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Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

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lobotheduck21

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I'm Surprised that Nintendo hasn't made a Mario football game, seeing as how the Super Bowl is the most watched television program in history (after that it's the mash finale)

:phone:
 

Robert of Normandy

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I'm Surprised that Nintendo hasn't made a Mario football game, seeing as how the Super Bowl is the most watched television program in history (after that it's the mash finale)
As I understand, American Football isn't popular in Japan, or most of the world outside 'Muricuh for that matter.
 

Oasis_S

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As I understand, American Football isn't popular in Japan, or most of the world outside 'Muricuh for that matter.
Even so, you'd think they'd make a lot of money with it even if it was a US-only game. Probably why they wanted an American developer to work on it.
 

lobotheduck21

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Even so, you'd think they'd make a lot of money with it even if it was a US-only game. Probably why they wanted an American developer to work on it.
Actually, Nintendo had retro change to a nfl game because they wanted retro to work on "mature" games

:phone:
 

Diddy Kong

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You know, I would want a standalone Charizard if Red gets cut. :charizard:

Mario American Football huh? How about a big fat no?

Play Mario Strikers damnit.
 
D

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I never said that that wasn't the reason Dr.Mario got in though, was just stating that they shouldn't do it that way.

Didn't play Xenoblade, so I wouldn't know. Would just be pissed if Shulk would make it and not Isaac. It's kind of a kick in the nuts for Golden Sun fans.
Not necessarily. GS is dead and Xenoblade is more recent and more successful than the GS franchise. The circumstances for characters now are different now too. There is more room for niche characters to get in. Isaac kinda missed his boat and with hype surrounding "X" Shulk's chances are looking very good.

:phone:
 

FlareHabanero

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Not necessarily. GS is dead and Xenoblade is more recent and more successful than the GS franchise. The circumstances for characters now are different now too. There is more room for niche characters to get in. Isaac kinda missed his boat and with hype surrounding "X" Shulk's chances are looking very good.

:phone:
Technically speaking Golden Sun is not dead. The most recent game in the series left off with a cliffhanger, so it still has leg room to expand further. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a motivation to expand on it at the moment. Though unlike how some people think here, that is not really a huge loss considering Golden Sun is very uninteresting.

Besides, Golden Sun is only partially owned by Nintendo. Going by theories, characters from second party franchises won't be included on the roster to avoid any form of copyright complications.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Besides, Golden Sun is only partially owned by Nintendo. Going by theories, characters from second party franchises won't be included on the roster to avoid any form of copyright complications.
So....

Pokemon, Kirby and Fire Emblem?
 

FlareHabanero

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So....

Pokemon, Kirby and Fire Emblem?
Kirby and Fire Emblem are wholly owned by Nintendo.

Pokemon is the only exception the rule, but that exception is probably made because Pokemon is a huge cash cow to begin with. Just for clarification, Nintendo technically controls 66% of the franchise, while the other 33% belongs to Game Freak.
 
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Technically speaking Golden Sun is not dead. The most recent game in the series left off with a cliffhanger, so it still has leg room to expand further. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a motivation to expand on it at the moment. Though unlike how some people think here, that is not really a huge loss considering Golden Sun is very uninteresting.

Besides, Golden Sun is only partially owned by Nintendo. Going by theories, characters from second party franchises won't be included on the roster to avoid any form of copyright complications.
The companies work for Nintendo, so Nintendo really just needs to go and ask them. It is not like they would decline, it advertises their games.

Thus more franchises can be repped.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Kirby and Fire Emblem are wholly owned by Nintendo.

Pokemon is the only exception the rule, but that exception is probably made because Pokemon is a huge cash cow to begin with. Just for clarification, Nintendo technically controls 66% of the franchise, while the other 33% belongs to Game Freak.
I thought Kirby was owned by HAL and Fire Emblem was owned by Intelligent Systems.


And if the individual companies said yes to having assist trophies of their characters in Brawl, I see no reason why they wouldn't want a playable representative.
 

Swamp Sensei

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The Michiah one was based on her Awakening redesign....

:(
 

Diddy Kong

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Ok so wih those Mega Man recolors...

Wouldn't that make alternative colors for Mega Man basically totally useless?
 

FlareHabanero

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I thought Kirby was owned by HAL and Fire Emblem was owned by Intelligent Systems.
Which in turn are completely owned by Nintendo.

-Nintendo Entertainment Analysis and Development
-Nintendo Network Service Developmen
-Nintendo Software Design & Development
-Nintendo Software Planning & Development
-Nintendo Software Technology
-Nintendo Technology Development
-1-UP Studio
-Creatures Inc.
-HAL Laboratory
-Intelligent Systems
-Monolith Soft
-Nd Cube
-Mobiclip
-Retro Studios
-Sora Ltd

Every company you see listed above wholly belongs to Nintendo.
 

Robert of Normandy

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Besides, Golden Sun is only partially owned by Nintendo. Going by theories, characters from second party franchises won't be included on the roster to avoid any form of copyright complications.
That theory is bullsh*t. Second-party characters were included in brawl as assist trophies. If Second Party companies are so difficult to work with, why wouldn't they demmand their characters to be playable?
 
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Ok so wih those Mega Man recolors...

Wouldn't that make alternative colors for Mega Man basically totally useless?
I thought of it like this, these would be what the normal Mega-Man (original blue color) would look like with these powers.

If we change Mega-Man's color when playing, that color would have a tint over these costumes.

Example: Lets say we have picked Red Mega-Man and got Micaiah's power. That costume would still be there but have a red tint over it.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Which in turn are completely owned by Nintendo.

-Nintendo Entertainment Analysis and Development
-Nintendo Network Service Developmen
-Nintendo Software Design & Development
-Nintendo Software Planning & Development
-Nintendo Software Technology
-Nintendo Technology Development
-1-UP Studio
-Creatures Inc.
-HAL Laboratory
-Intelligent Systems
-Monolith Soft
-Nd Cube
-Mobiclip
-Retro Studios
-Sora Ltd

Every company you see listed above wholly belongs to Nintendo.
Interesting. Didn't know that.

Where does Next Level Games stand?
 

FlareHabanero

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That theory is bullsh*t. Second-party characters were included in brawl as assist trophies. If Second Party companies are so difficult to work with, why wouldn't they demmand their characters to be playable?
Because it just simply easier to go for the stuff that is completely owned then ones that are partially owned. It's like the difference between owning a toy and borrowing a toy, you don't need permission and there isn't restrictions for the former. This is further supported by Animal Crossing and Pikmin being apparently the only things after 2000 to have a character worthy on the roster and second party content being scarce in general.

Which reminds me, I have a theory that the "missing link" in the music files in Brawl might actually be Magical Starsign/Magical Vacation.
 

Robert of Normandy

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Because it just simply easier to go for the stuff that is completely owned then ones that are partially owned. It's like the difference between owning a toy and borrowing a toy, you don't need permission for the former. This is further supported by Animal Crossing and Pikmin being apparently the only things after 2000 to have a character worthy on the roster and second party content being scarce in general.
The fact is, second party content and characters still appeared in the form of Assist Trophies. If second-parties were as difficult to work with as you imply, Saki/Isaac/etc. would not have been in the game AT ALL.
 

PSIguy89

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As someone who knows nothing about Xenoblade is it a 2nd party title? I'm assuming its owned by Nintendo but again to be honest I have no idea

:phone:
 
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The fact is, second party content and characters still appeared in the form of Assist Trophies. If second-parties were as difficult to work with as you imply, Saki/Isaac/etc. would not have been in the game AT ALL.
Reason why now Isa and Matthew/Adult Isaac will be in the game :bee:
 

Frostwraith

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Which in turn are completely owned by Nintendo.

-Nintendo Entertainment Analysis and Development
-Nintendo Network Service Developmen
-Nintendo Software Design & Development
-Nintendo Software Planning & Development
-Nintendo Software Technology
-Nintendo Technology Development
-1-UP Studio
-Creatures Inc.
-HAL Laboratory
-Intelligent Systems
-Monolith Soft
-Nd Cube
-Mobiclip
-Retro Studios
-Sora Ltd

Every company you see listed above wholly belongs to Nintendo.
As someone who knows nothing about Xenoblade is it a 2nd party title? I'm assuming its owned by Nintendo but again to be honest I have no idea

:phone:
Xenoblade was created and developed by Monolith Soft. As said by Habanero (quoted), Monolith is wholly owned by Nintendo, therefore Xenoblade is 100% Nintendo just like Fire Emblem or Kirby.
 

FlareHabanero

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As someone who knows nothing about Xenoblade is it a 2nd party title? I'm assuming its owned by Nintendo but again to be honest I have no idea
Monolith is fully owned by Nintendo as of 2007, so technically Xenoblade is a 1st party game.

shinpichu said:
The fact is, second party content and characters still appeared in the form of Assist Trophies. If second-parties were as difficult to work with as you imply, Saki/Isaac/etc. would not have been in the game AT ALL.
In case you haven't noticed, second party content is scarce despite the inclusion. This especially blunt with Golden Sun, which despite being more successful then some of Nintendo's other franchises like Pikmin, got shafted by a lot. A trophy of Issac, an assist trophy of Issac, and a song randomly on Norfair, and that's literally it. Even Magical Starsign got more content then that.

Going by your logic, it should of been pretty simple to include a lot more content, but clearly that's not the case.
 
D

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The companies work for Nintendo, so Nintendo really just needs to go and ask them. It is not like they would decline, it advertises their games.

Thus more franchises can be repped.
That's not how corporations and business works. There is actually a ton of legal issues that need to be sorted out before 2nd party characters are added. You're still borrowing IP, even if they work for you, you simply can't go up to them and say, "hey, we're taking your **** since you work for us, you cool with that?"

Technically speaking Golden Sun is not dead. The most recent game in the series left off with a cliffhanger, so it still has leg room to expand further. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a motivation to expand on it at the moment. Though unlike how some people think here, that is not really a huge loss considering Golden Sun is very uninteresting.

Besides, Golden Sun is only partially owned by Nintendo. Going by theories, characters from second party franchises won't be included on the roster to avoid any form of copyright complications.
Yeah, I guess. Thing is, the franchise has little to no light left in it, and honestly it isn't THAT good nor well known. Meanwhile Xenoblade is hailed as the best RPG of this generation in several circles (whether or not I agree with that statement is something else), and is generally more well known than GS was back then among gamers.

GS was VERY niche back in the day, the internet was still relatively less connected, and news got around much slower. Only popular games saw the light of day for the most part, as word of mouth was what carried info, and review sites like IGN and Gamespot was still largely trustworthy.

Nowadays things are much different. The internet is much more connected, review sites can't be trusted and word of mouth dominates. Games find it much more easy to get advertised as viral news and information travel across the net in mere minutes. Perhaps if Xenoblade was born in the same era of GS it would have remained as niche and undiscovered as GS, but the thing is Xenoblade was born in JUST the right time for it to launch as a very well know RPG on the Wii. I would honestly put it on the same scale as Bayonetta in terms of notoriety.
 

Gamingboy

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The problem with 2nd party games to me is that it's so much a gray area as far as rights.

Like, Pokemon is more owned by Nintendo than it is by Game Freak. If Game Freak were to leave the Nintendo stable (unlikely), Pokemon would almost certainly remain with Nintendo. So it's almost like you could consider Pokemon a "1.5 Party" or something. Similarly, the old DKC games that were made by Rareware were very clearly Nintendo's property, as can be seen by the fact that all of the characters remain with Nintendo.

But compare that to, like Banjo-Kazooie. It was technically a 2nd party and such, but it was more Rareware's baby than it was Nintendo's, and it left with Rare. So, I dunno, B-K was more of a "2.5 Party" or something...
 

ChronoBound

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Golden Sun on the GBA was not niche. It sold over 700K in North America alone, and around 350K in Japan. Selling over a million copies just from those two territories is not a niche title.
 

Robert of Normandy

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In case you haven't noticed, second party content is scarce despite the inclusion. This especially blunt with Golden Sun, which despite being more successful then some of Nintendo's other franchises like Pikmin, got shafted by a lot. A trophy of Issac, an assist trophy of Issac, and a song randomly on Norfair, and that's literally it. Even Magical Starsign got more content then that.
It could just be that, at the time, Sakurai didn't feel that there were many second-party series worthy of getting a lot of content. And honestly, I don't blame him: Unlike right now, there were still a number of characters that were almost universally considered deserving that had yet to make it into Smash.
 
D

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Monolith is fully owned by Nintendo as of 2007, so technically Xenoblade is a 1st party game.
Speaking of Monolith, KOS-MOS is owned my them or by Namco? If Monolith is owned by Ninty and Monolith made KOS-MOS, shouldn't KOS-MOS be owned by Nintendo now? Then again, we've seen Namco use KOS-MOS rather freely so she might just be owned by them after all. I guess Namco bought the rights to the character before the buy out? What's the story on that deal?

Golden Sun on the GBA was not niche. It sold over 700K in North America alone, and around 350K in Japan. Selling over a million copies just from those two territories is not a niche title.
I dunno man, it struck me as niche at the time. I heard of it because of a friend and never really bothered to try it. The only time I ever heard GS get brought up was usually during Brawl speculation threads. It never seemed to create much of a buzz imo, and no one I knew despite one friend ever really even heard of it.

Maybe it's because I personally was more of a plebian in regards to taste back in the day and only played AAA titles. But also, I think around 1mil copies is rather low for a game, during an era where news didn't get around as much as they do now.
 

ChronoBound

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Maybe it's because I personally was more of a plebian in regards to taste back in the day and only played AAA titles. But also, I think around 1mil copies is rather low for a game, during an era where news didn't get around as much as they do now.
1 million copies was just for North America + Japan. It sold even more with European sales included.

Xenoblade did not even break 200K in Japan, and it was sold at only one retailer in North America (Gamestop).

The Golden Sun GBA games both sold much more than Xenoblade. Xenoblade just received high accolades. The only GS game that sold poorly was Dark Dawn.
 
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1 million copies was just for North America + Japan. It sold even more with European sales included.

Xenoblade did not even break 200K in Japan, and it was sold at only one retailer in North America (Gamestop).

The Golden Sun GBA games both sold much more than Xenoblade. Xenoblade just received high accolades. The only GS game that sold poorly was Dark Dawn.
And this is the one to give us the character this time :awesome:
 

FlareHabanero

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Speaking of Monolith, KOS-MOS is owned my them or by Namco? If Monolith is owned by Ninty and Monolith made KOS-MOS, shouldn't KOS-MOS be owned by Nintendo now? Then again, we've seen Namco use KOS-MOS rather freely so she might just be owned by them after all. I guess Namco bought the rights to the character before the buy out? What's the story on that deal?
Xenosaga as a whole belongs to Namco, so there for KOS-MOS still belongs to Namco.

Monolith Soft is one of those companies that had to resort to making spiritual successors due to copyright complications from jumping between different companies. First it was Xenogears by Square, then it was Xenosaga by Namco, and finally Xenoblade by Nintendo. However, Xenoblade is related to Xenogears and Xenosaga in name only.
 
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