Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Baskerville]

When E3 rolls around, ****s gonna be insane.

 

[ChronoBound]

Remember when this thread was supposed to be a discussion about the roster?

#throwbackthursdays

In a few days we will probably be talking about the first major Pokemon of Generation 6. I am really curious what its design will be. Hopefully, its not another furry (though there is a good chance it probably will be).

 

[lobotheduck21]

at least we will have some awesome games to keep us busy (at least I hope project x zone is awesome)

@chrono well if the eevee things have been truthful

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Habanero: Then how did she...


...

...

Let's just say Galactic Federation brings in the meals.

Falchion: ALL TO THE BACKROOM SHIP.

 

[FlareHabanero]

One thing for sure, the new Pokemon will be flavor of the month and fall into the shadows just like others. We'll never get another Pokemon like Lucario, so don't even get your hopes up.

Also, there is no guaranteeing anything at this point. Don't even pretend ether.

Spoiler

I like Zoroark more then Lucario anyway, but opinions.

 

[ChronoBound]

One thing for sure, the new Pokemon will be flavor of the month and fall into the shadows just like others. We'll never get another Pokemon like Lucario, so don't even get your hopes up.

Also, there is no guaranteeing anything at this point. Don't even pretend ether.

People will place whatever that Pokemon is on their rosters even if its a green recolor of Lucario.

If its something other than another anthro-furry, it has potential to be more popular than at least Zoroark.

The 15th is the latest we will know the contents of the latest issue of CoroCoro since it typically leaks earlier than the street date.

 

[---]

Honestly at this point I'm betting it'll be another Munchlax. With 5 Genesect already in the movie I don't think they'll try to squeeze in another co-star. In addition since they're building up hype plot wise for this movie, I don't think they'll introduce a new major Pokemon out of nowhere, unless of course it's also hinted at during the anime.

Also we getting Ash's Charizard back in March, why do we need another co-star when we have him?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I dunno still if it's Ash's Charizard in those newest episodes.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I dunno still if it's Ash's Charizard in those newest episodes.

It is. And that is awesome!


Chaiz@rd comfirmeed!

 

[---]

I dunno still if it's Ash's Charizard in those newest episodes.

After watching the last two Japanese openings for Best Wishes in addition to previews of the movie from Corocoro it's one of those "hasn't been confirmed, but is true anyway" kinda of things. Either way we'll find out for sure in March in the episode: Burn, Charizard! vs. Dragonite!

Relating some of this back to Smash, I think this is more evidence that we'll be keeping PT Red.

 

[Deleted member]

So people asked about this a while back:

A revamp for Link for SSB4, this is assuming we didn't get any new mechanics from Smash Brawl to 4. So, no strings, no Air Dashes, etc... Though, those would greatly benefit Link.

I'll see what I can do for Zelda, but with Link and Ganondorf done, that's 2/3 of the Triforce trio done. I'm not gonna do Toon Link, but if I did, I'd give him the Four Sword Gimmick as a central part of his playstyle.

Anyway, enjoy:
[COLLAPSE="Link in SSB4"]

Link:

Buffs and Changes:
His speed and attack speed have been increased and his weight and falling speed have been cut slightly but some of his power has been taken away slightly, no longer falling into the “slow but powerful” category and making him a much more balanced character. He has been changed to focus more on long range combat and zoning. He still retains much of his poor mobility, but has been given an improved Hookshot to give him more mobility options, in addition, the range of all his closer range attacks has been increased making him a more mid-to-long range character. Furthermore, the start and ending lag on some moves has been replaced by moves which either no longer have it or is cut considerably, thus allowing Link to set up combos much more easily. His recovery has been improved back to the efficiency it had in Melee, the Spin Attack once again being a more reliable recovery move, and once again, the MUCH improved Hookshot make Link a much harder character to kill than before.

The biggest addition to Link’s arsenal has been the use of a Magic Meter, and a variety of long range Sword Beams that stem from his Normal Attacks. Magic for Link functions in a rather unique way; some of his moves can make use of his Magic mechanic, using up a portion of magic to get added properties (more power, more damage, Ice Arrows, more range, Beams, etc…). In order for the Magic to function you need to have enough Magic to use it; some attacks use up more magic, others use less. If you don’t have enough Magic, you simply can’t use it. Link charges up his magic by landing hits on his opponents, some attacks recover more magic than other, this is done for several reasons. One, it mimics the fact that in the Zelda games, Link can recover Magic potions from fallen opponents to charge his magic, two, it separates his Magic Gimmick from Zelda’s and Ganondorf’s and three, balancing, thus preventing Link from relying TOO much on Magic.

Attacks that use Magic:
Neutral A- can fire slow moving, lower range Sword Beams, they each cost 1/10th full Magic per beam.
Side A- fires a fast moving, long range Sword Beam, it costs 1/5th magic, per beam.
Up Smash- Powers up attack by increasing hit box and damage, second strike gets better damage and knockback. 50% consumed with this.
Side Smash- Fires a Skyward Strike with the second Slash, basically a MUCH more powerful version of the FTilt version. 1/3rd Magic consumed with beam.
Bair- places an Ether Medallion in front of him that allows for great Zoning and Spacing. Each placement of a medallion costs 1/4th Magic.
NSpec- Can fire Ice Arrows that freeze opponents if fully charged. Each Ice Arrow costs 1/4th Magic.
USpec- Can Charge Spin Attack for added range and damage. 2 Levels of charge, Blue and Orange. Blue Charge consumes 50% Magic, and increases properties by 25%, Orange Charge is full power, and increases properties by 50% making it lethal, Orange consumes 75% Magic.

Also, some of Link’s moves recover more Magic, that others, this is a crucial point a Link player has to keep in mind when playing as Link.

Moveset


Normal
Neutral attack- First two slashes remain the same as in Brawl, the third is replaced by the Jump Attack from OoT. First two Slashes will fire low range weak beams that travel slowly if you have the magic. First hit does 4-5%, second 2-3%, then 10%. Beams do about 2% each one and stun opponents like Falco’s laser, beams use up very little magic with use. The multi-strike is gone as it’s useless.
Dash attack- The Pegasus Boots Run from LttP, MC, etc.. Link picks up speed while pointing his sword forward, has multiple hits and tramples over opponents, but then pushes them back a fair distance. 12% damage
Down tilt- Does a short roll and then slides while sticking his leg out. Does around 6% damage with the kick, and has invincibility frames on the roll. You can press A again after landing the kick and Link will do a horizontal slash. Slash does 15% damage, and has very good hitstun and range. This move recovers a good amount of magic with the slash.
Forward tilt- Thrusts his sword forward in a stab, it has a long window for damage, as long as the sword is out, it deals damage. Hits only in from of Link, but has very good range and can make a great Zoning tool. However, characters can slide under it, and short characters that can crawl can avoid it, so be careful. Great for use in Combos, as it’s very fast, and doesn’t deal much knockback, and can stuff enemy jumps. Will fire a longer range sword beam that deals decent damage and travels quickly with magic. Beam can hit alongside slash if used with magic for a double hit. Stab does 13-15% damage, Beam does around 3-4% but consumes double the amount of magic the neutral sword beams do.
Up tilt- A quick arced slash above him. Among Link's most flexible moves on the ground; it has good combo potential, it's rather fast with minimal ending lag, and it has good knockback. 9% damage, and recovers a decent amount of magic with it.

Smash Attacks
Up smash- Link will do an upward arching slash that will have him rise up from the ground and place him in mid-air and then back flip back down. You can press A again right before the back flip to have Link perform a quick second slash from mid-air that will do very good horizontal knockback. The first slash will launch opponents at just the right location for the second slash to work and has low enough knockback to set up other combos as well. This move is most effective fully charged and with magic. When used with magic, the first slash will have a better hitbox as it leaves a trail, and the second strike will be more powerful, however, it consumes half a magic meter at full power. Uncharged inflicts 15%. Fully charged will do 20%. Second Strike does 10%. With Magic both attacks do 10% more.
Forward smash- Swings sword once in front for good knockback by itself, and if "A" is pressed again, does an even stronger one after. It is impossible that the second hit will land at damages above 30% or so due to knockback growth of the first hit. The first hit is still strong, though, not as much as the second one. 7-32% uncharged, 10-37% fully. Link’s best killing move. The second swing has been reanimated to resemble Skyward Strike, and as such will have Link fire his most powerful Sword beam with it if you have the magic. The Beam travels quickly and deals around 10-15% damage on impact.
Down smash- Uncharged it is a quicker version of his old Down Tilt. It can lead into aerials, and can Meteor ledge grabbing opponents. It has decent range and makes for good Zoning. Fully charged he swings sword on both sides of him on the ground. First hit comes out fast, though second hit has some lag. This move has decent range, and since the hitbox is on the floor, it makes this move good for spacing, and has some KO power. 13-16% front uncharged; 17-21% front, 15-19% back fully charged.

Other attacks
Ledge attack- Climbs up and stabs in front of him. 8% damage.
100% Ledge Attack- slowly gets up and quickly thrusts his sword. Only the sword has a hitbox; foes close to the end of ledge Link was on can avoid the attack completely. 8% damage.
Floor attack- Back slash, will roll a distance and quickly do a half Spin Attack hitting opponents from behind. Great for mind games and getting distance on opponents. 6% damage.
Guard Attack- Shield Bash. When Guarding, you can tap B to have Link swing his shield in a “hook punch” motion and stun his opponents for a split second, effectively making it another way of getting opponents off of Link, and setting them up for attacks.

Aerial Attacks:
Neutral aerial- Helm Splitter, very fast and with decent range, an overhead attack that hits from NE to S. It’s pretty easy to see coming , but is also a good Zoning move because of its range. Will do a Meteor at the right angle, though it’s tricky to use as such. Approx 19-21% damage.
Back aerial- Ether Medallion. Link Places an Ether Medallion in front of him (in mid air) that will shock opponents with a small lightning strike when they touch it. He can only place one medallion at a time, placing a new one will case the old one to disappear. Consumes Magic. Hits around 3 times, great for spacing and zoning. 5-7% each hit.
Forward aerial- Swings twice in front of him. The first hit is usually hard to follow into the second hit. This is somewhat like his f-smash, where the second hit has more power than the first, so the first hit is usually purposely missed in favor for the second. Due to its moderately high ending lag, it's rather situational for edgeguarding. 13% for the first, 7% on the second.
Down aerial- His famous aerial from Zelda II where he takes his sword and keeps it aimed downward. This move is a move of extremes: huge knockback, huge ending lag, and huge hitbox. It is possible to hit more than once with this move on the same foe. If the move's still in action when Link lands, he'll have to pull it out from the ground, with among the highest ending lag in the game; as such, the move can be risky, giving it slightly as much cool-down time as an ordinary smash attack. It is one of his primary KO moves, dealing 22% at outset, and it can KO reliably starting at 80% to 90%.
Up aerial- Stabs sword above him. Good for juggling, and it acts as a reliable vertical finisher at higher damages ~120%. Has some sex kick properties, though it has rather high ending lag. 16% damage, 12% afterwards.

Throws:
Hookshot- The properties of this move have been drastically changed from before. Link can now aim his Hookshot at opponents and in any direction he pleases. Pressing and holding Z will cause Link to pull out his Hookshot and aim it in the same fashion Pit aims his arrows. Releasing Z will cause Link to fire the Hookshot which has fast launch speed but slower return speed. Meaning you can pull opponents right out of the air. You can do this same exact thing in mid-air as well which will pull opponents toward you. Hitting a wall or ceiling or even floor with the Hookshot will cause Link to tether to it, whether you’re in mid-air or not thus greatly increasing his mobility options (think Hazama in BlazBlue). A quick tap of the Z button will cause Link to use the Hookshot just like in the previous games however, retaining its previous use (likewise with L+A). The range of the Hookshot has been doubled from what it was in Melee, and it’s return lag has been cut by 25%, thus making it a very useful tool in Link’s arsenal.
Pummel- Bashes foe in the head with his sword hand (left fist). 2-3% damage.
Forward throw- Kicks foe a short distance in front of him. Low knockback. One apparent kick, but two mysterious hitboxes. 4% first hitbox, 3% second
Up throw- Brings foe up and slashes above, with below average knockback, allowing it to potentially combo into an up tilt or an up air. Two mysterious hitboxes, 3% first, 2% second
Down throw- Brings foe down and tackles. Leaves foes wide open for a combo, such as his Spin Attack or up tilt. Two hits, first does 2%, then 4%
Back throw- Brings foe behind and kicks in a similar fashion to his forward throw. 2% then 3%


Special Moves

B - Bow + Arrow/Ice Arrow:
Link fires and arrow, can be cancelled into like in Brawl. Arrows travel much faster and farther than in Brawl and Melee. The Charge time has also been sped up. Fully charged arrows will consume magic and fire an Ice arrow. Ice Arrows hit twice (arrow, then Ice hit), and freeze opponents for around 1.5 seconds. Arrows do around 2-3% damage and just stun, Ice Arrows do 12% damage and freeze. Ice Arrows consume quite a bit of magic.

Side B - Magical Boomerang:
Toon Link’s Boomerand, nuff said.

Up B - Spin Attack:
Behaves identically to Melee’s and even does the same damage and upward recovery. However, it is also chargeable, charging it will consume Magic, using it with Magic will increase the Damage and Range of the move. a full Charge will use up most of your magic meter but it makes it a very effective killing move. Link is vulnerable while charging, and is completely open to counter attack from the top.

Down B – Bombs:
Same as before, however, the blast radius has been increase to mimic Toon Link’s and the damage has been bumped to 9%. If you press Down A on the ground to throw them Link will Roll them on the ground a certain distance making them a good Zoning tool.

Final Smash:

Triforce Slash, nothing changes here, it's a good move.

Playstyle:

Link’s main strengths rely on poking his enemies until he can build enough magic to Zone them effectively. Both his Ground and Air game are solid having a wide arsenal of tools at his disposal. From Arrows to Bombs to his Boomerang and Hookshot, Link is far from helpless without Magic. In fact, with the added range to his attacks Link can effectively Zone and fight without it. Most of his magic meter will usually go to Sword Beams and Ether Medallions to pressure opponents, however, as their uses are limited, one can’t simply spam them like Falco’s Laser, and they must be uses cunningly to set up combos. The Medallion’s main function is also defensive, giving Link something else to work with to help his rather lackluster air play. The addition of a much better Nair, also gives Link more to work with in mid-air.
Now despite, his general independence from magic in combat, a Link player will find it more difficult to score kills without Magic than otherwise, therefore resource management, and intelligent use of Magic are critical in playing this character properly.
Link’s biggest weaknesses aren’t as glaring as before. Now much more balanced and rounded character, he can generally face off against enemies rather well. He’s meant to be a character that’s rather easy to learn, but very powerful if mastered.



[/COLLAPSE]

Oh, btw, I used the Melee Wiki as a base, I also didn't change his throws, so any suggestions for that are welcomed. I'd like to give him a better FThrow.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Honestly at this point I'm betting it'll be another Munchlax. With 5 Genesect already in the movie I don't think they'll try to squeeze in another co-star. In addition since they're building up hype plot wise for this movie, I don't think they'll introduce a new major Pokemon out of nowhere, unless of course it's also hinted at during the anime.

Also we getting Ash's Charizard back in March, why do we need another co-star when we have him?

I don't think the Pokemon anime has any effect to Genesect getting in. It has to be videogame related anyways. Same with Ash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't think the Pokemon anime has any effect to Genesect getting in. It has to be videogame related anyways. Same with Ash.

The anime has more influence then you let on. Although Genesect is nothing special.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The anime has more influence then you let on. Although Genesect is nothing special.

No, Pokemon just decided to have an anime.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

No, Pokemon just decided to have an anime.

And how do you think Pikachu, Jigglypuff and Lucario got popular?

 

[peeup]

Only reason Jigglypuff was in Smash was because of the anime. Probably true for Lucario, maybe true for Pikachu.

I think if the anime didn't exist, Mewtwo might have been the only Pokemon rep in SSB64.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Only reason Jigglypuff was in Smash was because of the anime. Probably true for Lucario, maybe true for Pikachu.

I think if the anime didn't exist, Mewtwo might have been the only Pokemon rep in SSB64.

Not for Pikachu, he became the icon of Pokemon.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Not for Pikachu, he became the icon of Pokemon.

And how did he become the icon?

He certainly didn't stand out in the games.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Not for Pikachu, he became the icon of Pokemon.

Because of the anime.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Because of the anime.

Pokemon Yellow Version.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Pokemon Yellow Version.

Which is heavily based on the anime, more so then the other games.

 

[N3ON]

Pikachu was the most popular Pokemon the Pokemon Company had under consideration to be the "main" Pokemon in the anime, and represent the series. Another was Clefairy, but Pikachu ultimately won out. So, even before the anime (which definitely caused the majority of his popularity) Pikachu was still one of the more popular Pokemon.

But yeah, the anime caused him to be the single-most iconic Pokemon.

 

[SmashShadow]

Pokemon Yellow Version.

By that logic Venusaur, Blastoise and Charizard would have also been in too over Jiggs.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Pokemon games aren't influenced by anime. Pokemon anime gets its influence from the games. It's like you're assuming the anime came first before the actual games came out. The only influence the Pokemon games get from anime is the Pokemon events where you get legendaries when the Pokemon movie starring it comes out most of the time.

 

[Deleted member]

Pikachu was the most popular Pokemon the Pokemon Company had under consideration to be the "main" Pokemon in the anime, and represent the series. Another was Clefairy, but Pikachu ultimately won out. So, even before the anime (which definitely caused the majority of his popularity) Pikachu was still one of the more popular Pokemon.

But yeah, the anime caused him to be the single-most iconic Pokemon.

This,

Clefairy had been intended to be the original icon, you can see artwork of Red and a Clefairy floating around on the net. Pikachu won out in the end because he was deemed as cuter and would also win over the female audience.

Anime is what launched him to stardom however.


Anyway, what the hell are we even arguing about here?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Pokemon games aren't influenced by anime. Pokemon anime gets its influence from the games. It's like you're assuming the anime came first before the actual games came out. The only influence the Pokemon games get from anime is the Pokemon events where you get legendaries when the Pokemon movie starring it comes out most of the time.

We never said the anime came first. We just said the anime made Pikachu and the like popular. If the anime had no bearing whatsoever, we would have gotten Mewtwo, Charizard, Blastoise and Venasaur in the original.

 

[ChronoBound]

Pikachu was the most popular Pokemon the Pokemon Company had under consideration to be the "main" Pokemon in the anime, and represent the series. Another was Clefairy, but Pikachu ultimately won out. So, even before the anime (which definitely caused the majority of his popularity) Pikachu was still one of the more popular Pokemon.

But yeah, the anime caused him to be the single-most iconic Pokemon.

I was going to say this, but I am glad someone else knew that piece of info.

I think we will be getting two new Pokemon in a few days. One will be a new Eevee evolution (due to the new Pikachu short that centers around Eevees), while the other will be the first major Pokemon of Generation 6.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Anyway, what the hell are we even arguing about here?

No idea.

Anyway, on the subject of improving Link. Link in my opinion desperately needs better recovery options first and foremost. That is the main problem with Link, which is especially notable since he's supposed to very defensive with the smorgasbord of projectiles available. Also having some better speed with some of his attacks and having more shielding options.

 

[BluePikmin11]

We never said the anime came first. We just said the anime made Pikachu and the like popular. If the anime had no bearing whatsoever, we would have gotten Mewtwo, Charizard, Blastoise and Venasaur in the original.

"It's like"
I wasn't really saying that.

 

[lobotheduck21]

looks like toon link isn't confirmed safe yet

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/08/help-make-zelda-legos-a-reality

 

[Deleted member]

No idea.

Anyway, on the subject of improving Link. Link in my opinion desperately needs better recovery options first and foremost. That is the main problem with Link, which is especially notable since he's supposed to very defensive with the smorgasbord of projectiles available.

That's why I thoroughly revamped his Hookshot taking after Hazama from BlazBlue, with an omnidirectional Hookshot, that can tether to all surfaces, and has double the range it had before, I think Link just got a lot harder to kill. That's why I dropped his weight a bit, so K.O.ing him isn't a nightmere. His Spin Attack was also buffed. I just felt Link's hybridism between Zoner and Close Range Powerhouse was awkward and needed more synergy. That's why I made him a Balanced Zoner modeled after Ky Kisuke and Jin Kisaragi. The easy to learn Zoners that can work well with everything and usually end up being some of the best characters in the games.

 

[Fastblade5035]

I think Link is in need of a few buffs; no moves should change. His bombs should be pulled out faster, but perhaps have a shorter toss range. They should also be able to be placed on the ground, like Snake's grenades. Arrows need to be let out faster, but other than that they are fine. The boomerang needs the range of Melee and the damage of 64 (or Brawl) The Clawshot should automatically zone into the nearby ledge, with Melee's range and length.

Link's Nair is good, but needs to be a bit faster. Bair needs better hit range, but is overall fine. Uair should be much faster with less landing lag, perhaps in exchange for damage. Dair should have wider range and mid landing lag (I think of SSF2, for example) His grabs need the power from 64, and the Clawshot should act like 64 as well. Link's weight should drop a tiny bit, but with the longer Clawshot, he's much harder to kill for good. His jab should 'bring' oponents in with good stun, that way it's easier to run away and pull out a bomb, for example, then throw it at them. His forward smash is fine, just needs to be a bit faster. Up smash is perfect in my opinion; down smash could use less ending lag.

Link should be about as fast as Mario. Spin Attack should be one of Link's most reliable moves. It should have the standard power from Melee, but also chargable like in Brawl. As well, it should be a multi-hit move, that way you cannot shield then grab. In the air, the Spin Attack should be like Luigi's tornado; if you mash the A button, Link will go further in range. Link's roll should be average, and his air dodge is fine too. His forward tilt needs nerfing, but can instead be faster. Up tilt should be good for juggling, and have moderate kill power at relatively low levels (Like 100% for Kirby, without any DI) Down tilt needs less lag, and if it could meteor smash someone who's occupying the ledge, that'd be great.

Jeez, that was a lot. This is all my humble opinion, however, so I might be completely wrong. If so, I'd greatly appreciate some criteria.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Link is in need of a few buffs; no moves should change. His bombs should be pulled out faster, but perhaps have a shorter toss range. Arrows need to be let out faster, but other than that they are fine. The boomerang needs the range of Melee and the damage of 64 (or Brawl) The Clawshot should automatically zone into the nearby ledge, with Melee's range and length.

Link's Nair is good, but needs to be a bit faster. Bair needs better hit range, but is overall fine. Uair should be much faster with less landing lag, perhaps in exchange for damage. Dair should have wider range and mid landing lag (I think of SSF2, for example) His grabs need the power from 64, and the Clawshot should act like 64 as well. Link's weight should drop a tiny bit, but with the longer Clawshot, he's much harder to kill for good. His jab should 'bring' oponents in, that way it's easier to run away and pull out a bomb, for example, then throw it at them. His forward smash is fine, just needs to be a bit faster. Up smash is perfect in my opinion; down smash could use less ending lag.

Link should be about as fast as Mario. Spin Attack should be one of Link's most reliable moves. It should have the standard power from Melee, but also chargable like in Brawl. As well, it should be a multi-hit move, that way you cannot shield then grab. In the air, the Spin Attack should be like Luigi's tornado; if you mash the A button, Link will go further in range. Link's roll should be average, and his air dodge is fine too. His forward tilt needs nerfing, but can instead be faster. Up tilt should be good for juggling, and have moderate kill power at relatively low levels (Like 100% for Kirby, without any DI) Down tilt needs less lag, and if it could meteor smash someone who's occupying the ledge, that'd be great.

Jeez, that was a lot. This is all my humble opinion, however, so I might be completely wrong. If so, I'd greatly appreciate some criteria.

Just buffs aren't enough to make a character good, as that is context sensitive to the game itself and the engine mechanics. The problem with Link is that the character itself is broken. There is no clear cut strategy behind him and thus he's been garbage since Smash 64. The only time he was any decent was in Melee, and he was still Low Tier. Also, for the record, his Clawshot already autolocks to ledges, but this is actually WORSE than the option he had in Melee which was hooking to all wall surfaces as it gives him less options. His Bombs should come out faster I do agree on that, I forgot to mention that in the profile.

Link's Nair is good, but being 'good' isn't good enough. If we analyze Link's air game we notice two things. First off his fast fallspeed makes Air-game secondary to his strategy. Second, despite having a lot of long range options with specials, his air game suffers quite a lot as outside of those, the only useful moves are Uair, Dair, and situationally Nair/Fair. None of which have any decent range to make up for his fast fallspeed. Thus, Helm Splitter, being a Canon move also provides him with a move that gives him improved range. Likewise with the Medallion, giving him one more defensive Aerial options that can prove to be one of his MOST useful moves. Bair is a garbage move and NEEDS to be replaced. The landing lag on Dair and Uair should stay, it's a great punishment for whiffs, and makes sense.

Link doesn't need to pull opponents in he needs to push them out and have better range on his neutrals, this is what I meant by a lack of synergy. There are two opposing camps to playing Link and they don't play well together at all, he's a mess in regard to balance. This is why I gave him the Shield Bash, and the slower Sword Beams, as well as his new FTilt and DTilt, giving him more options to set up sweet spots and put pressure on opponents. If you compare Link to the likes of Snake or Diddy Kong, you'll quickly see that Link has a hard time putting pressure compared to them. This is also why I gave him the Sword Beams, in three variations: slow, fast, fast and powerful.

The Spin Attack doesn't need to be multi-hit, Brawl Link's biggest problem was the lack of efficient killing moves. Link can shave damage just fine at long range, what he needs are efficient mid-range killing moves. Thus his Spin Attack needs to be more like Melee's. As for his throws I would avoid making them too powerful thanks to his new Hookshot. In fact, throws should be the worst aspect of Link as he's not meant to be a Grappler, he's meant to be a Zoner. I agree on your other points.

I kept Utilt the same as before, didn't change a thing. It's his best move after all. The new DTilt is meant for combos, and it's another Canon Zelda move.

The changes I gave to Link were inclined in balancing HIM as a character and giving him a clear strategy and the means at achieving it. His new Hookshot, though powerful, isn't broken, also, his slightly lighter weight, makes him easier to kill than before. He's a bit faster too, but not as fast as Mario, just a smidge slower actually. This is to make him a good Zoner, Link is meant to be able to flow between defensive and offensive play rather easily. And well, the Magic gimmick is something I wanna give to the 3 main Zelda characters, and well it gives Link some very useful new tools to work with and it harks back to a classic technique that is left out for some strange reason.

My take is make Link a balanced Zoner, give him more long range options, increase the range on his attacks and improve his recovery as that is his biggest flaw.

Buffs as far as speed, power, etc... are more dependent on the engine itself, but the idea is that he can overcome a detrimental engine by having an effective strategy.

 

[Fastblade5035]

Thanks for the advice; I suppose I need to learn a lot more about Link, then. As for buffs, I was actually only thinking of Brawl's engine; I forgot to consider the ever-changing engine. The way I see Link (or saw) was that he should be able to damage oponents from afar, then come in for a safe kill.
Oh, and I guess I didn't explain the Clawshot correctly. What I think it should do is automatically zone onto the ledge, but also be compatible with wall surfaces, and keep the length of Melee.
I also didn't mean multi hit like Toon Link; I meant that you shouldn't be able to shield on impact, then attack Link while he's still spinning. I think that with my changes, the Spin attack becomes both a reliable kill option and a move to use when your being ground comboed, or just pressured in close combat. This might just be my personal mistake, however; I get caught in close combat fighting sometimes, and my first thought is "Spin Attack, run, arrow"
But thanks for the rest of the criteria. Is there anything else about Link to discuss anymore? (I like the sword beams, but certainly not in exchange for the Boomerang, bombs, arrows, or clawshot)

Oh, and the Hylian Shield should be more useful. Perhaps make his shield stronger? Like Bowser? (I can't remember who has the best shield right now...)

 

[FlareHabanero]

The Hylian Shield has blocking properties in the Super Smash Bros; if you hit it with a projectile it neutralizes it. The problem is that it has such a small frame that using it in a practical sense is inconvenient. What I'd suggest is making it more practical by making the frame bigger, and maybe give the shield super armor properties for Link in front of him.

 

[Chepe]

Honestly at this point I'm betting it'll be another Munchlax. With 5 Genesect already in the movie I don't think they'll try to squeeze in another co-star. In addition since they're building up hype plot wise for this movie, I don't think they'll introduce a new major Pokemon out of nowhere, unless of course it's also hinted at during the anime

The reason there probably is a Gen VI costar for the Genesect movie is mainly because of the movie's title, which is the abbreviated "ExtremeSpeed Genesect." The Pokemon movie titles have typically been abbreviated this way until the "movie coverage" issue of CoroCoro, which reveals the full title that was withheld because it was hiding something big. It's likely that a Gen VI Pokemon will have its name on the title, which will make the full title something dramatic like "ExtremeSpeed Genesect vs. eternal savior Sixthmon."

Also, Pokemon movies always have a starring Pokemon that can speak to the human characters in a protagonist role. The Genesect army seems unlikely to fit this role, and indeed being cybernetic might reduce their chances of speaking all that much. A Gen VI Pokemon of the Lucario sort would fit this role perfectly.

CoroCoro is set to leak any day now. I have a feeling that after this issue, no longer will the placeholder "Gen VI Pokemon" appear on fan rosters.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

My take is make Link a balanced Zoner, give him more long range options, increase the range on his attacks and improve his recovery as that is his biggest flaw.

Thats how ive been using him the whole time. Distance is his weapon, and since normal link has some pretty powerful weapons i can keep the distance i need, until the fight comes to me. Hell my main means of getting the smash ball is via his arrows at full charge, while everyone is running after it i can line up a shot and get it in one hit.

 

[Fastblade5035]

That's essentially HOW you have to play Link. MY mistake is that I constantly try to go in and attack, which also leads to me over using Spin Attack. I've had many fun matches against Snake's, but as soon as I get in to fight 1 on 1, I get destroyed. Heck, even DK and Bowser outmatch Link in a 1 on 1. (Brawl)

 

[Big-Cat]

Thanks for the advice; I suppose I need to learn a lot more about Link, then.

Oh, and the Hylian Shield should be more useful. Perhaps make his shield stronger? Like Bowser? (I can't remember who has the best shield right now...)

While learning about the character can help, it helps to understand what makes a character good or bad.

On the shield, I've expressed interest a number of times to have the current shield system function more like an actual shield like Link's. You aim it to protect you so the opponent has to try to get your weak spots.

 

[FlareHabanero]

On the shield, I've expressed interest a number of times to have the current shield system function more like an actual shield like Link's. You aim it to protect you so the opponent has to try to get your weak spots.

Again, the Super Smash Bros. games kind of do this for projectiles, but it's so impractical that it doesn't really benefit anything. You would think a shield would, you know, shield Link better.