Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Big-Cat]

Again, the Super Smash Bros. games kind of do this for projectiles, but it's so impractical that it doesn't really benefit anything. You would think a shield would, you know, shield Link better.

You misunderstood me. I'm talking about the shield bubble functioning more like a proper shield instead of covering the whole player initially. Of course, I know the idea isn't popular around these parts and I can understand why.

 

[FlareHabanero]

So, basically like Pit's Mirror Shield in terms of function?

 

[Big-Cat]

So, basically like Pit's Mirror Shield in terms of function?

No. The shield bubble is smaller, and you move it around to defend yourself. Instead of shrinking, it gets darker and darker until it breaks.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Oh, so more like Yoshi's egg shield in terms of properties.

...Which reminds me of the fact how horrible Yoshi's shield is. I mean it's unique, but it really hurts Yoshi's defensive options by a fair amount. I should know since I play Yoshi extensively as one of those guilty pleasure characters.

 

[lobotheduck21]

so what do you guys think the art style should be for the game

 

[Big-Cat]

Oh, so more like Yoshi's egg shield in terms of properties.

...Which reminds me of the fact how horrible Yoshi's shield is. I mean it's unique, but it really hurts Yoshi's defensive options by a lot. I should know since I play Yoshi extensively.

Properties, yes. The main point with this idea is to add a high-low mixup dimension to the game.

so what do you guys think the art style should be for the game

Something more colorful than Brawl.

 

[Fastblade5035]

I could me blatantly wrong, but if I remember correctly, didn't Sakurai use the current Zelda design for the games? Ex. Melee had OoT Link, so everyone was changed to look like they could be in OoT. In Brawl, it's TP Link, so everyone looks like they could be in TP. By that logic, wouldn't Skyward Sword be the basis for Smash 4? If so, then we could have a bright, colorful smash like Melee! (A good thing)

 

[Deleted member]

No. The shield bubble is smaller, and you move it around to defend yourself. Instead of shrinking, it gets darker and darker until it breaks.

I would be fine with getting high-low blocks, and getting the bubble as a SUPER shield. Make it break faster on non-heavy characters, so people are forced to think more about blocks,

Thats how ive been using him the whole time. Distance is his weapon, and since normal link has some pretty powerful weapons i can keep the distance i need, until the fight comes to me. Hell my main means of getting the smash ball is via his arrows at full charge, while everyone is running after it i can line up a shot and get it in one hit.

Exactly, Link is a Long range character, with Mid-range killing moves. Right now he's a mix between a Heavyweight and a Zoner. There's no synergy and he doesn't really specialize in anything. I made him a more balanced character, which means he needs to lose weight and gain a bit of speed, as I said, I modeled his moveset after Ky Kiske in Guilty Gear, but I also included a lot of canon moves that are left out. The Roll Attack, the Helm Splitter, the Jump Attack, etc...

Thanks for the advice; I suppose I need to learn a lot more about Link, then. As for buffs, I was actually only thinking of Brawl's engine; I forgot to consider the ever-changing engine. The way I see Link (or saw) was that he should be able to damage oponents from afar, then come in for a safe kill.
Oh, and I guess I didn't explain the Clawshot correctly. What I think it should do is automatically zone onto the ledge, but also be compatible with wall surfaces, and keep the length of Melee.
I also didn't mean multi hit like Toon Link; I meant that you shouldn't be able to shield on impact, then attack Link while he's still spinning. I think that with my changes, the Spin attack becomes both a reliable kill option and a move to use when your being ground comboed, or just pressured in close combat. This might just be my personal mistake, however; I get caught in close combat fighting sometimes, and my first thought is "Spin Attack, run, arrow"
But thanks for the rest of the criteria. Is there anything else about Link to discuss anymore? (I like the sword beams, but certainly not in exchange for the Boomerang, bombs, arrows, or clawshot)

Oh, and the Hylian Shield should be more useful. Perhaps make his shield stronger? Like Bowser? (I can't remember who has the best shield right now...)

Ahh, I see what you mean with multi-hit, I dunno, that seems kinda OP, it should just be a simple killing move.

Also, the Beams don't replace Specials, they're fired from the Neutrals if you have the magic for them.

As for the Shield I gave him the Bash as an extra function, as far a blocking, I think it's fine, just give it a better hitbox like in Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

Something more colorful than Brawl.

This, but up the contrast, a colorful high contrast artstyle would be nice and much better than the bland look in Brawl.

 

[Fastblade5035]

Well, I put multi-hit because other wise, a smart player can render the Spin Attack absolutely useless. With multiple hits, they can no longer shield and punish; all they can do is A. Shield until the move is done or B. Shield and roll away.
Oh, ok. How would that work with the bombs, though?
Or perhaps Link could have a different standard pose, which takes advantage of the shield?

 

[Big-Cat]

I would be fine with getting high-low blocks, and getting the bubble as a SUPER shield. Make it break faster on non-heavy characters, so people are forced to think more about blocks

I'm not so sure on the shield stamina being like that. If we have that, then perhaps alpha counters should be considered. What I'm concerned about is if you have some OP pressure.

 

[Moon Monkey]

so what do you guys think the art style should be for the game

I like the Cartoony Realistic mix they got going on in Melee and Brawl. The Saturation needs to be turned up a bit. Brawl seemed too flat

 

[Deleted member]

Well, I put multi-hit because other wise, a smart player can render the Spin Attack absolutely useless. With multiple hits, they can no longer shield and punish; all they can do is A. Shield until the move is done or B. Shield and roll away.
Oh, ok. How would that work with the bombs, though?
Or perhaps Link could have a different standard pose, which takes advantage of the shield?

Hmm, I see what you mean, but I think the idea if or the range of the spin attack to make up for that. Fully charged it gets added range. I think that alone makes the Spin Attack a great zoning move.

I think it's fine, with Bombs it should remain the same, the punishment for using a bomb is losing the defense from the shield. It adds balance. Unless you mean the sword beams. Those only come out with your Neuts.

I'm not so sure on the shield stamina being like that. If we have that, then perhaps alpha counters should be considered. What I'm concerned about is if you have some OP pressure.

You mean with Link or with Blocks?

The Shield itself the same we have now, just nerfed so it breaks faster.

The blocks would just be high/low blocks that reduce the damage taken. I'm kinda hesitant on giving ALL characters counters as I like that being a gimmick for unique characters. It should just be like GG/BB with blocks and powerblocks. Powerblocks in Smash block ALL, but have more limited use, and take long to recharge.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I don't know why, but I kind of want to see official artwork to have a more rough art style like how Mario Strikers Charged did it.

[COLLAPSE="Everyone is really pissed in that game for some reason"]

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Moon Monkey]

Oh, so more like Yoshi's egg shield in terms of properties.

...Which reminds me of the fact how horrible Yoshi's shield is. I mean it's unique, but it really hurts Yoshi's defensive options by a fair amount. I should know since I play Yoshi extensively as one of those guilty pleasure characters.

I brought this up in the Zelda thread I think Zelda should have Nyruu's(sp?) Love as a shield. once the shield is released it will break out into shards and functions how it currently does in Brawl/Melee

 

[SmashShadow]

I brought this up in the Zelda thread I think Zelda should have Nyruu's(sp?) Love as a shield. once the shield is released it will break out into shards and functions how it currently does in Brawl/Melee

But that would make her short a special and would be OP because shields have almost no lag.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

But that would make her short a special and would be OP because shields have almost no lag.

A new special wouldn't be too hard to make.

And she is in desperate need of a buff like that.

 

[---]

so what do you guys think the art style should be for the game

Something like Brawl, but less darker in tone, with a tad bit more color.

Spoiler

Why does Mario have a poker face the entire game?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Zelda needs better options for approaching. Her attacks are very potent, but she has extremely few chances and methods to actually use it. If that problem is solved some how, Zelda would be more usable.

 

[Moon Monkey]

But that would make her short a special and would be OP because shields have almost no lag.

But it would only reflect attacks when released. Nyruu's Love would function as shield until released. It is an interesting concept and it can help free up Zelda for other moves

 

[Fastblade5035]

Perhaps, with Nayru's Love as her shield now, Zelda can use the Light Arrow as her neutral? Think a mixture of Link and Pit: It goes straight forward (Pit) but cannot be controlled (Link)
The Light Arrow would also have a stun effect, like a very watered down Deku Nut.
Thoughts?

 

[SmashShadow]

A new special wouldn't be too hard to make.

And she is in desperate need of a buff like that.

That would make every attack(projectile or regular) on shield unsafe...OP. She needs buffs but not something stupidly good like that.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Zelda needs better options for approaching. Her attacks are very potent, but she has extremely few chances and methods to actually use it. If that problem is solved some how, Zelda would be more usable.

I think increasing the range of her Nair would be a good start. If the attack was more of a disjointed hitbox type of move it would help Zelda approach opponents.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nayru's Love could be chargeable. Like, the longer you hold B the longer the time you reflect stuff back. Din's Fire worked fine in Brawl, but could easily be stopped with every sort of move. If it gets better priority, it'll be an awesome move. Up B works fine to, and is a good recovery. Though, I still think she needs an actual Down B for herself. And you know, have Impa as a separate Sheik character.

Anyways, since we're talking Zelda, I made this earlier today:

Some have seen it but you're discussing Zelda anyways so... Plus, this thread moves too fast anyway.

 

[Big-Cat]

Project M Zelda. That is all.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Maybe it would be cool to have all these as costumes though. Just like maybe all the Link versions. I think that'd be cool actually. Not just for Link and Zelda, but all characters. Including pantless Marth if they must.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Project M should really be taken into consideration when it comes to balancing, since it really does show how characters would play like without crippling flaws. I like toying with Bowser, Ness, and Sonic in particular.

 

[Diddy Kong]

But it has Waveshining Fox in it... Basically all characters where made to their Melee best, but buffed overall. Except for Fox and Falco, who needed no buffs lol.

 

[SmashShadow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XeyTATryDU

 

[volbound1700]

When it comes to arrows, doing the following would be interesting to have Toon Link be able to switch between Fire/Ice Arrows.

 

[FalKoopa]

@Diddy Kong
How many times are you gonna post that pic?

 

[FlareHabanero]

You know, it's ironic how the fans can create a more balanced game then the professionals.

(I'm never going to shut up about this.)

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The fans don't have a company forcing a release date down their necks

 

[Deleted member]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XeyTATryDU

Those Fireballs! **** YES! That's EXACTLY what I wanted to give Zelda in regard to her Din's Fire. Something with MUCH more mobility that resembled Mu-12's Drive.

Also, what's with Pit's arrows? Those are neato!

 

[Big-Cat]

Those Fireballs! **** YES! That's EXACTLY what I wanted to give Zelda in regard to her Din's Fire. Something with MUCH more mobility that resembled Mu-12's Drive.

Also, what's with Pit's arrows? Those are neato!

Now you see why I've been spreading the Gospel of PM Zelda. Giving Zelda steins is a crazy awesome idea. PM Zelda remidns me of Mu-12 and Parasoul.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Also, what's with Pit's arrows? Those are neato!

Pit's arrows were always very nimble, but using it at that level is hard. The Light Arrow is probably one of the trickiest but best projectiles in the whole game. In Project M, I believe the arrows became slightly more nimble with a modification to charging; the knockback of the move charges faster then the damage.

 

[Deleted member]

Now you see why I've been spreading the Gospel of PM Zelda. Giving Zelda steins is a crazy awesome idea. PM Zelda remidns me of Mu-12 and Parasoul.

Agreed, I'm gonna give Project M a run, I'm gonna see if I can test drive it on Dolphin, I just wanna see what they did to the characters. I'm intrigued now.

The fans don't have a company forcing a release date down their necks

Skyrim, nuff said.

That game is GARBAGE without mods. With mods it's AMAZING though.

Pit's arrows were always very nimble, but using it at that level is hard. The Light Arrow is probably one of the trickiest but best projectiles in the whole game. In Project M, I believe the arrows became slightly more nimble with a modification to charging; the knockback of the move charges faster then the damage.

They were nimble, but never THAT nimble.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What happened with Skyrim?

 

[Big-Cat]

Agreed, I'm gonna give Project M a run, I'm gonna see if I can test drive it on Dolphin, I just wanna see what they did to the characters. I'm intrigued now.

Lucario has a magic series and special canceling. Zamus was made into Zero Suit Cammy.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Lucario plays like he wants to be in MvC....

I do like what they have done with Zelda. she really commands the stage.