Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Deleted member]

1 million copies was just for North America + Japan. It sold even more with European sales included.

Xenoblade did not even break 200K in Japan, and it was sold at only one retailer in North America (Gamestop).

The Golden Sun GBA games both sold much more than Xenoblade. Xenoblade just received high accolades. The only GS game that sold poorly was Dark Dawn.

Yeah, but nowadays videogames are selling less than they used to. At least in regard to franchises, if you draw a line for all the major franchises out there. Zelda, Smash Bros, Pokemon, Metal Gear, Street Fighter, Fire Emblem, Devil May Cry, you'll notice a downward trend in sales, and also in expectations.

Today, 1 Million is spectacular, whereas back then it was more average. That's why it's unfair to compare games in a retrospective matter to their own franchise, as the market and industry have radically changed, as have expectations. Not to mention the impact renting, and internet piracy has had on the industry.

So really, 200k is better than you make it sound today. Not to mention, thanks to Project Rainfall, Xenoblade has managed to forge a name for itself. Something GS could never really do. It never really stood out. It was just another RPG on the GBA console. Dark Dawn could in many ways be an example how GS fares in a modern environment. If Dark Dawn had been more close to it's predecessors would it have been a bigger commercial success? It think otherwise as most of the people who bought it were fans of the series already. Meanwhile Monolith's "X" is hyping many as a potential system seller for the WiiU. Golden Sun could never do that.

 

[TheCreator]

Xenosaga as a whole belongs to Namco, so there for KOS-MOS still belongs to Namco.

Monolith Soft is one of those companies that had to resort to making spiritual successors due to copyright complications from jumping between different companies. First it was Xenogears by Square, then it was Xenosaga by Namco, and finally Xenoblade by Nintendo. However, Xenoblade is related to Xenogears and Xenosaga in name only.

Well that's unfortunate.

 

[Deleted member]

Xenosaga as a whole belongs to Namco, so there for KOS-MOS still belongs to Namco.

Monolith Soft is one of those companies that had to resort to making spiritual successors due to copyright complications from jumping between different companies. First it was Xenogears by Square, then it was Xenosaga by Namco, and finally Xenoblade by Nintendo. However, Xenoblade is related to Xenogears and Xenosaga in name only.

That explains a lot. Also in regard to Xenogears.

Why do they keep using "Xeno" in all their damn titles? It's getting to be rather confusing.

 

[ChronoBound]

Yeah, but nowadays videogames are selling less than they used to. At least in regard to franchises, if you draw a line for all the major franchises out there. Zelda, Smash Bros, Pokemon, Metal Gear, Street Fighter, Fire Emblem, Devil May Cry, you'll notice a downward trend in sales, and also in expectations.

Smash Bros. Brawl was the highest selling game in the Smash Bros. series.

Pokemon Black/White sold better than Diamond/Pearl.

FE13 sold better than every other game in the FE series with the exception of FE3 and FE4.

The latest DMC bombed because it was a tasteless reboot no one wanted.

The only series in decline on that list is Zelda (mainly due to Skyward Sword). I am not sure about Metal Gear (at least in Japan, I know the series has remained constant in terms of sales), or Street Fighter, so I won't comment.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Proof: the rich are getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

Skyward Sword was still an awesome game though.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Skyward Sword was a great game though

 

[peeup]

I want Wreck-It Ralph to be in Smash. Maybe not as a playable character, but an Assist Trophy, or a stage based on Game Central Station.

 

[Deleted member]

Smash Bros. Brawl was the highest selling game in the Smash Bros. series.

Pokemon Black/White sold better than Diamond/Pearl.

FE13 sold better than every other game in the FE series with the exception of FE3 and FE4.

The latest DMC bombed because it was a tasteless reboot no one wanted.

The only series in decline on that list is Zelda (mainly due to Skyward Sword). I am not sure about Metal Gear (at least in Japan, I know the series has remained constant in terms of sales), or Street Fighter, so I won't comment.

-was it? I always assumed it sold less than Melee

-Yeah, but they didn't outsell Gen 1 and 2, and if I'm not mistaken HG/SS, though I'm too lazy to look up numbers atm.

-Yeah, but the FE series has been on a decline and FE13 is the only one to break expectations.

-Agreed DmC is garbage, but DMC4 began a downward trend and expectations for DmC were morbidly low. So low, it was actually considered a success.

Those are examples, just go look at sales numbers for any franchise you can think of. Most will show a downward curve. The industry is slowly dying, and it's much more competitive than it used to be.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Why do they keep using "Xeno" in all their damn titles? It's getting to be rather confusing.

No clue, but I presume it's again due to the spiritual successor thing I mentioned. Similar names I guess is one of the first priorities with these games, even if it's unrelated like Xenoblade. Granted not every game they've made is like that, for example Disaster: Day of Crisis, Baten Kaitos, and Soma Bringer.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I want Wreck-It Ralph to be in Smash. Maybe not as a playable character, but an Assist Trophy, or a stage based on Game Central Station.

 

[ChronoBound]

-was it? I always assumed it sold less than Melee

-Yeah, but they didn't outsell Gen 1 and 2, and if I'm not mistaken HG/SS, though I'm too lazy to look up numbers atm.

-Yeah, but the FE series has been on a decline and FE13 is the only one to break expectations.

The Wii had a much more massive install base than GameCube. The Wii sold over 90 million, while the GameCube sold 21 million. Just on that ground alone was Brawl guaranteed to sell more than Melee.

Black/White outsold Ruby/Sapphire and HeartGold/SoulSilver as well. Gen 1 and Gen 2 sold a lot because Pokemon was a still a cultural phenomenon at the time.

FE13 outselling most other FE games was not due to expectations being set low. FE9/FE10 were the nadir of the series in terms of sales (the only two of three games in the FE series sell below 200K in Japan). By comparison, FE13 sold more than both of those games combined.

 

[Capain Puff]

I want some new characters, but I'm kind of neutral what characters they should be. The only one I really want is Little Mac.

I don't want Mewtwo back, I like Lucario more and I think Mewtwo won't make it, too.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't want Mewtwo back, I like Lucario more and I think Mewtwo won't make it, too.

What if both made it in?

 

[Second Power]

I want some new characters, but I'm kind of neutral what characters they should be. The only one I really want is Little Mac.

I don't want Mewtwo back, I like Lucario more and I think Mewtwo won't make it, too.

You're shooting yourself in the foot, buddy. Mewtwo is very well loved, everywhere. But, you know what? I'll bite. Why don't you think Mewtwo is likely?

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Mewtwo is the only character I do see returning but don't want it because I don't want an oversaturation of Gen 1.

That is why the Gen 2 Remakes and Gen 5 should be in the game.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I don't want Mewtwo to come back ether, not because he isn't likely but because he was incredibly crappy with such a convoluted assortment of attributes. Ether overhaul Mewtwo to not suck, or don't even bother at for all I care.

 

[peeup]

I dont want an overhaul of Mewtwo, just make him a little bit... better. He had a pretty distinct style to him, I don't want that to be diminished. To prevent an oversaturation of Gen I, I really think just changing Red to a Gen VI trainer with the 3 starters (my guess is Froakie will be 3rd stage, Chespin will be 2nd stage, and Fennekin will be 1st).

That's equal or less Gen I "saturation" as in Brawl, depending on how you look at it.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I dont want an overhaul of Mewtwo, just make him a little bit... better. He had a pretty distinct style to him, I don't want that to be diminished. To prevent an oversaturation of Gen I, I really think just changing Red to a Gen VI trainer with the 3 starters (my guess is Froakie will be 3rd stage, Chespin will be 2nd stage, and Fennekin will be 1st).

That's equal or less Gen I "saturation" as in Brawl, depending on how you look at it.

That would only be one character that is of a different gen though.

I would at least change the trainer and add a Pokemon from another gen as well. Really though the only Gen 1 stuff should be Pikachu and Jigglypuff.

 

[peeup]

That would only be one character that is of a different gen though.

I would at least change the trainer and add a Pokemon from another gen as well. Really though the only Gen 1 stuff should be Pikachu and Jigglypuff.

That's how it is now tho. The only non-gen I is Lucario. If we get Mewtwo and a Gen VI trainer, then technically there will be 3 playable Gen VI pokemon. That's more diversity than Brawl.

 

[FlareHabanero]

We don't play as generations, we play as characters.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

That's how it is now tho. The only non-gen I is Lucario. If we get Mewtwo and a Gen VI trainer, then technically there will be 3 playable Gen VI pokemon. That's more diversity than Brawl.

I see what you are getting at, although I personally would at least have a Gen 2 or Gen 5 as well.

 

[Capain Puff]

You're shooting yourself in the foot, buddy. Mewtwo is very well loved, everywhere. But, you know what? I'll bite. Why don't you think Mewtwo is likely?

Because Gen 1 is already overrepped with Pikachu, Jigglypuff and Red. Of those I can only see Red getting replaced by some newer trainer. There are also Gen 5 and 6, they may have a chance of getting a rep. And Mewtwo completely blew it in Melee. I wouldn't care if he came back, but rather not.

 

[peeup]

We don't play as generations, we play as characters.

Nice, fruity language that doesn't really say much. Obviously we play as characters and not generations. But I think it's dumb to assume that generations/relevance play no roll in Sakurai's process of determining who gets in and who doesn't. I'm not saying it plays a big roll, or even that it plays a roll at all. But it might. So saying "We don't play as generations, we play as characters" really says nothing at all.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What is this bull**** now? Mewtwo MUST return. Buffing him would be an enourmous bonus yeah, but I want him back badly.

As of now he's even higher ranked than the likes of Yoshi, Bowser and Ness. If he'd be exaclty the same in Brawl, I think he'd triumph them even now. :/

Sheik also sucks majorly in Brawl now. And still y'all are SO hardpressed to have her back... I don't see the logic AT ALL.

 

[Banjodorf]

@Jigglypuff^^

I don't think Sakurai thinks that way.


We might, but *we* are not him.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

We don't play as generations, we play as characters.

QFT. Sakurai has clearly never cared about equal representation for each generation, and that's because it really doesn't matter.

 

[lobotheduck21]

We don't play as generations, we play as characters.

On the money,

The most iconic Pokemon are from gen 1, so why replace iconiccy with a flavor of the month

 

[Diddy Kong]

We play as characters not generations means: Mewtwo should return.

Accept that. Or keep denying it.

 

[peeup]

We play as characters not generations means: Mewtwo should return.

Accept that. Or keep denying it.

This.

10truths.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Besides, Puff in Brawl probably sucks even more than Mewtwo did in Melee.

I am kinda declaring war on the bull**** right now.

 

[peeup]

Puff in Brawl is definitely worse than Mewtwo in Melee. Puff is bottom tier, Mewtwo is like second to bottom or whatever. Plus a player like Taj made Mewtwo cool again. AFAIK, nobody can do that with Brawl Jiggz.

But I digress. Mewtwo4Sm4sh.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

How about this?

The Pokemon Roster would be...

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer (with Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard)
Lucario
Mewtwo

and have other possible characters as DLC.

Gen 1 is the most beloved and most iconic. How do you think we got Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard in the first place? It wasn't because of FRLG. That game was old by the time Brawl came out.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nah, Mewtwo is Low Tier now. Not Bottom Tier at all. That's what he used to be. Then, people started kicking *** with him. Aka: Taj happened.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

-Pikachu
-Joggylpuff
-Ethan w/ Chikorita, Quilava, & Feraligatr
-Zoroark
-6th Gen

 

[lobotheduck21]

How about this?

The Pokemon Roster would be...

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer (with Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard)
Lucario
Mewtwo

and have other possible characters as DLC.

Gen 1 is the most beloved and most iconic. How do you think we got Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard in the first place? It wasn't because of FRLG. That game was old by the time Brawl came out.

This is the win

Honestly the only poke I want cut is jiggs and that's only for eevee or mew (so really unlikely)

 

[kikaru]

How about this?

The Pokemon Roster would be...

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer (with Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard)
Lucario
Mewtwo

and have other possible characters as DLC.

Gen 1 is the most beloved and most iconic. How do you think we got Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard in the first place? It wasn't because of FRLG. That game was old by the time Brawl came out.

If Pokemon received 5 slots then I would most definitely agree with this.

 

[Capain Puff]

Besides, Puff in Brawl probably sucks even more than Mewtwo did in Melee.

I am kinda declaring war on the bull**** right now.

That's true, but it was a great character in Melee. It has appeared in all 3 games now and it's one of the most popular Pokemon in Japan (not saying Mewtwo isn't). In the West few people will care if Purin was cut, but Japan thinks otherwise.

 

[Banjodorf]

That's true, but it was a great character in Melee. It has appeared in all 3 games now and it's one of the most popular Pokemon in Japan (not saying Mewtwo isn't). In the West few people will care if Purin was cut, but Japan thinks otherwise.

As I understand it, Jigg's popularity has definitely waned in the past few years.

 

[Capain Puff]

-Pikachu
-Joggylpuff
-Ethan w/ Chikorita, Quilava, & Feraligatr
-Zoroark
-6th Gen

I agree with this, but I'd rather see Lucario than Zoroark.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I agree with this, but I'd rather see Lucario than Zoroark.

Maybe Lucario instead of the 6th Gen?

Only because it could be too late for 6th Gen.