Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[FlareHabanero]

Samurai Goroh it would be Takamaru

What is your mentality that makes you think that? I'm seriously confused.

 

[Frostwraith]

@Habanero: Perhaps the same mentality as the one behind making Ganondorf a Captain Falcon clone?

Still, the irony is too much to be ignored...

 

[ChronoBound]

This is quite laughable to be honest.
Takamaru and Goroh are nothing alike whatsoever to the point that they can be cloned.

They both use katanas, and are sort of "samurai".

Regardless, I don't see a second F-Zero character happening in Smash 4, especially considering the last F-Zero game released will be over 10 years old by the time Smash 4 releases.

I think if were not for the tremendous popularity of Rare's DK games, K. Rool and Dixie Kong would be in trouble too.

 

[Big-Cat]

Oh look, we're making assumptions about roster decisions based on our own arbitrary criteria again.

 

[ChronoBound]

Oh look, we're making assumptions about roster decisions based on our own arbitrary criteria again.

Arbitrary = anything you don't agree with.

The fact is aside from the whole "but.. but... but... they would soooooo unique" (forgetting the whole moveset potential thing is subjective), there is not much reason for Star Fox to get a fourth playable character.

 

[Big-Cat]

No, arbitrary, meaning random and to fit with your personal interpretation. This has nothing to do with my preferences. Nothing in the big four criteria requirements has anything to do with the last time a series got a game.

 

[Deleted member]

They both use katanas, and are sort of "samurai".

Takamaru uses various ninja tools and ninjutsu as well as his sword.
Goroh pretty much is all sword and brawn.

Takamaru is quick and precise.
Goroh is reckless and wild.

Unless Takamaru DOESN'T use his tools and ninjutsu, Goroh can't really logically clone him.
On the other hand, if Goroh somehow comes first, then Takamaru can copy HIM instead as a faster, weaker clone.

 

[FlareHabanero]

They both use katanas, and are sort of "samurai".

That doesn't exactly mean much like you think. Keep in mind that by definition, Goroh is a samurai in name only. Not to mention the two have different body builds and characteristics. Takamaru also has characteristics of ninja too, like invisibility and shurikenjutsu.

 

[ChronoBound]

That doesn't exactly mean much like you think. Keep in mind that by definition, Goroh is a samurai in name only. Not to mention the two have different body builds.

I just don't see Goroh happening (or Sakurai devoting a lot of resources to making a second character for a franchise that is close to being dead for a decade). Personally, I don't get the animosity towards clones. I think most Goroh fans would have him as a clone of some character than not in at all. Regardless, I think Goroh getting in even as a clone, is doubtful. I think Black Shadow would be more likely to happen if anything, but even his chances basically were lost after Brawl's release (I remember on 2ch before they unlocked Wolf, they were expecting Black Shadow to be among the last several characters).

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I have spoken my mind to more unpopular things in the past.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

One of the arguments to support Krystal's inclusion is her weapon of choice... the staff.

Guess who else has a staff too...?

Every male character.

Spoiler

Late to the punchline, but it had to be done.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Every male character.

"Sonic doesn't have a penis because he's asymmetrical!"

-Arin, Game Grump

 

[Deleted member]

Things are bleak for a new F-Zero character, I agree, but suggesting that two completely different characters in terms of style should be similar and that people should deal with it is just.....wrong.
Especially when it's just based on the main weapon they use, and completely ignoring everything else.

Seeing as you support Dixie, I will use her as an example that will get you to understand what you're doing.
Ok, so, things are looking bleak for her, correct? I mean, she wasn't in DKCR, she was meant as a tag-partner to Diddy in Brawl and when they were seperated, she wasn't a big priority to keep.
Now, you know how Diddy and Dixie differ, don't you?
Well, I now say that the only way she'll get in is a last-minute clone/semi-clone to Diddy because they are both small simians. How does that sound? Not too good, does it?

 

[Big-Cat]

Things are bleak for a new F-Zero character, I agree, but suggesting that two completely different characters in terms of style should be similar and that people should deal with it is just.....wrong.
Especially when it's just based on the main weapon they use, and completely ignoring everything else.

I would say that it's pushing your theories as facts, but that might be too extreme.

 

[Frostwraith]

Things are bleak for a new F-Zero character, I agree, but suggesting that two completely different characters in terms of style should be similar and that people should deal with it is just.....wrong.
Especially when it's just based on the main weapon they use, and completely ignoring everything else.

The main problem is that F-Zero hasn't seen a new game since 2004, and even so, it was a Japan-only game (F-Zero Climax).

The last major release was in 2003, with F-Zero GX for the GameCube.

As of today we have a almost 9 years hiatus for this series, which is more or less the same time span between Super Metroid and Metroid Prime.

 

[Deleted member]

That really has no bearing on what I said about suggesting Goroh be a Takamaru clone.

I'm well aware of the bleakness of the situation.

 

[ChronoBound]

The main problem is that F-Zero hasn't seen a new game since 2004, and even so, it was a Japan-only game (F-Zero Climax).

The last major release was in 2003, with F-Zero GX for the GameCube.

I personally doubt we are going to see another F-Zero announced at E3 this year. Miyamoto seemed pretty shocked that there was interest in another title. I could see the series maybe being given to Monster Games down the road though if that Diddy Kong Racing Wii U rumor is true.

Personally, F-Zero is one of my favorite Nintendo franchises. I actually unlocked everything for GX (all vehicle parts, all AX pilots, the AX cup, and unlocked all 41 character movies), it was so extremely difficult, but I had a ton of fun with it too.

 

[FlareHabanero]

You know, expanding smaller series instead of expanding bigger stuff might become a larger priority this time around. After all, there seems to be a penchant to make every franchise as balanced as possible.

 

[ChronoBound]

You know, expanding smaller series instead of expanding bigger stuff might become a larger priority this time around. After all, there seems to be a penchant to make every franchise as balanced as possible.

What do you define as smaller series though?

I could see Kid Icarus getting far more content this time. However, I am skeptical whether F-Zero will be given more content, I am personally crossing my fingers that this time it will finally have an item.

Smaller series like Mother received a decent amount of content in Brawl (aside from the trophies).

 

[Deleted member]

Arguably, there is no surefire Newcomer character at all for this game.
Everyone has something going against them that can be a hurdle to cross.

 

[ChronoBound]

Arguably, there is no surefire character at all for this game.
Everyone has something going against them that can be a hurdle to cross.

Yeah. The only character I am feeling extremely confident on is Mewtwo (mostly due to being probably the most wanted character overall for Smash 4). However, even Mewtwo might not get in if Pokemon is limited to four slots, or if Lucario and a 6th-gen Pokemon outprioritize Mewtwo in a five slot situation.

 

[BKupa666]

Do you all think we might see an F-Zero newcomer, either because of Samurai Goroh's prominence within Smash, or because the newcomer pool is simply that dry, after the obvious few are in?

 

[ChronoBound]

One big thing in regards to Smash Bros. speculation will happen later this week. CoroCoro's February issue will be released on the 15th (though details are usually leaked earlier). In this issue we will probably see the unveil of the first major Pokemon of Generation 6.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'm not expecting any new F-zero characters, but at the same time I'd like that option more so then more The Legend of Zelda or Mario characters. After all, give the smaller stuff some love too.

 

[Big-Cat]

I just want to see a diverse cast with well thought out movesets and playstyles. You can include "has beens" like Lyn, Krystal, Sukapon, etc., but if it's a really fun game, I couldn't care less.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I just want to see a diverse cast with well thought out movesets and playstyles.

*Laughs*

 

[IAm2Sarcastic4U]

The Starfox, F-Zero and Mother series need to be rebooted tbh. Give them each their respective long waited home console game on the Wii U. Nintendo needs to stop focusing so much attention to the Mario and Zelda franchises and start letting the world know that there is more to them besides Mario. I get it that Mario is their cash cow but if they would take the time to make a GOOD GAME for their lesser known IPs and PROMOTE it, they won't always have to rely on Mario to sell consoles.

 

[Opossum]

Honestly, I wouldn't find Goroh to be too likely, if not for his prominence in Smash Bros.

Call me a wishful thinker, but I just feel it's Goroh's time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he the first AT revealed pre-Brawl? Now, I didn't exactly support him back then while I lurked, so I don't know... (instead my interest in him came post-Brawl), but how did people take his exclusion back then?

 

[IAm2Sarcastic4U]

PKMN is overexposed as well. All those Rumble games or Mystery Dungeon crap is overwhelming.

 

[Big-Cat]

*Laughs*

And that's the one barrier preventing all this. At the same time though, I do consider Fox, Peach, and Marth to be rather well thought out, in Melee at least.

 

[ChronoBound]

The Starfox, F-Zero and Mother series need to be rebooted tbh. Give them each their respective long waited home console game on the Wii U.

Mother is over. Itoi (the creator, writer, and director to all three games in the series) said Mother 3 was the end of the series. I don't expect anything else in the future to that series other than remakes and ports (Mother 2/EarthBound is going to be released for the Japanese Wii U Virtual Console in Japan for only 30 cents).

F-Zero does not need a reboot, so much as a new game period.

Star Fox is definitely in need of a reboot though. I think when Star Fox does come back, its going to continue off of 64, and basically ignore all the games after that.

 

[IAm2Sarcastic4U]

The mother series shouldn't be represented in Smash Bros anymore then.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Sakurai pretty much balanced the games by himself in the context of a 4 player free-for-all with items on.

Now point out the problems with the above.

 

[volbound1700]

I don't think Sakurai is going to devote resources to make an original fourth character to a franchise that has not had an original game since 2006. I think Krystal's best shot is if Palutena gets in, and Sakurai decides to make Krystal a luigified clone of her. I could also see Krystal being a clone of Zero Suit Samus or even Fox/Falco/Wolf. Falco and Wolf getting in also was pretty much luck as well (Falco was not originally planned for Melee, and there is reason to believe that Wolf may have been the last or second-to-last character added to the game). Sakurai has never gone in making a Smash Bros. sequel with the intention of adding a Star Fox newcomer.

The same goes for any F-Zero newcomer. It will only happen if there is another character for the F-Zero character to be a clone of. For Samurai Goroh it would be Takamaru, while for Black Shadow it would be Captain Falcon (if Ganondorf is given a new moveset).

Wolf had to be at least second to last. Sonic was the last character added to Brawl and was added after most of the other characters had been developed.

 

[Big-Cat]

Sakurai pretty much balanced the games by himself in the context of a 4 player free-for-all with items on.

Now point out the problems with the above.

Do you want the short or the long?

 

[IAm2Sarcastic4U]

*gasps* What if Miyamoto decides Pikmin 3 is the last game of the Pikmin series.

On topic: #AnthonyHiggsForSSB4

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I know it can be a cruel wait and all to think how BAD this game can be. But I don't think that's the purpose these games are made in the first place: to troll and troll and keep on trolling Nintendo's fans.

 

[BluePikmin11]

*gasps* What if Miyamoto decides Pikmin 3 is the last game of the Pikmin series.

On topic: #AnthonyHiggsForSSB4

Miyamoto wouldn't do that.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Do you want the short or the long?

Go with the long version. I'm not doing anything at the moment, so hit me up with a nice speech.

 

[---]

Sakurai pretty much balanced the games by himself in the context of a 4 player free-for-all with items on.

Now point out the problems with the above.

Has Sakurai even admitted to saying that's how he balances the games (outside of the all by himself part)? This is probably a dumb question, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's ever been proven that that's how he balances the games.

But if true it certainly does explain the poor balance, competitive play wise, we've had in past games in the series.

 

[ChronoBound]

I know it can be a cruel wait and all to think how BAD this game can be. But I don't think that's the purpose these games are made in the first place: to troll and troll and keep on trolling Nintendo's fans.

Nothing will ever out-troll Melee's roster.

Seriously, you should have seen the reaction when people learned of Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link being in the game, and that we did not get Wario, King Dedede, or Diddy Kong.

Brawl's roster was a great, and nearly perfect.

I think Brawl was the better fanservice game, while Melee was the better fighting game.