the numbers.

Electroplankton?

Part of group "R".

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, I was familiar with the theory, but for some reason I was blanking on the details, thanks for the explanation. It's placement would suggest the series had a role in Brawl at least as big as Animal Crossing, but it's unlikely we'll ever narrow it down with so little information, though it's interesting nonetheless.

I'd say (without any bias) that it seems like Golden Sun would be the likeliest series it could be, but even that is purely a guess.

EDIT: Hmm, I don't doubt that the removal of the series happened early on (as there is no character data of a character from an unrepresented series in the Forbidden 7 or anything - of course this series might not have ever had a playable character planned like AC - in which case it wouldn't ever have needed character data) but I guess it does make Golden Sun look a little less likely. Oh well, like I said, I doubt we'll ever know for sure which series it was.

 

[~automatic]

GOlden Sun's BRSTM cOde is R12 sO it's categOrized under Wii/DS.

Sauce: http://www.smashboards.com/threads/245176/

EDIT: The Ommision Of the letter O was prObably mOre Of a functional thing rather than a series OmmisiOn. All the majOr series are already listed under individual letters and smaller franchises (1080 and Exite Truck fOr example) are all lumped intO R sO if there really was an OmissiOn it would have to be a super secret series nObOdy knOws abOut.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think that's the reason, as we have Kirby and Jiggs. Perhaps they had problems thinking of a moveset?

To be fair, Kirby and Jiggs have a decent range of motion with their limbs. From what I've seen of Starfy, it's not as easy for him.
That, and Starfy has much more to work with than Falcon ever did....



EDIT: Although, there still is the fact that Starly's (Stapy's) trophy is peculiarly listed under "Fighter Related". Food for thought, but it could be that the missing series is Starfy's series, ironically enough.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What about the so called deleted songs. Did they all have series represented by the above chart?

 

[N3ON]

What about the so called deleted songs. Did they all have series represented by the above chart?

Yeah, they all came from already established series, none came from O and they all were already sorted and coded into their respective categories.

• snd_bgm_A11_MLRPG02
• snd_bgm_A12_MORINOKINOKO
• snd_bgm_C06_KAZENOSAKANA
• snd_bgm_E04_COOKIE
• snd_bgm_G06_COMMAND
• snd_bgm_J01_STAGECHANGE
• snd_bgm_J05_ERABARESHI
• snd_bgm_K02_SENTOUONIISAN
• snd_bgm_K03_EIGHTMELODIES
• snd_bgm_K04_SMILEANDTEARS
• snd_bgm_K06_BECAUSE
• snd_bgm_M14_WARIOSTAGE
• snd_bgm_N04_RADIOTAISO
• snd_bgm_Q03_SPORTSMEDLEY
• snd_bgm_R01_WILDTRACKS
• snd_bgm_S01_MAINTHEME
• snd_bgm_S09_BEATMANIA
• snd_bgm_T04_HOWTOPLAY
• snd_bgm_U05_UCANDO
• snd_bgm_W22_DX55
• snd_bgm_X12_SIMPLEINTRO
• snd_bgm_X14_ENDING
• snd_bgm_X24_HOW2PLAY

 

[ChronoBound]

Here is a wild idea, what if there was a Tetris stage originally planned for Brawl, and the Music Folder consisted of music from various Nintendo puzzle games (Tetris, Dr. Mario, Panel de Pon), but somehow were not able to get the stage greenlighted for Brawl. I don't know just throwing ideas out there.

Thinking about Olimar Jr./Olimarette, we have gone a very long time without any new Pikmin 3 information. That game is supposedly a few months away from release, and we still know barely anything about it.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, V is missing too.
Since that comes after Sonic, that may have been placeholder for another 3rd Party in case one was added.

 

[Starphoenix]

Yeah, I was familiar with the theory, but for some reason I was blanking on the details, thanks for the explanation. It's placement would suggest the series had a role in Brawl at least as big as Animal Crossing, but it's unlikely we'll ever narrow it down with so little information, though it's interesting nonetheless.

I'd say (without any bias) that it seems like Golden Sun would be the likeliest series it could be, but even that is purely a guess.

EDIT: Hmm, I don't doubt that the removal of the series happened early on (as there is no character data of a character from an unrepresented series in the Forbidden 7 or anything) but I guess it does make Golden Sun look a little less likely. Oh well, like I said, I doubt we'll ever know for sure which series it was.

Part of the thing is this theorized series might have been stage only ala Animal Crossing and Smashville. Any one of the other tracks could be fair game. There is also the possibility that there are no left overs from that missing group and they were removed completely from the game.

I'm surprised no one finds it odd that the Mario Golf / Tennis track isn't classified under the Mario "A" group.

Also, V is missing too.
Since that comes after Sonic, that may have been placeholder for another 3rd Party in case one was added.

There were some missing file music from Brawl that might have been associated with that category. I don't think the "V" being next to Sonic is nearly as indicative. Who knows though. Well, Sakurai does. I'm not going to be too dogmatic about something as cryptic as a missing letter. Just something fun to think about.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Although, there still is the fact that Starly's (Stapy's) trophy is peculiarly listed under "Fighter Related". Food for thought, but it could be that the missing series is Starfy's series, ironically enough.

Never heard of that...

Do you have a source? (Not questioning you, I just want to read for myself, I love unused data in games)

Perhaps Starfy was the series, but then why would Sakurai state that no characters after Pikmin would work?

I'm confused...

 

[Deleted member]

It's not the only odd placement. Dr. Mario's Chill theme is under NES music.
Though when you think about it, the two songs are not listed under Mario songs in Brawl's Sound Test either, but under "Nintendo".

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Maybe V was for Vendetta